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Best Linux for senior citizens?

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  Best Linux for senior citizens? Dave <dboland9@protonmail.com> - 2019-08-22 09:15 -0400
    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-22 15:45 +0200
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Dave <dboland9@protonmail.com> - 2019-08-22 10:28 -0400
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-22 15:39 +0100
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-22 16:54 +0200
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2019-08-22 11:07 -0400
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-22 20:41 +0200
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2019-08-25 10:37 -0400
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2019-08-25 10:32 -0400
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-22 17:28 +0100
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-08-22 18:46 +0000
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-22 15:35 -0400
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? andrew <andrew@skamandros.invalid> - 2019-08-29 03:25 +0000
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "L.A. Rathbone" <please@replytolist.com> - 2019-08-29 03:27 +0000
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? andrew <andrew@skamandros.invalid> - 2019-08-29 04:03 +0000
              Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "L.A. Rathbone" <please@replytolist.com> - 2019-08-30 02:40 +0000
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? andrew <andrew@skamandros.invalid> - 2019-08-30 05:24 +0000
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-23 15:49 -0700
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-08-25 23:00 +0000
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-25 16:50 -0700
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-08-26 23:35 +0000
              Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-26 17:48 -0700
              Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-26 20:16 -0500
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-08-26 19:46 -0700
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-27 14:42 -0400
                    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-27 23:20 +0200
                      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-28 13:01 -0400
                        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-29 15:57 +0200
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-08-26 22:12 -0700
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-27 03:22 -0700
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-27 13:43 +0200
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "L.A. Rathbone" <please@replytolist.com> - 2019-08-27 16:38 +0000
                    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-08-27 17:12 +0000
                      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-27 16:53 -0500
                        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-08-27 15:46 -0700
                          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-28 14:21 +0200
                            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-08-28 07:49 -0700
                            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-29 07:45 +0100
                        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-08-28 02:11 +0000
                        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2019-08-28 20:19 +0000
                          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-08-29 02:56 +0000
                    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-08-27 19:11 +0000
                    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-27 16:53 -0500
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-27 13:08 +0200
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-08-29 16:48 -0500
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-27 14:34 -0400
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-27 23:16 +0200
                    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-28 12:59 -0400
                      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-08-29 16:50 -0500
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-27 16:53 -0500
                    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-28 13:50 -0400
                      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-08-28 11:45 -0700
                        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-29 12:27 -0400
                          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-09-21 10:47 -0400
                        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-09-21 10:27 -0400
                      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2019-08-28 18:50 +0000
                      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-29 15:59 +0200
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-08-27 17:00 -0400
                    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-28 14:23 +0200
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-08-27 23:45 +0000
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-28 13:59 -0400
                    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-08-28 23:40 +0000
              Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-09-21 10:18 -0400
    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-22 15:39 +0100
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-26 08:31 -0500
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-26 16:47 +0200
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-26 10:55 -0500
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-26 13:18 -0400
              Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-26 23:45 +0200
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-26 17:36 -0500
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-27 14:24 -0400
                  Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-27 23:12 +0200
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-26 16:37 +0100
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-08-26 19:23 +0000
    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? ray carter <ray@zianet.com> - 2019-08-22 14:45 +0000
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-08-22 10:19 -0500
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Dave <dboland9@protonmail.com> - 2019-08-22 14:37 -0400
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-08-22 16:04 -0500
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2019-08-22 18:43 +0000
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Dave <dboland9@protonmail.com> - 2019-08-22 17:08 -0400
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2019-08-23 05:25 +0000
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-23 15:45 -0400
              Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-24 14:55 -0400
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-24 21:02 +0200
    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-22 14:48 -0400
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Dave <dboland9@protonmail.com> - 2019-08-22 17:15 -0400
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-23 00:11 +0200
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-23 08:36 +0100
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-23 09:06 +0100
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-23 12:33 +0100
              Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-23 14:03 +0100
                Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-23 16:28 +0200
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-26 08:31 -0500
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2019-08-26 20:35 +0000
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-26 13:25 -0400
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-23 08:31 +0100
    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2019-08-23 03:54 +0000
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-08-23 01:05 -0400
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Dave <dboland9@protonmail.com> - 2019-08-23 02:04 -0400
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-08-23 01:59 -0500
          Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-08-23 03:06 -0400
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Dave <dboland9@protonmail.com> - 2019-08-23 07:27 -0400
            Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-08-23 16:35 +0200
              Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-08-23 18:05 +0100
    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "L.A. Rathbone" <please@replytolist.com> - 2019-08-25 22:23 +0000
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-26 13:01 -0400
    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2019-08-26 08:31 -0500
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2019-08-26 13:04 -0400
        Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2019-08-26 17:49 +0000
    Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-08-26 09:45 -0700
      Re: Best Linux for senior citizens? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-08-26 13:26 -0400

