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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 84 — 16 participants |
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Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn111ko6h.q66.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #87258 |
On 2026-05-29, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > On 5/28/26 22:50, Robert Riches wrote: >> On 2026-05-28, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> >>> I still have a few NON-digital phone sets. >>> Plug in - they Just Work. >> >> Also, if you need private point-to-point phone capability >> (without ringer), two old-style phone sets and a 9V battery >> suffice. Just connect everything in series. >> >> About 30 years ago, I did that with two very old rotary phones >> and a 9V battery between the bedrooms of my two daughters. They >> decided knuckles knocking on the wall between the rooms would be >> their signal to pick up the phone. When either phone set (or >> both) hung up, battery current was close enough to zero that the >> battery would last a very long time. > > Hmmm ... can you render a simplified schematic ? > > Sounds like a basic "intercom" system, but might > have wider uses. A mere PI or Arduino might expand > the horizon considerably. > > If the Big Providers won't run their copper network > then maybe we mere proles can find uses for what's > still connected ? A simplified schematic? I don't have a picture handy or a convenient way to draw one. However, the circuit is simple enough that the topology is limited by the solution space. I can describe it in a lot fewer than a thousand words: 1. Draw a circle in pencil so you can erase it later. 2. Put the phones and battery at points about 120 degrees apart on the circle. 3. Draw the terminals on or near the circle. There should be two terminals per element. 4. Add three wires, one connecting the closest terminals of each pair of elements. 5. Erase the circle, but leave the rest. At least with old carbon-mike-type phone sets, the circuit will operate independent of polarity, as long as the three elements form a ring (no pun intended). -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <TJycnTMRSJib9Yv3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87167 |
On 5/26/26 19:17, John Ames wrote: > On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) > Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: > >> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that >> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability >> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are >> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or >> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. > > Well *that* explains a lot :/ Yep. Indeed I think there are SERVICE regs where they HAVE to fix yer broken copper within some rather narrow time window. The providers do NOT like that. Probably a Cold War reg, post-nuke response to get everyone connected again. Oh well, there's always StarLink ... the main phone people didn't expect there to be an alt outside their tight grip. Phones run from about $250 USD on up - Amazon sells a fair selection. Also something kinda like a StarLink "pager" that'll do texts and get e-mails. What IS getting generally annoying is that the bulk of my monthly expense were mostly "utilities" - power and water, basic landline, plus pTax. NOW it's becoming where 'communications' expenses are exceeding even that. There really does seem to be some Vast Vampire Konspiracy at work here. And industry lobbyists will make SURE nothing's done about it. pTax ... also now ridiculous ... orgs stuffed to overflowing with 'administrative' types, fewer and fewer in-the-field DO-ers. Takes a year+ to re-pave a few miles of old road - and 'govt' doesn't even DO it, contracts-out. Waiting for the $25 "sub-space" quantum comm link you can plug into anything :-) Maybe it'll use a Pi-0 under the hood ?
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10v6qdl$2ot19$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87174 |
On 27/05/2026 04:41, c186282 wrote: > What IS getting generally annoying is that the bulk > of my monthly expense were mostly "utilities" - power > and water, basic landline, plus pTax. NOW it's becoming > where 'communications' expenses are exceeding even that. > There really does seem to be some Vast Vampire Konspiracy > at work here. It is the basis of the Democratic Dilemma. How to have enough people who can afford to buy your shit products without actually employing them and giving them the money in the first place. Or letting them have the freedom to employ themselves. -- "When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics." Josef Stalin
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ec6dnYGgEcuDaYr3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87194 |
On 5/27/26 09:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 27/05/2026 04:41, c186282 wrote: >> What IS getting generally annoying is that the bulk >> of my monthly expense were mostly "utilities" - power >> and water, basic landline, plus pTax. NOW it's becoming >> where 'communications' expenses are exceeding even that. >> There really does seem to be some Vast Vampire Konspiracy >> at work here. > > It is the basis of the Democratic Dilemma. How to have enough people who > can afford to buy your shit products without actually employing them and > giving them the money in the first place. Or letting them have the > freedom to employ themselves. At some point, probably soon, that idea is going to collapse. It'll be a big shake-up. There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long forgotten, but still bleeding money from their accounts. Frankly, I won't WANT to give any corp access to such broad-sweep info on me. Vlad or Xi will be plugged-in. Don't HAVE many 'subscriptions' at all, and LOOK for the charges every month. But most DON'T look anymore ... then wonder why they're going broke. When 'AI' grabs their jobs ... well ...... interesting times ..........
