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Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vs Merlin vs ???

Started by	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
First post	2019-07-30 08:37 -0700
Last post	2019-08-02 09:26 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 67 — 16 participants

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#5190 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-02 06:54 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<1082549d-470e-42bd-a75a-a47d44b3dd7b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5189

If anyone's interested in looking at it, here's a link to a bootable ProDOS disk image with the Merlin source and binary files.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wKdu9P6lW-lKNPQMPNWqzbsvlQxorcMV/view?usp=sharing

When I run the file AV1, all I get is an Applesoft cursor back with no errors.

Thanks,
Dave

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#5191 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-02 08:45 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<39bf7286-0523-45a6-9ad0-af6bb348e044@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5190

On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 9:54:05 AM UTC-4, tou...@gmail.com wrote:
> If anyone's interested in looking at it, here's a link to a bootable ProDOS disk image with the Merlin source and binary files.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wKdu9P6lW-lKNPQMPNWqzbsvlQxorcMV/view?usp=sharing
> 
> When I run the file AV1, all I get is an Applesoft cursor back with no errors.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave

And here's a link to a screencap of the program in AppleWin's debugger.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U9fOL61QA5SwY-WwoUITav2dOUKCmgVe/view?usp=sharing.

I don't know much, but it looks to me like the characters are being sent to COUT, so why aren't they showing up on the screen?

-Dave

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#5193 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	andrew.roughan@writeme.com
Date	2019-08-02 23:25 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<e69db97d-aa38-40c6-8a72-421d61b0c780@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5190

On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 11:54:05 PM UTC+10, tou...@gmail.com wrote:
> If anyone's interested in looking at it, here's a link to a bootable ProDOS disk image with the Merlin source and binary files.

Hmmm. I can open that 140k image in Ciderpress, but the image is not recognised by GS/OS when I try to mount it in Finder under GSport... I'm not sure what is going on there. It has been a while since I've used 140k images in 5.25 drives so perhaps I haven't configured something properly.

I had a look at the binary file within Ciderpress. It looks correct to me. I don't know what your issue is.

Regards,
Andrew

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#5198 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-04 17:40 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<e0f1fb51-01f3-4df8-b6f0-7e1f968818c8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5193

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 2:25:02 AM UTC-4, andrew...@writeme.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 2, 2019 at 11:54:05 PM UTC+10, tou...@gmail.com wrote:
> > If anyone's interested in looking at it, here's a link to a bootable ProDOS disk image with the Merlin source and binary files.
> 
> Hmmm. I can open that 140k image in Ciderpress, but the image is not recognised by GS/OS when I try to mount it in Finder under GSport... I'm not sure what is going on there. It has been a while since I've used 140k images in 5.25 drives so perhaps I haven't configured something properly.
> 
> I had a look at the binary file within Ciderpress. It looks correct to me. I don't know what your issue is.
> 
> Regards,
> Andrew

Not sure why you're having trouble with the disk image. I downloaded it using the Google Drive link I posted and it loaded in GSport and ActiveGS OK. Anyhow, it's a moot point. The issues has been (mostly) solved... See below.

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#5194 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	denisbytezone@gmail.com
Date	2019-08-03 00:54 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<96e8ed49-0976-4de0-8696-f60803aad206@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5190

On Friday, 2 August 2019 23:54:05 UTC+10, tou...@gmail.com  wrote:
> If anyone's interested in looking at it, here's a link to a bootable ProDOS disk image with the Merlin source and binary files.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wKdu9P6lW-lKNPQMPNWqzbsvlQxorcMV/view?usp=sharing
> 
> When I run the file AV1, all I get is an Applesoft cursor back with no errors.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave

The object code in AV1 bears no resemblance to the source code in AV1.S. Did you assemble the source? Where did it go?

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#5195 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	denisbytezone@gmail.com
Date	2019-08-03 00:58 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<a68ed4fd-8b9b-4a21-86ae-2c065785941b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5194

On Saturday, 3 August 2019 17:54:44 UTC+10, denisb...@gmail.com  wrote:
> On Friday, 2 August 2019 23:54:05 UTC+10, tou...@gmail.com  wrote:
> > If anyone's interested in looking at it, here's a link to a bootable ProDOS disk image with the Merlin source and binary files.
> > 
> > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wKdu9P6lW-lKNPQMPNWqzbsvlQxorcMV/view?usp=sharing
> > 
> > When I run the file AV1, all I get is an Applesoft cursor back with no errors.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Dave
> 
> The object code in AV1 bears no resemblance to the source code in AV1.S. Did you assemble the source? Where did it go?

Sorry, ignore that message. I confused myself.

Now, surely it is loading the first character, comparing it to zero and then exiting. Shouldn't the BNE be BEQ?

