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Printer

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  Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-18 12:34 +0000
    Re: Printer Chris Johnson <chrisjohnson+news@spamcop.net> - 2012-03-18 13:16 +0000
      Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-18 16:11 +0000
        Re: Printer Chris Johnson <chrisjohnson+news@spamcop.net> - 2012-03-18 17:26 +0000
          Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-18 19:06 +0000
            Re: Printer Chris Johnson <chrisjohnson+news@spamcop.net> - 2012-03-18 20:45 +0000
              Re: Printer Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-03-18 21:39 +0000
                Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 06:21 +0000
                  Re: Printer Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 14:23 +0100
                  Re: Printer Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-03-19 14:15 +0000
                    Re: Printer Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 18:53 +0100
                      Re: Printer Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-03-22 14:12 +0000
                  Re: Printer Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-03-22 14:08 +0000
                Re: Printer Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 10:39 +0000
              Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 05:47 +0000
            Re: Printer Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> - 2012-03-18 21:51 +0000
              Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 05:42 +0000
          Re: Printer Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 12:58 +0000
            Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 19:21 +0000
              Re: Printer Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 19:47 +0000
                Re: Printer Chris Johnson <chrisjohnson+news@spamcop.net> - 2012-03-19 20:46 +0000
                Re: Printer Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-03-19 22:31 +0000
                  Re: Printer Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-03-20 11:32 +0000
                  Re: Printer Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-03-20 13:26 +0000
                    Re: Printer Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2012-03-20 16:20 +0100
                      Re: Printer Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-03-20 16:05 +0000
                      Printer Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-03-20 16:07 +0000
                      Re: Printer Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-03-20 17:29 +0000
              Re: Printer M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2012-03-19 20:17 +0000
                Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-19 20:42 +0000
                  Re: Printer M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2012-03-19 21:37 +0000
                    Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-20 07:08 +0000
                      Re: Printer M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2012-03-20 10:39 +0000
                  Re: Printer Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-03-20 13:14 +0000
                    Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-20 19:07 +0000
                      Re: Printer Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-03-21 10:38 +0000
                        Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-21 19:40 +0000
                          Re: Printer Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> - 2012-03-21 22:29 +0000
                          Re: Printer Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-03-22 17:13 +0000
                            Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-22 19:01 +0000
                              Re: Printer Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-03-23 07:33 +0000
                            Re: Printer Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-03-22 20:34 +0000
                              Re: Printer Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2012-03-23 12:05 +0100
                            Re: Printer Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2012-03-23 12:08 +0100
                              Re: Printer Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2012-03-23 11:39 +0000
      Re: Printer John Tytgat <this@is.invalid> - 2012-03-20 01:10 +0100
        Re: Printer Chris Johnson <chrisjohnson+news@spamcop.net> - 2012-03-20 11:05 +0000

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#4452

In article <52730c9dc3alan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
   Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> My main delight in using the Kyo as a PS printer is the sheer speed
> at which I get control of the computer back from the printer.
> Memory heavy print jobs seemed to take ages when the Acorn drivers
> were used, in PS mode it takes seconds at most.

... which is what postscript is all about - a generic page
description language. Most of the required processing to get the dots
printed in the right place is done by the postscript interpreter in
the printer, and not by the computer. One of the reasons postscript
does not deal in 'resolution' as such is that it is generic for any
postscript printer. The printer hardware determines the resolution.
The same PS driver works on Kyocera, Lexmark, HP, Canon etc etc.

-- 
Chris Johnson

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#4455

In article <52730c9dc3alan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
   Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:

> My main delight in using the Kyo as a PS printer is the
> sheer speed at which I get control of the computer back
> from the printer. Memory heavy print jobs seemed to take
> ages when the Acorn drivers were used, in PS mode it takes
> seconds at most.

Presumably the printer has a massive memory? Or are you
talking about printing in the background?

I find PCL printing (under Windows) will print a document in
seconds, maybe less, while PoScript can take minutes in
terms of the time it takes for the data to get to the
printer.

Trouble is, again talking windows and the USB->parallel
connection, that PCL printing often delivers corrupted
prinouts, while PoScript is more likely to fail with no
printing at all. There are times, though, when just part of
the document prints.

From RISC OS there are no serious problems printing
documents from RO applications, most of my Easiwriter
documents produce PoScript files around 10x the document
size, which take some 10 to 15s to print.