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n7rb4iFo1qlU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87219 |
On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote: > There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your > service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long > forgotten, > but still bleeding money from their accounts. Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years. Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <97OcnXMzhIQIa4X3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87237 |
On 5/28/26 13:08, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 28 May 2026 03:51:01 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> There's a TV commercial for a firm that can track down all your >> service subscriptions. People often have a LOT of them, long >> forgotten, >> but still bleeding money from their accounts. > > Some month I'll summon up all my patience and try to cancel my AT&T long > distance service. I haven't made a land line long distance call in years. > Or they may cancel it for me. it's been on ACH for years but the last > three months the payment doesn't seem to have gone through. I have that, AND a long-dead basic DSL account. But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ... BTW, the old DSL had superior performance to my New And Improved 5G router ...... but one day, unannounced, they just killed the DSL. Rebooted the router and it was all just GONE. "Sorry, we have discontinued ..." They DID send a letter saying they were not going to ADD any more hard-lines anymore, but still SURE they are just looking for The Excuse to dump 'em all. An alt comm route, alt media/tech, still seems VERY much a 'redundancy'/survival issue. Can't move my old number to wireless anything - wireless uses different xxx-0123 numbers always now. Banks, brokers, insurers, docs, govt, LOTS of people, still call the old number. Good old ANSWER MACHINE to sort out the assholes. And my cell MIGHT crap out ... NOT good for 2FA accounts.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n7sjnrFu3pfU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87252 |
On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote: > But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my > landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ... There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it isn't a huge deal.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <97OcnW0zhIRttIT3nZ2dnZfqnPQAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87256 |
On 5/29/26 00:41, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:14:29 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> But, I'm not gonna tamper. That would be THE excuse to snip my >> landline. Can tell, they're just LOOKING for an excuse ... > > There's that too. CenturyLink is the landline provider and I can see them > saying I need a long distance provider. AT&T is less than $15/mo so it > isn't a huge deal. My AT&T is *very* expensive now ... they ARE trying to scare everybody away from their copper lines. For OUR good ? NO ! Well, I can afford it ... I'm gonna put up with their extortion. MAY be some lawyers who'll get some of that back later on.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n7sq8kFu3pfU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87261 |
On Fri, 29 May 2026 01:53:35 -0400, c186282 wrote: > My AT&T is *very* expensive now ... they ARE trying to scare > everybody away from their copper lines. CenturyLink doesn't seem to be trying to scare people away but the cost has risen with more taxes and so forth. Usually I have 4G on the T-Mobile net but sometimes I need to move the phone around. So far the copper connection works when I pick it up.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <TJycnTERSJjsxIv3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87165 |
On 5/26/26 18:09, Rich wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 5/26/26 02:46, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> So, it is fibre now. If fibre is not feasible to your location (like >>> isolated places), they they put you on some radio for the same price. >> >> Fiber is STILL a direct-connect tech ... and >> the providers are AGAINST that. Requires HUMAN >> workers. >> >> They want 100% wireless - no matter how shitty. > > In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that > POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability > requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are > free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or > being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. That IS a factor. > They don't mind at all sending a tech. out to drag in fiber, given that > each one moves them from "regulated service" to "unregulated service". Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll have fired all the humans who knew how to deal with it. "Comcast" will probably have cable/Fiber for awhile yet, but their price has become extreme. Can't even get that anymore, tiny bushes became huge trees over time and it'd cost me thousands to clear a path for a cable-tv wire now. When my old one - literally on the ground since Covid days - goes, well, dish.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10v6qg9$2ot19$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87170 |
On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: > Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll > have fired all the humans who knew how to deal > with it. Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper -- How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think. Adolf Hitler
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <6a17789e@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #87195 |
