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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #86023 > unrolled thread

Wayland Makes Progress

Started byLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2026-04-30 07:50 +0000
Last post2026-05-05 01:09 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 487 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 07:50 +0000
    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-30 12:29 +0000
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-30 17:29 +0100
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 09:53 -0700
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-04-30 18:02 +0100
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 10:15 -0700
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 22:26 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:56 -0700
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:41 +0000
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 15:54 -0700
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:07 +0000
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 08:32 -0700
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:40 +0000
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 15:20 -0700
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:52 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 08:12 -0700
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-05 15:57 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 09:10 -0700
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-05 18:14 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:41 +0100
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-05 21:52 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 15:26 -0700
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-06 04:11 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-06 08:43 -0700
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-06 16:30 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-06 21:13 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-06 22:06 -0400
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-07 03:49 +0000
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-07 16:37 -0400
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 13:06 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-07 18:35 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:30 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 12:54 +0000
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-08 19:07 +0000
                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-08 21:58 -0400
                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 03:31 +0000
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-09 00:48 -0400
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 07:44 +0000
                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:46 +0200
                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:42 +0000
                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 22:02 +0200
                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:38 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 19:31 +0200
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 13:55 +0200
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:04 +0000
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 07:01 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:54 +0200
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:30 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:46 +0200
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:33 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 01:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:42 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-25 12:57 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 08:28 -0700
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 17:43 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-26 23:02 +0200
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 07:49 +0200
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:34 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:03 +0200
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-27 12:20 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-27 22:53 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 02:54 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 00:04 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 23:55 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:06 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:19 +0000
                                                                                          TV scripts and their computation by machine (was: Re: Wayland Makes Progress) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 09:29 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-28 15:45 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 09:11 +0100
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:05 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:29 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-27 18:28 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 21:36 +0100
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-27 18:44 +0000
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 23:53 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 07:37 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:07 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:37 +0200
                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:39 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 20:09 +0200
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 03:19 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 01:03 -0400
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 06:05 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:35 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:38 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:21 +0200
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:10 -0700
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 19:42 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 01:58 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:18 +0200
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 15:43 +0000
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:27 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:17 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:08 +0200
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 10:34 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:22 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:13 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:11 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:20 +0200
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:45 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 19:48 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 01:43 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:26 +0200
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:15 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-12 02:57 +0000
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:42 +0200
                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:35 +0000
                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 22:04 +0200
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:47 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:15 +0100
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:26 +0000
                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:04 +0100
                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 12:33 +0000
                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:12 +0000
                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:12 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 14:45 +0100
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:05 +0000
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:37 +0100
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:35 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 23:42 -0400
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:31 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:27 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:41 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 20:46 -0400
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:55 +0000
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 21:44 -0700
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:09 +0000
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 19:47 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:25 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:38 +0000
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:34 +0100
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:10 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 21:34 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:26 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:43 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 11:54 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:38 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:33 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 23:28 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 04:36 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-15 04:58 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 08:01 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:20 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 11:21 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-15 02:37 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:17 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-17 05:25 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 17:08 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:27 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:36 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:18 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:22 +0100
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 20:41 +0100
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:21 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:04 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:24 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:10 +0100
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 08:54 -0700
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:29 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:16 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:36 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 09:51 -0700
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:52 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-12 19:55 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:45 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:46 -0700
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:09 +0100
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:55 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 23:46 -0400
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:25 +0100
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:07 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 20:58 -0700
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:27 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:24 +0100
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 21:05 -0400
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:19 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:04 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:39 +0200
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 10:44 -0700
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 21:50 -0700
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:10 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:22 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:49 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:59 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:34 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:23 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:14 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:23 +0100
                                                                          Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:34 +0200
                                                                            Re: Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 20:17 +0000
                                                                              Re: Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 22:28 +0200
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:17 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 00:02 -0400
                                                                            Pre-history (was Re: Wayland Makes Progress) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-18 15:56 -0700
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:21 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 14:43 +0100
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:55 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 14:19 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 16:51 +0000
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 23:08 +0200
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:35 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 23:39 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 14:04 +0200
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-16 12:45 +0000
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 20:46 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 15:49 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-13 09:10 -0700
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-29 07:33 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 22:54 +0000
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:31 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:39 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:55 +0100
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:18 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:51 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 15:50 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-28 07:17 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:23 +0100
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:38 +0100
                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:04 +0100
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:29 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-09 10:18 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:49 +0000
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:00 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 20:46 +0000
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:06 +0100
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:08 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:33 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:45 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-08 15:23 -0700
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 03:42 +0100
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-06 01:35 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:49 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-06 19:05 +0000
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:59 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 16:55 +0100
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:32 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 12:56 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-08 18:05 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-08 13:01 -0700
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:41 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 14:03 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:46 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:56 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 18:04 +0100
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:51 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 18:40 +0100
