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Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT !

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  Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 01:49 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 07:54 +0200
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 02:12 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 09:03 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:25 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:22 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:14 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:45 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:21 -0400
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 04:20 +0000
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-14 14:27 +0200
              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 22:51 -0400
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 03:15 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:46 -0400
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:16 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-15 17:02 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 19:05 +0000
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-15 20:41 +0100
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 22:21 +0000
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 02:00 +0100
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 02:55 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:54 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:00 +0000
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:55 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:07 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:51 +0000
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 12:34 +0200
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:55 +0100
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:14 +0200
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:10 +0100
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:15 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 20:22 +0200
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 16:47 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:11 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:29 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:09 -0400
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:19 +0000
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:09 +0000
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 23:23 -0400
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 07:20 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:26 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 10:32 +0200
                                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:44 +0100
                                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 13:55 +0200
                                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 17:02 +0100
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:50 -0400
                                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 10:25 +0100
                          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 21:47 -0400
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:13 +0000
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
                            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 01:15 +0000
                                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:42 -0400
                              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:49 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:32 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:38 +0200
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:27 +0000
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:22 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2026-06-12 09:53 +0200
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:34 +0000
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:54 +0200
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:37 -0400
        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 06:42 +0000
          Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 04:18 -0400
            Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 20:21 +0000
              Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 23:09 -0400
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 06:22 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 03:57 -0400
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:38 +0000
                      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
                        Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:11 +0000
                Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-14 07:01 +0000
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 04:14 -0400
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-14 10:56 +0200
                  Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:40 +0000
                    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-12 13:26 +0000
    Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com> - 2026-06-17 15:43 +0800
      Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:28 -0400

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#87889

W dniu 12.06.2026 o 09:22, c186282 pisze:

>   Ubuntu got too weird for my tastes some years ago.
>   [...], too many "buy
>   our cloud/whatever shit" pushes. 

I never seen that on my Kubuntu 20.04.

-- 
Z totaliztycznym salutem!
Jacek Marcin Jaworski,  Pruszcz Gd., woj. Pomorskie, Polska 🇵🇱, UE 🇪🇺;
tel.: +48-609-170-742,   najlepiej w godz.: 5:00-5:55 lub 16:00-17:25;
<jmj@energokod.gda.pl>, gpg: 4A541AA7A6E872318B85D7F6A651CC39244B0BFA;
Domowa s. WWW:                             <https://energokod.gda.pl>;
Mini Netykieta:         <https://energokod.gda.pl/MiniNetykieta.html>;
Mailowa Samoobrona:             <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/pl>.
UWAGA:
NIE ZACIĄGAJ "UKRYTEGO DŁUGU"! PŁAĆ ZA PROG. FOSS I INFO. INTERNETOWE!
CZYTAJ DARMOWY: "17. Raport Totaliztyczny - Patroni Kontra Bankierzy":
<https://energokod.gda.pl/raporty-totaliztyczne/17.%20Patroni%20Kontra%20Bankierzy.pdf>

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#87914

On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 09:53:18 +0200, 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 wrote:

> W dniu 12.06.2026 o 09:22, c186282 pisze:
> 
>>   Ubuntu got too weird for my tastes some years ago.
>>   [...], too many "buy our cloud/whatever shit" pushes.
> 
> I never seen that on my Kubuntu 20.04.

I've never seen it with Ubuntu. There is the 'pro' thing that is free to 
individual users. When I upgraded to 26.04 yesterday I skipped that 
screen.

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#87894

On 2026-06-12 07:49, c186282 wrote:
> OK ... OpenSUSE has become just kinda TERRIBLE ... it's
> like stepping 25 years back.
> 
> The installer won't let you change the disks - BTRFS or
> nothing.

Not true. I installed it on ext4.

It is more difficult than before, it has changed, but it is there.

> The desktops offered are KDS (nasty), GNOME
> (worse) or an XCFC that will only use Wayland and will

Not true. There are two versions of XFCE, one experimental for wayland, 
and another for X, the traditional.

> not start properly in VirtualBox (unless you pick an
> 'invalid' option = 800x600)

Works fine in vmware.

> 
> AFTER install, theoretically Cinemmon and IceWM are
> to be had ... but IF you install them then even the
> cheat boot won't work. (if starting from XFCE)

I don't know what "cheat boot" is.

> 
> Other software and devel stuff - a VERY short list.