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal >> with it. > > Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper Still here in Australia one person I know with "fibre to the premises" (as opposed to re-using the old copper phone lines for connection from the street to the house) had to have the line fixed within about a year of installation due to a faulty connection that evidently "degraded" somehow over time. Likely a faulty installation, the box they attached to the house wasn't even screwed on very convincingly, but there'll be a lot of that in this contry and probably elsewhere. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10v8qa7$39l9v$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87207 |
On 28/05/2026 00:05, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >>> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal >>> with it. >> >> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper > > Still here in Australia one person I know with "fibre to the > premises" (as opposed to re-using the old copper phone lines for > connection from the street to the house) had to have the line fixed > within about a year of installation due to a faulty connection that > evidently "degraded" somehow over time. > > Likely a faulty installation, the box they attached to the house > wasn't even screwed on very convincingly, but there'll be a lot of > that in this contry and probably elsewhere. > Nothing in that shows that the fibre degraded. Only a connection -- Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is that they are dead. Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ec6dnYCgEcvmaYr3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87195 |
On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal >> with it. > > Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires splitters/repeaters. THOSE will degrade. HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff. Humans are a pain in the ass and expensive.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10v8tsh$3ajmv$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87220 |
On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote: > On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >>> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal >>> with it. >> >> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper > > The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires > splitters/repeaters. THOSE will degrade. > HUMANS will be required to replace that > stuff. Humans are a pain in the ass and > expensive. > Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix cables And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition possible And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science -- Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend. "Saki"
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <UYicndWFJtyzQoX3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87225 |
On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote: >> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >>>> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal >>>> with it. >>> >>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper >> >> The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires >> splitters/repeaters. THOSE will degrade. >> HUMANS will be required to replace that >> stuff. Humans are a pain in the ass and >> expensive. >> > Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix cables > And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition possible > And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there.
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| From | InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10vaorr$3r8c4$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87244 |
On 5/28/2026 8:34 PM, c186282 wrote: > On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote: >>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >>>>> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal >>>>> with it. >>>> >>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper >>> >>> The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires >>> splitters/repeaters. THOSE will degrade. >>> HUMANS will be required to replace that >>> stuff. Humans are a pain in the ass and >>> expensive. >>> >> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix >> cables >> And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition possible >> And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science > > > Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there. It isn't just the fiber itself, but the other active equipment involved. I live in a Verizon metro area, so unfortunately it's fiber and not copper. I still pay for standalone regulated "POTS over fiber" (not the more common unregulated FiOS Digital Voice offering). It works ~mostly the same, i.e. you can make dial-around calls using Feature Group D Equal Access and I have a TDM-based long-distance service, even though my ONT connects via SIP to a new packet switch. In just the past couple years, there have been several impairments to my service that would not have happened with copper. On one occasion, I came home and had no dial tone, and called Verizon up using VoIP through my cable ISP. I made a stink, since the "POTS" line (albeit fiber) is my only way to reach 911 in an emergency. They gave me a service credit, but could not explain why it randomly stopped working and needed a reboot. When is the last time a 5ESS or DMS100 just "stopped providing dial tone" randomly and needed a reboot? Probably never. On another occasion, I called about another unrelated issue and the idiot offshore tech decided to reboot my ONT *without my consent*, and unnecessarily given I wasn't calling about a line-related issue at all. Well, I let *him* have it and also demanded and got another service credit. But another loss of service (however temporary) that would be impossible on copper. Yes, copper is not perfect, but in actual reality, copper works much more of the time than fiber. There are fewer things that can go wrong. And even though I have a backup battery unit for my service, it's only good for 8 hours. What happens then? I would take a line with a little hum or static over no line at all, especially when most needed. This has all come to a head recently in