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Groups > comp.sys.acorn.misc > #3544 > unrolled thread
| Started by | davehigton <davehigton14@googlemail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-02-03 01:19 -0800 |
| Last post | 2012-02-20 13:37 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 161 — 40 participants |
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ARM embedded stuff davehigton <davehigton14@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-03 01:19 -0800
Re: ARM embedded stuff Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavariasound@chiemgau-net.de> - 2012-02-04 22:05 -0800
Re: ARM embedded stuff Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> - 2012-02-07 20:03 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Fred Bambrough <fred@[127.0.0.1]> - 2012-02-07 20:22 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Folderol <folderol@ukfsn.org> - 2012-02-07 21:01 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Graham Pickles <graham@durain.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-08 10:41 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-02-08 11:01 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-08 14:01 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Folderol <folderol@ukfsn.org> - 2012-02-08 14:43 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-08 20:38 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-02-08 20:56 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2012-02-08 22:03 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-08 21:49 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-02-09 06:49 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-09 10:04 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-10 11:35 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Bob Seago <rjseago@gmail.com> - 2012-02-09 17:45 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff jgharston <jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 14:58 -0800
Re: ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 09:53 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "David Holden" <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 10:28 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff jgharston <jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 12:10 -0800
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 22:34 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-02-13 21:52 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff JTM <usenetbin@free.fr> - 2012-02-14 11:24 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff jgharston <jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-16 09:15 -0800
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 01:38 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> - 2012-02-17 00:53 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 06:45 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 08:05 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 12:28 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> - 2012-02-17 13:47 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> - 2012-02-17 15:48 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-02-17 08:54 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 12:48 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-02-19 13:48 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-02-14 07:14 +0000
Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-15 20:54 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-15 23:37 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-16 11:02 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-16 11:25 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 01:10 +0100
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 00:47 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 11:04 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 00:00 +0100
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 12:11 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Bryn Evans <d@a.invalid> - 2012-02-17 16:38 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 17:06 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 19:04 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 14:17 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-02-18 04:11 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 09:09 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 10:21 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff workstuff@mail.com - 2012-02-18 14:11 +0100
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 16:03 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff NedA <news@ned.uk.invalid> - 2012-02-18 17:28 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 15:09 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-02-26 23:35 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-27 23:07 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-27 23:44 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-27 23:46 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-27 23:54 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 08:18 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-02-28 02:11 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "David Holden" <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 07:25 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 09:34 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-02-28 11:59 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 09:15 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2012-02-28 09:38 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 10:38 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2012-02-28 11:05 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 11:14 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 12:07 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Chris Shepheard <chris.shepheard@chrispics.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 19:33 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 20:13 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-29 05:44 +0100
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff ff <ff@mdharding.org.uk> - 2012-02-29 10:41 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-29 11:37 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> - 2012-02-29 22:24 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-03-01 02:12 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-03-01 04:14 +0100
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2012-03-08 14:34 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-03-01 03:31 +0100
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-03-01 05:04 +0100
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff NedA <news@ned.uk.invalid> - 2012-03-01 08:43 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-03-01 03:31 +0100
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 11:44 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-02-28 18:53 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 12:09 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 13:11 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 14:02 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 15:19 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 16:39 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 18:08 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 22:02 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 22:58 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 15:06 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 16:15 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 18:45 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 20:19 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 21:36 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-29 01:25 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-29 11:18 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff "David Holden" <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 20:26 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 21:40 +0000