Not true. Search using "opi".

> 
> WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED ???
> 
> What an EMBARRASSMENT !
> 
> Is the "team" down to one old guy with a
> "Fallen And Can't Get Up" tag around
> his neck ? Shows how much a distro CAN
> rot away.
> 
> Yea, tried the offline AND online installers.

You did not try the upgrade.

> 
> Hell, even had to install YAST2 using Zypper.
> NO software center at all in XFCE. The one
> in KDE, "Discovery", only shows maybe ten
> percent of the actual software to be had ...
> gotta use YAST.

YaST is deprecated. NOT maintained. Abandoned.

The graphical installer is now "myrlyn" and has almost everything yast 
software package manager had, but different.


Oh, and Yast in graphical mode also works, without icons.

...

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#87916

Forget it. Squished it into an OVA and sent it
to the dark dimensions of my NAS. Then DELETED
the VM.

My appraisal - DON'T BOTHER.

OpenSUSE used to be SO good, SO complete, SO helpful.

Now ........

And frankly don't entirely trust the RPM universe
since RH sold out to IBM. If IBM wants me to be
a beta-tester it can PAY me.

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#87924

On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 23:37:58 -0400, c186282 wrote:

> And frankly don't entirely trust the RPM universe since RH sold out to
> IBM. If IBM wants me to be a beta-tester it can PAY me.

Your options are quite limited. I was going to put up MX in a VM. It may 
be me but the estimate was 2 or 3 hours to download the 2.8 GB Xfce iso. I 
canceled the download and may try again some time. I'm not a fan of 
anything that goes through SourceForge for downloads.

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#87929

I
On 6/13/26 02:42, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 23:37:58 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>> And frankly don't entirely trust the RPM universe since RH sold out to
>> IBM. If IBM wants me to be a beta-tester it can PAY me.
> 
> Your options are quite limited. I was going to put up MX in a VM. It may
> be me but the estimate was 2 or 3 hours to download the 2.8 GB Xfce iso. I
> canceled the download and may try again some time. I'm not a fan of
> anything that goes through SourceForge for downloads.

   MX is Very Good. Have it on several boxes and
   have for years.

   DO give it a shot. Great "middle" distro with
   some very useful add-on utils. Everything seems
   to Just Work as expected/needed. No BS.

   The XFCE version is probably "best" overall, but
   as I remember you're a KDE fanatic.

   Red Hat used to be good ... but after selling out
   to IBM, it and all the downstream versions became
   basically "beta testing" versions for IBM.

   As said, they can PAY ME to be a beta tester.

   Don't hate RH or IBM - indeed own some stock - but
   NOT gonna be their beta tester.

   Of course plenty of OTHER distros out there beyond MX,
   Linux and BSD. IF you have the bandwidth then try 'em
   and see what fits YOUR wants and needs. I'm not some
   religious crusader here ... whatever suits YOU.

   FLUSHED the disappointing OpenSUSE ... updated and
   made an OVA and removed it from my VMs. Will use the
   space to try other stuff. It'll remain on my most
   obscure NAS drive for awhile, until I want the space
   for something else. SO disappointed ! Remembered
   MUCH better !

   Hmm, ever tried GenToo ? I never did. Might be worth
   a look .......

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#87942

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 04:18:40 -0400, c186282 wrote:


>    The XFCE version is probably "best" overall, but as I remember you're
>    a KDE fanatic.

I've got KDE on the Fedora and Leap boxes. Don't need another KDE to 
confuse me. I had Debian/Xfce on my Linux box at work. Certainly usable 
and the trailing edge is a good place to be with a production machine. The 
real driver was I needed a 32 bit distro. 

>    Red Hat used to be good ... but after selling out to IBM, it and all
>    the downstream versions became basically "beta testing" versions for
>    IBM.

When I switched from Red Hat Linux to SuSE in 2002, RHL was sort of beta. 
Q.v. gcc 2.96.

https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.96.html

They had to follow up with another version since it wouldn't compile the 
kernel. The RHL Python brew also broke existing scripts. There were 
probably other problems I didn't run into. It only took a couple of 
decades before I would look at Fedora.

>    Of course plenty of OTHER distros out there beyond MX,
>    Linux and BSD. IF you have the bandwidth then try 'em and see what
>    fits YOUR wants and needs. I'm not some religious crusader here ...
>    whatever suits YOU.

