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Groups > comp.sys.apple2 > #21480 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-08-27 07:40 -0500 |
| Last post | 2014-09-13 19:15 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 62 — 19 participants |
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Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-27 07:40 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2014-08-27 09:56 -0400
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download STYNX <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> - 2014-08-27 08:51 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2014-08-27 12:30 -0400
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-27 18:04 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download gids.rs@sasktel.net - 2014-09-01 07:33 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-01 13:33 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-27 23:33 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2014-08-28 08:00 -0400
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-28 07:54 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Anton Treuenfels" <teamtempest@yahoo.com> - 2014-08-27 10:00 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download olivier.zardini@itn-group.eu - 2014-08-27 09:16 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-27 17:50 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-28 00:00 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download olivier.zardini@itn-group.eu - 2014-08-28 04:33 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-28 08:52 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-08-28 15:30 +0000
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-28 11:20 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-28 12:42 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-28 13:51 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download STYNX <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> - 2014-08-28 12:35 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download Payton Byrd <plbyrd@gmail.com> - 2014-08-28 13:15 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-28 15:41 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-28 22:05 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download Payton Byrd <plbyrd@gmail.com> - 2014-08-29 05:19 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> - 2014-08-28 16:53 -0400
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-08-29 18:00 +0000
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download Vladimir Ivanov <none@none.tld> - 2014-08-29 22:15 +0300
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-27 19:29 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download STYNX <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> - 2014-08-27 10:25 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download osgeld <kevin@hackaday.com> - 2014-08-27 10:33 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-27 18:07 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download datawiz <rich.martin@gmail.com> - 2014-08-27 18:36 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-08-30 21:10 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-01 03:56 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-03 20:32 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> - 2014-09-04 04:45 +0000
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-04 13:55 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download Payton Byrd <plbyrd@gmail.com> - 2014-09-04 12:11 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-04 15:42 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-07 20:51 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download bpiltz@gmail.com - 2014-09-04 01:52 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-04 14:57 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> - 2014-09-04 20:34 +0000
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-04 16:09 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-05 19:23 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download osgeld@cheesefactory.us - 2014-09-04 18:30 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-05 04:11 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download STYNX <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> - 2014-09-05 06:03 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-05 16:06 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download Anthony Lawther <alawther@spammenot.mac.com> - 2014-09-06 10:26 +0000
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-06 20:11 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-05 19:53 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download osgeld@cheesefactory.us - 2014-09-06 11:16 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-06 20:27 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> - 2014-09-05 04:41 +0000
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-05 04:17 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download awanderin <awanderin@gmail.com> - 2014-09-05 11:46 -0600
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download Charlie <charlieDOTd@verEYEzon.net> - 2014-09-05 14:47 -0400
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-05 16:20 -0500
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download STYNX <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> - 2014-09-05 22:06 -0700
Re: Bmp2DHR General DHGR Demo available for download "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2014-09-13 19:15 -0500
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-07 20:51 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <luj23q$hq9$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21647 |
"Payton Byrd" <plbyrd@gmail.com> wrote: >Be careful! If you view the GPL code and then coincidentally have >something similar in your code, the GPL Nazi's could claim ownership of >your code. I am still working on my error diffusion dithering routines. The GIMP only has a couple (I have 8) and one of them they call Floyd Steinberg Reduced Color Bleed. Atkinson (Bill Atkinson) developed reduced color bleed as far as I know. I had previously said it was the worst... but after some thought I wondered what would happen if I put in a color bleed variable setting based on percentage. My latest development version now has either reduced or increased color bleed for all 8 of my error-diffusion dithers. The gnats cannot claim ownership of course since mine is different (and better, and based on what Atkinson did.) But the bonus is that by increasing Atkinson to 8/8 (full diffusion) instead of 6/8 (reduced color bleed) it works really decently for DHGR images. The added bonus is that with this new feature you can increase or reduce color bleed by a percentage of your liking which makes for a very powerful filter. The GIMP can go ahead and add this to their program at any time. It may benefit their users as welll as having more than one diffusion dither which is all they have. I should also add that Frankie Sierra's original dither with an increased color bleed is a really nice dither for DHGR now as well. This DHGR dithering of mine has a softer smoother appearance than the GIMP's dithering. Bill
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| From | bpiltz@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-04 01:52 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <adc47c3c-5aad-407b-879a-a65dda364f69@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #21643 |
On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 6:32:45 PM UTC-7, Bill Buckels wrote: > "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> wrote: > > >what I consider is the best DHGR converter on the planet is now available: > > > > http://www.appleoldies.ca/cc65/programs/dhgr/bmp2dhr.zip > > > > >Updated with dithering etc. > Bill, I'm very, very impressed with your DHGR converter, and feel your description as "the best on the planet" is apt. However, are you able to provide an MS-DOS compile of your binary executable? I recall that you used to do this with your other converters. It would be very much appreciated, as I still work in DOS a lot with ApplePC and other programs, so having a native DOS 16-bit (or 32-bit DGJPP) compile would be quite wonderful. Thanks.
