Re: random passwords

From	Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups	alt.os.linux, comp.os.linux.misc, comp.security.misc
Subject	Re: random passwords
Date	2018-08-24 12:41 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<plpcfr$5il$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(10 earlier) <plnpvr$m2h$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <plonfi$v8i$1@dont-email.me> <ploo69$3k1$1@dont-email.me> <plou5n$8l6$1@dont-email.me> <plov0k$dp9$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Chris Elvidge wrote:
> On 24/08/2018 13:37, Paul wrote:
>> Chris Elvidge wrote:
>>> On 24/08/2018 11:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 24/08/18 03:13, Grant Taylor wrote:
>>>>> On 08/23/2018 07:32 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> What does 'truly random' mean though?
>>>>>
>>>>> I can not define it, but I do believe that there are a number of 
>>>>> good definitions of what random is.  Especially if you ask 
>>>>> cryptologists.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would start by pointing you Bruce Schneier's direction.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> There are random sequences yes, but any single instance cannot be 
>>>> considered random. Surely?
>>>>
>>>> You ask for a random integer between 0 and 100 and I say '35', 
>>>> That's neither random nor not.
>>>>
>>>> If you ask me 100 times and I always say 35, then thats NOT radnom.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Its the same facile argument as is applied to the unlikelihood of 
>>>> THIS universe. As opposed to any other.
>>>>
>>>> Random is the wrong adjective. We are talking unguessabillity.
>>>>
>>>> is 999999999 a 'random password'?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you dont KNOW that is all the same integer,  it is.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Does this help?
>>>
>>> A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates
>>> https://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1418.html
>>
>> The best part ? The PDF is created by scanning the
>> printed edition :-) You cannot copy and paste the contents
>> if you actually needed some random digits. You would have
>> to type your random digits in, by hand. Yarrh.
>>
>> 34,882,794 bytes (to carry a million random digits).
>>
>> https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1418/MR1418.digits.pdf 
>>
>>
>> T A B L E O F RANOOM DlGlTS 35
>> 01700 93880 30067 11137 06696 77494 27526 88922 57619 02337 86662
>> 01701 76692 57656 99298 30095 02558 82919 25651 28120 23522 66263
>> 01702 04424 76978 71903 75842 31784 80399 93582 73670 02739 94643
>> 01703 88242 36928 66833 09970 17683 06931 09337 01020 31477 68849
>> 01704 21698 00855 90324 64854 64085 99148 84241 99699 85404 28371
>> 01705 78731 32497 56331 38406 98132 99669 25402 47197 09682 33835
>> 01706 82808 34677 71302 75892 49462 10275 i'3918 67115 20224 44925
>> 01707 99669 97878 35554 87900 04135 40700 02766 17443 09538 98772
>> 01708 08085 66902 45228 63702 97678 84155 53760 98409 65789 90750
>> 01709 49333 93906 43205 93404 16765 15665 32425 09293 00513 06712
>> 01710 19727 21123 06113 87759 71520 00040 93197 87436 09712 99234
>> 01711 08322 30093 19533 71269 82284 56203 89683 72041 33476 71856
>> 01712 06408 41290 36686 99287 18048 11168 90761 39183 93279 37994
>> 01713 18310 33376 12655 07615 59982 87924 93692 61118 36910 49622
>> 01714 97474 78227 28139 89395 60111 20995 11236 57144 90898 34917
>> 01715 39982 67482 78091 79694 00970 13710 64101 16277 07816 13879
>> 01716 28006 54888 78643 68059 67424 26880 63383 26194 97576 84261
>> 01717 45645 49941 04369 70130 94352 40112 43857 23164 47664 99511
>> 01718 13472 43394 03599 73615 49058 58048 80515 06741 56118 75052
>> 01719 27850 25453 21032 29743 48509 21267 03681 74642 67082 11904
>>
>> The OCR works as well as you'd expect.
>>
>> And amazingly, I selected four consecutive groups of digits
>> from that sample, and Google found this for me using them
>> as a search term.
>>
>> 1,440,000 bytes
>>
>> http://mattmahoney.net/iq/digits.txt
>>
>> 01706   82808 34677  71302 75892  49462 10275  73918 67115  20224 44925
>>
>> *******
>>
>> The CRC Math tables book used to have such a table too.
>> Probably a smaller table.
>>
>>     Paul
>>
> 
> Why didn't you download the text version (in zip file format)?
> https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1418/MR1418.digits.txt.zip 
> 
> and
> https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1418/MR1418.deviates.txt.zip 

I've had a lot of trouble the last couple days, with getting
useful results in Google search. This search was a test run,
to see whether the search could find anything. Random number
strings like this prove there's still a repository of note
at Google. Too bad it doesn't work for other searches
I try. In some ways, Google for me is as bad as Bing-derived
searches (lucky if you get one page of results).

