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Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT !

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  Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 01:49 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 07:54 +0200
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 02:12 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 09:03 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:25 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:22 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:14 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:45 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:21 -0400
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 04:20 +0000
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-14 14:27 +0200
              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 22:51 -0400
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 03:15 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:46 -0400
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:16 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-15 17:02 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 19:05 +0000
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-15 20:41 +0100
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 22:21 +0000
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 02:00 +0100
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 02:55 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:54 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:00 +0000
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:55 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:07 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:51 +0000
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 12:34 +0200
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:55 +0100
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:14 +0200
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:10 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:15 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 20:22 +0200
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:11 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:29 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:09 -0400
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:19 +0000
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:09 +0000
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 23:23 -0400
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 07:20 +0000
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 21:47 -0400
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:13 +0000
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:32 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:38 +0200
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:27 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:22 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2026-06-12 09:53 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:34 +0000
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:54 +0200
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:37 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 06:42 +0000
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 04:18 -0400
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 20:21 +0000
              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 23:09 -0400
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 06:22 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 03:57 -0400
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:38 +0000
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:11 +0000
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-14 07:01 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 04:14 -0400
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-14 10:56 +0200
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:40 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-12 13:26 +0000
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com> - 2026-06-17 15:43 +0800

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#87999

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:00:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>
>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>> 
>> That was not the decision taken by many US firms.
> 
> One cant account for technologically backward countries

How is the British automotive industry doing? 

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#88004

On 16/06/2026 03:55, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:00:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>
>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>
>>> That was not the decision taken by many US firms.
>>
>> One cant account for technologically backward countries
> 
> How is the British automotive industry doing?

WE consider it too technologically backward to bother with, frankly.
Best  left to greasy pawed Krauts.
-- 
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

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#88010

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 11:54:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 16/06/2026 03:55, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:00:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>>
>>>> That was not the decision taken by many US firms.
>>>
>>> One cant account for technologically backward countries
>> 
>> How is the British automotive industry doing?
> 
> WE consider it too technologically backward to bother with, frankly.
> Best  left to greasy pawed Krauts.

Like the Thairumph bikes? Historically Britain was first up with the 
industrial revolution, and they clung to the advantage. For example the 
attitude toward India. 'Just grow the cotton, wogs. We'll produce the 
textiles and sell the goods back to you.' It was very lukewarm support but 
Britain favored the south during the US Civil War. It was a source of raw 
material while the industrialized north was a competitor. 

Germany was fine as long as it was a mishmash of principalities making 
cheap knockoffs. With unification and the growth of technology Britain got 
nervous. 

Pissed it all away, didn't you? Not much left beyond the paper shufflers 
in the City, is there?

The US followed suit. Today we grow cotton, ship it to Bangladesh, and buy 
it back as cheap goods from Walmart. 

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#88035

On 16/06/2026 19:00, rbowman wrote:
> Pissed it all away, didn't you? Not much left beyond the paper shufflers
> in the City, is there?
> 
> The US followed suit. Today we grow cotton, ship it to Bangladesh, and buy
> it back as cheap goods from Walmart.

I see TACO has prevailed, and Trump has surrendered to Iran, let them 
keep their nukes and will pay them $300bn in reparations. If they just 
let ships through Hormuz. At a price.

Even our limp wet rag of a PM isn't that stupid

-- 
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's"
Joew Walsh

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#88016

On 6/16/26 06:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 16/06/2026 03:55, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 02:00:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/06/2026 23:21, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 20:41:20 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>>
>>>> That was not the decision taken by many US firms.
>>>
>>> One cant account for technologically backward countries
>>
>> How is the British automotive industry doing?
> 
> WE consider it too technologically backward to bother with, frankly.
> Best  left to greasy pawed Krauts.

   Not going to BE a Kraut auto industry soon - it'll
   all be crappy, sabotaged, China-EVs.