Truth is for what I do Leap, Fedora, Ubuntu, and Mint/Cinnamon all work 
equally well. antiX with IceWM might not but that's sort of an experiment 
with the eeePC. That isn't and never was something you'd want to do a lot 
of work on.

I do keep an eye out for a distro when I get ambitious enough to redo the 
Ubuntu box. 26.04 is the end of the line for it. Even 26.10 supposedly 
will be filled with AI goodness.

>    Hmm, ever tried GenToo ? I never did. Might be worth a look .......

Nope. I don't distro hop as much as put different distros on different 
machines for variety. I've got other fish to fry than nursing Gentoo or 
one of the BSDs along. 

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#87945

On 6/13/26 16:21, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 04:18:40 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
> 
>>     The XFCE version is probably "best" overall, but as I remember you're
>>     a KDE fanatic.
> 
> I've got KDE on the Fedora and Leap boxes. Don't need another KDE to
> confuse me. I had Debian/Xfce on my Linux box at work. Certainly usable
> and the trailing edge is a good place to be with a production machine. The
> real driver was I needed a 32 bit distro.
> 
>>     Red Hat used to be good ... but after selling out to IBM, it and all
>>     the downstream versions became basically "beta testing" versions for
>>     IBM.
> 
> When I switched from Red Hat Linux to SuSE in 2002, RHL was sort of beta.
> Q.v. gcc 2.96.
> 
> https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.96.html
> 
> They had to follow up with another version since it wouldn't compile the
> kernel. The RHL Python brew also broke existing scripts. There were
> probably other problems I didn't run into. It only took a couple of
> decades before I would look at Fedora.
> 
>>     Of course plenty of OTHER distros out there beyond MX,
>>     Linux and BSD. IF you have the bandwidth then try 'em and see what
>>     fits YOUR wants and needs. I'm not some religious crusader here ...
>>     whatever suits YOU.
> 
> Truth is for what I do Leap, Fedora, Ubuntu, and Mint/Cinnamon all work
> equally well. antiX with IceWM might not but that's sort of an experiment
> with the eeePC. That isn't and never was something you'd want to do a lot
> of work on.
> 
> I do keep an eye out for a distro when I get ambitious enough to redo the
> Ubuntu box. 26.04 is the end of the line for it. Even 26.10 supposedly
> will be filled with AI goodness.
> 
>>     Hmm, ever tried GenToo ? I never did. Might be worth a look .......
> 
> Nope. I don't distro hop as much as put different distros on different
> machines for variety. I've got other fish to fry than nursing Gentoo or
> one of the BSDs along.


   Distro-hopping ... means throwing away more work
   that I'd like.

   Distro TESTING however ... that's something VBox is
   good for.

   After some fooling around for years, MX is now my
   go-to. Middle-of-the-road, you can easily add to
   it or subtract from it. Good utilities selection,
   seems to run on anything even more reliably than Mint.
   Guess there's a reason it's been hovering near or at
   the top of the DistroWatch list for years on end.

   Did have a Manjaro box for awhile. A speck too weird
   but, with a few tweaks, it worked OK. Until, after
   about a year, the whole updates thing exploded to
   hell and NONE of the suggested fixes helped. Had
   to flush it. The box is now ... you guessed it.

   Now for a "small" Linux - ANTIX - but DO have to
   replace all those utterly dismal and depressing
   Greek commie backgrounds with something more
   cheerful  :-)

   Still interested in trying GenToo ... never have.
   Some describe it as "Linux-ish" though technically
   it's a Linux.

   BSDs ... have had best experiences with Dragonfly and
   Ghost. Free/Net/Open ... great for servers but not the
   best 'desktop' experience.

   Not REALLY what they're meant for however. Did run one
   my office servers on Free for about a year - solid
   and secure if not exactly 'cutting edge'. BSDs are
   always behind when it comes to drivers. Still, now,
   I'd pick Free over the Gnome-infested CENTOS.

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#87950

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    Distro TESTING however ... that's something VBox is good for.

kvm/QEMU for me. I know you had problems with it but I haven't. 

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#87953

On 6/14/26 02:22, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>     Distro TESTING however ... that's something VBox is good for.
> 
> kvm/QEMU for me. I know you had problems with it but I haven't.

   KVM/Xen and friends ... works but it's
   just nasty/crude compared to VirtualBox.

