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Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving?

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  Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Michael Bell <michael@beaverbell.co.uk> - 2012-03-29 18:16 +0100
    Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-03-29 19:22 +0100
      Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Alan Griffin <ajg@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-03-29 23:08 +0100
    Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-03-29 23:42 +0100
      Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-03-31 22:41 +0100
        Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-03-31 23:06 +0100
          Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-01 10:33 +0100
            Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-04-01 11:19 +0100
              Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-01 11:48 +0100
                Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-01 22:41 +0200
                Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-04 06:51 +0100
              Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Kevin Wells <kev@kevsoft.co.uk> - 2012-04-01 11:39 +0100
                Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-01 13:46 +0100
            Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Chris Hughes <news@noonehere.co.uk> - 2012-04-01 11:48 +0100
              Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2012-04-01 13:49 +0100
                Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-01 15:36 +0100
                  Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Chris Bell <news@highpath.net> - 2012-04-01 18:05 +0100
                Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-04-01 20:56 +0100
                Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-04-01 20:57 +0100
                  Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Chris Johnson <chrisjohnson+news@spamcop.net> - 2012-04-01 22:43 +0100
            Re: Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving? Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-04-07 14:05 +0100

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#4644 — Is there a way of getting PDFs to open without saving?

Browsing the web with netsurf I often come across interesting-looking 
sites - and get a PDF which I can only open and read by saving it in a 
temp file. Is there a way of opening reading such PDFs without saving 
them: they then have to be deleted, many turn out to be of no 
interest.

Michael Bell

-- 

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#4645

In article <8c1d257852.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk>,
   Michael Bell <michael@beaverbell.co.uk> wrote:
> Browsing the web with netsurf I often come across interesting-looking 
> sites - and get a PDF which I can only open and read by saving it in a 
> temp file. Is there a way of opening reading such PDFs without saving 
> them: they then have to be deleted, many turn out to be of no 
> interest.

For me it depends on which browser is in use and having RiScript 'seen' by
a pdf reading program loaded to the icon bar - in my case !PDF or
!RiScript. 

With Netsurf it is a matter of dragging the download icon to RiScript.  I
assume this will also work with !PDF but I've not tried it.

With Oregano RisScript is automatically called and loads. although the
wanted file isn't automatically loaded into RiScript.  I have to repeat the
download for it to actually load into RiScript so I usually load RiScript
before downloading a pdf file.  

Oregano also downloads a pdf file directly into !PDF if that is loaded to
the icon bar.

Cheers

Alan

-- 
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.

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#4648

In article <52782b2755alan_calder@o2.co.uk>, Alan Calder
<alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8c1d257852.michaelbell@michael.beaverbell.co.uk>, Michael
>    Bell <michael@beaverbell.co.uk> wrote:
> > Browsing the web with netsurf I often come across
> > interesting-looking sites - and get a PDF which I can only open
> > and read by saving it in a temp file. Is there a way of opening
> > reading such PDFs without saving them: they then have to be
> > deleted, many turn out to be of no interest.

Just save them into the RAMdisc

Alan Griffin

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#4649

Michael Bell <michael@beaverbell.co.uk> wrote:

> Browsing the web with netsurf I often come across interesting-looking
> sites - and get a PDF which I can only open and read by saving it in a
> temp file. Is there a way of opening reading such PDFs without saving
> them...

There's no way for an app that displays the contents of a PDF file to
display anything unless the file is downloaded first.  

What might vary is whether you're aware that the file was downloaded (eg
some browsers will display a PDF 'in the browser' using a plugin, and some
users probably think there's no downloaded file).  But it will simply have
been downloaded to a temporary-files folder then the plugin invoked to
display it.  Whether the temporary-files folder then gets emptied depends on
the OS and/or any other temporary-file cleanup processes you do.

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  

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#4680

In article <mpro.m1o4fd001gaxz00bc@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>, Jeremy
Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> Michael Bell <michael@beaverbell.co.uk> wrote:

> > Browsing the web with netsurf I often come across interesting-looking
> > sites - and get a PDF which I can only open and read by saving it in
> > a temp file. Is there a way of opening reading such PDFs without
> > saving them...

> There's no way for an app that displays the contents of a PDF file to
> display anything unless the file is downloaded first.  

[snip]

Just as a browser can't display a page until it is downloaded.  :-/

I think what is wanted is a mechanism whereby a pdf link in 'a' browser
is clicked and the file is displayed, with no user intervention in
between. Or the picture displayed, the music played or the video
rendered. I can dream. 