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#28011

Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> wrote:
> Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:
>> At Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:12:38 -0000 (UTC) Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> L.A. Rathbone <please@replytolist.com> wrote:
>>> > On 2019-08-27, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> >> On 08/26/2019 06:16 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
>>> >>> [snip]
>>> >>> Rule of thumb: never get a "cheap" inkjet printer.  Don't even bother, esp.
>>> >>> since the replace cartridge(s) will likely cost more than the printer itself.
>>> > 
>>> > Agreed. Especially for letter-writing and mainly text-oriented printing,
>>> > monochrome laser printers are by far the best value.
>>> > 
>>> >>> When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports PostScript.  These
>>> >>> will almost always work out of the box.
>>> > 
>>> > True. They're also notoriously expensive.
>>> 
>>> Not always.  My Lexmark laser I bought a few years ago came with 
>>> Postscript included, and it was no more costly than other printers of 
>>> the same capability range that were just HPLJ (or worse, win-printers).
>> 
>> Brother's "BRScript" (Brother's brand of PostScript) printers work well are 
>> not terribly expensive, especially if you figure it terms toner cart lifetime 
>> vs inkjet cart lifetime, and the cost of them over time.
> 
> Also the toner is separate from the drum unit, which makes it less
> expensive than HP, where you replace the toner and the drum every
> time. HL2280 networked here.

Same design as my Lexmark.  Toner cartridge holds just toner, the 
imaging drum is a separate cartridge.

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#27987

In comp.os.linux.misc, L.A. Rathbone <please@replytolist.com> wrote:
[quoting not sure who]
>>> When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports
>>> PostScript.  These will almost always work out of the box.
> True. They're also notoriously expensive.

The Brother printers I've used support PostScript, but they didn't pay
the licensing so it's called "BR Script". Typical stuff works, but I
have run into issues with exotic stuff like papertray selections
(namely, you can't specify that part of a print job should be from one
tray and part from another).

My wife prints *a lot* and we've run several of those Brother printers
into the ground. I currently have a HLL6200DW, one of the consumables:
"DR820 Drum Unit, Yields approx 30,000 pages". By the time the *second*
drum runs out, I found replacing the whole printer seemed much cheaper
than buying the additional parts it needed.

We started with the (then) HL-L2315DW equivilent a bunch of years ago.
Reliable, easy to set up for Linux/Windows/Mac, automatic duplexing,
quiet. But that was not up to the challenge of how much we print.

Elijah
------
does the toner cartridge reset too (youtube has videos)

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#27991

At Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:38:46 -0000 (UTC) "L.A. Rathbone" <please@replytolist.com> wrote:

> 
> On 2019-08-27, The Real Bev wrote:
> > On 08/26/2019 06:16 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >> Rule of thumb: never get a "cheap" inkjet printer.  Don't even bother, esp.
> >> since the replace cartridge(s) will likely cost more than the printer itself.
> 
> Agreed. Especially for letter-writing and mainly text-oriented printing,
> monochrome laser printers are by far the best value.
> 
> >> When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports PostScript.  These
> >> will almost always work out of the box.
> 
> True. They're also notoriously expensive.

Not over the long haul.  You either pay "upfront" or get nickled and dimed 
over the years...

