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Version control systems for DOS?

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  Version control systems for DOS? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-05-30 16:44 +0800
    Re: Version control systems for DOS? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2020-05-30 11:13 +0200
      Re: Version control systems for DOS? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-05-30 18:09 +0800
        Re: Version control systems for DOS? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2020-05-30 12:21 +0200
          Re: Version control systems for DOS? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-05-30 19:04 +0800
          Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 17:06 +0000
            Re: Version control systems for DOS? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2020-05-30 22:39 +0200
              Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 20:59 +0000
      Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 16:46 +0000
        Re: Version control systems for DOS? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2020-05-30 19:08 +0200
    Re: Version control systems for DOS? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2020-05-30 12:38 +0200
      Re: Version control systems for DOS? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-05-30 19:22 +0800
        Re: Version control systems for DOS? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2020-05-30 13:30 +0200
          Floppies (was Re: Version control systems for DOS?) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-05-30 19:56 +0800
            Re: Floppies (was Re: Version control systems for DOS?) T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 16:50 +0000
        Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 17:15 +0000
    Re: Version control systems for DOS? Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2020-05-30 13:47 +0200
      Re: Version control systems for DOS? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-05-31 00:04 +0800
        Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 16:31 +0000
        Re: Version control systems for DOS? Bogus@Embarq.com (Steve) - 2020-05-31 11:59 +0000
      Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 17:19 +0000
    Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 16:26 +0000
      Re: Version control systems for DOS? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-05-31 05:26 +0800
        Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-05-30 21:46 +0000
    Re: Version control systems for DOS? rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) - 2020-05-31 19:49 +0000
      Re: Version control systems for DOS? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2020-06-01 04:33 +0800
        Re: Version control systems for DOS? T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid> - 2020-06-01 02:42 +0000

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#3826 — Version control systems for DOS?

Dear. c.o.m.programmer,

What do people use to transfer source code to/from physical machines?

Is there git/svn/cvs/something for DOS?

I've also considered network file systems, but it seems those are
usually based on SMB and the clients are problematic (if they even
still exist).

So what do people usually use?

Note: I don't have the physical machine yet, so I'm currently just
planning what hardware/software combinations I can use.

-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | twitter: @myrkraverk

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#3827

2020-05-30 at 16:44 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> What do people use to transfer source code to/from physical machines?

I develop source code on a Linux laptop, compile through DOSemu and
then transfer the binaries to physical machines for testing over
etherdfs.

Mateusz

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#3828

On 30/05/2020 5:13 pm, Mateusz Viste wrote:
> 2020-05-30 at 16:44 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>> What do people use to transfer source code to/from physical machines?
> 
> I develop source code on a Linux laptop, compile through DOSemu and
> then transfer the binaries to physical machines for testing over
> etherdfs.

Etherdfs seems to be linux only, which will not work for me as-is.  (Of
course I can make it work, but not sure yet if that's what I want to do)


-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | twitter: @myrkraverk

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#3829

2020-05-30 at 18:09 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> On 30/05/2020 5:13 pm, Mateusz Viste wrote:
> > 2020-05-30 at 16:44 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:  
> >> What do people use to transfer source code to/from physical
> >> machines?  
> > 
> > I develop source code on a Linux laptop, compile through DOSemu and
> > then transfer the binaries to physical machines for testing over
> > etherdfs.  
> 

> Etherdfs seems to be linux only, which will not work for me as-is.

It is Linux-only indeed. I was not projecting it over you of course, I
was merely answering to the question "what do people use".

> (Of course I can make it work, but not sure yet if that's what I want
> to do)

A possible way is to set it up on a RPi that acts as a kind of "mini
home NAS for DOS-related machines". Another way is to run the etherdfs
server inside a Linux VM on a Windows host.

Mateusz

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#3831

On 30/05/2020 6:21 pm, Mateusz Viste wrote:
> 2020-05-30 at 18:09 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>> On 30/05/2020 5:13 pm, Mateusz Viste wrote:
>>> 2020-05-30 at 16:44 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>>>> What do people use to transfer source code to/from physical
>>>> machines?
>>>
>>> I develop source code on a Linux laptop, compile through DOSemu and
>>> then transfer the binaries to physical machines for testing over
>>> etherdfs.
>>
> 
>> Etherdfs seems to be linux only, which will not work for me as-is.
> 
> It is Linux-only indeed. I was not projecting it over you of course, I
> was merely answering to the question "what do people use".

Yes, thank you.