But some PDFs of quite a sensible size produce RO PoScript
files of several MB and can take 30 minutes or more to
print, while under Windows it is a few hundred KB

But as I always print in the background, I have use of the
computer after a couple of seconds anyway.

-- 
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

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#4464

In article <52731b98c6see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>,
   Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> In article <52730c9dc3alan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
>    Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:

> > My main delight in using the Kyo as a PS printer is the
> > sheer speed at which I get control of the computer back
> > from the printer. Memory heavy print jobs seemed to take
> > ages when the Acorn drivers were used, in PS mode it takes
> > seconds at most.

> Presumably the printer has a massive memory? Or are you
> talking about printing in the background?

I've got 49KB in the printer, it was a good home for an old 32KB card from
a RPC.  Did make a bit of a difference but I never did any formal tests.

Not printing in the background but then I'm not printing directly to the
printer.  The printer is connected to a printserver box on the network and
so the printer output is sent to the harddisk and then sent on to the
printserver via LPR (courtesy of RComp) by a process I have no knowledge
of!  

Exactly the same happens, as I understand it, on my Windows machine where
LPR is also the means of sending data to the printer.

There seems to be no great difference in the time to regain control of the
computer on starting the print job once allowances have been made for the
fact that the Windows machine has a processor some ten times faster than
the RPC - not to speak of a memory difference akin to the relative volume
difference between the Moon and Jupiter.

Printing the relatively graphic heavy nine page PDF of the printserver's
setup instructions takes 30 seconds before control returns, using Artworks.
 Using RiScript it takes 55 seconds but RiScript does seem to work in the
background so some control of the computer is available whilst printing is
under way.  Not to a very useful extent admittedly.

Under Windows the same process takes about three seconds before the
printing message disappears.  Much faster but then I'd expect that.

With pure text files the difference is miniscule.  Printing a 20 page file
from Impression takes no longer than printing the same file from OpenOffice
Writer.  Probably there's a few seconds in it but nothing really
noticeable.

For all this PS printing on the RPC is immensely quicker than printing
using the Laserjet drivers, not that I've tried for some 10 years now!

Alan

[Snip]

[Snip]

-- 
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.

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#4472

In article <52731b98c6see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>, Russell Hafter News
<URL:mailto:see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> In article <52730c9dc3alan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
>    Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > My main delight in using the Kyo as a PS printer is the
> > sheer speed at which I get control of the computer back
> > from the printer. Memory heavy print jobs seemed to take
> > ages when the Acorn drivers were used, in PS mode it takes
> > seconds at most.
> 
> Presumably the printer has a massive memory? Or are you
> talking about printing in the background?
> 
> I find PCL printing (under Windows) will print a document in
> seconds, maybe less, while PoScript can take minutes in
> terms of the time it takes for the data to get to the
> printer.

Strange. On RISC OS PostScript printing it generally quicker (As in
returning use of the computer to the user) and can be massively quicker if
there is a high proportion of jpegs. We have more than once thought that
PostScript printing has failed because we regained control so much earlier than the same document printed with PCL.


> Trouble is, again talking windows and the USB->parallel
> connection, that PCL printing often delivers corrupted
> prinouts, while PoScript is more likely to fail with no
> printing at all. There are times, though, when just part of
> the document prints.

Sounds like dodgy hardware, I've never seen this.
 
> From RISC OS there are no serious problems printing
> documents from RO applications, most of my Easiwriter
> documents produce PoScript files around 10x the document
> size, which take some 10 to 15s to print.
> 
> But some PDFs of quite a sensible size produce RO PoScript
> files of several MB and can take 30 minutes or more to
> print, while under Windows it is a few hundred KB

That shouldn't happen. I wonder if jpegs are being rendered on the RISC OS
computer rather than being passed on for rendering within the printer.
 
> But as I always print in the background, I have use of the
> computer after a couple of seconds anyway.

Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#4477

In message <ant201332bc8pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>
          Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <52731b98c6see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>, Russell Hafter News
> <URL:mailto:see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:

>> From RISC OS there are no serious problems printing
>> documents from RO applications, most of my Easiwriter
>> documents produce PoScript files around 10x the document
>> size, which take some 10 to 15s to print.
>> 
>> But some PDFs of quite a sensible size produce RO PoScript
>> files of several MB and can take 30 minutes or more to
>> print, while under Windows it is a few hundred KB

> That shouldn't happen. I wonder if jpegs are being rendered on the RISC OS
> computer rather than being passed on for rendering within the printer.