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#88026

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 22:07:17 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Not going to BE a Kraut auto industry soon - it'll all be crappy,
>    sabotaged, China-EVs.

AMC paved the way. Look up the history of Beijing Benz.

For another kick in the teeth:

https://www.media.stellantis.com/em-en/opel/press/happy-tenth-birthday-
ampera-opel-s-pioneering-electric-car

That's where the Chevy Volt was born, not Detroit. Opel has had a strange 
history too. GM bought it during Weimar when the entire German auto 
industry was about to go under. Discouraging for the home of Otto and 
Benz.

iirc there were a few more slaes before they wound up in Stellantis. 

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#88002

On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
> 
> Because automation is cheaper?
> 

Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The 
only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88005

On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>
>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>
> 
> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The 
> only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
> 
Entirely correct.

And the Moroccan ones taste better.



-- 
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

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#88006

On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>
>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>
>>
>> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The 
>> only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
>>
> Entirely correct.
> 
> And the Moroccan ones taste better.

Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88007

On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>
>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. 
>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
>>>
>> Entirely correct.
>>
>> And the Moroccan ones taste better.
> 
> Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P
> 
Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.

We get Moroccan chemical  tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts

"In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and deadly 
E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak killed over 
30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It remains one of 
the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."


-- 
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

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#88012

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 15:10:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day.
>>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
>>>>
>>> Entirely correct.
>>>
>>> And the Moroccan ones taste better.
>> 
>> Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P
>> 
> Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.
> 
> We get Moroccan chemical  tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts
> 
> "In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and deadly
> E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak killed over
> 30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It remains one of
> the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."


That's one of my pet peeves. Afaik there is no such thing as an inorganic 
beansprout.

The man who taught ne to fly was an ag pilot in Vermont. A granola-muncher 
moved to Vermont and started a certified organic farm. John did his best 
keeping his eye on wind directions and so forth but when you're dumping 
pesticide from a Thrush flying 8' off the ground at 120 mph, the cloud 
tends to spread. Farmer Brown did not appreciate his free pesticide 
application.

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#88013

On 2026-06-16 16:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. 
>>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
>>>>
>>> Entirely correct.
>>>
>>> And the Moroccan ones taste better.
>>
>> Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P
>>
> Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.
> 
> We get Moroccan chemical  tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts
> 
> "In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and deadly 
> E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak killed over 
> 30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It remains one of 
> the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."

My memory is not what it was, but I think that epidemic did not 
originate where they thought.

Spain was accused, causing our farmers huge damage. But:

"Eventually investigators traced the outbreak to contaminated fenugreek 
sprouts grown at an organic farm in Lower Saxony. The contamination was 
believed to originate from imported fenugreek seeds, likely from Egypt, 
although the exact point of contamination was never established with 
complete certainty."

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#88036

On 16/06/2026 19:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-06-16 16:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. 
>>>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
>>>>>
>>>> Entirely correct.
>>>>
>>>> And the Moroccan ones taste better.
>>>
>>> Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P
>>>
>> Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.
>>
>> We get Moroccan chemical  tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts
>>
>> "In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and 
>> deadly E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak 
>> killed over 30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It 
>> remains one of the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."
> 
> My memory is not what it was, but I think that epidemic did not 
> originate where they thought.
> 
> Spain was accused, causing our farmers huge damage. But:
> 
> "Eventually investigators traced the outbreak to contaminated fenugreek 
> sprouts grown at an organic farm in Lower Saxony. The contamination was 
> believed to originate from imported fenugreek seeds, likely from Egypt, 
> although the exact point of contamination was never established with 
> complete certainty."
> 
That is bollocks., It was bean sprouts. You don't use fenugreek to grow 
beansprouts

-- 
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

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#88018

On 6/16/26 10:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 16/06/2026 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. 
>>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
>>>>
>>> Entirely correct.
>>>
>>> And the Moroccan ones taste better.
>>
>> Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P
>>
> Oddly enough. EU regulations are far slacker than UK ones.
> 
> We get Moroccan chemical  tomatoes. Not dangerous 'organic' beansprouts

   In USA, "organic" now seems to mean "infested with
   deadly bacteria/fungi/molds".