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#5196 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net>
Date	2019-08-03 05:14 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<5dc5f2b6-8134-4765-807b-6b4108df69e8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5195

First is beq, second is bne. from memory, X is preserved so we are supposed to be good,
av

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#5197 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-04 05:19 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<c738c0b3-4e64-436b-a79d-0582271144b6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5196

Thanks for looking at this, everybody.

To be honest, I’m not sure the code in the file I uploaded is the same as what’s shown in the debugger. I have typed it in several times to try in different different assemblers and may have gotten the bne and beq switched at some point. 

I can’t check right now because I’m away from the computer, spending time with my granddaughters, but I’ll check it this evening and post in update with my findings. 

-Dave

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#5199 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-04 18:00 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<8339c8d0-3da8-4fc5-a0f7-ada29da239cf@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5195

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 3:58:50 AM UTC-4, denisb...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Now, surely it is loading the first character, comparing it to zero and then exiting. Shouldn't the BNE be BEQ?

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 8:14:15 AM UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> First is beq, second is bne. from memory, X is preserved so we are supposed to be good,
> av

That is indeed the answer! When I first typed in the code, it appears that I typed BNE instead of BEQ after loading a character, before sending it to COUT.

When I typed it into Merlin 8, I got it right, and that's why it worked then.

When I typed it again for Merlin 16 (not 16+) I made the same error, or maybe I just copied the original Merlin 16+ source file, so the error was there.

I changed the first BNE to BEQ in Merlin 16+ and it worked, but only after quitting Merlin 16+, running BASIC.SYSTEM, and running the binary from there using -AV1. It DID NOT work when running from the Merlin 16+ Main Menu Disk Command line, using -AV1.

Further investigation shows that it will run from the Merlin 16 (not+) or Merlin 8 Main Menu Disk Command line.

So, after more study of the Merlin 16+ Supplement manual, I found a discussion about EXE files on page 28 saying:

 "When an EXE file is launched from the Main Menu disk command, or by the Command Box as a shell command, it is executed in full 16=bit mode (as per Apple Protocol)...

As I read further, it started getting into things I don't quite understand yet.

So, is there a way to launch the assembled 8-bit file as an 8-bit program without leaving Merlin and starting Basic System, like it appears that Merlin 16(not+) does? That seems like a major time waster when developing an 8-bit program.

Thanks again!
-Dave

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#5200 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	Andrew Roughan <andrew.roughan@writeme.com>
Date	2019-08-05 10:38 +0000
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<qi90vs$72s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#5199

touvell@gmail.com <touvell@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, after more study of the Merlin 16+ Supplement manual, I found a
> discussion about EXE files

EXE files allow user built commands to be executed from the M16+ command
prompt or from a command file.

This is not really the mechanism you want.

> So, is there a way to launch the assembled 8-bit file as an 8-bit program
> without leaving Merlin and starting Basic System, like it appears that
> Merlin 16(not+) does?

I don’t think so. M16+ is geared towards GS development and it’s command
line doesn’t make P8 or Bank 0 memory available.

Use the correct tool for what you want to do. Merlin 8/16 for Prodos 8
targeted code or 16+ for GS/OS.

Regards
Andrew

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#5201 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-05 05:21 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<f30c4bb1-ebbc-41df-a54d-d4499b54bd53@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5200

Thanks, Andrew. 

That sounds reasonable. I just wondered if I was missing something. 

-Dave

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#5202 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-05 09:54 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<812b6445-5461-4609-8fcb-9bd9aa35ec55@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5201

Does the same hold true for ORCA/M - use the 8-bit version for developing ProDOS 8 programs and the 16-bit version for making GS programs?  Or will the 16-bit version of ORCA/M do both?

-Dave

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#5203 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net>
Date	2019-08-05 11:17 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<fe6d113b-09aa-4eb2-a1d7-e4bba047913b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5202

Hi Dave,
what I do to quickly test a bin pgm from Merlin 16+
D for disk commands
=/systeme/basic.system
/systeme is my boot partition
then, I brun the pgm
and then, I type bye to return to Merlin
paths are preserved ;-)

Antoine

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#5204 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-05 15:19 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<854e7e03-b136-426f-ba38-1678afe1e5ce@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5203

On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 2:17:45 PM UTC-4, Antoine Vignau wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> what I do to quickly test a bin pgm from Merlin 16+
> D for disk commands
> =/systeme/basic.system
> /systeme is my boot partition
> then, I brun the pgm
> and then, I type bye to return to Merlin
> paths are preserved ;-)
> 
> Antoine

Thanks, Antoine. That's a great idea. I'll try it.