Yes, that is probably one part of the equation, but that depends very 
much on which application did the printing. There are several ways to 
print PDF files, but supposing Russell uses !PDF, then that is 
definitely the case: Any JPEGs in the PDF file are expanded to sprites 
by !PDF.

Things get much worse if the old PostScript 2 driver is used (instead 
of PostScript 3). In that case, if the PDF file happens to contain 
images with 256 colours or less you get several MB of data and the 
printer taking ages to print. 30 minutes is not unusual in that case.

Things get even worse if you use the PostScript 2 driver and switch 
the "Colour" option off. Then, the above applies to any image in the 
file. My old Brother HL-1270 printer refused to print practically any 
image that came from the PostScript 2 driver with "Colour" off.

-- 
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner         MW Software      http://www.mw-software.com/
        RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------

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#4480

In article <cbf7777352.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> wrote:

> Yes, that is probably one part of the equation, but that
> depends very much on which application did the printing.
> There are several ways to print PDF files, but supposing
> Russell uses !PDF,

he is.
:-(

> then that is definitely the case: Any JPEGs in the PDF
> file are expanded to sprites by !PDF.

> Things get much worse if the old PostScript 2 driver is
> used (instead of PostScript 3).

Unfortunately, the printer does not understand PostScript 3.
Another reason for buying a new printer once the toner level
gets low!

> In that case, if the PDF file happens to contain images
> with 256 colours or less you get several MB of data and
> the printer taking ages to print. 30 minutes is not
> unusual in that case.

> Things get even worse if you use the PostScript 2 driver
> and switch the "Colour" option off.

That one I knew about from when you gave this bit of advice
before.

> Then, the above applies to any image in the file. My old
> Brother HL-1270 printer refused to print practically any
> image that came from the PostScript 2 driver with
> "Colour" off.

-- 
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

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#4481

In article <cbf7777352.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin
Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> wrote:

> Yes, that is probably one part of the equation, but that
> depends very much on which application did the printing.
> There are several ways to print PDF files, but supposing
> Russell uses !PDF,

he is.
:-(

> then that is definitely the case: Any JPEGs in the PDF
> file are expanded to sprites by !PDF.

> Things get much worse if the old PostScript 2 driver is
> used (instead of PostScript 3).

Unfortunately, the printer does not understand PostScript 3.
Another reason for buying a new printer once the toner level
gets low!

> In that case, if the PDF file happens to contain images
> with 256 colours or less you get several MB of data and
> the printer taking ages to print. 30 minutes is not
> unusual in that case.

> Things get even worse if you use the PostScript 2 driver
> and switch the "Colour" option off.

That one I knew about from when you gave this bit of advice
before.

> Then, the above applies to any image in the file. My old
> Brother HL-1270 printer refused to print practically any
> image that came from the PostScript 2 driver with
> "Colour" off.

-- 
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

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#4486

In article <cbf7777352.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner
<URL:mailto:spamtrap@mw-software.com> wrote:
> In message <ant201332bc8pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>
>           Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > In article <52731b98c6see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>, Russell Hafter News
> > <URL:mailto:see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> 
> >> From RISC OS there are no serious problems printing
> >> documents from RO applications, most of my Easiwriter
> >> documents produce PoScript files around 10x the document
> >> size, which take some 10 to 15s to print.
> >> 
> >> But some PDFs of quite a sensible size produce RO PoScript
> >> files of several MB and can take 30 minutes or more to
> >> print, while under Windows it is a few hundred KB
> 
> > That shouldn't happen. I wonder if jpegs are being rendered on the RISC OS
> > computer rather than being passed on for rendering within the printer.
> 
> Yes, that is probably one part of the equation, but that depends very 
> much on which application did the printing. There are several ways to 
> print PDF files, but supposing Russell uses !PDF, then that is 
> definitely the case: Any JPEGs in the PDF file are expanded to sprites 
> by !PDF.
> 
> Things get much worse if the old PostScript 2 driver is used (instead 
> of PostScript 3). In that case, if the PDF file happens to contain 
> images with 256 colours or less you get several MB of data and the 
> printer taking ages to print. 30 minutes is not unusual in that case.
> 
> Things get even worse if you use the PostScript 2 driver and switch 
> the "Colour" option off. Then, the above applies to any image in the 
> file. My old Brother HL-1270 printer refused to print practically any 
> image that came from the PostScript 2 driver with "Colour" off.

