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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87875 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-06-12 01:49 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-06-18 04:28 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 97 — 12 participants |
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Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 01:49 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 07:54 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 02:12 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-12 09:03 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:25 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:22 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:14 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:45 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:21 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 04:20 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-14 14:27 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 22:51 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 03:15 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:46 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:16 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-15 17:02 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 19:05 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-15 20:41 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 22:21 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 02:00 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 02:55 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:54 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:00 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:55 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:07 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:51 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 12:34 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:55 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:14 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:10 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:15 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-16 20:22 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 16:47 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:11 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:29 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 22:09 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:19 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-16 18:09 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 23:23 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 07:20 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:26 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 10:32 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:44 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 13:55 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 17:02 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:37 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 19:14 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-18 20:50 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:36 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:45 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-19 00:22 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:34 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-19 00:01 +0000
Communism ???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-06-18 21:46 -0700
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:41 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:39 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:50 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 10:25 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 19:33 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-16 21:47 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-17 03:13 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 01:15 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:42 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:49 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-18 23:51 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:32 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:38 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 06:27 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 03:22 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2026-06-12 09:53 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-12 19:34 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-12 11:54 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-12 23:37 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 06:42 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 04:18 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 20:21 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-13 23:09 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 06:22 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 03:57 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:38 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 07:11 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-14 07:01 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-14 04:14 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-14 10:56 +0200
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-14 18:40 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-15 01:27 -0400
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! mechanicjay@sol.smbfc.net (Mechanicjay) - 2026-06-12 13:26 +0000
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com> - 2026-06-17 15:43 +0800
Re: Leap-16 ... Oh SHIT ! c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-18 04:28 -0400
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 10:25 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1110diu$2g9jb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88053 |
On 18/06/2026 09:50, c186282 wrote: >> >> In today's paper is a picture of a poster at a bus stop that says: >> >> Isn't it brilliant that one man gets to be a >> trillionaire instead of everyone having food? >> False logic. Typical of the Left. 'money' is not 'wealth' >> Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article >> talking about what a hero Elon Musk is. > > > Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂 False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good' -- "It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <LLWYR.161410$Hs3.141261@fx35.iad> |
| In reply to | #88055 |
On 2026-06-18, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 18/06/2026 09:50, c186282 wrote: > >> Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂 > > False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good' It depends on your definition of success. I've spent my life avoiding what many people call "success". I'm doing all right by my definition, though. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation / \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 19:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n9ivh2FaeprU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88055 |
On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:25:50 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> Being in the business section, the photo accompanies an article >>> talking about what a hero Elon Musk is. >> >> >> Well, Elon IS good ... don't get all jealous 🙂 > > False Logic. Typical of the Right. Success is not ipso facto 'good' Agreed. Making your money by shorting the Bank of England like Soros or running casinos and whorehouse like Adelson isn't good. Speculators and market manipulators are scum. Developing real products like Musk, even if playing the system, is good. I'll even gove props to Bezos. I remember when Amazon was books and CDs and often promised more than they could deliver. I preferred Barnes & Noble back then since they had what they sold in stock. Many dotcom ventures failed; Amazon didn't. I'm not a fan but the Walton family also built something.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-16 21:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <6UydnRG_f_VKYaz3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88002 |
On 6/16/26 06:34, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On 2026-06-15 21:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 15/06/2026 20:05, rbowman wrote: >>> Why spend money on automation when labor is cheap? >> >> Because automation is cheaper? >> > > Picking cherry tomatoes in Spain is paid 80€/day. Morocco, 8€/day. The > only solution for Spain is to automate to compete. Ditch labour. It is coming. However robots that can quickly, delicately, pick strawberries and similar just barely exist. They would also be a HUGE up-front investment at this point - and could be seriously obsolete long before the loans are paid off. 'AI' alone won't do it - it's also the rest of the bot. I've seen vids of some contenders ... but they're bulky and SLOW compared to near-slave humans. Also have a prob reliably detecting the perfectly ripe ones, or rotten ones. So, quick eval, NOT WORTH THE INVESTMENT at this time. Just put up with the humans. T Ten years of improvements, then maybe. Strawberries, cherries, olives, even lettuce, these are sort of "luxury" foods. So, you pay the luxury price until it finally becomes too high. High-density grain-based stuff, meats, those are what will keep people alive and kicking. Work on better automation for wheat/corn/barley/oat fields first. There are huge kinda all-purpose harvesting machines for such fields already, but they're very complicated and could surely be given more smarts and mechanical refinement. "Cheap" "smart" AND "functional" is the goal. Now, WHAT to do with all the obsoleted humans ? Nobody EVER wants to answer that question. I see vast fields of grey Soviet-style housing blocks, long ration lines, and then the rations get smaller and smaller. THAT makes the 'economic logic' whether you're a 'capitalist' OR 'socialist' or anything else. The ultimate conclusion will be that we don't NEED 8 billion people, so .....