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#5207 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	Andrew Roughan <andrew.roughan@writeme.com>
Date	2019-08-06 21:05 +0000
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<qicq2q$4hd$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#5203

Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net> wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> what I do to quickly test a bin pgm from Merlin 16+
> D for disk commands
> =/systeme/basic.system
> /systeme is my boot partition
> then, I brun the pgm
> and then, I type bye to return to Merlin
> paths are preserved ;-)
> 
> Antoine
> 

Basis.system that comes with Prodos 2.5 looks to be smaller (faster load
time).
https://prodos8.com/

Regards
Andrew

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#5210 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"touvell@gmail.com" <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-06 17:17 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<ee2018db-81b6-4ce5-b33f-0b649c1343bc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5207

On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 5:05:31 PM UTC-4, Andrew Roughan wrote:
> 
> Basis.system that comes with Prodos 2.5 looks to be smaller (faster load
> time).
> https://prodos8.com/
> 
> Regards
> Andrew

Thanks Andrew! Cool site, I hadn't seen it before. I think I'll try the new version out.

I can't find basis.system, though. I downloaded all the versions, including 2.5a2 and all of the 2.4.x versions but didn't see it on any of the disks.

I watched the video from KFest 2017 where John mentioned it, but can't see where it is. Is it a feature built in to the Bitsy Boot program, instead of a separate file?

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#5212 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	"Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com>
Date	2019-08-06 19:09 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<f728a108-32de-4bef-addb-df75bd8202f2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5210

On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 5:17:10 PM UTC-7, tou...@gmail.com wrote:
> I can't find basis.system, though. I downloaded all the versions, including 2.5a2 and all of the 2.4.x versions but didn't see it on any of the disks. 


BASIS would be a program you wrote. It's a way to pass filenames selected in Bitsy Bye to your system file (that would then perform an action on the selected file). You put it inside the folder with the files.

I think this was posted here elsewhere...

"When a file is selected, Bitsy Bye launches /VOL/BASIS.SYSTEM with:
1) The ProDOS prefix set to the directory containing the selected file.
2) The filename of the selected file stored at $2006 (the 65 byte startup path buffer within BASIS.SYSTEM)
3) $280 is set to the name of the root volume
4) $380 is set to the name of the launched SYS file (ie, /VOL/BASIS.SYSTEM)"

f

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#5213 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	Andrew Roughan <andrew.roughan@writeme.com>
Date	2019-08-07 13:44 +0000
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<qiekjg$jrq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#5212

On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 5:17:10 PM UTC-7, tou...@gmail.com wrote:
> I can't find basis.system, though. I downloaded all the versions,
> including 2.5a2 and all of the 2.4.x versions but didn't see it on any of the disks. 

I’m sorry for the misdirection. The link was correct but I failed to check
my information.
I meant Prodos 2.4.2 and MiniBas.

Other inputs elsewhere re 2.5.x and Basis.system (as per Frank) clouded my
intention.

Regards
Andrew

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#5215 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	Dave Touvell <touvell@gmail.com>
Date	2019-08-07 09:01 -0700
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<15ad2337-96d5-42b8-92c4-271c38e9c144@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#5213

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-4, Andrew Roughan wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 5:17:10 PM UTC-7, tou...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I can't find basis.system, though. I downloaded all the versions,
> > including 2.5a2 and all of the 2.4.x versions but didn't see it on any of the disks. 
> 
> I’m sorry for the misdirection. The link was correct but I failed to check
> my information.
> I meant Prodos 2.4.2 and MiniBas.
> 
> Other inputs elsewhere re 2.5.x and Basis.system (as per Frank) clouded my
> intention.
> 
> Regards
> Andrew

Thanks again, Andrew. I saw MiniBas and was going to look into that further, but haven't had time to do much with it. It does sound like it may do the trick, though.

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#5216 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

From	Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co>
Date	2019-08-08 01:27 -0400
Subject	Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???
Message-ID	<alpine.BSF.2.02.1908080126440.18756@frieza.hoshinet.org>
In reply to	#5215

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019, Dave Touvell wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:44:18 AM UTC-4, Andrew Roughan wrote:
>> On Tuesday, August 6, 2019 at 5:17:10 PM UTC-7, tou...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I can't find basis.system, though. I downloaded all the versions,
>>> including 2.5a2 and all of the 2.4.x versions but didn't see it on any of the disks.
>>
>> I’m sorry for the misdirection. The link was correct but I failed to check
>> my information.
>> I meant Prodos 2.4.2 and MiniBas.
>>
>> Other inputs elsewhere re 2.5.x and Basis.system (as per Frank) clouded my
>> intention.
>>
>> Regards
>> Andrew
>
> Thanks again, Andrew. I saw MiniBas and was going to look into that 
> further, but haven't had time to do much with it. It does sound like it 
> may do the trick, though.

It's just a tiny wedge that allows programs to be launched from Bitsy Bye 
without requiring the full 21-sector BASIC.SYSTEM.

(Disclosure: I wrote it)

-uso.

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Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vs Merlin vs ???

Contents

#5190 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5191 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5193 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5198 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5194 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5195 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5196 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5197 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5199 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5200 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5201 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5202 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5203 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5204 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5207 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5210 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5212 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5213 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5215 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???

#5216 — Re: Assembler for Learning Assembly Language Programming ORCA vsMerlin vs ???