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Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!?

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On 14.06.2025 05:31, c186282 wrote:
>> [python] 
>
>   PERL *can* be concise. It's also closer to a 'shell-script'
>   language, which makes it more challenging to write AND
>   understand six months later.
> 
>   Frankly, Python is just generally 'better' these days.
>   Maybe not AS 'concise' but more 'readable' AND easier
>   to understand six months from now. The speed is now
>   'adequate' and Python-4 is supposed to be even faster.
> 
>   There is some computer stuff that really should be done
>   in 'C' (I remember when it was the cool NEW lang !) ...
>   but now I'm far more likely to write in Python for the
>   abovementioned reasons.

>   And hey, BASIC still exists ... though not as nicely
>   structured it can STILL get the job done. Also consider
>   one of the 'C-shells'.

This last paragraph is disturbing. Of course you can also
use, say, INTERCAL to "get the job done", but is that the
measure of things!?

Just recently I picked a piece of old BASIC code - granted,
it was not one of the fancier new BASIC dialects but back
from the "glory mainframe days" - and tried to understand
this trash in an attempt to create (in a refactoring task)
some structured code from it (Algol 68 in this case). That
was a horrible, quite time-consuming attempt (and yet I
achieved only something like an "80% solution").

Also mentioning the "C shells" for programming; I thought
meanwhile (after half a centenary!) we should not mention
the C-shells in any contexts of "sensible programming".

> 
>   Since the 60s, seems like EVERYBODY had their "better
>   idea" about programming languages and styles. However
>   only a very FEW have stood the test of time. I can
>   still write some COBOL and FORTRAN ... occasionally
>   do so Just For Fun ... but their overall utility has
>   greatly diminished compared to later langs.

Well, I think this should be differentiated a bit...
> EVERYBODY had their "better idea"
appears to me, on the longer time scale, unnecessarily
disparaging.

The time constraints, motivations based on application
areas, language designers, and the creation processes
were quite manifold (without going into the details; it
would go to far here[*]).

What we observe more recently is, it seems, that folks
(individuals) _just write_ their own languages if they
have some ideas (maybe "idee fixe") what they'd like
to have. Not surprising given that IT was historically
restricted to a small community of experts, and now we
have not only more experts but also "everyone" owns or
has access to computers.

The "test of time" is, in my experience, also not any
good measurement of excellence in language design.
Language were designed and fit for some purpose. Some
that shouldn't be touched with a barge pole survived,
others didn't make it; here politics and marketing are
and were also substantial relevant factors to consider.

But languages are not and end in itself, they're just
tools that should be used as they fit in the projects.

> 
>   (I *do* still often write in PASCAL though - see
>   it as a kind of 'poetry' :-)

I understand that very well! There's some languages
that introduced noteworthy concepts, others are just
pretty, some simple to use, or easy to get programs
right.

Janis

[*] Compare the mentioned factors for FORTRAN, COBOL,
PL-I, Simula, Algol 60, BASIC, Algol 68, Pascal, Ada,
"C", C++, Java, Perl, Javacript, PHP, Python, to pick
a few languages with specific creation characteristics.

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Thread

Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-05-19 05:17 +0000
  Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-13 23:31 -0400
    Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-14 02:25 -0700
      Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-15 00:58 -0400
        Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-14 23:04 -0700
          Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Brian Morrison <news@fenrir.org.uk> - 2025-06-15 14:46 +0100
            Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-15 13:44 -0700
              Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Brian Morrison <news@fenrir.org.uk> - 2025-06-16 18:32 +0100
                Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 11:38 -0700
            Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-15 21:02 +0000
              Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Brian Morrison <news@fenrir.org.uk> - 2025-06-16 18:34 +0100
                Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-16 23:07 +0000
          Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-17 23:38 -0400
            Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-18 09:27 -0700
              Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-19 01:30 -0400
                Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-19 02:23 -0700
                Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-20 01:27 -0400
                Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-20 12:32 -0700
    Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-06 16:30 +0200
      Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 08:17 -0700
        Re: Writing Python Code More Concisely Than Perl!? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-08-07 03:49 +0200

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