    Paul

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random passwords Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-08-23 14:05 +0000
  Re: random passwords Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2018-08-23 09:47 -0500
    Re: random passwords Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-08-24 10:16 +0200
      Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-24 11:46 +0100
        Re: random passwords Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2018-08-24 09:19 -0400
        Re: random passwords Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-08-25 21:57 +1000
          Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-25 13:32 +0100
  Re: random passwords Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-23 15:50 +0100
    Re: random passwords Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-08-23 16:40 +0000
      Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-23 17:12 +0000
      Re: random passwords Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-23 18:49 +0100
        Re: random passwords Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-09-01 13:45 +0000
          Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-09-01 15:02 +0000
          Re: random passwords Allodoxaphobia <knock_yourself_out@example.net> - 2018-09-01 16:54 +0000
          Re: random passwords Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-04 07:37 +0100
  Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-23 15:12 +0000
    Re: random passwords Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2018-08-23 12:49 -0400
      Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-23 17:18 +0000
        Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-23 17:27 +0000
          Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-23 17:44 +0000
    Re: random passwords Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-08-23 12:38 -0600
      Re: random passwords Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-08-23 12:47 -0600
        Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-24 02:20 +0000
        Re: random passwords Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2018-08-24 05:10 +0000
      Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-24 02:32 +0100
        Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-24 01:56 +0000
          Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-24 11:37 +0100
        Re: random passwords Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-08-23 20:13 -0600
          Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-24 11:42 +0100
            Re: random passwords Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> - 2018-08-24 11:55 +0100
              Re: random passwords Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-08-24 08:37 -0400
                Re: random passwords Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> - 2018-08-24 13:51 +0100
                Re: random passwords Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-08-24 12:41 -0400
            Re: random passwords not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2018-08-25 02:03 +0000
              Re: random passwords Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2018-08-25 11:32 +0100
              Re: random passwords Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-08-25 07:49 -0400
                Re: random passwords not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2018-08-27 23:12 +0000
                Re: random passwords not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2018-08-27 23:40 +0000
                Re: random passwords Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2018-08-27 20:10 -0400
                Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-28 00:17 +0000
                Re: random passwords Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2018-08-27 20:52 -0400
                Re: random passwords John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-27 22:31 -0500
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-28 10:23 +0100
                Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-28 14:45 +0000
                Re: random passwords not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2018-08-28 23:00 +0000
                Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-29 01:22 +0000
                Re: random passwords not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2018-08-29 07:21 +0000
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-29 11:37 +0100
                Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-29 12:25 +0000
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-29 19:35 +0100
                Re: random passwords John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-29 17:46 -0500
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-30 06:53 +0100
                Re: random passwords John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-30 07:48 -0500
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-30 19:07 +0100
                Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-31 00:36 +0000
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-31 03:10 +0100
                Re: random passwords Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> - 2018-08-31 12:26 +0100
                Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-29 23:36 +0000
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-29 11:35 +0100
                Re: random passwords not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2018-08-29 23:45 +0000
      Re: random passwords Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-08-24 18:07 +0000
        Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-24 20:27 +0000
    Re: random passwords Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2018-09-03 07:23 -0400
  Re: random passwords Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-08-23 16:57 +0000
    Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-23 17:07 +0000
  Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-23 17:02 +0000
    Re: random passwords Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-08-23 17:25 +0000
      Re: random passwords William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2018-08-23 17:32 +0000
      Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-23 17:46 +0000
        Re: random passwords Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-08-23 18:07 +0000
        Re: random passwords Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2018-08-23 12:51 -0600
    Re: random passwords Allodoxaphobia <knock_yourself_out@example.net> - 2018-08-24 02:35 +0000
  Re: random passwords John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-25 11:13 -0500
    Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-25 17:24 +0000
      Re: random passwords John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-25 13:17 -0500
        Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-25 20:27 +0000
          Re: random passwords Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2018-08-25 21:28 -0500
            Re: random passwords Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net> - 2018-08-26 01:19 -0400
              Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-26 13:43 +0000
                Re: random passwords Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-08-26 14:15 +0000
                Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-26 15:18 +0000
                Re: random passwords Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2018-08-26 09:30 -0500
              Re: random passwords Michael Black <mblack@pubnix.net> - 2018-08-26 11:44 -0400
                Re: random passwords John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2018-08-26 16:40 -0500
                Re: random passwords Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2018-08-26 21:11 -0500
                Re: random passwords Allodoxaphobia <knock_yourself_out@example.net> - 2018-08-28 13:29 +0000
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-28 14:32 +0100
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-27 07:17 +0100
                Re: random passwords Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-08-27 06:21 +0000
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-27 08:15 +0100
                Re: random passwords Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2018-08-27 22:44 +0000
              Re: random passwords azigni <azigni@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-26 12:55 -0600
                Re: random passwords Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2018-08-26 16:09 -0500
                Re: random passwords Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2018-08-26 21:32 +0000
                Re: random passwords Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2018-08-26 21:11 -0500
                Re: random passwords The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-27 07:19 +0100
            Re: random passwords Doug McIntyre <merlyn@dork.geeks.org> - 2018-08-26 00:41 -0500
              Re: random passwords Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2018-08-26 06:48 -0500

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