Thanks for the info, I had thought as it involved PDF you would know the ins
and outs and would post!

Is there another way of printing PDF's that don't have !PDF's problem?
and does that solve PS2 & PS3 printing


Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#4450

In article <52730a345adave@triffid.co.uk>,
   Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <5272e736cfalan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
>    Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> [Snippy]

> > It may be that Dave's printer is only capable of printing at one
> > resolution so maybe he needs to look for an old Kyocera!

> Nope, it's capable of printing at 3 resolutions, and if using a HP
> LJ driver, it does 5 plus Economode, which according to the
> official manual does use LESS toner.

> Blimey, even with ancient RO Printers & Drivers it can do 3
> resolutions.

Dare I ask the question: can you not then just use a straightforward
RO printer driver rather than PostScript? 

I can't recall now whether your printer has a USB-only connection,
but I've certainly used a USB>Parallel cable from my W7 laptop to a
parallel HP5L printer. What's more I've even managed to do so using
CCs' TurboPrinters thanks to Ian Hamilton's help. Then all you need
to have done, I think, is set the printer up in Windows to print in
economy mode. 

Could you not even have 2 RO printer drivers? - one set to output to
the Windows <Printer> full-quality version and the other to a Windows
<Printer_Copy_2> which is set for Ecomode? If you did set up 2
Windows versions, then when using a Windows machine you could choose
instantly which quality you want by selecting the desired Windows
printer version in the initial Printers window.

You realise that these are musings of mine, not technical guidelines!

Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding   riscos@mdharding.org.uk

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#4451

In article <52730f5a41riscos@mdharding.org.uk>,
   M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <52730a345adave@triffid.co.uk>,
>    Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <5272e736cfalan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
> >    Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> > [Snippy]

> > > It may be that Dave's printer is only capable of printing at one
> > > resolution so maybe he needs to look for an old Kyocera!

> > Nope, it's capable of printing at 3 resolutions, and if using a HP
> > LJ driver, it does 5 plus Economode, which according to the
> > official manual does use LESS toner.

> > Blimey, even with ancient RO Printers & Drivers it can do 3
> > resolutions.

> Dare I ask the question: can you not then just use a straightforward
> RO printer driver rather than PostScript? 

Of course you can ask any question you like... I might not give you an
answer, but to illuminate for you...

That's what I'm doing, and have been doing from the start Michael.
I just reconfigured the old Acorn HP LJ driver to work through JetDirect.
It works, and so I still have the same resolutions as before, 150, 300,
600 and the Acorn driver does drive the print engine at those resolutions.

Somebody came along with the idea that I should be using a PS driver, so I
tested that idea out and found it lacking.

> I can't recall now whether your printer has a USB-only connection,
> but I've certainly used a USB>Parallel cable from my W7 laptop to a
> parallel HP5L printer. What's more I've even managed to do so using
> CCs' TurboPrinters thanks to Ian Hamilton's help. Then all you need
> to have done, I think, is set the printer up in Windows to print in
> economy mode. 

The printer can connect by either USB or Network, but as the whole point
of the exercise was to use it with all the computers in this house,
network connection to the LAN was the way to go, so we specifically bought
a more expensive model that had networking onboard.

> Could you not even have 2 RO printer drivers? - one set to output to
> the Windows <Printer> full-quality version and the other to a Windows
> <Printer_Copy_2> which is set for Ecomode? If you did set up 2
> Windows versions, then when using a Windows machine you could choose
> instantly which quality you want by selecting the desired Windows
> printer version in the initial Printers window.

That's what already exists here.
On RISCOS I have the Acorn HPLJ driver and the Acorn PS2 driver both on
the icon bar, configured and ready to use.

On the Windows side I have the official HP LJ driver for the 2050 series
printers, and I also have the HP universal PS driver installed and
configured, so I can swap from one to the other as I please.

> You realise that these are musings of mine, not technical guidelines!

Muse away...  ;-)

Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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#4454

In article <527311a079dave@triffid.co.uk>,
   Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52730f5a41riscos@mdharding.org.uk>,
>    M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <52730a345adave@triffid.co.uk>,
> >    Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <5272e736cfalan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
> > >    Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> > > [Snippy]

> > > > It may be that Dave's printer is only capable of printing at
> > > > one resolution so maybe he needs to look for an old Kyocera!