> 
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> Always research the printer's Linux support *before* buying it (see above).
> >
> > I've been happy with my super-cheap Brother laser printer since 2009. 
> > Cartridges from ebay are cheap.  Linux-friendly.  Much better built, 
> > albeit really light and cheesy-feeling, than the cheap Samsung printer I 
> > had before, which never worked right.
> >
> > 77, running slackware since 1995 or thereabouts.  Always use the distro 
> > your live-in tech support person does :-)
> 
> I'm a happy Slacker too :)  Slackware with XFCE wouldn't be the worst
> choice for seniors, if there is a sysadmin that can actually help with
> the initial setup and security updates.
> 
> I think what I had envisioned from this thread was something that
> seniors with limited computer knowledge could actually maintain as well
> - mainly just applying updates.

I have found that it is better all around to provide on-going support.  A 
proper (basic) Linux install requires little maintanence, but improper 
maintanence can trash things.  Better to visit the old folks from time-to-time 
and take care of the updates and whatnot.

>                                                                                 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                           

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#27978

On 27/08/2019 03.16, Robert Heller wrote:
> Always research the printer's Linux support *before* buying it (see above).

Absolutely!

Not only printers, though.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#28032

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 27/08/2019 03.16, Robert Heller wrote:
> > Always research the printer's Linux support *before* buying it (see above).

> Absolutely!

> Not only printers, though.

Ditto. It's easier to do older hardwares.
-- 
Quote of the Week: "... and don't let him look at my ant farm..." --Roger in American Dad S14 E20
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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#27985

On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 20:16:24 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
>
> At Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:35:31 +0000 (UTC) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>
>> Jeeze don't I wish. Certainly it's the case a lot of the time, but
>> the last printer that I tried to get working (Samsung CLP-610ND - not
>> even new) has become a project put off indefinitely after a failed
>> six hour marathon of determinedly trying to get either of two Linux
>> drivers to work properly.
>
> Rule of thumb: never get a "cheap" inkjet printer.  Don't even bother, esp. 
> since the replace cartridge(s) will likely cost more than the printer itself.

Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.

> When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports PostScript.  These 
> will almost always work out of the box.
>
> There are a handful of brands that will generally work well.  I suspect going 
> to http://openprinting.org/printers and/or checking the distro's shipped 
> collection of ppds *before* going off the the mall and buying the cheapeast or 
> snazzist printer is also a really good idea.

Don't know how terms are in the US. When I was walking up and writing
down the aisles at Staples Canada and wrote down names of the cheapest
printer the sales-droid asked me if he can help. I explained to him the
printer I buy must run on Linux and I will check their names against
<https://www.openprinting.org/> or others. He said I can just buy one and if
not happy give it back within 90 days without giving a reason. So I
bought it.
-- 
Andreas

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#27989

On 27/08/2019 20.34, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 20:16:24 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>> At Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:35:31 +0000 (UTC) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>>
>>> Jeeze don't I wish. Certainly it's the case a lot of the time, but
>>> the last printer that I tried to get working (Samsung CLP-610ND - not
>>> even new) has become a project put off indefinitely after a failed
>>> six hour marathon of determinedly trying to get either of two Linux
>>> drivers to work properly.
>>
>> Rule of thumb: never get a "cheap" inkjet printer.  Don't even bother, esp. 
>> since the replace cartridge(s) will likely cost more than the printer itself.
> 
> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.

Ink? All I have seen dry up in that type of use.

> 
>> When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports PostScript.  These 
>> will almost always work out of the box.
>>
>> There are a handful of brands that will generally work well.  I suspect going 
>> to http://openprinting.org/printers and/or checking the distro's shipped 
>> collection of ppds *before* going off the the mall and buying the cheapeast or 
>> snazzist printer is also a really good idea.
> 
> Don't know how terms are in the US. When I was walking up and writing
> down the aisles at Staples Canada and wrote down names of the cheapest
> printer the sales-droid asked me if he can help. I explained to him the
> printer I buy must run on Linux and I will check their names against
> <https://www.openprinting.org/> or others. He said I can just buy one and if
> not happy give it back within 90 days without giving a reason. So I
> bought it.