California - the California regulator has so far protected consumers and stood up to AT&T, unlike other states, and now AT&T has sued California for this and asked the FCC to preempt California's protections - see https://savelandlines.org/ for the high-level details. While I live in an urban area and probably will be fine in a power outage unless I hurt myself, many Californias will be left for dead if they lose their copper POTS line, as it's often the only reliable way to call for help in many areas, esp. with prolonged power outages being common. But the FCC has long ago decided that helping industry increase its already massive profits is now more important than its actual job, protecting the people from industry. P.S. I empathize with the OP here... while I still have cable Internet for the time being (not interested in Verizon's stupid and unnecessary fiber that I never asked for or wanted), I've been questioning why I even have that. Between JavaScript that doesn't work in my browsers, user agent blocking, and just plain bloated and unusable sites, hardly anything on the WWW even works anymore (or is even worth accessing if it still does). Email and Usenet work fine on slow connections and asynchronously. I found a new dial-up ISP[1] in the last month that has good customer service and is still reselling dial-up, and I'm planning to cancel my cable and switch to dial-up. Will save a few bucks and cut some BS out of my life. (And yes, it works just fine on my "POTS over fiber", though for some reason I can only negotiate 33.6k. It's rock solid and will stay up with no drops, though my fellow copper dial-up users tell me they can get speeds in the 40s and 50s, so something about the fiber arrangement seems to be interfering with V.90/V.92 negotiation.) [1] https://www.va.net/dialup
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n7s80tFo1qlU7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87244 |
On Thu, 28 May 2026 20:34:37 -0400, c186282 wrote: > On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote: >>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >>>>> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal with it. >>>> >>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper >>> >>> The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires splitters/repeaters. >>> THOSE will degrade. >>> HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff. Humans are a pain >>> in the ass and expensive. >>> >> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix >> cables And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition >> possible And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science > > > Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there. We're in the middle of a thunderstorm which reminds me of a telco tech crouched under his little tent trying to hook a a multitude of wires while his little workspace fill with water...
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <UYicnc-FJtzBsIT3nZ2dnZfqnPQAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87248 |
On 5/28/26 21:21, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 28 May 2026 20:34:37 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote: >>>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >>>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >>>>>> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal with it. >>>>> >>>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper >>>> >>>> The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires splitters/repeaters. >>>> THOSE will degrade. >>>> HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff. Humans are a pain >>>> in the ass and expensive. >>>> >>> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix >>> cables And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition >>> possible And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science >> >> >> Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there. > > We're in the middle of a thunderstorm which reminds me of a telco tech > crouched under his little tent trying to hook a a multitude of wires while > his little workspace fill with water... Sounds "courageous", "dedicated" - a hero figure. Long years back I kinda of WAS that person.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n7sqolFu3pfU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87264 |
On Fri, 29 May 2026 02:08:11 -0400, c186282 wrote: > On 5/28/26 21:21, rbowman wrote: >> On Thu, 28 May 2026 20:34:37 -0400, c186282 wrote: >> >>> On 5/28/26 04:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>> On 28/05/2026 08:52, c186282 wrote: >>>>> On 5/27/26 09:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>> On 27/05/2026 03:39, c186282 wrote: >>>>>>> Soon the fiber/repeaters will degrade and they'll >>>>>>> have fired all the humans who knew how to deal with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hardly. Fibre does not degrade. Not like copper >>>>> >>>>> The fiber doesn't ... but fiber requires splitters/repeaters. >>>>> THOSE will degrade. >>>>> HUMANS will be required to replace that stuff. Humans are a >>>>> pain in the ass and expensive. >>>>> >>>> Again,. no, not really. You don send humans under the oceans to fix >>>> cables And fibre junctions are where human access is by definition >>>> possible And fixing fibre connections is not rocket science >>> >>> >>> Fixing copper is even easier - and it's already there. >> >> We're in the middle of a thunderstorm which reminds me of a telco tech >> crouched under his little tent trying to hook a a multitude of wires >> while his little workspace fill with water... > > > Sounds "courageous", "dedicated" - a hero figure. No, just a guy doing a job. Sometimes the job sucks but you do it anyway. Linemen are the same way. When the poles blow over it isn't a nice sunny day but they're out there fixing them. You haven't lived until you've driven a semi through a North Dakota blizzard but you keep on trucking. I'm not sure how much of that attitude is left in Gen Z.
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