> > > Nope, it's capable of printing at 3 resolutions, and if using a
> > > HP LJ driver, it does 5 plus Economode, which according to the
> > > official manual does use LESS toner.

> > > Blimey, even with ancient RO Printers & Drivers it can do 3
> > > resolutions.

> > Dare I ask the question: can you not then just use a
> > straightforward RO printer driver rather than PostScript? 
[ . . . ]
> That's what I'm doing, and have been doing from the start Michael.

[ . . . ]

> > Could you not even have 2 RO printer drivers? - one set to output
> > to the Windows <Printer> full-quality version and the other to a
> > Windows <Printer_Copy_2> which is set for Ecomode? If you did set
> > up 2 Windows versions, then when using a Windows machine you
> > could choose instantly which quality you want by selecting the
> > desired Windows printer version in the initial Printers window.

> That's what already exists here. On RISCOS I have the Acorn HPLJ
> driver and the Acorn PS2 driver both on the icon bar, configured
> and ready to use.

> On the Windows side I have the official HP LJ driver for the 2050
> series printers, and I also have the HP universal PS driver
> installed and configured, so I can swap from one to the other as I
> please.

Dear Grandpa Triffid 
(whom I am attempting, as usual, to instruct in the art of sucking
eggs),

That's not quite what I meant. Not to choose between standard printing
and PostScript, but between 2 versions of standard printing.

I.e. configure one Windows printer version to be (say) 300 dpi or even
1200 dpi for full quality [I can never see the difference between 300
and 600 dpi]. 
Configure a second Windows printer version to Ecomode, giving that
another name, e.g. Version2. 
Then configure the RO printer on the iconbar to e.g. LJIV and set it
to call up the Ecomode version, and set up another RO printer to e.g.
LJ6 or whatever, to communicate with the Windows full-quality driver.
Then you can easily switch beween the 2 qualities by clicking on one
RO printer or the other.

Time for my cocoa, Grandpa. Suck the eggs nicely.

Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding   riscos@mdharding.org.uk

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#4461

In article <527316b440riscos@mdharding.org.uk>,
   M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <527311a079dave@triffid.co.uk>,

[Snippy]

> > That's what already exists here. On RISCOS I have the Acorn HPLJ
> > driver and the Acorn PS2 driver both on the icon bar, configured
> > and ready to use.

> > On the Windows side I have the official HP LJ driver for the 2050
> > series printers, and I also have the HP universal PS driver
> > installed and configured, so I can swap from one to the other as I
> > please.

> Dear Grandpa Triffid 
> (whom I am attempting, as usual, to instruct in the art of sucking
> eggs),

> That's not quite what I meant. Not to choose between standard printing
> and PostScript, but between 2 versions of standard printing.

> I.e. configure one Windows printer version to be (say) 300 dpi or even
> 1200 dpi for full quality [I can never see the difference between 300
> and 600 dpi]. 
> Configure a second Windows printer version to Ecomode, giving that
> another name, e.g. Version2. 
> Then configure the RO printer on the iconbar to e.g. LJIV and set it
> to call up the Ecomode version, and set up another RO printer to e.g.
> LJ6 or whatever, to communicate with the Windows full-quality driver.
> Then you can easily switch beween the 2 qualities by clicking on one
> RO printer or the other.

> Time for my cocoa, Grandpa. Suck the eggs nicely.

> Michael Harding

Dear Grandson ;-)

Erm! Michael, you seem to be making something simple quite difficult.

RISC OS side:

All I have to do is Shift + Select click over the Acorn LJ icon on the
icon bar, a dialogue window displays (Laserjet printer configuration) I
click the menu icon next to the Resolution box and select the required
resolution, 150,300,600  Click OK and away it will go.

So I only need one RO printer icon on the bar.

FWIW BTW. I can see the difference between 300 and 600.

MS Windows side:

I have a shortcut on the desktop that opens the Printer configuration
dialogue, a couple of clicks and an OK and off it goes at the new
resolution.

Thanks for your thoughts, most entertaining.  ;-)

Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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#4463

In article <52734af5e5dave@triffid.co.uk>,
   Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <527316b440riscos@mdharding.org.uk>,
>    M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <527311a079dave@triffid.co.uk>,

> [Snippy]

> > Dear Grandpa Triffid 
> > (whom I am attempting, as usual, to instruct in the art of sucking
> > eggs),
[ . . . ]
> Dear Grandson ;-)

> Erm! Michael, you seem to be making something simple quite
> difficult.