Yes, but I do not like doing that. I'm old fashioned.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#28002

On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 23:16:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
> On 27/08/2019 20.34, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 20:16:24 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>> At Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:35:31 +0000 (UTC) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jeeze don't I wish. Certainly it's the case a lot of the time, but
>>>> the last printer that I tried to get working (Samsung CLP-610ND - not
>>>> even new) has become a project put off indefinitely after a failed
>>>> six hour marathon of determinedly trying to get either of two Linux
>>>> drivers to work properly.
>>>
>>> Rule of thumb: never get a "cheap" inkjet printer.  Don't even bother, esp. 
>>> since the replace cartridge(s) will likely cost more than the printer itself.
>> 
>> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
>> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
>> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.
>
> Ink? All I have seen dry up in that type of use.

Yes, ink.

>>> When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports PostScript.  These 
>>> will almost always work out of the box.
>>>
>>> There are a handful of brands that will generally work well.  I suspect going 
>>> to http://openprinting.org/printers and/or checking the distro's shipped 
>>> collection of ppds *before* going off the the mall and buying the cheapeast or 
>>> snazzist printer is also a really good idea.
>> 
>> Don't know how terms are in the US. When I was walking up and writing
>> down the aisles at Staples Canada and wrote down names of the cheapest
>> printer the sales-droid asked me if he can help. I explained to him the
>> printer I buy must run on Linux and I will check their names against
>> <https://www.openprinting.org/> or others. He said I can just buy one and if
>> not happy give it back within 90 days without giving a reason. So I
>> bought it.
>
> Yes, but I do not like doing that. I'm old fashioned.

Same here.
-- 
Andreas

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#28033

Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
...
> >>> When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports PostScript.  These 
> >>> will almost always work out of the box.
> >>>
> >>> There are a handful of brands that will generally work well.  I suspect going 
> >>> to http://openprinting.org/printers and/or checking the distro's shipped 
> >>> collection of ppds *before* going off the the mall and buying the cheapeast or 
> >>> snazzist printer is also a really good idea.
> >> 
> >> Don't know how terms are in the US. When I was walking up and writing
> >> down the aisles at Staples Canada and wrote down names of the cheapest
> >> printer the sales-droid asked me if he can help. I explained to him the
> >> printer I buy must run on Linux and I will check their names against
> >> <https://www.openprinting.org/> or others. He said I can just buy one and if
> >> not happy give it back within 90 days without giving a reason. So I
> >> bought it.
> >
> > Yes, but I do not like doing that. I'm old fashioned.

> Same here.

Ditto. It's annoying enough to waste times to find out it doesn't work.
-- 
Quote of the Week: "... and don't let him look at my ant farm..." --Roger in American Dad S14 E20
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#27993

At Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:34:12 -0400 Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> 
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 20:16:24 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
> >
> > At Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:35:31 +0000 (UTC) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
> >
> >> Jeeze don't I wish. Certainly it's the case a lot of the time, but
> >> the last printer that I tried to get working (Samsung CLP-610ND - not
> >> even new) has become a project put off indefinitely after a failed
> >> six hour marathon of determinedly trying to get either of two Linux
> >> drivers to work properly.
> >
> > Rule of thumb: never get a "cheap" inkjet printer.  Don't even bother, esp. 
> > since the replace cartridge(s) will likely cost more than the printer itself.
> 
> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.

Actually: inkjet carts will dry out.  "Use it or lose it".  Laser toner carts 
have an indefinate "shelf life" they can sit in a printer for years and still 
be good.  Inkjet carts, once unsealed (eg installed), need to be used in a 
limited amount of time.

> 
> > When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports PostScript.  These 
> > will almost always work out of the box.
> >
> > There are a handful of brands that will generally work well.  I suspect going 
> > to http://openprinting.org/printers and/or checking the distro's shipped 
> > collection of ppds *before* going off the the mall and buying the cheapeast or 
> > snazzist printer is also a really good idea.
> 
> Don't know how terms are in the US. When I was walking up and writing
> down the aisles at Staples Canada and wrote down names of the cheapest
> printer the sales-droid asked me if he can help. I explained to him the
> printer I buy must run on Linux and I will check their names against
> <https://www.openprinting.org/> or others. He said I can just buy one and if
> not happy give it back within 90 days without giving a reason. So I
> bought it.