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-04 14:57 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <luag7u$dev$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21645 |
<bpiltz@gmail.com> wrote: >Bill, I'm very, very impressed with your DHGR converter, and feel your >description as "the best on the planet" is apt. The gauntlet is down anyway... whether I am right or not can be an exercise for the reader. I was extemely impressed with Sheldon Simms' vision. But this implementation of mine made me smile... even the crappy Atkinson dithering made me smile... >However, are you able to provide an MS-DOS compile of your binary >executable? The Microsoft C 16-bit compile is the easy part. It already compiles just fine with only one warning, but it won't run properly. The lack of long names is not addressed by conditional compilation for MSDOS in the source code. This would amount to considerable reprogramming and making this code even messier than usual, and I also don't have the time to test for MS-DOS. >I recall that you used to do this with your other converters. It would be >very much appreciated, as I still work in DOS a lot with ApplePC and other >programs, so having a native DOS 16-bit (or 32-bit DGJPP) compile would be >quite wonderful. Thanks. I think a Linux and OSX compile would be wonderful too... If I got some action on that I might be inclined to refactor the code for MS-DOS. My position on MS-DOS utilitities is the same as my position on Aztec C65 programming; it's dead. My position on Linux and OSX (and Microsoft C) is that the source is there but I only provide Win32 MinGW binaries... Users of those other systems can build the binaries themselves. It goes back among other things to the Mac user on Apple II Enthusiasts that called me a Johnny Come-Lately and told me that Macophile Apps are more-better... duh! Ok then let it be so:) We all saw how well that worked in the past... but perhaps a jackboot in the arse is still the best approach. Leave the MS-DOS stuff with me though... perhaps my disdain for the lack of interest by Linux Users and the lack of everything by OSX users does not need to be extended backwards, just sideways:) My position as always is flexible... except on the BMP file format... it's dead dumb simple so it stays. Bill
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| From | Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-04 20:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.DEB.2.02.1409042033320.62744@localhost> |
| In reply to | #21648 |
On Thu, 4 Sep 2014, Bill Buckels wrote: > The Microsoft C 16-bit compile is the easy part. It already compiles just > fine with only one warning, but it won't run properly. The lack of long > names is not addressed by conditional compilation for MSDOS in the source > code. This would amount to considerable reprogramming and making this code > even messier than usual, and I also don't have the time to test for MS-DOS. Could just use djgpp and reject 16-bit. It's GCC, so more likely to Just Work. I never really used MSC, my 16-bit compiler of choice is Borland. -uso.
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-04 16:09 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <luake8$o2m$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21649 |
"Steve Nickolas" <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote: >Could just use djgpp and reject 16-bit. It's GCC, so more likely to Just >Work. That's probably true, but... I already sent him an MSC compiled 16-bit MS-DOS version... I could just as easily made it a BCC compile or whatever. Let him test it... it should be ok, but short and stupid output file names... then OSX and Linux Users who can't run a compiler can run b2d under DOSBox or DosEMU and convert BMP files to DHGR files. Under MS-DOS:) The thing to remember is to pack structures on 1 byte boundaries, and this wants to be a large memory model program with a big stack if it's 16 bit. >I never really used MSC, my 16-bit compiler of choice is Borland. I never made a choice. They are both about the same. I was an embedded systems partner with Borland for years too. It's all just C code. But I still don't see what's so wonderful about bgi drivers, and the Borland DataBase Engine, and TWindow Classes and DDVT replacement for Message Queues and all the rest of it. This is all just because some people wanted something besides Microsoft's stuff even though Microsoft handed-out their compilers for free very chance they got. Most programmers couldn't tell the difference. It's like my old argument that K&R C and ISO C should not be an issue... C is C. But for C++ the TrollTech Qt stuff was the best done ever, and the price was also the highest ever for business use:) So there is quality stuff out there too, but did most guys need it? Still, we should consider Qt for open source GUI stuff, since it's free for that. Fat chance of that happening though, if a guy can't even get some OSX and Linux binaries built without building them himself! Sheesh... If I ever get some of this other stuff out of the way, I may get a chnace to get Qt and MinGW together and write some kind of cross-platform shell for some of these graphics commands. Bill
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 19:23 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ludk5d$jdm$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21649 |
"Steve Nickolas" <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>I never really used MSC, my 16-bit compiler of choice is Borland.