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-17 03:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n9ehmvFk6lqU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88014 |
On Tue, 16 Jun 2026 21:47:19 -0400, c186282 wrote: > It is coming. However robots that can quickly, delicately, pick > strawberries and similar just barely exist. They would also be a HUGE > up-front investment at this point - and could be seriously obsolete > long before the loans are paid off. Strawberries are a challenge. https://orchard-rite.com/tree-shakers Yuo can find youtube videos of them in action. like Roma tomatoes cultivars that can be shaken out of the tree without damage are a parallel development. > High-density grain-based stuff, meats, those are what will keep > people alive and kicking. Work on better automation for > wheat/corn/barley/oat fields first. > There are huge kinda all-purpose harvesting machines for such fields > already, but they're very complicated and could surely be given more > smarts and mechanical refinement. "Cheap" "smart" AND "functional" is > the goal. Getting there. https://www.kubota.com/innovation/our-stories/autonomous-combine- harvester.html Sounds good to me. I never operated a combine but I've put in a few miles dragging a harrow around. Stare at mountain 5 miles away. Get to the end of the field, turn around, stare at another mountain 7 miles away. Rinse and repeat all day. I turned too sharp on one pass and pinched the tire. The wouldn't have been bad but it was filled with a calcium chloride solution for weight. Every rotation on the way back to the barn I got another chloride shower. Great fun.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-17 10:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <110tr4v$1os2e$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #88014 |
On 17/06/2026 02:47, c186282 wrote: > Now, WHAT to do with all the obsoleted humans ? Nobody > EVER wants to answer that question. I see vast fields > of grey Soviet-style housing blocks, long ration lines, > and then the rations get smaller and smaller. THAT makes > the 'economic logic' whether you're a 'capitalist' OR > 'socialist' or anything else. The ultimate conclusion > will be that we don't NEED 8 billion people, so ..... ...start a war with Ukraine! -- I would rather have questions that cannot be answered... ...than to have answers that cannot be questioned Richard Feynman
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-17 19:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <yGCYR.185085$yrMe.69425@fx18.iad> |
| In reply to | #88014 |
On 2026-06-17, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > Strawberries, cherries, olives, even lettuce, these are > sort of "luxury" foods. So, you pay the luxury price > until it finally becomes too high. My wife just got back from a shopping trip. One store was charging over $5 for a head of lettuce - while the others were selling it for 79 cents. One trick used by grocery chains is to charge more for the same products in the poor part of town, since the people there likely don't have cars or much access to transit. It's not exactly a free market. And then there's "dynamic pricing", where different people are charged different prices, presumably based on the dossier that the grocers have built on them. Makes you want to pay cash - at least until facial recognition comes in... > Now, WHAT to do with all the obsoleted humans ? Nobody > EVER wants to answer that question. I see vast fields > of grey Soviet-style housing blocks, long ration lines, > and then the rations get smaller and smaller. THAT makes > the 'economic logic' whether you're a 'capitalist' OR > 'socialist' or anything else. The provincial government here has overridden the planning departments of numerous local cities in order to ram through re-zoning for higher density. We're seeing great amounts of cookie-cutter housing being built, plus increasing numbers of high-rise towers - none of which is affordable. > The ultimate conclusion > will be that we don't NEED 8 billion people, so ..... Here we're obsessed with population growth, and have built an entire economic model around it. The only thing that will make the leaders question whether we need 8 billion people is the coming Malthusian crash. But even then, they're going to be OK, so why should they care? More taxpayers, more consumers to sell to... what's not to like? -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation / \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 01:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n9gv55FrdnlU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88041 |
On Wed, 17 Jun 2026 19:35:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > One trick used by grocery chains is to charge more for the same products > in the poor part of town, since the people there likely don't have cars > or much access to transit. > It's not exactly a free market. I the '80s there was a coffee shortage, a failed harvest or something. I don't remember the details but I was working in Ft. Wayne and the price of coffee in the supermarkets doubled and there wasn't much of a selection on the shelves. Oe weekend I want down to Indianapolis and found there was no coffee shortage. Needless to say I stocked up.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 04:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <xuqcnUdbGvsYMq73nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88043 |