Yes, this is often the case, with varying degrees of hassle.


-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com       -- Webhosting Services
                                                                                                

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#28004

On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:53:23 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
>
> At Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:34:12 -0400 Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
>> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
>> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.
>
> Actually: inkjet carts will dry out.  "Use it or lose it".  Laser toner carts 
> have an indefinate "shelf life" they can sit in a printer for years and still 
> be good.  Inkjet carts, once unsealed (eg installed), need to be used in a 
> limited amount of time.

Have no idea. We didn't talk for quite some time (something I said? ;-).
Am a laser-guy myself. Also had a Dot-Matrix (Citizen Swift 24) more than
a decade ago from a flea market, just to see if it works on Linux when I
still had a desktop PC with parallel port. It did work, at least with
ASCII texts. Soon a neighbor knocked. What's all this noise? *g*
-- 
Andreas

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#28006

On 08/28/2019 10:50 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:53:23 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>> At Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:34:12 -0400 Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
>>> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
>>> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.
>>
>> Actually: inkjet carts will dry out.  "Use it or lose it".  Laser toner carts
>> have an indefinate "shelf life" they can sit in a printer for years and still
>> be good.  Inkjet carts, once unsealed (eg installed), need to be used in a
>> limited amount of time.
>
> Have no idea. We didn't talk for quite some time (something I said? ;-).
> Am a laser-guy myself. Also had a Dot-Matrix (Citizen Swift 24) more than
> a decade ago from a flea market, just to see if it works on Linux when I
> still had a desktop PC with parallel port. It did work, at least with
> ASCII texts. Soon a neighbor knocked. What's all this noise? *g*

Our first printer was a Centronics, instantly recognizable by the sound 
-- THUNK scrape...THUNK scrape... THUNK scrape...   Ultimately the smoke 
leaked out and it stopped working.

-- 
Cheers, Bev
   All the toilets were stolen out of the police station.
   The police have nothing to go on.

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#28020

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 11:45:23 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
> On 08/28/2019 10:50 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>
>> Have no idea. We didn't talk for quite some time (something I said? ;-).
>> Am a laser-guy myself. Also had a Dot-Matrix (Citizen Swift 24) more than
>> a decade ago from a flea market, just to see if it works on Linux when I
>> still had a desktop PC with parallel port. It did work, at least with
>> ASCII texts. Soon a neighbor knocked. What's all this noise? *g*
>
> Our first printer was a Centronics, instantly recognizable by the
> sound -- THUNK scrape...THUNK scrape... THUNK scrape...   Ultimately
> the smoke leaked out and it stopped working.

But back then neighbors were not complaining. Printer were noisy.
-- 
Andreas

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#28286

Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:

> On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 11:45:23 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>> On 08/28/2019 10:50 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>>
>>> Have no idea. We didn't talk for quite some time (something I said? ;-).
>>> Am a laser-guy myself. Also had a Dot-Matrix (Citizen Swift 24) more than
>>> a decade ago from a flea market, just to see if it works on Linux when I
>>> still had a desktop PC with parallel port. It did work, at least with
>>> ASCII texts. Soon a neighbor knocked. What's all this noise? *g*
>>
>> Our first printer was a Centronics, instantly recognizable by the
>> sound -- THUNK scrape...THUNK scrape... THUNK scrape...   Ultimately
>> the smoke leaked out and it stopped working.
>
> But back then neighbors were not complaining. Printer were noisy.

My father had a Silver-Reed daisywheel printer that was extremely
noisy. He had to build a wooden enclosure lined with foam that sat over
it and made it more bearable.

I remember the old Anderson-Jacobs terminals I used in college (they
were basically an IBM Selectric typewriter inside) being very
noisy. Later on I used some sort of IBM terminal connected to a 370 with
VM/370 (the college still called it VM/CMS though) and big IBM
lineprinters in each computer lab. I remember always trying to get a
terminal on the opposite side of the lab from where the printer was. :-)

I've got kind of a funny printer story. In the mid '90s I was working
for an ISP and the main shell server (a Sun SPARC running Solaris) was
occasionally used for printing some things, so it was setup for one of
the printers on the office LAN. This was supposed to be disabled when it
wasn't being used.