I'll go you one older... this compiled in Turbo C after I removed the C++
comments and the long filenames... seems to work too:) But this is the last
MS-DOS compile of any of my utilities if I can help it. MS-DOS is squarely
dead...
http://www.appleoldies.ca/cc65/programs/dhgr/bmp2dhrMSDOS.zip
C:\AppleX\PROGRAMS\DHGR\bmp2dhr>make
MAKE Version 2.0 Copyright (c) 1987, 1988 Borland International
Available memory 578645 bytes
TCC -n..\ -ml -DMSDOS -DTURBOC b2d.c
Turbo C Version 2.01 Copyright (c) 1987, 1988 Borland International
b2d.c:
Turbo Link Version 2.0 Copyright (c) 1987, 1988 Borland International
Available memory 215554
del ..\b2d.obj
This has a Microsoft 16 bit C MAKEFILE and a Turbo C 2.01 MAKEFILE included.
In the future, re-use this for MS-DOS. If you must:)
Bill
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| From | osgeld@cheesefactory.us |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-04 18:30 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1f63d52b-c5d7-4dd0-b6f8-20336cf8d835@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #21648 |
> My position as always is flexible... except on the BMP file format... just wondering, with the 10 billion other convoluted special case (well windows uses this one and os2 uses this one and everyone else uses this BMP) why stick with windows MS paint bmp files that windows 7 and 8 dont even fully support on previous converters the only way I could get it to work was firing up paint shop pro 6 (from 1998) open an already working example, paste the image into that example and re-save it making sure my options were set correctly for MS windows version of bmp (and the colors would scramble anyway)
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 04:11 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <lubuni$dem$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21653 |
<osgeld@cheesefactory.us> wrote: >on previous converters the only way I could get it to work was firing up >paint shop pro 6 (from 1998) open an already working example, paste the >image into that example and re-save it making sure my options were set >correctly for MS windows version of bmp (and the colors would scramble >anyway) Try using this one... all previous DHGR converters were crap. Read my code comments. Bill
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| From | STYNX <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 06:03 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e1d2101b-f4af-4acb-87c2-5a9271c583da@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #21656 |
On Friday, September 5, 2014 11:11:14 AM UTC+2, Bill Buckels wrote: > Try using this one... all previous DHGR converters were crap. Read my code comments. > > Bill Mostly correct... you could archive a similar result as yours by a lot of handwork ;-) I am most impressed by the possibilities of your converter. I have converted some images and am simply amazed by the quality you can get out of some of them. Not every picture is suited for the conversion though. Now you only have to make 'full motion video' at 1mhz and you will have your place in Apple II history. :-P -Jonas
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 16:06 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <lud8lb$rj4$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21658 |
"STYNX" <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> wrote: > Bill Buckels wrote: >> all previous DHGR converters were crap.. Hi Jonas, I mean all of them, not just my MS-DOS converters that kevin was complaining about. You found the bug in my old BMP routines and I fixed it for SimpliFly... Together we suffered until I added a simple seek past this other crap that some BMP creaters insert in their files. That bug wasn't fixed in the stuff I wrote for MS-DOS, some of it years ago. It wasn't even a bug back when this stuff was first written. The reason I work with BMPs is because they are simple. People should be thankful that I don't work with my own PHA format or my friend John Bridges' Pictor Paint format, or I may be tempted to insist on it. I think that's a fair deal and at least I am working with something that can be created outside the GIMP which is perfectly capable of working with BMP's. My latest coneverters are compatible with the GIMP 2.8 and Windows 7 BMP's so anyone that says otherwise can get stuffed! I didn't hear about any problems with my old converters. Common sense would have been to report a problem instead of sitting on it for a couple of years... then announcing it when something truly wonderful actually worked. >Mostly correct... you could archive a similar result as yours by a lot of >handwork ;-) I think the GIMP's dithering is coarse and too busy and dark, and not well suited to the DHGR display. So perhaps ImageMagick can do better, but in the meantime SimpliFly can now provide a second DHGR conversion along with the SHR conversion using a 320 x 200 format... >I am most impressed by the possibilities of your converter. I have >converted some images and am simply amazed by the quality you can get out >of some of them. I am extremely impressed as well... the keys are in 3 areas; the Palettes are better than any emulator palette... the color mapping is better than anything that I know of... perfect perception using double precision floating point, and the error in the dithering is carried forward without truncating it... the common practice of clipping an error is incorrect. Rounding is OK but clipping of errors