On 6/17/26 21:15, rbowman wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jun 2026 19:35:58 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> One trick used by grocery chains is to charge more for the same products >> in the poor part of town, since the people there likely don't have cars >> or much access to transit. >> It's not exactly a free market. Nasty but, well, it's BUSINESS. The NUMBERS are what drive the paradigms. 'Compassion'/'fairness' ... Ha Ha Ha ! That's NEVER how it's worked. However I've shopped for the basics both in the shitty part of town and the elite part of town. Not THAT much diff, here at least. You WILL pay a bit more at 'convenience stores' in the 'elite' area however ... not so much at the grocery store. > I the '80s there was a coffee shortage, a failed harvest or something. I > don't remember the details but I was working in Ft. Wayne and the price of > coffee in the supermarkets doubled and there wasn't much of a selection on > the shelves. > > Oe weekend I want down to Indianapolis and found there was no coffee > shortage. Needless to say I stocked up. "Shortages" these days seem to be more FABRICATED than real. Even thus, note how many basic suppliers are FOLDING. There IS an underlying economic problem ... been there for a LONG time now, COVID and even before. MY area is reasonably "well to do" - not super-rich but doing OK. Still, my basic grocery bills - and I don't buy much or 'elite' stuff - have gone up at about 50% the past five years. $45 became $60+ for the exact same 10-items-or-less tote I buy. OK ... LOVE cashew nuts ... the price of THOSE has gone up like 200%. It's not just Trump or Joe or Covid or whatever either. Basic white meats - my main thing - are kinda stable.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 04:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <xuqcnUZbGvuhLK73nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #88041 |
On 6/17/26 15:35, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-06-17, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > >> Strawberries, cherries, olives, even lettuce, these are >> sort of "luxury" foods. So, you pay the luxury price >> until it finally becomes too high. > > My wife just got back from a shopping trip. One store was > charging over $5 for a head of lettuce - while the others > were selling it for 79 cents. Lettuce IS a "luxury" food ... almost zero nutrition but requires BIG field and LOTS of water and LOTS of human labor. > One trick used by grocery chains is to charge more for the > same products in the poor part of town, since the people > there likely don't have cars or much access to transit. > It's not exactly a free market. > > And then there's "dynamic pricing", where different people are > charged different prices, presumably based on the dossier that > the grocers have built on them. Makes you want to pay cash - > at least until facial recognition comes in... > >> Now, WHAT to do with all the obsoleted humans ? Nobody >> EVER wants to answer that question. I see vast fields >> of grey Soviet-style housing blocks, long ration lines, >> and then the rations get smaller and smaller. THAT makes >> the 'economic logic' whether you're a 'capitalist' OR >> 'socialist' or anything else. > > The provincial government here has overridden the planning > departments of numerous local cities in order to ram through > re-zoning for higher density. We're seeing great amounts of > cookie-cutter housing being built, plus increasing numbers > of high-rise towers - none of which is affordable. > >> The ultimate conclusion >> will be that we don't NEED 8 billion people, so ..... > > Here we're obsessed with population growth, and have built > an entire economic model around it. The only thing that > will make the leaders question whether we need 8 billion > people is the coming Malthusian crash. But even then, > they're going to be OK, so why should they care? More > taxpayers, more consumers to sell to... what's not to like? Ummm ... don't get TOO obsessed with Malthus. He never factored an expanding economic base or improved tech into his models properly. The REAL danger now is "AI" replacing a billion+ humans. Have NEVER seen a plan for dealing with all those obsolete humans. Look bad, VERY bad.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-18 18:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <LLWYR.161411$Hs3.147735@fx35.iad> |
| In reply to | #88052 |
On 2026-06-18, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > On 6/17/26 15:35, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> Here we're obsessed with population growth, and have built >> an entire economic model around it. The only thing that >> will make the leaders question whether we need 8 billion >> people is the coming Malthusian crash. But even then, >> they're going to be OK, so why should they care? More >> taxpayers, more consumers to sell to... what's not to like? > > Ummm ... don't get TOO obsessed with Malthus. > He never factored an expanding economic base > or improved tech into his models properly. Certainly those factors mitigate the effects. But there are certain hard limits inherent in the Earth being finite. If our population continues to double every 40 years, then in 1800 years the entire mass of the planet will consist of people crawling over each other like a swarm of bees. > The REAL danger now is "AI" replacing a billion+ > humans. Have NEVER seen a plan for dealing with > all those obsolete humans. > > Look bad, VERY bad. "Don't worry - they can't really feel pain." Have you noticed how the term "quality of life" has been replaced by "livability"? -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation / \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