Re: Electric heating: was ARM embedded stuff Barry Gray <barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-02-28 15:20 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 12:16 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "David Holden" <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 12:42 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 13:52 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 14:43 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 15:26 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 17:43 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 18:56 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff jgharston <jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 12:14 -0800
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 22:49 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff Folderol <folderol@ukfsn.org> - 2012-02-14 01:01 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff jgharston <jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-16 09:21 -0800
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-17 01:25 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-10 12:54 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 07:00 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 10:43 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 12:11 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 13:37 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-02-12 14:59 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 15:27 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 15:54 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Philip Draper <Philip@borehamh.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 15:18 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff OT T M Smith <thomas.smith57@ntlworld.com> - 2012-02-12 17:45 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 15:11 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 15:47 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Carroll <bric-nospam@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 15:01 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2012-02-19 13:38 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 14:02 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 16:47 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 21:43 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 22:07 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 22:55 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 23:16 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 00:03 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 02:16 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 10:25 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 14:06 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Bruce Goatly" <ss4@goatly.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 10:41 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 06:26 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 01:57 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2012-02-20 08:45 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 09:31 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> - 2012-02-20 20:51 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 18:35 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff Folderol <folderol@ukfsn.org> - 2012-02-19 17:50 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 19:19 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 19:21 +0100
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 19:01 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-19 18:59 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 08:06 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 10:36 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 14:04 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 14:37 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 15:57 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff davehigton <davehigton14@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-09 03:20 -0800
Re: ARM embedded stuff Folderol <folderol@ukfsn.org> - 2012-02-09 17:36 +0000
Re: ARM embedded stuff Jim Nagel <jimnewsm10d@abbeypress.co.uk> - 2012-02-20 13:37 +0000
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| From | Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 12:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <526058c93ebbailey@argonet.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3585 |
In article <526050b373dave@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > In article <52603c527abbailey@argonet.co.uk>, > Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > > > If you have replaced an older one with a condensing boiler, they run > > > at a slightly lower temperature for the condensing mode. This may > > > mean increasing the radiator sizes if the originals were marginal. > > > But after this you'll still get the benefit of a much more efficient > > > boiler which uses less gas for the same heat output. Maybe as much > > > as 20%. > > According to my builder/plumber friends you also get a very much > > reduced boiler life with condensing boilers compared with the expected > > life of the older cast iron boilers. > Depends very much on the quality of the one you buy. OK, but the cheapest last about 3 years, so I'm told. The dearer ones last longer due to better construction and materials, but the condensate in either case is acidic, leading to early failure. > But the life of any boiler only expires when spare parts are no longer > available. Different concept from the life to failure from deterioration, I'm afraid. It doesn't suddenly stop working because it's just become obsolescent. Bit like human beings, really. 8-) > Condensing boilers are more complicated than older ones, which needs > more skill when fault finding. Umm, come on, there's nothing desperately clever or complicated about them - they're only heat exchangers after all. In any event in practice it's a bit like your car main dealer, keep throwing bits away and replacing them until it works properly again. 8-) > Sadly, electronics (and electrics, come to that) are likely to be a > black art for most repair types.
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| From | "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 13:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5260609e6ddave@davenoise.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3587 |
In article <526058c93ebbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > According to my builder/plumber friends you also get a very much
> > > reduced boiler life with condensing boilers compared with the
> > > expected life of the older cast iron boilers.
> > Depends very much on the quality of the one you buy.
> OK, but the cheapest last about 3 years, so I'm told.
Wouldn't know. Buying the cheapest is rarely best value. Same applied to
older basic boilers.
> The dearer ones
> last longer due to better construction and materials, but the condensate
> in either case is acidic, leading to early failure.
You use materials that are acid resistant - like stainless steel. The
material costs are tiny as part of the overall costs of the unit. But of
course makers charge what the market will stand.
> > But the life of any boiler only expires when spare parts are no longer
> > available.
> Different concept from the life to failure from deterioration, I'm
> afraid. It doesn't suddenly stop working because it's just become
> obsolescent.
No, its useful life ends when it fails and cannot be repaired. Or rather
with most when the service man *says* it cannot be repaired. And they
often mistaken or lie.
> Bit like human beings, really. 8-)
> > Condensing boilers are more complicated than older ones, which needs
> > more skill when fault finding.
> Umm, come on, there's nothing desperately clever or complicated about
> them - they're only heat exchangers after all. In any event in practice
> it's a bit like your car main dealer, keep throwing bits away and
> replacing them until it works properly again. 8-)
A decent one has the same sort of differences as cars. Once cars had near
mechanical ignition and a simple carb. Now they have electronic ignition
and injection. Boilers are the same. But you're right in that many repair
men can't properly fault find - they just sprinkle new parts until the
fault is fixed.
> > Sadly, electronics (and electrics, come to that) are likely to be a
> > black art for most repair types.