   Used 'em all on my office servers.

   Alas VBox, of late, has become kinda weird.
   MAYbe they'll fix it, MAYbe they'll only do
   it if you pay lots of money.

   We'll see shortly.

   VMs can be very useful. Great for testing new
   distros ... but can also be used to turn your
   expensive super-server into MANY de-facto
   machines. Everybody got USED to this, but NOW
   that path is NOT as clear - unless you want
   to spend vast quantities of money. MIGHT be
   cheaper to buy 10 actual boxes instead .....

   For the record, do NOT think it's a great idea
   to VM one machine into 10. Hardware FAILS ...
   and then it'll take your WHOLE operation down.
   Been there, seen it, smelled the smoke coming
   out of the server.

   Yea, ACTUAL smoke - higher-end board too.

   Just this week I tested OpenSUSE. After allocating
   what I *thought* would be enough fake disk space
   I saw I'd already used up like 85% plus. VBox ...
   just move a slider and wait maybe ten minutes.
   KVM/Xen/etc ... it's editing fiddly config files
   and then two or three weird/dangerous ops to
   convince the OS to use the extra space.

   So, guess which solution I go with ....

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#87965

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 03:57:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:


>    Alas VBox, of late, has become kinda weird.
>    MAYbe they'll fix it, MAYbe they'll only do it if you pay lots of
>    money.

I didn't try really hard but VB on Mint didn't go smoothly even after 
blacklisting the kvm module. It bitched about dependencies that looked 
like they would conflict with installed packages. No need when 'apt 
install virt-manager' goes smoothly.

>    For the record, do NOT think it's a great idea to VM one machine into
>    10. Hardware FAILS ...
>    and then it'll take your WHOLE operation down. Been there, seen it,
>    smelled the smoke coming out of the server.
> 
>    Yea, ACTUAL smoke - higher-end board too.

I had a long discussion with one of our senior implementation people. 
Mirroring a VM to another VM on the same box doesn't cover your ass very 
well. 

We used VMs for testing in house. The discussions could get heated if 
someone shutdown a VM they didn't think anyone was using to fire up 
another one. 


>    Just this week I tested OpenSUSE. After allocating what I *thought*
>    would be enough fake disk space I saw I'd already used up like 85%
>    plus. VBox ... just move a slider and wait maybe ten minutes.
>    KVM/Xen/etc ... it's editing fiddly config files and then two or
>    three weird/dangerous ops to convince the OS to use the extra space.
> 
>    So, guess which solution I go with ....

I skimped with MX and gave it 20 GB. It used 11 G, which is okay for my 
purposed. I also gave it 8 GB of RAM and so far it's used under 1 GB. Not 
bad.

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#87977

On 6/14/26 14:38, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 03:57:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
> 
>>     Alas VBox, of late, has become kinda weird.
>>     MAYbe they'll fix it, MAYbe they'll only do it if you pay lots of
>>     money.
> 
> I didn't try really hard but VB on Mint didn't go smoothly even after
> blacklisting the kvm module. It bitched about dependencies that looked
> like they would conflict with installed packages. No need when 'apt
> install virt-manager' goes smoothly.
> 
>>     For the record, do NOT think it's a great idea to VM one machine into
>>     10. Hardware FAILS ...
>>     and then it'll take your WHOLE operation down. Been there, seen it,
>>     smelled the smoke coming out of the server.
>>
>>     Yea, ACTUAL smoke - higher-end board too.
> 
> I had a long discussion with one of our senior implementation people.
> Mirroring a VM to another VM on the same box doesn't cover your ass very
> well.
> 
> We used VMs for testing in house. The discussions could get heated if
> someone shutdown a VM they didn't think anyone was using to fire up
> another one.


   Last VM servers I set up, used a very minimal Deb as the
   host and then went from there. It was pretty successful
   but frankly I pref the dedicated-boxes model - more robust.

   Alas ... with the import/tariff wars and lack of memory
   chips, the One Good Box with several VMs on it MAY be
   the more affordable model now.