I like to think it worked the RISC OS way, that is: different filetypes
are dealt with by different applications. It shouldn't be beyond the
realms of possibility for a browser to (optionally) download a file to
scrap and then FilerRun certain filetypes. That is all that is needed to
render a PDF file etc if !PDF etc is set up properly.

-- 
Tim Hill of timil.com . . .
* supports TFT & shares in cheaper ethical telecoms http://tjrh.eu/phone
* has a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/
* accepts incoming email: substitute postmaster@ for tim@

... "In nature there's no blemish but the mind; none can be called deform'd but the unkind" Twelfth N, Act iii, Sc.4

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#4681

In article <5279451937tim@invalid.org.uk>,
   Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <mpro.m1o4fd001gaxz00bc@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>, Jeremy
> Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> > Michael Bell <michael@beaverbell.co.uk> wrote:

> > > Browsing the web with netsurf I often come across interesting-looking
> > > sites - and get a PDF which I can only open and read by saving it in
> > > a temp file. Is there a way of opening reading such PDFs without
> > > saving them...

> > There's no way for an app that displays the contents of a PDF file to
> > display anything unless the file is downloaded first.  

> [snip]

> Just as a browser can't display a page until it is downloaded.  :-/

> I think what is wanted is a mechanism whereby a pdf link in 'a' browser
> is clicked and the file is displayed, with no user intervention in
> between. Or the picture displayed, the music played or the video
> rendered. I can dream. 

> I like to think it worked the RISC OS way, that is: different filetypes
> are dealt with by different applications. It shouldn't be beyond the
> realms of possibility for a browser to (optionally) download a file to
> scrap and then FilerRun certain filetypes. That is all that is needed to
> render a PDF file etc if !PDF etc is set up properly.

In an earlier post on this thread I noted that something like this does
happen with Oregano.  If a pdf is double-clicked on in the browser than a
pdf reader is tarted up, in my case RiScript.  I have to repeat the double
click for the file to actually loaded into the reader but that's only for
the first time.

With Netsurf this doesn't happen, you still have to drag the download icon
to the pdf reader.

What's needed is for Netsurf to behave like Oregano.

Alan

-- 
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.

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#4694

On 31 Mar, Alan Calder wrote in message
    <527947572falan_calder@o2.co.uk>:

> In an earlier post on this thread I noted that something like this does
> happen with Oregano.  If a pdf is double-clicked on in the browser than a
> pdf reader is tarted up, in my case RiScript.  I have to repeat the double
> click for the file to actually loaded into the reader but that's only for
> the first time.

That doesn't sound right.  There should be absolutely no need for the two
double-clicks, if Oregano does the job correctly according and to the
RISC OS spec.
 
> With Netsurf this doesn't happen, you still have to drag the download icon
> to the pdf reader.
> 
> What's needed is for Netsurf to behave like Oregano.

Hmm -- not sure I'd like that "improvement" (and as Alan doesn't seem to be
offering, I'd presumably be the person implementing it).  What might be
good, though, would be an "Open" button in the download window.

However, it needs to be done carefully if it's not going to fill up users'
hard discs with downloaded PDFs that they viewed months ago.

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England             Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
                                             Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/           http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/

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#4695

In article <mpro.m1snv501klgrk01jn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
<news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 31 Mar, Alan Calder wrote in message <527947572falan_calder@o2.co.uk>:

> > In an earlier post on this thread I noted that something like this
> > does happen with Oregano.  If a pdf is double-clicked on in the
> > browser than a pdf reader is tarted up, in my case RiScript.  I have
> > to repeat the double click for the file to actually loaded into the
> > reader but that's only for the first time.

> That doesn't sound right.  There should be absolutely no need for the
> two double-clicks, if Oregano does the job correctly according and to
> the RISC OS spec.

It's what happens though.  In my mind it can be explained by Oregano
looking for a receiever programme, not finding it active, loading one - and
then forgetting what it had come upstairs for, a computer senior moment.
>  
> > With Netsurf this doesn't happen, you still have to drag the download
> > icon to the pdf reader.
> > 
> > What's needed is for Netsurf to behave like Oregano.

> Hmm -- not sure I'd like that "improvement" (and as Alan doesn't seem to
> be offering, I'd presumably be the person implementing it).  What might
> be good, though, would be an "Open" button in the download window.

> However, it needs to be done carefully if it's not going to fill up
> users' hard discs with downloaded PDFs that they viewed months ago.