--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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| From | Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 14:59 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5260682e2esee.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> |
| In reply to | #3588 |
In article <5260609e6ddave@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > In article <526058c93ebbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian > Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > > > > According to my builder/plumber friends you also > > > > get a very much reduced boiler life with condensing > > > > boilers compared with the expected life of the > > > > older cast iron boilers. > > > Depends very much on the quality of the one you buy. > > OK, but the cheapest last about 3 years, so I'm told. Mine is nearly nine years old, and has had one parts failure in that time. Otherwise no signs of old age. Though te old-fashioned 1981 vintage simple boiler I had installed in Scotland was still going strong when I sold up in 1992, in spite of just one major service when I put the flat out to rent in 1990. > Wouldn't know. Buying the cheapest is rarely best value. > Same applied to older basic boilers. > > The dearer ones last longer due to better construction > > and materials, but the condensate in either case is > > acidic, leading to early failure. Why should it be acidic? It is, after all, distilled water. -- Russell http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>
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| From | Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 15:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52606abedfSpambin@argonet.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3589 |
In article <5260682e2esee.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>, Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote: > Why should it be acidic? It is, after all, distilled water. The condensate comes from one of the products of combustion - water. Other products of combustion include Carbon Dioxide, which dissolves in water to produce Carbonic acid, and Sulphur Dioxide - guess what that produces when it dissolves in water! Sulphur is always present to some degree in natural gas as it is in petrol, diesel &c Oh and as a one time industrial chemist, who worked in a lab where we had our own still for producing distilled water, I can assure you the distillate was always on the acidic side of neutral. -- Stuart Winsor Only plain text for emails http://www.asciiribbon.org
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| From | Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 15:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52606d2e7abbailey@argonet.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3592 |
> > Why should it be acidic? It is, after all, distilled water. > The condensate comes from one of the products of combustion - water. > Other products of combustion include Carbon Dioxide, which dissolves in > water to produce Carbonic acid, and Sulphur Dioxide - guess what that > produces when it dissolves in water! Sulphur is always present to some > degree in natural gas as it is in petrol, diesel &c Indeed! The idea is that the boiler efficiency is maximised by reducing the flue gas discharge temperature to a minimum. In consequence the flue gas temperature is at dew point. It's loony idea because the cost of replacement boilers isn't taken into consideration. No industrial boiler installation would be acceptable based on that design concept. It would be completely uneconomic because massive damage would be sustained by flu gas discharge systems - through acid attack on chimney linings and the like. Remember coal fired power stations and the sulphuric acid rain fall out in Scandinavia. > Oh and as a one time industrial chemist, who worked in a lab where we > had our own still for producing distilled water, I can assure you the > distillate was always on the acidic side of neutral.
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| From | Philip Draper <Philip@borehamh.demon.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 15:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <87e8696052.Philip@borehamh.demon.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3589 |
In message <5260682e2esee.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>
Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
> In article <5260609e6ddave@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman
> (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <526058c93ebbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian
>> Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> According to my builder/plumber friends you also
>>>>> get a very much reduced boiler life with condensing
>>>>> boilers compared with the expected life of the
>>>>> older cast iron boilers.
>>>> Depends very much on the quality of the one you buy.
>>> OK, but the cheapest last about 3 years, so I'm told.
> Mine is nearly nine years old, and has had one parts failure
> in that time. Otherwise no signs of old age.
> Though te old-fashioned 1981 vintage simple boiler I had
> installed in Scotland was still going strong when I sold up
> in 1992, in spite of just one major service when I put the
> flat out to rent in 1990.
>> Wouldn't know. Buying the cheapest is rarely best value.
>> Same applied to older basic boilers.
>>> The dearer ones last longer due to better construction
>>> and materials, but the condensate in either case is
>>> acidic, leading to early failure.
> Why should it be acidic? It is, after all, distilled water.
Dissolved flue gases - carbon dioxide mainly, but some sulphur dioxide
(the smell added to natural gas is a sulphur compound). Possibly some
other acidic substances formed in the flame e.g oxides of nitrogen.
Philip.
--
Philip Draper
Philip@borehamh.demon.co.uk
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| From | T M Smith <thomas.smith57@ntlworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 17:45 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ARM embedded stuff OT |
| Message-ID | <d45a776052.Broadband@thomas.smith57.virginmedia.com> |
| In reply to | #3589 |
In message <5260682e2esee.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>
Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>
wrote:
> In article <5260609e6ddave@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman
> (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <526058c93ebbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian
>> Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> According to my builder/plumber friends you also
>>>>> get a very much reduced boiler life with condensing
>>>>> boilers compared with the expected life of the
>>>>> older cast iron boilers.
I have just changed my condensing boiler; it was 20 yrs old.