   Oh wait, just pay M$ to be your "servers" and "backup"
   and "working storage" - that's sure to work out in the
   end, until Xi taps the Big Shiny Red Button on his desk :-)


>>     Just this week I tested OpenSUSE. After allocating what I *thought*
>>     would be enough fake disk space I saw I'd already used up like 85%
>>     plus. VBox ... just move a slider and wait maybe ten minutes.
>>     KVM/Xen/etc ... it's editing fiddly config files and then two or
>>     three weird/dangerous ops to convince the OS to use the extra space.
>>
>>     So, guess which solution I go with ....
> 
> I skimped with MX and gave it 20 GB. It used 11 G, which is okay for my
> purposed. I also gave it 8 GB of RAM and so far it's used under 1 GB. Not
> bad.

   If you're using VBox then it's super-easy to expand the
   fake disk space. KVM/Xen ... NOT so much.

   ANYhow ... try it out. Don't think you will be disappointed.
   They pretty much Got It Just Right.

   I've tried almost EVERYTHING out there over the past years.
   Some are a little better or worse at whatever. MX seems
   to be the ideal middle-point - add, subtract, tweak a
   bit ... an easy reach. It's where I've settled unless
   I'm intentionally looking for "adventure".

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#87988

On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 01:27:53 -0400, c186282 wrote:

>    I've tried almost EVERYTHING out there over the past years.
>    Some are a little better or worse at whatever. MX seems to be the
>    ideal middle-point - add, subtract, tweak a bit ... an easy reach.
>    It's where I've settled unless I'm intentionally looking for
>    "adventure".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp1W5w6eJi8

The guy makes some good points. Mint for beginners. Ubuntu if you plan to 
work in the field since Ubuntu Server is widely used. He uses Fedora, and 
that also has RHEL in the wings. He loathes Omarchy. Said he was curious 
about CatchOS but is skeptical about it's top rankings on Distrowatch. If 
you're going to use an Arch derivative and really want to learn about 
Linux administration go directly to Arch. Said he used it but it does tend 
to brick sooner or later. 

He mentioned he's always been tempted to try NixOS but doesn't want to 
learn a specialized language to set up a system however he found it 
interesting France decided to use it. For someone looking for a job very 
few organizations use it so being a NixOS wizard doesn't do much on a CV.

I don't think he even mentioned SUSE in passing. 

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#87951

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>   Still interested in trying GenToo ... never have.
>   Some describe it as "Linux-ish" though technically
>   it's a Linux.

I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".  It's a
"you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're compiling
everything as well.  But it runs all the same stuff and has all the same
packages available as any other distro.

The portage package manager is super powerful and flexible.  It has a learning
curve though.  After almost 10 years with it, I can't go back. I find yum/dnf on
Rocky very limiting, and apt has always felt brain-dead to me.


--
Sent from my Personal DECstation 5000/25

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#87954

On 6/14/26 03:01, Mechanicjay wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 23:09:35 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>    Still interested in trying GenToo ... never have.
>>    Some describe it as "Linux-ish" though technically
>>    it's a Linux.
> 
> I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".


   Look on the net. It's a bit "different", hence ...


> It's a
> "you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're compiling
> everything as well.  But it runs all the same stuff and has all the same
> packages available as any other distro.
> 
> The portage package manager is super powerful and flexible.  It has a learning
> curve though.  After almost 10 years with it, I can't go back. I find yum/dnf on
> Rocky very limiting, and apt has always felt brain-dead to me.

   Don't love the "portage" idea ... smells
   of antique BSD distros.

   IMHO, put it all UP FRONT ALL THE TIME. Don't
   "port" ANYTHING.

   But, still GONNA give it a try. MAYbe I'll like it.
   Too many of the traditional distros have become
   a bit weird for no good reasons. Gotta cultivate
   possible alts, Just In Case.

   SLACK is also there - but it IS a lot of work.
   Getting way too OLD for that. "Just Works OK"
   is my goal now.

   Got Linux distros when they still came on floppies.
   Not my first rodeo, so to speak.

   Not sure how I didn't give GenToo a try before ... went
   to the BSDs instead.

   Anyway, we'll see .......

   Still waiting for a modern updated version of VMS.
   It'll never happen  :-) Have this huge thick small-
   print manual ........

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#87955

mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) wrote:
>I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".  It's a
>"you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're compiling
>everything as well.

I don't see any advantages of that, other that you have untested
binaries and a big chance of having a broken toolchain, and that
you're unlikely to have the deep understanding of what you're doing
that the distribution people have.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE   |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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#87966

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 07:01:50 -0000 (UTC), Mechanicjay wrote:

> I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".
> It's a "you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're
> compiling everything as well.  But it runs all the same stuff and has
> all the same packages available as any other distro.