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-10 16:50 +0100
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:46 +0100
                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 19:58 +0000
                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-15 21:23 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 21:08 +0000
                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-17 08:01 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 03:35 -0400
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 10:31 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-17 11:11 +0000
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-17 14:52 +0200
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-17 16:35 +0000
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 21:00 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-22 06:51 +0000
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-22 11:04 +0200
                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-22 22:38 -0400
                                                          Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 09:19 +0200
                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 09:22 +0100
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 14:04 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:04 +0100
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:43 +0200
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:27 +0100
                                                                      Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:49 +0200
                                                                      Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 12:09 +0200
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-23 13:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 15:22 +0100
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:26 +0000
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:00 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 17:01 +0100
                                                                Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-23 16:28 +0000
                                                                  Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 17:43 +0100
                                                                  Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 01:06 -0400
                                                                    Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-24 05:36 +0000
                                                                      Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 02:45 -0400
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:44 +0200
                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:57 +0200
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-23 16:53 +0000
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 12:20 +0100
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:46 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:08 +0200
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:32 +0200
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:50 +0200
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 21:57 -0400
                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-24 08:54 +1000
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:33 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 11:26 +0100
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-24 17:04 +0000
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 20:00 +0200
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 22:23 +0200
                                                                      Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-25 08:09 +1000
                                                                        Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 07:34 +0200
                                                                          Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:18 +0000
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:29 +0200
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 21:54 +0000
                                                                          Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 07:25 +0100
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:45 +0000
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-25 08:38 +0100
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 10:50 +0100
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:35 +0200
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 10:54 +0100
                                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 13:41 +0200
                                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-26 09:14 +1000
                                                                          Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2026-05-25 18:01 +1000
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:54 +0200
                                                                        Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:48 +0200
                                                                          Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 11:04 +0100
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 13:44 +0200
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-26 00:46 +0000
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-27 12:38 +0100
                                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-27 22:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:35 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:54 +0000
                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 06:58 +0000
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:36 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 04:13 +0000
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (was: title without w in "was:"?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 11:29 +0100
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-24 17:04 +0000
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:47 +0000
                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:47 +0200
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:28 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-02 10:25 +0100
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 09:43 -0700
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-01 15:32 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-01 22:21 +0200
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-01 20:36 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:37 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:40 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-02 09:07 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 12:32 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 12:29 +0200
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-02 20:22 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-02 23:27 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:39 +0100
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-03 09:20 +0200
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-30 14:39 -0400
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-01 15:29 +0000
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-01 09:30 +0000
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-01 13:36 +0200
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:36 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:43 +0200
              VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-02 10:53 +0000
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 13:14 +0200
                  Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 13:29 +0000
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 13:39 +0200
                  Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-02 11:52 +0000
                    Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 13:32 +0000
                      Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-02 15:09 +0100
                        Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 18:29 +0000
                      Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 19:15 +0200
                    Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 20:25 +0200
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-03 12:34 +0000
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-03 13:50 +0100
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-03 22:03 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-04 12:51 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-04 19:35 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:56 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 16:53 +0100
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-07 17:39 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 20:10 +0100
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 13:04 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-08 14:27 +0100
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-08 19:05 +0000
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 14:01 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:15 +0100
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:24 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:44 -0700
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:08 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:30 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:04 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:53 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-08 15:13 -0700
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:55 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:52 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 13:10 +0000
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-10 18:46 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:38 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:46 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:57 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:07 +0200
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-15 09:10 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:04 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:49 -0400
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:38 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:34 +0000
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:30 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:30 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:56 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-11 22:38 +0200
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:25 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-12 08:02 +0200
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 02:24 -0400
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:53 +0200
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:09 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:06 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:54 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:39 +0200
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:58 +0100
                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:03 +0000
                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 22:54 +0200
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 15:56 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:13 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:51 +0200
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:20 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 20:24 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:30 -0400
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:44 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:15 +0100
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:16 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 23:01 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:11 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 19:58 -0700
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:53 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:56 +0200
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:44 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:40 +0100
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:49 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:06 -0700
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:34 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:47 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:40 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:03 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:33 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 13:01 +0000
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:21 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:52 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-08 09:23 +1000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-09 10:02 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:58 +0100
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:14 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 20:46 +0000
                        Dump Truck (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-09 21:30 +0000
                          Re: Dump Truck (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:58 +0100
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:38 -0700
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:12 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 16:22 -0700
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:33 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:02 +0100
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:11 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:52 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:22 -0700
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:51 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 21:14 -0700
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:14 -0400
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:58 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 00:36 -0400
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:03 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 12:40 -0400
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:27 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 17:02 -0700
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:00 +0100
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:57 +0100
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:54 +0100
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:12 +0100
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:55 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:32 -0700
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:46 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 21:50 -0400
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:12 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:23 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:16 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 21:23 -0700
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:23 -0400
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:29 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:41 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:16 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:35 -0700
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:52 +0000
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:08 +0100
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:33 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:15 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:57 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:50 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-05 01:09 +0000