I was concerned that the efficiency was reducing since the alloy heat
exchanger fins had all but corroded away (acidic condensate from
burning gas?)
New condensing boiler fitted does not appear any more efficient though
difficult to be absolutely sure.
At 12 years old it was out of commission for several weeks during
winter due to a gasket failure;no spares were available.
Both the plumber and I chased the manufacturer who had to have some
made.
Being cautious I obtained a spare which I have never needed
My neighbours cast iron boiler lasted 35 years but obviously at lower
efficiency
[snip]
--
T M Smith
Using an Iyonix and RISC OS 5.16 in the North Riding of Yorkshire
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| From | Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 15:11 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52606942efbbailey@argonet.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3588 |
Hi Dave > > The dearer ones last longer due to better construction and materials, > > but the condensate in either case is acidic, leading to early failure. > You use materials that are acid resistant - like stainless steel. Couldn't resist picking up on that one, Dave. Acid resistant not the same as acid proof. I remember my metallurgy lecturer saying something to the effect that boiling strawberry jam does horrible things to stainless steel. Then again, there's stainless steel and there's stainless steel. There are cheap stainless steels that are just crap. > The material costs are tiny as part of the overall costs of the unit. > But of course makers charge what the market will stand. Or more than the market will stand. Depends how desperate you are for whatever - and they know it! [snip] > > Umm, come on, there's nothing desperately clever or complicated about > > them - they're only heat exchangers after all. In any event in > > practice it's a bit like your car main dealer, keep throwing bits away > > and replacing them until it works properly again. 8-) > A decent one has the same sort of differences as cars. Once cars had > near mechanical ignition and a simple carb. Now they have electronic > ignition and injection. Boilers are the same. But you're right in that > many repair men can't properly fault find - they just sprinkle new parts > until the fault is fixed. Yeah, just keep going until the customer shouts. Cheers Brian
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| From | "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 15:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52606c8db1dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3590 |
In article <52606942efbbailey@argonet.co.uk>,
Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > You use materials that are acid resistant - like stainless steel.
> Couldn't resist picking up on that one, Dave. Acid resistant not the
> same as acid proof. I remember my metallurgy lecturer saying something
> to the effect that boiling strawberry jam does horrible things to
> stainless steel.
It would depend on the acid too. Not all acids are the same. ;-)
> Then again, there's stainless steel and there's stainless steel. There
> are cheap stainless steels that are just crap.
Well, decent boilers seem to have SS heat exchangers, so I'd guess that's
chosen to be resistant to the acids found in the condensate. The actual
flue can be plastic due to the low temperature.
> > The material costs are tiny as part of the overall costs of the unit.
> > But of course makers charge what the market will stand.
> Or more than the market will stand. Depends how desperate you are for
> whatever - and they know it!
Snag is most go for what their installer recommends. He may choose what he
knows is easy to install - and may even be given a larger discount based
on the number sold. Etc.
--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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| From | Brian Carroll <bric-nospam@argonet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-12 15:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52606853debric-nospam@argonet.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3588 |
In article <5260609e6ddave@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > In article <526058c93ebbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote: [...] > But you're right in that many repair men can't properly fault > find - they just sprinkle new parts until the fault is fixed. > > > Sadly, electronics (and electrics, come to that) are > > > likely to be a black art for most repair types. The ones I have experienced in the context of this thread have been unaware of the excellent fault-finding tree included in the manufacturer's service instructions. The 'Gas-safe' qualified man who deigned to carry out my last boiler (non-condensing) service made no reference to the manufacturer's service schedule, omitted several tests, and did not have the gas analyser needed to diagnose faulty combustion. He did however provide an expensive signature to 'prove' the service had been completed and the boiler is safe. Brian. -- ______________________________________________________________ Brian Carroll, Ripon, North Yorkshire, UK ______________________________________________________________
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| From | Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-19 13:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5263fba2cbtim@invalid.org.uk> |
| In reply to | #3588 |
In article <5260609e6ddave@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > Once cars had near mechanical ignition and a simple carb. Which can be easily repaired/replaced. Even from a tip. > Now they have > electronic ignition and injection. ...and when the MMU blows up, you find that a new one costs more than replacing the car with a better one. You wouldn't source one of those from a high-mileage wreck. So, that's it? Someone mentions a car analogy and the thread's over? -- Tim Hill of timil.com . . . * supports TFT & shares in cheaper ethical telecoms http://tjrh.eu/phone * has a genuine & spam-proof address for Usenet http://www.invalid.org.uk/ * accepts incoming email: substitute postmaster@ for tim@ ... "Sleep dwell upon thy eyes, peace in thy breast" Rom & Jul, Act ii, Sc.2
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| From | "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-19 14:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5263fdcfc7dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3712 |
In article <5263fba2cbtim@invalid.org.uk>,
Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <5260609e6ddave@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)
> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > Once cars had near mechanical ignition and a simple carb.