The thrill of building everything from tarballs wore off about 25 years 
ago for me.

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#87976

On 6/14/26 14:40, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 07:01:50 -0000 (UTC), Mechanicjay wrote:
> 
>> I run gentoo everywhere.  I'm not sure what only makes it "Linux-ish".
>> It's a "you only get what you install" distro.  Which means, you're
>> compiling everything as well.  But it runs all the same stuff and has
>> all the same packages available as any other distro.
> 
> The thrill of building everything from tarballs wore off about 25 years
> ago for me.

   Fully agree.

   However GenToo seems designed for those who DO still
   want to ultra-customize, so it's good it's still out
   there.

   After reading-up a bit I decided NOT to do GenToo - am
   too old now for so much fiddly, maybe volatile, stuff.
   Leave that for the teens/20s crowd.

   TRYING to download a Solaris deriv called "Tribblix", fair
   reviews. The download link is VERY slow alas and has broken
   twice now. There is "Tribblix" and "OmniTribblix" ... the
   second one Sounded Better. Now trying the 'regular' one.

   Also fails about 20% thru. Will see if there are alts.

   No, don't hate Solaris. Not always everyone's proverbial
   cup-o-tea but it's a solid lineage. Used it on a limited
   basis a few years back. Kinda COMPLICATED partition
   spectrum alas, seems overkill unless maybe you're
   setting up a petabyte server.

   Anyway, if 'Tribblix' won't download I also got the
   latest OpenIndiana and will see how/if that's improved
   over the past few years.

   DID try "Plan9" once. I sort of "get it", but it's
   really not for *A* box ... more a 'cluster' system.
   Seems they DID port it to the latest IBM mini-
   mainframes a few years ago - so it's still out there
   doing its special thing :-)

   STILL hoping for a modern-tweaked VMS. That was
   WAY ahead of its time ... and would not be all
   so out-of-date even now. Could natively do
   international cluster/cloud over acoustic
   modems.

   Also have this 4" thick small-print manual ...

   Alas ... will "AI" obsolete all human programmers
   and systems ??? Stay tuned - but expect the worst.
   Human made/coded ... likely to become a 'fetish'
   like valve HAM sets. THEN they will decree it as
   a "security risk" because there aren't 10,000
   spyware bits included.

   IMHO, never let good systems die.

   SMALL end - still have a CP/M-86 VM. Another
   Good System. DID come across a couple of
   modern Z-80 (compatible) "kit" boards. MIGHT
   spend the money. CP/M and old DOS were
   "just good enough" for a bunch of things.
   Real Z-80 chips can still be had too if
   you're that ambitious.

   Do have a ZX-81 under The Heap somewhere
   but that really wasn't wired for much
   expansion. You CAN buy refurbished S-100
   boxes now, but $$$ for the most part and
   good luck with the peripherials.

   FPGAs can be programmed to emulate almost
   any old chip, as or more fast than the
   originals. Even saw a TI-990(0) one last
   year sometime - FUNKY, but good.

   Ah, JUST got 'Tribblix' regular - after 1pm.
   Will try it tomorrow. Note the site has NO
   "contact" link - can't even complain about
   the deathly slow/fragile downlink. THINK
   it's mostly just ONE guy, Peter Tribble,
   not a collaborative team. Not so great,
   maybe not so likely to survive. Still have
   the latest OpenIndiana though ...

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#87902

On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 01:49:42 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>OK ... OpenSUSE has become just kinda TERRIBLE ... it's

I was a long time OpenSuse user and gave up on it about 9 years ago.

For a long time it was the best distro that Just Worked (tm).  I started getting
annoyed at various decisions.  The deprication of Yast, SuseFirewall, loading my
system up with all sorts of btrfs services along with severe bloat for no
discernable reason.

I'm still daily driving my X61 Tablet, and it just became painful to run Suse on
it due to bloat.

Anyway, I'm 100% on Gentoo now everywhere.  Is it "better"?  I don't know.  It
does piss me off less, which is really my goal when it comes to my computers.

YMMV

--
Sent from my Personal DECstation 5000/25

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#88034

Yes, hardly an alternative to Centos.
Tumbleweed is okay, so why is Leap an ebola turd?

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