The printer was a big Lexmark laser printer with multiple trays and a
lot of paper capacity.

One night a user who was telnetted in wanted to print something from his
shell session to his own, local printer. So he kept trying to print out
this long text document and it didn't work. He'd try it again and still
no dice.

We came in the next morning and found that the printer was completely out
of paper, there were stacks of copies of this document, and print jobs
still waiting for more paper. :-) IIRC, it was 2 or 3 reams of paper
that were used.

Needless to say, a number of changes were made after that. :-) The pile
of paper sat around on a table in the sysadmin's office to remind
everyone that we needed to pay a lot more attention to security.

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#28285

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:

> On 08/28/2019 10:50 AM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:53:23 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>> At Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:34:12 -0400 Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
>>>> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
>>>> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.
>>>
>>> Actually: inkjet carts will dry out.  "Use it or lose it".  Laser toner carts
>>> have an indefinate "shelf life" they can sit in a printer for years and still
>>> be good.  Inkjet carts, once unsealed (eg installed), need to be used in a
>>> limited amount of time.
>>
>> Have no idea. We didn't talk for quite some time (something I said? ;-).
>> Am a laser-guy myself. Also had a Dot-Matrix (Citizen Swift 24) more than
>> a decade ago from a flea market, just to see if it works on Linux when I
>> still had a desktop PC with parallel port. It did work, at least with
>> ASCII texts. Soon a neighbor knocked. What's all this noise? *g*
>
> Our first printer was a Centronics, instantly recognizable by the
> sound -- THUNK scrape...THUNK scrape... THUNK scrape...   Ultimately
> the smoke leaked out and it stopped working.

My first laser printer was an HP Laserjet
III. http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=348  I finally replaced
it with a newer HP and gave it to my brother. At one point he sent it
back to HP to be refurbished and he still has it. I'm not sure if he's
still using it or not - I'll have to ask him.

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#28007

On 2019-08-28, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> Am a laser-guy myself. Also had a Dot-Matrix (Citizen Swift 24) more than
> a decade ago from a flea market, just to see if it works on Linux when I
> still had a desktop PC with parallel port. It did work, at least with
> ASCII texts. Soon a neighbor knocked. What's all this noise? *g*

I still have a Panasonic KX-P1124, originally purchased a lifetime ago
to use with my Commodore 64. It was interfaced via a Cardco parallel
Centronics adapter that I still have around somewhere.

The Panasonic still works perfectly after all these years and is used
regularly for printing multi-part forms.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
  Don't talk to cops!             -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
  Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#28019

On 28/08/2019 19.50, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:53:23 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>> At Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:34:12 -0400 Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
>>> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
>>> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.
>>
>> Actually: inkjet carts will dry out.  "Use it or lose it".  Laser toner carts 
>> have an indefinate "shelf life" they can sit in a printer for years and still 
>> be good.  Inkjet carts, once unsealed (eg installed), need to be used in a 
>> limited amount of time.
> 
> Have no idea. We didn't talk for quite some time (something I said? ;-).
> Am a laser-guy myself. Also had a Dot-Matrix (Citizen Swift 24) more than
> a decade ago from a flea market, just to see if it works on Linux when I
> still had a desktop PC with parallel port. It did work, at least with
> ASCII texts. Soon a neighbor knocked. What's all this noise? *g*

LOL :-D


There was a program that produced music on printers :-)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#27994

On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:34:12 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.

The problem I had with inkjet printers was due to the very low volume
of printing. After a few months of not using it, I'd go to print something
only to find that at least one of the colors was no longer working, even
though it had only been used a few times previously.

While the cost was annoying, it was the not working when needed that made
me give up on using a printer. I still have it, as the scanner still works,
but when I need a printout I print to a file on a usb stick and go to a
local print shop for the hard copy.