> Which can be easily repaired/replaced. Even from a tip.
Which you had to do frequently.
> > Now they have
> > electronic ignition and injection.
> ...and when the MMU blows up, you find that a new one costs more than
> replacing the car with a better one. You wouldn't source one of those
> from a high-mileage wreck.
If you mean the ECU, failure is rare. But that doesn't stop the average
garage 'diagnosing' it as at fault when it is far more likely to be a
(cheap) sensor.
> So, that's it? Someone mentions a car analogy and the thread's over?
I suppose the only relation to on topic is our RPCs seem to last near
forever and are a great deal more complex than a car ECU. So it can be
done.
--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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| From | Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-19 16:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52640cded4bbailey@argonet.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3715 |
> > > Once cars had near mechanical ignition and a simple carb. > > Which can be easily repaired/replaced. Even from a tip. > Which you had to do frequently. > > > Now they have > > > electronic ignition and injection. > > ...and when the MMU blows up, you find that a new one costs more than > > replacing the car with a better one. You wouldn't source one of those > > from a high-mileage wreck. > If you mean the ECU, failure is rare. But that doesn't stop the average > garage 'diagnosing' it as at fault when it is far more likely to be a > (cheap) sensor. Failure maybe rare, badly programmed and inherently faulty is another ball game entirely. I will *never* buy another French car of a certain make. A particular vehicle that I owned wasn't wired up correctly and repeatedly indicated fault codes that could not be resolved by three main agents, in turn. It was actually dangerous and elicited the weirdest most unpredictable behaviour. > > So, that's it? Someone mentions a car analogy and the thread's over? > I suppose the only relation to on topic is our RPCs seem to last near > forever and are a great deal more complex than a car ECU. So it can be > done.
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| From | Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-19 21:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5264280363Spambin@argonet.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3718 |
In article <52640cded4bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > Failure maybe rare, badly programmed and inherently faulty is another > ball game entirely. I will *never* buy another French car of a certain > make. A particular vehicle that I owned wasn't wired up correctly and > repeatedly indicated fault codes that could not be resolved by three > main agents, in turn. It was actually dangerous and elicited the > weirdest most unpredictable behaviour. When I lost my old Espace on black ice three years ago, (Simple mechanical diesel, I think the only "computer" was in the radio) the guy who hauled it up the embackment onto the road made comments about French cars. He said neither he or any of the other guys he knew in the recovery business would ever buy a french car because of unreliable electrics. That had an achillies heel too, as I found out. A fuse in the battery circuit which, when it failed, killed /everthing/ electrical leaving you with no engine, no power, no lights, no indicators, not even hazard flashers. In my case it corroded which which caused two complete dead stops but was intermittant so on both occassions it restarted after a moment or three. Took me a little while to find it. -- Stuart Winsor Only plain text for emails http://www.asciiribbon.org
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| From | charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-19 22:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52642a2feacharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3727 |
In article <5264280363Spambin@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > In article <52640cded4bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, > Brian Bailey <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > > Failure maybe rare, badly programmed and inherently faulty is another > > ball game entirely. I will *never* buy another French car of a certain > > make. A particular vehicle that I owned wasn't wired up correctly and > > repeatedly indicated fault codes that could not be resolved by three > > main agents, in turn. It was actually dangerous and elicited the > > weirdest most unpredictable behaviour. > When I lost my old Espace on black ice three years ago, (Simple mechanical > diesel, I think the only "computer" was in the radio) the guy who hauled > it up the embackment onto the road made comments about French cars. He > said neither he or any of the other guys he knew in the recovery business > would ever buy a french car because of unreliable electrics. I've had a Citroen C5 for just under 10 years. I don't know about "unreliable electrics". -- From KT24 Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16
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| From | Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-19 22:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52642e97b7alan_calder@o2.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3728 |
