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Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode

From cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups comp.os.vms
Subject Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode
Date 2025-10-27 14:05 +0000
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <10dnu7o$788$1@reader2.panix.com> (permalink)
References <10dfric$2j5ee$1@dont-email.me> <10dmjj5$e6ef$1@dont-email.me> <10dnh49$1k7$3@reader2.panix.com> <10dnko9$32dsd$1@paganini.bofh.team>

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In article <10dnko9$32dsd$1@paganini.bofh.team>,
Waldek Hebisch <antispam@fricas.org> wrote:
>Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> wrote:
>> In article <10dmjj5$e6ef$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dave Froble  <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>>On 10/24/2025 2:10 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
>>>> In article <10dgc4a$2nvpo$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Simon Clubley  <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Carry on, regardless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this
>>>>> is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general purpose OS.
>>>>
>>>> I think that's unlikely.
>>>>
>>>> My read of this was that the Alpha system was used as the
>>>> backend for the data collection pipeline, probably handling
>>>> overall management of the monitoring data, and possibly hosting
>>>> some analysis.  That is, the Alphas are the repository of
>>>> whatever information is being generated by realtime monitoring
>>>> systems, but not taking that data themselves.
>>>>
>>>> My guess would be that they are/were running VMS, but who knows?
>>>
>>>It is amusing the hoops some are attempting to jump thru to declare it isn't 
>>>VMS, when is sure seems VMS is the most likely environment.
>>>
>>>:-)
>> 
>> Sure seems that way.  There are enough breadcrumbs to follow in
>> the document: when they started mentioning IT staff training and
>> so on, an RTOS seemed a lot less likely.  And if were something
>> Unix-y, they could _probably_ port to something else that was
>> similarly Unix-y, but, that doc left out a lot of details, so I
>> can see why folks want to speculate.
>
>The document does not consider porting as an alternative.

It does; or, rather, it talks about a rewrite, but it says that
the cost to would be prohibitively expensive and taken a
significant amount of time: NT $100m over two years, plus
retraining and documentation costs.

>They apparently they wanted to use "the same" system, that
>is did not want changes to functionality, so probably there
>was some serious obstacle to porting.  Most likely, they had
>no sources, for example software was developed by an outside
>vendor and they only received binaries.

Possibly.

Or perhaps they were locked onto a single source platform and
did not have a good migration path to something more open (note
that, when discussing migration to a different platform, the
document mentions a "new operation system").

It could also be that there are regulatory issues requiring
certification of a new platform, whereas virtualizing it is ok;
possibly Stromasys had already checked that box.

This is all somewhat reminscent of the Melbourne commuter rail
control system thing that was making the rounds a decade or so
ago, but on Alpha instead of PDP-11:
https://www.webinfo.uk/webdocssl/irse-kbase/PDFreader.aspx?RefNo=1559669757&document=2.10%20Strangaric%20-%20Legacy%20train%20control%20system%20stabilisation.PDF&id=90&PDFC=DP&App=Knowledge%20Base&Title=

	- Dan C.

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Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> - 2025-10-24 23:31 +1100
  Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-24 08:49 -0400
    Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 10:45 -0400
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2025-10-24 17:16 +0000
    Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2025-10-24 17:30 +0000
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-24 13:42 -0400
        Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2025-10-24 21:01 +0100
          Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2025-10-28 13:16 +0000
        Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-10-26 15:56 +0000
          Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2025-10-28 13:09 +0000
    Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2025-10-26 20:45 -0400
  Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-24 16:58 +0300
    Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-24 09:07 -0400
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-24 21:02 +0000
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-26 17:37 +0200
    Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:59 +0000
  Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2025-10-24 17:13 +0000
    Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-24 13:34 -0400
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> - 2025-10-24 18:46 +0100
        Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-24 13:51 -0400
          Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-24 21:05 +0000
        Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-24 18:18 +0000
        Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-10-26 11:40 +0100
          Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2025-10-26 15:36 +0100
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 21:35 -0400
        Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-10-26 11:42 +0100
          Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 08:35 -0400
            Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-26 10:55 -0400
              Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:56 -0400
                Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-26 22:09 -0400
                Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-27 10:16 +0000
                Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2025-10-27 15:55 -0400
                Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-28 12:58 +0000
                Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2025-10-28 13:54 +0000
                Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2025-10-28 12:15 -0400
                Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2025-10-29 10:04 +0100
                Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2025-10-29 13:13 +0000
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-26 17:44 -0400
        Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-27 10:17 +0000
    Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-24 18:10 +0000
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode bill <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 21:38 -0400
      Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2025-10-26 21:57 -0400
        Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-27 10:22 +0000
          Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-27 11:23 +0000
            Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-27 14:05 +0000
              Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-10-27 18:06 -0400
            Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2025-10-27 19:37 -0400
  Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:53 +0000
  Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Olorin <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-30 09:14 +0000
    Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-30 10:52 +0000

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