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| Date | 2026-06-18 23:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n9jejeFd22iU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #88062 |
On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 18:26:51 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Certainly those factors mitigate the effects. But there are certain > hard limits inherent in the Earth being finite. > If our population continues to double every 40 years, then in 1800 years > the entire mass of the planet will consist of people crawling over each > other like a swarm of bees. Milford Wolpoff is a paleoanthropologist who prosed a multiregional model rather than the Out of Africa one put forward by Stringer and others. I may have the wrong locale but I think it was Java. He remarked that a problem for looking for ancient evidence was you were always digging in somebody's backyard. There are 3,100 people per square mile, the tightest packed island in the world. * unless you consider Mumbai's historical seven islands.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-12 19:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n93571FqnmpU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87886 |
On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 03:14:57 -0400, c186282 wrote: > Installed "yast" from "Discovery" - didn't even have its real name. > Whether you evoke "yast" or "yast2" on the CL you get the SAME > curses-based interface. The old GUI version ... does it still exist > ??? Officially? No. According to Carlos if you upgraded from Leap 15.x the support libraries are still in place and the GUI works. I believe it is still available in Tumbleweed, which is upstream of SLE. Leap 16 is sort of like the old CentOS that was downstream of RHEL. Companies would have a couple of RHEL licenses but most people would use the free CentOS for compatibility. People were pissed when Stream moved upstream of RHEL and downstream of Fedora and created Rocky.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-12 11:38 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <kl0tfmxnjb.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87879 |
On 2026-06-12 08:22, rbowman wrote: > On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 01:49:42 -0400, c186282 wrote: > > >> OpenSUSE used to be kinda 'Cadillac'. Used it for a LONG time - desktops >> and servers. Now it seems to intentionally work against your desires - >> as shriveled as a 99 year olds testicles. > > Leap 16 is now downstream of SLE with some additional community packages. Leap 15 too. All of Leap is that way, in fact. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-12 06:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n91n71Fjf5pU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87875 |
On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 01:49:42 -0400, c186282 wrote: > IMHO, if you want RPMs, Fedora. Had serious update probs with the latest > one though - even NOT in a virtual machine. They know, they can't seem > to get it fixed properly, hangs about a third of the way through. You seem to have all sorts of problems. I haven't had a problem with Fedora. I usually grab the beta when it's available and that hasn't been a problem though I might get more updates than waiting for the release. I updated to Ubuntu 26.04 today. It took several hours but everything I tried so far seems to work as before except the Python venvs since it went to 3.14. I did have a problem with Playwright since it doesn't support 26.04 yet. There's a funky workaround that sort of works.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-12 03:22 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1NqdnXv-U74lLrb3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87880 |
On 6/12/26 02:27, rbowman wrote: > On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 01:49:42 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> IMHO, if you want RPMs, Fedora. Had serious update probs with the latest >> one though - even NOT in a virtual machine. They know, they can't seem >> to get it fixed properly, hangs about a third of the way through. > > You seem to have all sorts of problems. I haven't had a problem with > Fedora. I usually grab the beta when it's available and that hasn't been a > problem though I might get more updates than waiting for the release. I *do* seem to be having lots of problems with the latest distros. Try a few as VMs, but with Fedora it was a bare-metal install on an Intel based box - TWO actually. > I updated to Ubuntu 26.04 today. It took several hours but everything I > tried so far seems to work as before except the Python venvs since it went > to 3.14. I did have a problem with Playwright since it doesn't support > 26.04 yet. There's a funky workaround that sort of works. Ubuntu got too weird for my tastes some years ago. Too many pointless diffs from Deb, too many "buy our cloud/whatever shit" pushes. Pure Deb is still "ok" and MX is even better. A gazillion other Deb derivs out there too, pick yer poison. Removed a good Deb13 VM so I could play with SUSE. It was good enough though that I made an "appliance" out of it ... a VDI and OVA to suit whatever ... before zapping it from my VBox.