>> (Of course I can make it work, but not sure yet if that's what I want
>> to do)
> 
> A possible way is to set it up on a RPi that acts as a kind of "mini
> home NAS for DOS-related machines". Another way is to run the etherdfs
> server inside a Linux VM on a Windows host.

Yes, both of those are viable ways to do it -- though right now I'm
still unsure what I want to do.

I'm still looking for a place that sells refurbished machines locally,
and I don't know what hardware they have available and what I may have
to import (which can incur significant delays).

Knowing what people are currently using, and what hardware is available
can be extremely helpful.


-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | twitter: @myrkraverk

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#3841

On Sat, 30 May 2020 12:21:25 +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote:

> A possible way is to set it up on a RPi that acts as a kind of "mini
> home NAS for DOS-related machines".

RPi? What's that?

Googling ... oh Raspberry. Don't you still need a hard drive or
something to store files?

Sounds like a lot of work.

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#3846

2020-05-30 at 17:06 +0000, T. Ment wrote:
> Googling ... oh Raspberry. Don't you still need a hard drive or
> something to store files?

There's an SD card in the RPi, that's where the OS lives. And that's
where one can store user files etc.

> Sounds like a lot of work.

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

Mateusz

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#3847

On Sat, 30 May 2020 22:39:30 +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote:

> There's an SD card in the RPi, that's where the OS lives. And that's
> where one can store user files etc.

An SD card? How big is that? Sounds strange.


>> Sounds like a lot of work.

> "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

Whoever said that never met a woman.

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#3839

On Sat, 30 May 2020 11:13:58 +0200, Mateusz Viste wrote:

> I develop source code on a Linux laptop, compile through DOSemu and
> then transfer the binaries to physical machines for testing over
> etherdfs.

I;m curious about the packet driver and etherdfs memory requirement on
the DOS client. How much?

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#3842

2020-05-30 at 16:46 +0000, T. Ment wrote:
> I;m curious about the packet driver and etherdfs memory requirement on
> the DOS client. How much?

The etherdfs client requires 7K of RAM when loaded. If that's too much
for you, then I suggest trying ethflop - its footprint is 2K.

http://etherdfs.sourceforge.net/
http://ethflop.sourceforge.net/

Mateusz

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#3830

Johann,

> So what do people usually use?

You already spelled the problems out, with the biggest one being that plain 
DOS doesn't even have network support.    The answer is therefore: a floppy. 
At least, that is what I use (on plain-old DOS).

But if SMB isn't your thing, also think of RS232 and possibly even 
"interlink" (using the printer port).    Even if those two do not have the 
highest speeds, DOS programs tend to be quite a bit smaller than Windows 
versions. :-)

Also, I seem to remember something about software which allows you to attach 
a Windows computer to a DOS one (using ethernet/UDP), and use it as a 
standard (IFS) drive.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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#3832

On 30/05/2020 6:38 pm, R.Wieser wrote:
> Johann,
> 
>> So what do people usually use?
> 
> You already spelled the problems out, with the biggest one being that plain
> DOS doesn't even have network support.    The answer is therefore: a floppy.
> At least, that is what I use (on plain-old DOS).

Right now, I have no floppies and no floppy drive [1].  So while the
floppy solution seems attractive, it's probably not going to work for
me.

But apparently there are now "floppy USB drives,"

   https://www.plrelectronics.com/floppy-to-usb/

which I may end up trying -- if only for the redundancy.

> But if SMB isn't your thing, also think of RS232 and possibly even
> "interlink" (using the printer port).    Even if those two do not have the
> highest speeds, DOS programs tend to be quite a bit smaller than Windows
> versions. :-)

Years ago, we had a Novell server where I went to school, and it worked
well (but I don't know how much effort it was to set up originally, I
was a student, not a sysadmin there).  And even that seems problematic
today.

> Also, I seem to remember something about software which allows you to attach
> a Windows computer to a DOS one (using ethernet/UDP), and use it as a
> standard (IFS) drive.

There are several such solutions out there, but most/all I've come
across are not maintained anymore, so I don't know how feasible they
are.  One option would be to port/make my own etherdfs server [2].

[1] Side effect of moving to a different country a few years ago.

[2] Or run it with WSL though that doesn't seem attractive to me.

-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | twitter: @myrkraverk

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#3833

2020-05-30 at 19:22 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> Right now, I have no floppies and no floppy drive [1].  So while the
> floppy solution seems attractive, it's probably not going to work for
> me.