should never be done during diffusion. I also avoid dithering through pure color areas... you may have noticed that. It is especially apparent in black and white areas. I really hate it when I see a dither that kills a pure colored area. It loooks like hell on a small display like the Apple II. There are many crummy practices that people do not notice on large graphics... but when you get down to 140 x 192 you can't B*llshit! Oloiver is right about one thing... when viewed from your neighbor's house my DHGR dithering looks exactly like the color balance in a large photo. >Not every picture is suited for the conversion though. Give me some bad examples. Private mail. Your OrionIII has too much red in it but if I split the red using a different conversion palette which can be loaded from disk, an entirely acceptable result can be achieved. Cross-hatching at low thresholds such as 5 or 10 or 15% can also draw-out some additional colors when combined with error diffusion dithering. >Now you only have to make 'full motion video' at 1mhz and you will have >your place in Apple II history. :-P I should have had my place in Apple II history years ago based on the junk that I have seen. That includes Atkinson dithering. Bill
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| From | Anthony Lawther <alawther@spammenot.mac.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-06 10:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1736558183431691651.249434alawther-spammenot.mac.com@nntp.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21662 |
"Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> wrote: > "STYNX" <Jonas.Groenhagen@gmx.de> wrote: >> Bill Buckels wrote: >>> all previous DHGR converters were crap.. > Hi Jonas, > > I mean all of them, not just my MS-DOS converters that kevin was complaining > about. You found the bug in my old BMP routines and I fixed it for > SimpliFly... > > Together we suffered until I added a simple seek past this other crap that > some BMP creaters insert in their files. That bug wasn't fixed in the stuff > I wrote for MS-DOS, some of it years ago. It wasn't even a bug back when > this stuff was first written. > > The reason I work with BMPs is because they are simple. People should be > thankful that I don't work with my own PHA format or my friend John Bridges' > Pictor Paint format, or I may be tempted to insist on it. > > I think that's a fair deal and at least I am working with something that can > be created outside the GIMP which is perfectly capable of working with > BMP's. My latest coneverters are compatible with the GIMP 2.8 and Windows 7 > BMP's so anyone that says otherwise can get stuffed! > > I didn't hear about any problems with my old converters. Common sense would > have been to report a problem instead of sitting on it for a couple of > years... then announcing it when something truly wonderful actually worked. > >> Mostly correct... you could archive a similar result as yours by a lot of >> handwork ;-) > > I think the GIMP's dithering is coarse and too busy and dark, and not well > suited to the DHGR display. So perhaps ImageMagick can do better, but in the > meantime SimpliFly can now provide a second DHGR conversion along with the > SHR conversion using a 320 x 200 format... > >> I am most impressed by the possibilities of your converter. I have >> converted some images and am simply amazed by the quality you can get out >> of some of them. > > I am extremely impressed as well... the keys are in 3 areas; the Palettes > are better than any emulator palette... the color mapping is better than > anything that I know of... perfect perception using double precision > floating point, and the error in the dithering is carried forward without > truncating it... the common practice of clipping an error is incorrect. > Rounding is OK but clipping of errors should never be done during diffusion. > > I also avoid dithering through pure color areas... you may have noticed > that. It is especially apparent in black and white areas. I really hate it > when I see a dither that kills a pure colored area. It loooks like hell on a > small display like the Apple II. There are many crummy practices that people > do not notice on large graphics... but when you get down to 140 x 192 you > can't B*llshit! Oloiver is right about one thing... when viewed from your > neighbor's house my DHGR dithering looks exactly like the color balance in a > large photo. > >> Not every picture is suited for the conversion though. > > Give me some bad examples. Private mail. Your OrionIII has too much red in > it but if I split the red using a different conversion palette which can be > loaded from disk, an entirely acceptable result can be achieved. > Cross-hatching at low thresholds such as 5 or 10 or 15% can also draw-out > some additional colors when combined with error diffusion dithering. > >> Now you only have to make 'full motion video' at 1mhz and you will have >> your place in Apple II history. :-P > > I should have had my place in Apple II history years ago based on the junk > that I have seen. That includes Atkinson dithering. > > Bill I think it's fair to say that Bill has his place in Apple II history. While there may not be a flood of responses regarding use of his software, there is no doubt about his capability and his work ethic. My hat is off to you Bill; perhaps when I leave the office behind for good I too will have some time to produce something worthy of praise for the Apple II. Anthony.