Far beyond my pay grade to undertake such a thing.  Puzzled by the last bit
though.  I'd assumed that the download would be directly to the pdf reader
and not to the harddisk.  Are the pdf files downloaded by Oregano to
RiScript or PDF being stored somewhere on my disk?  I'd assumed it was all
done in memory.

Alan

-- 
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.

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#4699

On 1 Apr, Alan Calder wrote in message
    <52798a8124alan_calder@o2.co.uk>:

> In article <mpro.m1snv501klgrk01jn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt
> <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > There should be absolutely no need for the two double-clicks, if Oregano
> > does the job correctly according and to the RISC OS spec.
> 
> It's what happens though.  In my mind it can be explained by Oregano
> looking for a receiever programme, not finding it active, loading one -
> and then forgetting what it had come upstairs for, a computer senior
> moment.

ie. a bug. :-)

[snip]

> > However, it needs to be done carefully if it's not going to fill up
> > users' hard discs with downloaded PDFs that they viewed months ago.
> 
> Puzzled by the last bit though.  I'd assumed that the download would be
> directly to the pdf reader and not to the harddisk.  Are the pdf files
> downloaded by Oregano to RiScript or PDF being stored somewhere on my
> disk?  I'd assumed it was all done in memory.

It has to be done via disc: RAM Transfers can only be initiated via the Data
Transfer Protocol, and you need to know drag and drop targets for that
(which we don't in this situation).  This would be a Data Load, which is
simply a case of passing the filename on disc to all running applications,
until one claims it (followed by trying to run whatever is associated with
the filetype if it remains unclaimed).

The problem then is that there's then no way for the target application to
tell NetSurf that it's closed the file, so that the copy on disc can be
deleted (unless something like the OLE protocol could be abused to do it;
I'd need to do some research, which isn't going to happen any time soon). 
So the files just stay on disc, using up space, until someone or something
goes in and deletes them.

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England             Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
                                             Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/           http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/

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#4716

On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 11:48:03 +0100, Steve Fryatt 
<news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

>> disk?  I'd assumed it was all done in memory.

That'd be a waste of memory, no?


> So the files just stay on disc, using up space, until someone or 
something
> goes in and deletes them.

Not at all. It is simple. Drop them into !Scrap, and pop something 
into the boot sequence that deletes whatever may be in !Scrap... 
Isn't that sort of how it was supposed to work anyway?


Best wishes,

Rick.

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#4749

In message <mpro.m1src1036enls01jn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
 on 1 Apr 2012 Steve Fryatt  wrote:

> The problem then is that there's then no way for the target application to
> tell NetSurf that it's closed the file, so that the copy on disc can be
> deleted (unless something like the OLE protocol could be abused to do it;
> I'd need to do some research, which isn't going to happen any time soon).

The OLE protocol could be used for this, but only if !PDF supported it fully,
which is very unlikely to be the case given that !PDF does not allow files to
be edited.  Without proper support for OLE from !PDF you would have to fall
back on the OLESupport module, which simulates OLE for non-compliant editors. 
But the problem for the above use case is that OLESupport is unable to tell
you when the file is closed, only when the file has been saved by the editor.

The only sensible solution, I think, would be to use !Scrap, and for NetSurf
to delete anything more than a day old, say.
 
The other way of handling PDFs in NetSurf, which would also require !PDF to
be rewritten, would be to use the plugin protocol.  Then the PDF would appear
within NetSurf's own window.  I know even less about the Plugin protocol than
I do about OLE.

-- 
Matthew Phillips
Durham

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#4701

In message <52798a8124alan_calder@o2.co.uk>
          Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Far beyond my pay grade to undertake such a thing.  Puzzled by the last bit
>though.  I'd assumed that the download would be directly to the pdf reader
>and not to the harddisk.  Are the pdf files downloaded by Oregano to
>RiScript or PDF being stored somewhere on my disk?  I'd assumed it was all
>done in memory.
>

It should store it in !Scrap and when finished it should delete the
file.


-- 
Kev Wells  http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/   http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
Q: How do you make a dog drink? A: Put it in a liquidizer.

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#4703

On 1 Apr, Kevin Wells wrote in message
    <b6548c7952.Kevin@talktalk.net>:

> It should store it in !Scrap and when finished it should delete the file.

Define "it".  !PDF or RiScript don't know that the file is temporary and to
be deleted when finished with.  NetSurf doesn't know when !PDF or RiScript
have finished with the file...