Floppy drives (esp. the common 1.44MB) can still be found relatively
easily. The real problem is that floppies themselves are not
manufactured any longer, and their life span, when actually used, is
not great... Plus the quality of the floppies produced in the last two
decades tended to be really bad. I wouldn't recommend considering such
option.

Mateusz

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#3835 — Floppies (was Re: Version control systems for DOS?)

On 30/05/2020 7:30 pm, Mateusz Viste wrote:
> Floppy drives (esp. the common 1.44MB) can still be found relatively
> easily. The real problem is that floppies themselves are not
> manufactured any longer, and their life span, when actually used, is
> not great... Plus the quality of the floppies produced in the last two
> decades tended to be really bad. I wouldn't recommend considering such
> option.

Which brings me to another question, how hard is it to manufacture a
floppy disk?  Does it require a big, big factory, or is there a way
to make do with equipment an individual can afford?

Not to say that I can afford such a project, but I'm still curious.

-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | twitter: @myrkraverk

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#3840 — Re: Floppies (was Re: Version control systems for DOS?)

On Sat, 30 May 2020 19:56:45 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:

> Which brings me to another question, how hard is it to manufacture a
> floppy disk?  Does it require a big, big factory

That would be my guess.


> or is there a way to make do with equipment an individual can afford?

IDK, but why would you.

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#3843

On Sat, 30 May 2020 19:22:59 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:

> Years ago, we had a Novell server where I went to school, and it worked
> well (but I don't know how much effort it was to set up originally, I
> was a student, not a sysadmin there).

Without any Novell experience, I set one up at home. It's the fastest
file sharing there ever was for DOS. But if the server dies, where are
your files? You need a 2nd server for mirroring and redundancy.

Doable, but time consuming.

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#3834

On 30.05.20 10:44, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
> Dear. c.o.m.programmer,
>
> What do people use to transfer source code to/from physical machines?
>
> Is there git/svn/cvs/something for DOS?
>
> I've also considered network file systems, but it seems those are
> usually based on SMB and the clients are problematic (if they even
> still exist).
>
> So what do people usually use?
>
> Note: I don't have the physical machine yet, so I'm currently just
> planning what hardware/software combinations I can use.
>
Small: A floppy.
Large: A CD rom.
Very large: My home made parac cable and transmit.exe/recieve.exe
Also very large: Ethernet and my re_et.exe and tran_et.exe.
Those last two can manage to transfer whole partitions.

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#3836

On 30/05/2020 7:47 pm, Sjouke Burry wrote:
> On 30.05.20 10:44, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>> Dear. c.o.m.programmer,
>>
>> What do people use to transfer source code to/from physical machines?

> Small: A floppy.
> Large: A CD rom.
> Very large: My home made parac cable and transmit.exe/recieve.exe
> Also very large: Ethernet and my re_et.exe and tran_et.exe.
> Those last two can manage to transfer whole partitions.

Hmm, I think I'd like a more incremental option, such as per file vcs
or ftp; and ftp is likely to work.  For some reason I haven't found any
evidence of vcs systems compiled for dos, not even cvs.

-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | twitter: @myrkraverk

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#3838

On Sun, 31 May 2020 00:04:45 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:

> Hmm, I think I'd like a more incremental option, such as per file vcs
> or ftp; and ftp is likely to work.  For some reason I haven't found any
> evidence of vcs systems compiled for dos, not even cvs.

I found RCS because I was looking for a VCS that keeps original file
dates on import. The other guys don't care about that, but I do.

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#3852

Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> writes:
>On 30/05/2020 7:47 pm, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>> On 30.05.20 10:44, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
>>> Dear. c.o.m.programmer,
>>>
>>> What do people use to transfer source code to/from physical machines?
>
>> Small: A floppy.
>> Large: A CD rom.
>> Very large: My home made parac cable and transmit.exe/recieve.exe
>> Also very large: Ethernet and my re_et.exe and tran_et.exe.
>> Those last two can manage to transfer whole partitions.
>
>Hmm, I think I'd like a more incremental option, such as per file vcs
>or ftp; and ftp is likely to work.  For some reason I haven't found any
>evidence of vcs systems compiled for dos, not even cvs.

Hi,

   For a DOS program for maintaining source code I bought
Source_Manager, of 1992 vintage.  From the manual: "it
provides a traceable system for the maintenance of source
code and the retention of historical records documenting
code creation dates, code correction dates and code revision
levels;"  "The source maintenance procedure employed by
Source_Manager is based upon Control Data Corporation's
Update utility program."

Regards,

Steve N.

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