In article <52642a2feacharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk>, charles <charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In article <5264280363Spambin@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart > <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > > In article <52640cded4bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > > <bbailey@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > > > Failure maybe rare, badly programmed and inherently faulty is > > > another ball game entirely. I will *never* buy another French car of > > > a certain make. A particular vehicle that I owned wasn't wired up > > > correctly and repeatedly indicated fault codes that could not be > > > resolved by three main agents, in turn. It was actually dangerous > > > and elicited the weirdest most unpredictable behaviour. > > When I lost my old Espace on black ice three years ago, (Simple > > mechanical diesel, I think the only "computer" was in the radio) the > > guy who hauled it up the embackment onto the road made comments about > > French cars. He said neither he or any of the other guys he knew in > > the recovery business would ever buy a french car because of > > unreliable electrics. > I've had a Citroen C5 for just under 10 years. I don't know about > "unreliable electrics". Ditto since 2002. Mine's been to the Chinese border and back without a murmur from the electronics in over 150,000 miles in my ownership. That it limps a bit is no fault of the car but a result of my not noticing a huge hole in the road in Kazakhstan. There's a tradition of English mechanics being afraid of French cars - I first heard it back in the 1960's when British cars could be repaired with a hammer and an adjustable spanner. Cheers Alan -- Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
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| From | "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-19 23:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <5264307d1bdave@davenoise.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3729 |
In article <52642e97b7alan_calder@o2.co.uk>,
Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote:
> There's a tradition of English mechanics being afraid of French cars - I
> first heard it back in the 1960's when British cars could be repaired
> with a hammer and an adjustable spanner.
There's a traditions of UK garages just saying the first thing that comes
into their head - if it jacks the costs up. It's the most dishonest trade
in the UK.
--
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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| From | Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-20 00:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <526434d47aSpambin@argonet.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3729 |
In article <52642e97b7alan_calder@o2.co.uk>, Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> wrote: > > I've had a Citroen C5 for just under 10 years. I don't know about > > "unreliable electrics". > Ditto since 2002. Mine's been to the Chinese border and back without a > murmur from the electronics in over 150,000 miles in my ownership. That it > limps a bit is no fault of the car but a result of my not noticing a huge > hole in the road in Kazakhstan. Once upon a time my father had a Citroen GS. Loads of trouble with the suspension and near impossible to get at spark plugs. I swore I would never own a Citroen. More recently, a friend with a Renault Kangoo, he sold it after two ECUs and a new wiring loom. When I was researching my replacemnt, the internet reviews were full of complaints about Renault/Citroen and not a few about Vauxhall, Ford and VW too. I bought a Toyota -- Stuart Winsor Only plain text for emails http://www.asciiribbon.org
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| From | Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-20 02:16 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <almarsoft.7739448076883358980@news.orange.fr> |
| In reply to | #3731 |
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 00:03:41 +0000 (GMT), Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote: > I bought a Toyota Would this be the same Toyota that had to recall sticking accelerator pedals, after a previous fix thinking it was the floor mat... wasn't? Or the same Toyota that had faulty software in an anti-lock brake system? The level of recall adding up to some 9 *MILLION*? Bad crap can happen. To a French car, to a Japanese car, or to anybody that owns a Pinto... Lots of sociopolitical reasons I can't be bothered mentioning, suffice to say that most of us take devices engineered to fine tolerances within a specific budget and time frame and hurl them along roads at 70mph or so, with other people doing likewise and cars and minds in all sorts of states of repair. It's one of the most useful things we do, but also perhaps one of the most stupid at the same time. A momentary lapse of judgment by one of those involved in the game and everything you hoped you could be could cease in a heartbeat. Happy motoring! ;-) Best wishes, Rick.
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| From | "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-02-20 10:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <52646dc5c7dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #3731 |
In article <526434d47aSpambin@argonet.co.uk>,
Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> When I was researching my replacemnt, the internet reviews were full of
> complaints about Renault/Citroen and not a few about Vauxhall, Ford and
> VW too. I bought a Toyota
Most modern cars are pretty reliable. To get a true picture of reliability
you need to know what *percentage* had faults. Internet searching doesn't
usually give this.
I tend to buy a car I like. Of course reliability comes into it - but it's
not the only thing.
The other point is getting a car repaired efficiently is as much a gamble
as getting anything else repaired in this throw away age. Proper mechanics
who can diagnose faults are a thing of the past - they all rely on the car
doing it for them, and how well they do this is very variable.
--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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