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MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair??

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  MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? XYLOPHONE <rhubarbe0@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-02 09:59 -0800
    Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? "Percival P. Cassidy" <Nobody@NotMyISP.net> - 2011-12-02 13:43 -0500
      Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? Krypsis <krypsis@optusnet.com.au> - 2011-12-03 06:27 +1100
    Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2011-12-03 00:59 +0000
      Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? "Salam" <salem@dogfucker.com> - 2011-12-03 13:58 +1100
      Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? XYLOPHONE <rhubarbe0@yahoo.com> - 2011-12-02 22:44 -0800
        Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2011-12-03 22:45 +0000
          Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-12-04 13:08 +1100
        Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> - 2011-12-04 09:55 +1100
          Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? Winniethepooh@100acrewoods.org (GMAN) - 2011-12-04 19:09 +0000
        Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com> - 2011-12-05 09:25 -0800
          Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2011-12-05 19:15 +0000
          Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2011-12-07 04:13 +1100
    Re: MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair?? Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> - 2011-12-09 07:49 +1100

#10 — MFM Miniscribe HDD does not spin, how to repair??

Hello,
I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
problem is with the spindle motor itself.
Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power off
and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.

What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.

Thanks for any information, any hint, or any similar situation
experienced.

Luc.

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#11

On 12/02/11 12:59 pm, XYLOPHONE wrote:

> I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
> The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
> disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
> working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
> problem is with the spindle motor itself.
> Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
> spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power off
> and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
>
> What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
> correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
> is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.

"Vintage"!? Wasn't it on one of those drives that Noah kept track of all 
the animals? :-)

Have you tried giving the drive a sharp twist about the axis of the spindle?

Perce

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#12

On 3/12/2011 5:43 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
> On 12/02/11 12:59 pm, XYLOPHONE wrote:
>
>> I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
>> The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
>> disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
>> working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
>> problem is with the spindle motor itself.
>> Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
>> spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power off
>> and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
>>
>> What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
>> correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
>> is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.
>
> "Vintage"!? Wasn't it on one of those drives that Noah kept track of all
> the animals? :-)
>
> Have you tried giving the drive a sharp twist about the axis of the
> spindle?
>
> Perce

That should work! Sounds like the OP has what is termed a "stiction 
fault". This is caused by the heads being stuck to the platter. The 
sharp twist, often with power applied, is enough to break the "stiction" 
and allow the heads to float free. Note that, if power is applied when 
doing it, there is a risk of damage so treat the device with kids gloves 
if you need to do it this way.

Haven't seen this fault in many a long year. No doubt this is due to off 
platter head parking mechanisms on all drives nowadays.

-- 

Krypsis

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#13

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage XYLOPHONE <rhubarbe0@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
> The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
> disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
> working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
> problem is with the spindle motor itself.
> Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
> spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power off
> and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.

> What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
> correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
> is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.

> Thanks for any information, any hint, or any similar situation
> experienced.

> Luc.

First, if the data has any real worth, STOP MESSING AROUND and
get help from a professional data recovery service. Chances are you
will just make matters worse.

As you say the drive spins 1/4 revolution, so it cannot be stiction.

Sounds like not all coils in the spindle motor get powered. As
you tried the PCB swap, this would not be a problem with the motor 
driver amplifiers. One possibility is a contact problem.
Another one is a possibly broken winding in the motor itself.
Both can be debugged with a multi-tester by mesuring winding
resistances. (If you have no clue what I am talking about, then
you are not qualified to look into this, sorry.)

The contact problem is typically easy to fix temporarily 
when located. The broken winding is usually unfixable.

Arno
-- 
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: arno@wagner.name
GnuPG:  ID: 1E25338F  FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C  0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

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#14

Arno wrote:
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage XYLOPHONE <rhubarbe0@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
>> The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
>> disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
>> working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
>> problem is with the spindle motor itself.
>> Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
>> spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power
>> off and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
>
>> What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
>> correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
>> is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.
>
>> Thanks for any information, any hint, or any similar situation
>> experienced.
>
>> Luc.
>
> First, if the data has any real worth, STOP MESSING AROUND and
> get help from a professional data recovery service. Chances are you
> will just make matters worse.