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| From | 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-12 09:53 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <yPadncXreJdmJ7b3nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87887 |
W dniu 12.06.2026 o 09:22, c186282 pisze: > Ubuntu got too weird for my tastes some years ago. > [...], too many "buy > our cloud/whatever shit" pushes. I never seen that on my Kubuntu 20.04. -- Z totaliztycznym salutem! Jacek Marcin Jaworski, Pruszcz Gd., woj. Pomorskie, Polska 🇵🇱, UE 🇪🇺; tel.: +48-609-170-742, najlepiej w godz.: 5:00-5:55 lub 16:00-17:25; <jmj@energokod.gda.pl>, gpg: 4A541AA7A6E872318B85D7F6A651CC39244B0BFA; Domowa s. WWW: <https://energokod.gda.pl>; Mini Netykieta: <https://energokod.gda.pl/MiniNetykieta.html>; Mailowa Samoobrona: <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/pl>. UWAGA: NIE ZACIĄGAJ "UKRYTEGO DŁUGU"! PŁAĆ ZA PROG. FOSS I INFO. INTERNETOWE! CZYTAJ DARMOWY: "17. Raport Totaliztyczny - Patroni Kontra Bankierzy": <https://energokod.gda.pl/raporty-totaliztyczne/17.%20Patroni%20Kontra%20Bankierzy.pdf>
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-12 19:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n935aoFqnmpU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87889 |
On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 09:53:18 +0200, 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 wrote: > W dniu 12.06.2026 o 09:22, c186282 pisze: > >> Ubuntu got too weird for my tastes some years ago. >> [...], too many "buy our cloud/whatever shit" pushes. > > I never seen that on my Kubuntu 20.04. I've never seen it with Ubuntu. There is the 'pro' thing that is free to individual users. When I upgraded to 26.04 yesterday I skipped that screen.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-12 11:54 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <nj1tfmxmqg.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87875 |
On 2026-06-12 07:49, c186282 wrote: > OK ... OpenSUSE has become just kinda TERRIBLE ... it's > like stepping 25 years back. > > The installer won't let you change the disks - BTRFS or > nothing. Not true. I installed it on ext4. It is more difficult than before, it has changed, but it is there. > The desktops offered are KDS (nasty), GNOME > (worse) or an XCFC that will only use Wayland and will Not true. There are two versions of XFCE, one experimental for wayland, and another for X, the traditional. > not start properly in VirtualBox (unless you pick an > 'invalid' option = 800x600) Works fine in vmware. > > AFTER install, theoretically Cinemmon and IceWM are > to be had ... but IF you install them then even the > cheat boot won't work. (if starting from XFCE) I don't know what "cheat boot" is. > > Other software and devel stuff - a VERY short list. Not true. Search using "opi". > > WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED ??? > > What an EMBARRASSMENT ! > > Is the "team" down to one old guy with a > "Fallen And Can't Get Up" tag around > his neck ? Shows how much a distro CAN > rot away. > > Yea, tried the offline AND online installers. You did not try the upgrade. > > Hell, even had to install YAST2 using Zypper. > NO software center at all in XFCE. The one > in KDE, "Discovery", only shows maybe ten > percent of the actual software to be had ... > gotta use YAST. YaST is deprecated. NOT maintained. Abandoned. The graphical installer is now "myrlyn" and has almost everything yast software package manager had, but different. Oh, and Yast in graphical mode also works, without icons. ... -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-12 23:37 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MY6cnV1K1r3rTbH3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87894 |
Forget it. Squished it into an OVA and sent it to the dark dimensions of my NAS. Then DELETED the VM. My appraisal - DON'T BOTHER. OpenSUSE used to be SO good, SO complete, SO helpful. Now ........ And frankly don't entirely trust the RPM universe since RH sold out to IBM. If IBM wants me to be a beta-tester it can PAY me.
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