:-)

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England             Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
                                             Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/           http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/

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#4700

In message <mpro.m1snv501klgrk01jn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
          Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> On 31 Mar, Alan Calder wrote in message
>     <527947572falan_calder@o2.co.uk>:

>> In an earlier post on this thread I noted that something like this does
>> happen with Oregano.  If a pdf is double-clicked on in the browser than a
>> pdf reader is tarted up, in my case RiScript.  I have to repeat the double
>> click for the file to actually loaded into the reader but that's only for
>> the first time.

> That doesn't sound right.  There should be absolutely no need for the two
> double-clicks, if Oregano does the job correctly according and to the
> RISC OS spec.

Its a "feature" of Riscript when opening PDF's its appears to download 
the PDF file and then fail to actually open it until you do it a 
second time.

>> With Netsurf this doesn't happen, you still have to drag the download icon
>> to the pdf reader.
>> 
>> What's needed is for Netsurf to behave like Oregano.

> Hmm -- not sure I'd like that "improvement" (and as Alan doesn't seem to be
> offering, I'd presumably be the person implementing it).  What might be
> good, though, would be an "Open" button in the download window.

> However, it needs to be done carefully if it's not going to fill up users'
> hard discs with downloaded PDFs that they viewed months ago.

They are usually get placed in scrap so should ideally be cleaned up 
by the system



-- 
Chris Hughes
Come to the Wakefield Show - 28th April 2012
http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk

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#4702

On 1 Apr, Chris Hughes wrote in message
    <a21b8d7952.chris@o2.co.uk>:

> In message <mpro.m1snv501klgrk01jn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
>           Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> > However, it needs to be done carefully if it's not going to fill up
> > users' hard discs with downloaded PDFs that they viewed months ago.
> 
> They are usually get placed in scrap so should ideally be cleaned up by
> the system

Sadly not.  They're in Scrap, but since Wimp$Scrap is just a single file,
multiple downloads require NetSurf to allocate its own temporary files
within its own Scrap sub-directory.

The system knows nothing about them.  This is a common problem on RISC OS.

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England             Wakefield Acorn & RISC OS Show
                                             Saturday 28 April 2012
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/           http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/

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#4706

In message <mpro.m1swyv057vrdc01jn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
          Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> Sadly not.  They're in Scrap, but since Wimp$Scrap is just a single file,
> multiple downloads require NetSurf to allocate its own temporary files
> within its own Scrap sub-directory.

> The system knows nothing about them.  This is a common problem on RISC OS.

Couldn't NS just attempt to clear the folder on shutdown and start up? 
(Or doesn't the reader lock the file).

If it does, couldn't it just treat it in a similar manner to cached 
html pages?

My scrap is in RAM so it wouldn't trouble me.

-- 
Jess                   Iyonix

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#4711

Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> > The system knows nothing about them.  This is a common problem on
> > RISC OS.

> My scrap is in RAM so it wouldn't trouble me.

Or use something like ScrapClean to clean up your hard-disc Scrap
directory every time you switch on.

Chris.

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#4714

In article <mpro.m1swyv057vrdc01jn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
   Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> Sadly not.  They're in Scrap, but since Wimp$Scrap is just a single file,
> multiple downloads require NetSurf to allocate its own temporary files
> within its own Scrap sub-directory.

> The system knows nothing about them.  This is a common problem on RISC
> OS.

As all the files in the scrap directory are supposed to be temporary
files, in the case of RO 5, maybe ROOL could be asked to provide a
configurable "empty scrap" at closedown.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

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#4715

In article <mpro.m1swyv057vrdc01jn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
   Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> Sadly not.  They're in Scrap, but since Wimp$Scrap is just a single
> file, multiple downloads require NetSurf to allocate its own temporary
> files within its own Scrap sub-directory.

> The system knows nothing about them.  This is a common problem on RISC
> OS.

I realise this may not be universally applicable or even possible but I
present here just an idea.

With RO4 came a "Recycle bin". If this recycle bin could be used as
temporary storage, such files would be deleted everytime the recycle bin
was emptied

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

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#4718

In article <5279bf5d7aSpambin@argonet.co.uk>,
   Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> With RO4 came a "Recycle bin". If this recycle bin could be used as
> temporary storage, such files would be deleted everytime the
> recycle bin was emptied

The use of <Wimp$Scrap> for temporary files is an essential part of
the specification for the data transfer protocol. It is not possible
to use some other arbitrary temporary file location without breaking
just about everything. How individual applications deal with their
own temporary files is another matter, but inter app transfer
protocols are more or less fixed in stone.

-- 
Chris Johnson

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