Unlikely if the only problem is that it wont spin up but is free to rotate by hand.

> As you say the drive spins 1/4 revolution, so it cannot be stiction.
>
> Sounds like not all coils in the spindle motor get powered. As
> you tried the PCB swap, this would not be a problem with the motor
> driver amplifiers. One possibility is a contact problem.
> Another one is a possibly broken winding in the motor itself.
> Both can be debugged with a multi-tester by mesuring winding
> resistances. (If you have no clue what I am talking about, then
> you are not qualified to look into this, sorry.)
>
> The contact problem is typically easy to fix temporarily
> when located. The broken winding is usually unfixable.
>
> Arno 

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#15

On 2 déc, 19:59, Arno <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage XYLOPHONE <rhubar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
> > The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
> > disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
> > working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
> > problem is with the spindle motor itself.
> > Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
> > spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power off
> > and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
> > What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
> > correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
> > is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.
> > Thanks for any information, any hint, or any similar situation
> > experienced.
> > Luc.
>
> First, if the data has any real worth, STOP MESSING AROUND and
> get help from a professional data recovery service. Chances are you
> will just make matters worse.
>
> As you say the drive spins 1/4 revolution, so it cannot be stiction.
>
> Sounds like not all coils in the spindle motor get powered. As
> you tried the PCB swap, this would not be a problem with the motor
> driver amplifiers. One possibility is a contact problem.
> Another one is a possibly broken winding in the motor itself.
> Both can be debugged with a multi-tester by mesuring winding
> resistances. (If you have no clue what I am talking about, then
> you are not qualified to look into this, sorry.)
>
> The contact problem is typically easy to fix temporarily
> when located. The broken winding is usually unfixable.
>
> Arno
> --
> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: a...@wagner.name
> GnuPG:  ID: 1E25338F  FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C  0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> ----
> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

Thanks Arno, I'll carefully try to see the contacts.

However, I forgot to mention that, when I first removed the PCB,
everything underneath was covered with tiny DARK BLACK dust, just like
black laser printer toner, or maybe even smaller grain powder. I
gently wiped all that black dust away. When I removed the PCB from the
working HDD, there was a little bit of that black dust, but far less
than on the non-spinning drive.

Does this dust make a click to anyone?

Thanks again...

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#16

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage XYLOPHONE <rhubarbe0@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2 déc, 19:59, Arno <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage XYLOPHONE <rhubar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
>> > The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
>> > disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
>> > working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
>> > problem is with the spindle motor itself.
>> > Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
>> > spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power off
>> > and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
>> > What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
>> > correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
>> > is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.
>> > Thanks for any information, any hint, or any similar situation
>> > experienced.
>> > Luc.
>>
>> First, if the data has any real worth, STOP MESSING AROUND and
>> get help from a professional data recovery service. Chances are you
>> will just make matters worse.
>>
>> As you say the drive spins 1/4 revolution, so it cannot be stiction.
>>
>> Sounds like not all coils in the spindle motor get powered. As
>> you tried the PCB swap, this would not be a problem with the motor
>> driver amplifiers. One possibility is a contact problem.
>> Another one is a possibly broken winding in the motor itself.
>> Both can be debugged with a multi-tester by mesuring winding
>> resistances. (If you have no clue what I am talking about, then
>> you are not qualified to look into this, sorry.)
>>
>> The contact problem is typically easy to fix temporarily
>> when located. The broken winding is usually unfixable.
>>
>> Arno
>> --
>> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: a...@wagner.name
>> GnuPG:  ID: 1E25338F  FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C  0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
>> ----
>> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans
> 
> Thanks Arno, I'll carefully try to see the contacts.
> 
> However, I forgot to mention that, when I first removed the PCB,
> everything underneath was covered with tiny DARK BLACK dust, just like
> black laser printer toner, or maybe even smaller grain powder. I
> gently wiped all that black dust away. When I removed the PCB from the
> working HDD, there was a little bit of that black dust, but far less
> than on the non-spinning drive.
> 
> Does this dust make a click to anyone?
> 
> Thanks again...