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-06 20:11 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <lugbca$vkk$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21669 |
"Anthony Lawther" <alawther@spammenot.mac.com> wrote: >no doubt about his capability and his work ethic. Work harder not smarter is my motto:) >My hat is off to you Bill And mine to Sheldon Simms for jotting down his ideas... the domino effect is in effect here... thank you. >perhaps when I leave the office behind for good I too will have some time >to produce something worthy of praise for the Apple II. You'll need to balance that out unless you're getting younger. No need to wait:) Bill
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 19:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ludlu3$mef$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21653 |
<osgeld@cheesefactory.us> wrote: >on previous converters the only way I could get it to work was firing up >paint shop pro 6 (from 1998) open an already working example, paste the >image into that example and re-save it making sure my options were set >correctly for MS windows version of bmp (and the colors would scramble anyway) You never told me that. So what is more important; a retro-challenge or having something that works? I don't understand why you would accept crap. I had no idea these idiots were all embedding crap in their BMP files or I would have seeked past it as I do now, ever since Jonas and I banged-off our SHR work To me there's no fun in opening a million different formats just because someone makes a new telephone to take pictures. So way long time ago, I picked a non-compressed format that is easy to read and some legacy formats that nobody supports anymore. I have no dependence on third-party libraries at all in these converters. This one compiled in Turbo C from 1988 and on Osx and Linux as well as in Windows in MinGW. It would also have compiled in MicroSoft's Win32 compiler whatever that version is now, but it would have been HUGE and MinGW is tiny. I think that's pretty fair... it's more important to have something that works everywhere than something that reads a gimp file with a palette that is just plain wrong and based on emulator colors instead of something real. It's also more important to provide something that dithers properly for the Apple II display rather than someone's notion of what error diffusion dithering is on the gnat display. The source code clearly shows what it's supposed to be. I am also extremely confident in the color space. If after studying the code and the results you are able to challenge my position, then tell me quickly, because the HGR converter comes next. Believe me, it will be as startling as this one. Bill
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| From | osgeld@cheesefactory.us |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-06 11:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <bc5087b2-6869-4f9d-808a-4f834ba19696@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #21666 |
> I think that's pretty fair... it's more important to have something that > > works everywhere than something that reads a gimp file with a palette that > > is just plain wrong and based on emulator colors instead of something real I wrote my little converter as a 10 min hack during a game competition not as a point of pride. as far as accepting crap, at the time there wasnt much choice in the realm of DHGR, but I have to try your new converter out
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-06 20:27 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <lugc9a$4n9$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21670 |
<osgeld@cheesefactory.us> wrote: >I wrote my little converter as a 10 min hack during a game competition not >as a point of pride. I used the same colors too. I wasn't criticizing your colors... I was criticizing the emulator colors, and not just AppleWin. Sheldon Simms palette and the Wikipedia Palette are the only two that work properly psychovisually. I also don't think code is a point of pride. >as far as accepting crap, at the time there wasnt much choice in the realm >of DHGR, but I have to try your new converter out. It's not really mine. The algorithms are standard stuff. It is surprising that I stumbled around for so many years before realizing what was going on. I think we can do better with HGR too. Then comes the hard part; segmented palettes for SHR using the same simple techniques. Bill
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| From | mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 04:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mmphosis-1409892115@macgui.com> |
| In reply to | #21648 |
linUX and Osx .comPiles... http://hoop-la.ca/apple2/appleoldies/bmp2dhr/
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 04:17 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <lubv38$ecv$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21654 |
"mmphosis" <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote in message news:mmphosis-1409892115@macgui.com... linUX and Osx .comPiles... http://hoop-la.ca/apple2/appleoldies/bmp2dhr/ Perfect. Thanks. Palettes for the Gimp: http://www.appleoldies.ca/cc65/programs/dhgr/palettes/gimp.zip Palettes for PaintShop Pro http://www.appleoldies.ca/cc65/programs/dhgr/palettes/act.zip Bill
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| From | awanderin <awanderin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 11:46 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <m3wq9it0yv.fsf@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #21657 |
"Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> writes:
> "mmphosis" <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote in message
> news:mmphosis-1409892115@macgui.com...