I'm tempted to get a color laserjet, but for how rarely I need to print
things, it's hard to justify the cost.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

-- 
Change dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org to davidwhodgins@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

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#28000

On 27/08/2019 23.00, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:34:12 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> Neighbor wanted a cheap printer for printing may be ten pages per
>> year. So I got him a $29 (was on special down from $69) cheap-ass printer
>> from Staples. Worked. One cartridge might work for years for him.
> 
> The problem I had with inkjet printers was due to the very low volume
> of printing. After a few months of not using it, I'd go to print something
> only to find that at least one of the colors was no longer working, even
> though it had only been used a few times previously.

Does not happen with a laser :-)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#27997

Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:
> At Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:35:31 +0000 (UTC) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Now-a-days, you just fire up your web browser and go
>> > get the ppd from
>> > 
>> >      http://openprinting.org/printers
>> 
>> Jeeze don't I wish. Certainly it's the case a lot of the time, but
>> the last printer that I tried to get working (Samsung CLP-610ND - not
>> even new) has become a project put off indefinitely after a failed
>> six hour marathon of determinedly trying to get either of two Linux
>> drivers to work properly.
> [snip]
> 
> When shopping for a laser printer, get one that supports PostScript.  These 
> will almost always work out of the box.

That's true. You have to be willing to pay for it though.

> There are a handful of brands that will generally work well.  I suspect going 
> to http://openprinting.org/printers and/or checking the distro's shipped 
> collection of ppds *before* going off the the mall and buying the cheapeast or 
> snazzist printer is also a really good idea.

http://openprinting.org/printer/Samsung/Samsung-CLP-610

>> And that's not the only recent story of failure. Printing with Linux
>> tends to either just work, or just doesn't. The problem is the insane
>> number of different printer models that are brought out all the time
>> by manufacturers, usually without much thought for Linux. There are
>> just too many for open-source drivers to be comprehensively tested
>> and bugfixed by volunteers, so it comes down to chance as to whether
>> they work or not.
> 
> Always research the printer's Linux support *before* buying it (see above).

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

As I said, there are TWO Linux drivers for this thing, both with all
appearances of working fine from any research on the web. I _did_ do
this research beforehand, and was quite confident that even if the
open-source driver couldn't be made to work, the proprietary one from
SamSung was there as a fall-back.

The printer is a colour laser type, and prints built-in test pages
fine. With the open-source driver I could get it to work printing in
B/W (which I can do with any of my B/W laser printers that _do_ work
properly in Linux anyway, so that's not much help), but upon trying
in colour, the printer spits out pages with (always the same) garbled
text on them and shows an error.

I did a lot of messing about, trying variations of the driver's
authors instructions to compile and use old versions of ghostscript.
I started digging into the code, though it clearly wasn't going to be
an afternoon's work to understand SamSung's QPDL protocol to the
point of identifying bugs. Eventually I gave up and tried the
proprietary SamSung driver, spent an hour or two trying to get that
to print anything at all, failed. Gave up.

**Now, I know other things are left to try**
However I'd spent six hours working my way through the first things
to try, I was fed up with it, and didn't want to see a printer again
for the rest of the day. Since then I've not had the inclination to
get back to the "project".

The printer was actually free, I wouldn't have bought a colour laser
printer because I usually only need B/W anyway (I don't use inkjets
at all). Though I did spend $80 on a full set of toner cartridges for
it before discovering the problem. I'm just annoyed that I _did_ do
the research and thought it had a pretty good chance on Linux given
the two driver options. I've installed other SamSung laser printers
(differnet protocol) under Linux without a hitch as well.

The previous owners could print fine under Windows (another thing to
try though).

It's also not the first time that I've had a printer with all the
right indications on the Open Printing website fail to work with the
suggested driver (and associated PPD - they're not the same). I'm
surprised that there's so much blind trust of it, maybe I am unlucky.

One time was with an inkjet printer, owned by a 90yo lady, and not
bought at my recommendation. Which brings us back to the original
situation where the owner has already bought their printer, you're
trying to set up Linux, and only after installing everything do you
try to set up the printer and find that it doesn't work. The Open
Printing database doesn't help you in that situation - you should
have established whether the printer worked, and whether buying
another one was a "deal-breaker", before beginning to install Linux
on their PC.

Also I'm in Australia, and the strange variation of printer models
between countries adds another complication when researching some
brands (not my SamSung though).

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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