Disintegrated foam perhaps? I seem to remember dismantling a drive
with a thin piece of foam between the pc board and the drive. Might
have been to dampen vibration.

	Jerry

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#18

Jerry Peters wrote
> XYLOPHONE <rhubarbe0@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Arno <m...@privacy.net> wrote
>>> XYLOPHONE <rhubar...@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>> I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running
>>>> again. The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power
>>>> it up. I disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB
>>>> from a working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so
>>>> proving the problem is with the spindle motor itself.
>>>> Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
>>>> spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power
>>>> off and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
>>>> What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
>>>> correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This
>>>> drive is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.
>>>> Thanks for any information, any hint, or any similar situation
>>>> experienced.

>>> First, if the data has any real worth, STOP MESSING AROUND and
>>> get help from a professional data recovery service. Chances are you
>>> will just make matters worse.

>>> As you say the drive spins 1/4 revolution, so it cannot be stiction.

>>> Sounds like not all coils in the spindle motor get powered. As
>>> you tried the PCB swap, this would not be a problem with the
>>> motor driver amplifiers. One possibility is a contact problem.
>>> Another one is a possibly broken winding in the motor itself.
>>> Both can be debugged with a multi-tester by mesuring winding
>>> resistances. (If you have no clue what I am talking about, then
>>> you are not qualified to look into this, sorry.)

>>> The contact problem is typically easy to fix temporarily
>>> when located. The broken winding is usually unfixable.

>> Thanks Arno, I'll carefully try to see the contacts.

>> However, I forgot to mention that, when I first removed the PCB,
>> everything underneath was covered with tiny DARK BLACK dust, just
>> like black laser printer toner, or maybe even smaller grain powder. I
>> gently wiped all that black dust away. When I removed the PCB from
>> the working HDD, there was a little bit of that black dust, but far
>> less than on the non-spinning drive.

>> Does this dust make a click to anyone?

>> Thanks again...

> Disintegrated foam perhaps?

I've never seen any foam deteriorate as comprehensively as that.

> I seem to remember dismantling a drive with a thin
> piece of foam between the pc board and the drive.

Yes, some Seagates did have that at one time.

> Might have been to dampen vibration.

Dont believe it was for that.

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#17

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 22:44:40 -0800 (PST), XYLOPHONE
<rhubarbe0@yahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>However, I forgot to mention that, when I first removed the PCB,
>everything underneath was covered with tiny DARK BLACK dust, just like
>black laser printer toner, or maybe even smaller grain powder. I
>gently wiped all that black dust away. When I removed the PCB from the
>working HDD, there was a little bit of that black dust, but far less
>than on the non-spinning drive.

Is there a sintered carbon brush that bleeds the static electricity
off the motor shaft?

- Franc Zabkar
-- 
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

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#19

In article <53ald7dijv4jolkm2qssl5qveq49p11q60@4ax.com>, fzabkar@iinternode.on.net wrote:
>On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 22:44:40 -0800 (PST), XYLOPHONE
><rhubarbe0@yahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>However, I forgot to mention that, when I first removed the PCB,
>>everything underneath was covered with tiny DARK BLACK dust, just like
>>black laser printer toner, or maybe even smaller grain powder. I
>>gently wiped all that black dust away. When I removed the PCB from the
>>working HDD, there was a little bit of that black dust, but far less
>>than on the non-spinning drive.
>
>Is there a sintered carbon brush that bleeds the static electricity
>off the motor shaft?
>
>- Franc Zabkar
I remember those from my Atari ST years. You occasionally would get them 
making god awefull sounds when they would wear down and some would suggest 
anything from sewing machine oil(3 in 1 oil), to using a dab of facial grease 
(Shrugs head???) to stop the squealing.