> "In 2011, contaminated organic bean sprouts caused a massive and deadly 
> E. coli outbreak centered in northern Germany. The outbreak killed over 
> 30 people and sickened more than 3,000 across Europe. It remains one of 
> the worst foodborne illness epidemics in modern history."

   "Green" sure SOUNDS good, great propagandists ... but
   in PRACTICE ......

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#88025

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 22:11:46 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    In USA, "organic" now seems to mean "infested with deadly
>    bacteria/fungi/molds".

I do wonder about RFK and his raw milk thing. I grew up in dairy country 
and I know cows don't shower very often.

Sort of apropos: I read an article about Jenner a couple of days ago. 
While he was on to something like many people who follow The Science he 
wasn't above ignoring data. Many milkmaids had cowpox followed by 
smallpox. Inconvenient for the story. It's been reclassified but is 
Jenner's day cowpox was called 'variolae vaccinae'.  

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#88017

On 6/16/26 09:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-06-16 12:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 16/06/2026 11:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>>
>>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. 
>>> The only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
>>>
>> Entirely correct.
>>
>> And the Moroccan ones taste better.
> 
> Yes, the forbidden chemicals they use make a difference >:-P

   Yum !

   They started with DDT about 1940, dusted everything
   with it. Lifespans kept going up.

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#88023

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 22:09:13 -0400, c186282 wrote:


>    They started with DDT about 1940, dusted everything with it.
>    Lifespans kept going up.

I remember drive-in movies as a kid. A/C consisted of rolling down the 
windows letting the mosquitoes in. The guy who drove up and down the 
aisles with a DDT fogger was really popular. I'm still alive.

My career started in the plastics industry and I sometimes wondered how 
that was going to turn out. Some of the stuff is nasty, formaldehyde, 
tertiary amines for catalysts, plastisols, ...  You know that 'new car 
smell'? Better living through chemistry.

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#88011

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 12:34:54 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>> 
>> Because automation is cheaper?
>> 
>> 
> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The
> only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.

The US has embraced farm automation. Uncle Remus ain't out in the field 
picking cotton anymore; he's collecting welfare and having mostly peaceful 
gatherings.

The Roma tomato is a good example. It doesn't taste like much but it's 
been bred to have a squarish shape for more efficient packing and to be 
tough enough to survive mechanical harvesting. For transport from the 
fields the tomatoes are loaded into large open bins like huge bathtubs. 
They're piled as high as possible so the freeways sometimes resemble 
ketchup from the spillage.

Some factory operations have been automated but processes like shoe 
production were shipped to Asia. The first choice was the Mexican 
maquiladoras but then the uppity Mexicans wanted a living wage.

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#88024

On 6/16/26 14:09, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 12:34:54 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>> On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote:
>>>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap?
>>>
>>> Because automation is cheaper?
>>>
>>>
>> Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The
>> only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour.
> 
> The US has embraced farm automation. Uncle Remus ain't out in the field
> picking cotton anymore; he's collecting welfare and having mostly peaceful
> gatherings.

   His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for
   all the obsoleted humans. Actually, it looks
   pretty BAD for billions. No 'cyber-paradise',
   more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green
   factory ........

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#88033

On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 23:23:11 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    His 'welfare' will stop soon. NO good plan for all the obsoleted
>    humans. Actually, it looks pretty BAD for billions. No
>    'cyber-paradise', more like directions to the nearest Soylent Green
>    factory ........

It's harsh but a sizable tranche of the population has nothing to offer in 
the 21st century. There used to be jobs a person could take pride in but 
they're going fast. Some of the jobs sucked but there was the satisfaction 
of doing them well. Sort of the John Henry meme where he was faster than 
the steam drill. 

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