> linUX and Osx .comPiles...
>
> http://hoop-la.ca/apple2/appleoldies/bmp2dhr/
>
> Perfect. Thanks.
>
> Palettes for the Gimp:
>
> http://www.appleoldies.ca/cc65/programs/dhgr/palettes/gimp.zip
>
> Palettes for PaintShop Pro
>
> http://www.appleoldies.ca/cc65/programs/dhgr/palettes/act.zip
So Bill, from the http://www.appleoldies.ca/ page, how does one find the
source code anyhow? I tried a couple of weeks ago to find it, but to no
avail. Now I see mmphosis has found a way, but I don't know how he
found the links to the source.
When I click on
http://www.appleoldies.ca/graphics/index.htm
it takes me to a page with no ZIP files, just PDF files.
Similarly, a google search:
site:appleoldies.ca filetype:zip
or
site:appleoldies.ca inurl:zip
returns no hits.
Is there some magic incantation required to find this stuff?
--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com
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| From | Charlie <charlieDOTd@verEYEzon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 14:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lud0ei$go5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #21660 |
On 9/5/2014 1:46 PM, awanderin wrote: > "Bill Buckels"<bbuckels@mts.net> writes: > >> "mmphosis"<mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote in message >> news:mmphosis-1409892115@macgui.com... >> linUX and Osx .comPiles... >> >> http://hoop-la.ca/apple2/appleoldies/bmp2dhr/ >> >> Perfect. Thanks. >> >> Palettes for the Gimp: >> >> http://www.appleoldies.ca/cc65/programs/dhgr/palettes/gimp.zip >> >> Palettes for PaintShop Pro >> >> http://www.appleoldies.ca/cc65/programs/dhgr/palettes/act.zip > > > So Bill, from the http://www.appleoldies.ca/ page, how does one find the > source code anyhow? I tried a couple of weeks ago to find it, but to no > avail. Now I see mmphosis has found a way, but I don't know how he > found the links to the source. > > When I click on > http://www.appleoldies.ca/graphics/index.htm > it takes me to a page with no ZIP files, just PDF files. > > Similarly, a google search: > site:appleoldies.ca filetype:zip > or > site:appleoldies.ca inurl:zip > returns no hits. > > Is there some magic incantation required to find this stuff? > > > -- > Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com I clicked on Bill's first link: http://hoop-la.ca/apple2/appleoldies/bmp2dhr/ and that brought up a small page with a link to bmp2dhr.zip which contains his well documented source code as well as a PC executable, Apple disk image and bmp files, etc. Charlie
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| From | "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-09-05 16:20 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <lud9fe$tg8$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #21661 |
"Charlie" <charlieDOTd@verEYEzon.net> wrote: >I clicked on Bill's first link: >http://hoop-la.ca/apple2/appleoldies/bmp2dhr/ >and that brought up a small page with a link to bmp2dhr.zip which contains >his well documented source code as well as a PC executable, Apple disk >image and bmp files, etc. Thanks Charlie... this is textbook stuff, I have invented nothing here, and it was Jonas that got me back into this dithering stuff... and lots of good references on the Internet. I didn't need to go ripping-off some code from the creative communists:) Since the textbooks are written for geniuses, I dummied-it down considerably in code so even I could understand it... But alas I fear I have traded-in elegant and more efficient code for something I can read and show everyone else... so now the secrets that were shrouded in techno-babble actually might make sense to the average guy:) I cannot describe the pain of memorizing this pice by piece to decompose it. I wish I was 40 years younger. Jonas tipped his hand abit when he mentioned full motion video in DHGR... but I need to stop there, since this stuff still needs doucmentation to be used to its potential. Bill
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