Doh!!  Back to the drawing board to start afresh.

Michael Harding
Rev. Preb. M.D. Harding   riscos@mdharding.org.uk

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#4471

In article <527311a079dave@triffid.co.uk>, Dave Symes
<URL:mailto:dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <52730f5a41riscos@mdharding.org.uk>,
>    M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> wrote:
> > In article <52730a345adave@triffid.co.uk>,
> >    Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <5272e736cfalan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
> > >    Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> > > [Snippy]
> 
> > > > It may be that Dave's printer is only capable of printing at one
> > > > resolution so maybe he needs to look for an old Kyocera!
> 
> > > Nope, it's capable of printing at 3 resolutions, and if using a HP
> > > LJ driver, it does 5 plus Economode, which according to the
> > > official manual does use LESS toner.
> 
> > > Blimey, even with ancient RO Printers & Drivers it can do 3
> > > resolutions.
> 
> > Dare I ask the question: can you not then just use a straightforward
> > RO printer driver rather than PostScript? 
> 
> Of course you can ask any question you like... I might not give you an
> answer, but to illuminate for you...
> 
> That's what I'm doing, and have been doing from the start Michael.
> I just reconfigured the old Acorn HP LJ driver to work through JetDirect.
> It works, and so I still have the same resolutions as before, 150, 300,
> 600 and the Acorn driver does drive the print engine at those resolutions.

RISC OS printer drivers have offered various resolutions since they were
introduced.
The advantages in using lower resolutions were that it was much quicker to
render (ARM 2's were slow) and the dot matrix/ink jet printer also had to do
fewer passes.
Now with much faster processors there is little advantage in speed (With
PostScript as the rendering is in the printer and the computer finishes
sending the data to the printer much quicker)

Also both PCL & PostScript printers work out the area to be filled with
toner and fill it fully unless there is an 'EconoMode' so no saving

So why do you want to be able to choose resolution, when there is no advantage?


Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#4488

In article <ant201317345pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
   Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]

> Also both PCL & PostScript printers work out the area to be filled with
> toner and fill it fully unless there is an 'EconoMode' so no saving

I do wish folks would stop saying that when it's patently not so.

I have two identical graphics here, one printed at 300 and the other at
600 dpi, when examined once printed, they are quite different in the
colour and depth of the grey, and more importantly the 300 image has a lot
less dots. Less dots = Less toner.

> So why do you want to be able to choose resolution, when there is no
> advantage?

> Chris Evans

There are a number of reasons...

1) Because I believe (And know) it saves toner when printing draft copies.

2) Because SWMBO handles the consumables management in our home office
also knows it save toner. (She does masses more printing that I ever do).

3) Because the evidence in front of my eyes says it saves toner.

4) Just to be a recalcitrant, and because of the above, just because I
want to.

Now that all over and done with.

Luv and kisses to everyone.

Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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#4490

In article <52738ccc05dave@triffid.co.uk>, Dave Symes
<URL:mailto:dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant201317345pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
>    Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> [Snippy]
> 
> > Also both PCL & PostScript printers work out the area to be filled with
> > toner and fill it fully unless there is an 'EconoMode' so no saving
> 
> I do wish folks would stop saying that when it's patently not so.
> 
> I have two identical graphics here, one printed at 300 and the other at
> 600 dpi, when examined once printed, they are quite different in the
> colour and depth of the grey, and more importantly the 300 image has a lot
> less dots. Less dots = Less toner.

Ah if that is the case it seems to be automatically selecting 'EconoMode'
Err.. actually this is very strange as far as I know, with PCL all the
rendering is done in the computer and the printer will not know that
printing is at a different resolution.
What printer are you using and what driver

I accept your printout is greyer/less toner but can't explain why, as changng
resolution shouldn't make a difference unless I've got something wrong.
 
> > So why do you want to be able to choose resolution, when there is no
> > advantage?
> 
> > Chris Evans
> 
> There are a number of reasons...
> 
> 1) Because I believe (And know) it saves toner when printing draft copies.
> 
> 2) Because SWMBO handles the consumables management in our home office
> also knows it save toner. (She does masses more printing that I ever do).
> 
> 3) Because the evidence in front of my eyes says it saves toner.
> 
> 4) Just to be a recalcitrant, and because of the above, just because I
> want to.
> 
> Now that all over and done with.


Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#4501

In article <ant211055868pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
   Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]

> Ah if that is the case it seems to be automatically selecting 'EconoMode'
> Err.. actually this is very strange as far as I know, with PCL all the
> rendering is done in the computer and the printer will not know that
> printing is at a different resolution.
> What printer are you using and what driver

No it's not automatically selecting Economode, for if I select that
manually from the Win Driver UI dialogue, the print really is Economode
and spotty.

From the RO side (Printers 1.91a) an Acorn HP Laserjet printer def file
(Was HP LaserJet 5) through JetDirect to the HP LaserJet P2055dn.

The three resolution settings in the (Icon bar icon) Shift + Select click
Configuration window, still address the printer and modify the output
accordingly. (as it did with the previous 16 year old HP-LJ).

And on the Win side Economode is Unticked.

> I accept your printout is greyer/less toner but can't explain why, as
> changng resolution shouldn't make a difference unless I've got something
> wrong.

Why shouldn't changing resolution change the amount of Toner/Ink being
used.

It's obvious and logical, less resolution= less density= less toner/ink.

It's even obvious when using the Epson Photo Inkjet.

This is all kind of academic really, as SWMBO want to print at two of the
possible resolutions, she does it mostly through RO, and I'm not going to
get in the way...

Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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#4505

In message <527413a10bdave@triffid.co.uk>
          Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> Why shouldn't changing resolution change the amount of Toner/Ink being
> used.

Because a lower resolution means a smaller number of larger dots,
using the same total amount of ink.

That's what it looks like on my Epson inkjet printer here, anyway.
More ink would result in a darker print - and higher resolution
doesn't.

I realise your mileage probably varies from mine.

Dave

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#4536

In article <527413a10bdave@triffid.co.uk>, Dave Symes
<URL:mailto:dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant211055868pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
>    Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> [Snippy]
> 
> > Ah if that is the case it seems to be automatically selecting 'EconoMode'
> > Err.. actually this is very strange as far as I know, with PCL all the
> > rendering is done in the computer and the printer will not know that
> > printing is at a different resolution.
> > What printer are you using and what driver
> 
> No it's not automatically selecting Economode, for if I select that
> manually from the Win Driver UI dialogue, the print really is Economode
> and spotty.
> 
> From the RO side (Printers 1.91a) an Acorn HP Laserjet printer def file
> (Was HP LaserJet 5) through JetDirect to the HP LaserJet P2055dn.
> 
> The three resolution settings in the (Icon bar icon) Shift + Select click
> Configuration window, still address the printer and modify the output
> accordingly. (as it did with the previous 16 year old HP-LJ).
> 
> And on the Win side Economode is Unticked.
> 
> > I accept your printout is greyer/less toner but can't explain why, as
> > changng resolution shouldn't make a difference unless I've got something
> > wrong.
> 
> Why shouldn't changing resolution change the amount of Toner/Ink being
> used.
> 
> It's obvious and logical, less resolution= less density= less toner/ink.

I see what you mean but AIUI HP PCL printing (which is what all HP Laserjet
drivers use) uses vector formats for the outlines of everything inc. text
and 'fills' between the outlines, like !Draw. 
Say you are displaying a filled circle changing the screen resolution will
change how smooth the edge's appear but the centre will always be a solid
black. Text is the same on 'O' is effectively a filled circe with another
smaller filled in white circle.

I'm sure Martin can explain it better than me, and may now why you are
getting the effect you are.
 
> It's even obvious when using the Epson Photo Inkjet.

With Inkjet that is more expected as that does things slightly differently.
 
> This is all kind of academic really, as SWMBO want to print at two of the
> possible resolutions, she does it mostly through RO, and I'm not going to
> get in the way...

I'm just intrigued, if we can work out why is it happening other people may
be able to take advantage of the toner saving.

p.s. I've just printed out using an HP Laserjet 6 RISC OS driver (PCL) to an
HP4100 some black text and a filled 1cm circle. One page each at: 150, 300 &
600 DPI. Looking at it under an eye glass The edges varied in jaggedness as
expected but the black areas were all solid with the same level of black.

I'd be interested to see some samples of your print.

Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#4541

In article <ant221749313pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
   Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
> I'd be interested to see some samples of your print.

> Chris Evans

I have your address, at the weekend I'll print out something and send it
to you.

Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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