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#20

XYLOPHONE wrote:

>
> I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
> The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
> disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
> working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
> problem is with the spindle motor itself.
> Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
> spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power off
> and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
> What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
> correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
> is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.

Does the RedHill.net.au have any info?  HDDguru.com forums are
dominated by people who do HD repair and data recovery.

I would try unplugging the cables from that motor and the motor of a
working drive and compare the resistance readings of their coils.
However resistance measurements don't always tell everything about
coils, and for that you need to ring the coil:

          http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/k7205.pdf

          http://repairfaq.org/sam/flytest.htm

Is it possible to replace the motor without opening the drive?  I have
a feeling dust would be a problem if even if the motor can be removed
that way.

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#21

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc larry moe 'n curly <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com> wrote:


> XYLOPHONE wrote:

>>
>> I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
>> The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
>> disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
>> working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
>> problem is with the spindle motor itself.
>> Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
>> spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power off
>> and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
>> What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
>> correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
>> is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.

> Does the RedHill.net.au have any info?  HDDguru.com forums are
> dominated by people who do HD repair and data recovery.

> I would try unplugging the cables from that motor and the motor of a
> working drive and compare the resistance readings of their coils.
> However resistance measurements don't always tell everything about
> coils, and for that you need to ring the coil:

>          http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/k7205.pdf

>          http://repairfaq.org/sam/flytest.htm

> Is it possible to replace the motor without opening the drive?  I have
> a feeling dust would be a problem if even if the motor can be removed
> that way.

I think in this particular case, resistancw will be enough, as 
a HDD motor has at least 3 identical coils. However if the
resistance is very low, measuring it could be tricky. 

For reference: On a 12 year old Fujitsu 3.5" drive I still
have, the windings come in at 3 Ohm. That is within the usable
range of a nomal multitester, if some inaccuracy is
not an issue.

Arno
-- 
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: arno@wagner.name
GnuPG:  ID: 1E25338F  FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C  0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

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#22

larry moe 'n curly wrote
> XYLOPHONE wrote

>> I am trying to get my 20MB Miniscribe 3.5" hard drive running again.
>> The problem is that it doesn't spin up anymore when I power it up. I
>> disassembled the drive's PCB, and swapped it with the PCB from a
>> working drive, and the other HD works with both PCBs, so proving the
>> problem is with the spindle motor itself.
>> Looking closer at it, I notice that when I power it up, the platter
>> spins about 1/4 of a revolution, then stops forever, until I power
>> off and on again. Rotating it manually doesn't fix it.
>> What could be the problem? I feel that if I can get the HDD to
>> correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
>> is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.

> Does the RedHill.net.au have any info?  HDDguru.com forums are
> dominated by people who do HD repair and data recovery.

> I would try unplugging the cables from that motor and the motor of a
> working drive and compare the resistance readings of their coils.
> However resistance measurements don't always tell everything about
> coils, and for that you need to ring the coil:

>          http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/k7205.pdf

>          http://repairfaq.org/sam/flytest.htm

> Is it possible to replace the motor without opening the drive?

Nope.

> I have a feeling dust would be a problem if even if the motor can be removed that way.

Its academic because it cant be.

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#23

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 09:59:30 -0800 (PST), XYLOPHONE
<rhubarbe0@yahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>I feel that if I can get the HDD to
>correctly spin again, I should be able to access the data. This drive
>is vintage, so I'm doing all efforts to rescue it.

I still don't see any resistance measurements. Do you know how to use
a multimeter?

Does your drive have a tach sensor? Often there will be a Hall effect
sensor that provides RPM feedback to the controller. Modern drives
sense the back EMF in the non-driven winding, but earlier drives used
discrete sensors.

If you don't understand what to look for, then upload some photos to a
file sharing site so that someone can assist you.

- Franc Zabkar
-- 
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

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