Page 22 of 25 — ← Prev page 1 … 20 21 [22] 23 24 25  Next page →


#86417

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-05-11 23:01 +0000
Message-ID<10ttn4e$1g1he$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86373
On Mon, 11 May 2026 13:30:58 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> On 2026-05-10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> For example, GIMP has the scripting developer console function
>> built-in, not as some extra-cost addon. So you can open this and
>> directly experiment with image-manipulation commands interactively,
>> in either Python or Guile.
>>
>> Imagine wanting to do something like this in Photoshop -- not a
>> chance. Not now or ever. Because providing such a function would
>> impinge on the market for extra-cost addons.
>
> Yes, but GIMP is well over 25 years old, right?

Are you trying to say GIMP somehow had a head start on offering those
features over Photoshop? That argument doesn’t work.

> GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict
> users more and more.

Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.

On Linux, you have plenty of GUI choices, and plenty of configuration
and theming choices within most of those GUIs, so there is really no
reason to complain. But for those who still want to complain, you can
choose to be stuck without a choice, and that no-choice choice is
GNOME.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86424

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-12 02:11 +0000
Message-ID<n6fgi6FltgdU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#86417
On Mon, 11 May 2026 23:01:34 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and macOS
> feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new version
> of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
> behaviours,
> on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.

I'm not a refugee but GNOME never made me feel at home. Luckily I skipped 
Vista and 8 and went directly to 10 from 7. We did have a Windows Server 
version that had the smartphone dash that I avoided.

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#86433

FromBobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com>
Date2026-05-11 19:58 -0700
Message-ID<10tu50o$1kh19$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86424

On 5/11/26 19:11, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 11 May 2026 23:01:34 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> 
>> Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and macOS
>> feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new version
>> of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
>> behaviours,
>> on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
> 
> I'm not a refugee but GNOME never made me feel at home. Luckily I skipped
> Vista and 8 and went directly to 10 from 7. We did have a Windows Server
> version that had the smartphone dash that I avoided.

	And KDE certainly can be configured to make Windows users feel
more at home.  As a matter of fact it used be able and likely still is
configurable to look like nearly any other desktop environment in use.

	

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#86516

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-12 16:53 +0000
Message-ID<n6h492FtsviU13@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#86433
On Mon, 11 May 2026 19:58:32 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> 	And KDE certainly can be configured to make Windows users feel
> more at home.  As a matter of fact it used be able and likely still is
> configurable to look like nearly any other desktop environment in use.

I use it as it comes out of the box. Start menu and a taskbar and I'm 
happy. I do wish they hadn't dropped KNode though.

https://userbase.kde.org/KNode

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#86466

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-05-12 12:56 +0200
Message-ID<vjdbdmxrvp.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#86417
On 2026-05-12 01:01, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict
>> users more and more.
> Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
> macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
> version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
> behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.

Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to 2, 
or 2 to 3.

Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#86469

FromBorax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
Date2026-05-12 12:44 +0000
Message-ID<slrn110684j.8ji.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
In reply to#86466
On 2026-05-12, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-05-12 01:01, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict
>>> users more and more.
>> Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
>> macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
>> version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
>> behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
>
> Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to 2, 
> or 2 to 3.
>
> Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.
>

I did quite like GNOME 1, I used it a lot.  GNOME 2 was a step back, and
GNOME 3 was something utterly different.  A brutal change indeed.

Obviously the users are happy with it, because they are those that
didn't leave.  Many did.

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#86485

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-05-12 14:40 +0100
Message-ID<10tvakh$1vdgu$17@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86466
On 12/05/2026 11:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2026-05-12 01:01, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict
>>> users more and more.
>> Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
>> macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
>> version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
>> behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
> 
> Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to 2, 
> or 2 to 3.
> 
> Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.
> 
I think I tied to install Ubuntu one time. Horrible appearance. And 
didn't work in some way. Graphics?

Installed Mint. Looked OK.,Worked. Good enuff 4 me.


-- 
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to 
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

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#86513

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-12 16:49 +0000
Message-ID<n6h40eFtsviU12@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#86485
On Tue, 12 May 2026 14:40:33 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I think I tied to install Ubuntu one time. Horrible appearance. And
> didn't work in some way. Graphics?

Ubuntu wasn't my first choice for the mini but I had problems with the 
other isos I had on hand. At least it has a taskbar where I can pin the 
stuff I use. It works okay.

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#86490

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-12 08:06 -0700
Message-ID<20260512080653.00007518@gmail.com>
In reply to#86466
On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:56:31 +0200
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to
> 2, or 2 to 3.
> 
> Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.

2 -> 3. GNOME Team (like MS) swallowed the tech-press "death of the PC"
narrative hook, line, and sinker and went all-in on trying to mutate
their desktop GUI into a hybrid tablet interface, ending up with a Fiji
mermaid that made nobody happy - and when people complained they (like
MS) responded by stridently lecturing the public about how Actually You
Just Don't Get It and making only the most token concessions they could
get by with. *Unlike* over in Windows territory, the community had the
choice to tell them where to shove it, and MATE was forked from GNOME 2
in the space of about 14 ns, to the surprise of absolutely nobody but
GNOME Team.

You'd almost think there was a lesson in there somewhere, but if
Wayland is any indication people seem determined not to learn it.

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#86563

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-05-13 10:34 +0100
Message-ID<10u1gio$2jago$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86490
On 12/05/2026 16:06, John Ames wrote:
> On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:56:31 +0200
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to
>> 2, or 2 to 3.
>>
>> Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.
> 
> 2 -> 3. GNOME Team (like MS) swallowed the tech-press "death of the PC"
> narrative hook, line, and sinker and went all-in on trying to mutate
> their desktop GUI into a hybrid tablet interface, ending up with a Fiji
> mermaid that made nobody happy - and when people complained they (like
> MS) responded by stridently lecturing the public about how Actually You
> Just Don't Get It and making only the most token concessions they could
> get by with. *Unlike* over in Windows territory, the community had the
> choice to tell them where to shove it, and MATE was forked from GNOME 2
> in the space of about 14 ns, to the surprise of absolutely nobody but
> GNOME Team.
> 
> You'd almost think there was a lesson in there somewhere, but if
> Wayland is any indication people seem determined not to learn it.
> 
I dont think the two situations are comparable. or with systemd either.

Each is unique.

Gnome 3 was more than a few style tweaks - it tried to rewrite how 
people were to use their computers. And fortunately it was not the only 
game in town.

Wayland doesn't seek to change anything at the user level in a very 
Occam like way. (Visible) changes are limited to the necessary, or at 
least that is where it can be and should be implemented. And its been 
largely successful in that.

Systemd was supposed to replace all system daemons'  startup and 
control, including logging. with a uniform and allegedly faster booting 
process. And a more secure logging environment.

Unfortunately this affected every single service and especially logging, 
and while it did not affect the user experience, it massively 
compromised existing system administration and debugging ability.

And the fast moving shift from initd type management to systemd has 
rendered huge swathes of existing documentation obsolete, further 
increasing the workload.

We encountered similar turds on the path from BSD SUNOS to System V 
Unix, in that commands that were essential no longer existed. In 
particular the print subsystem remained a total steaming pile  until 
CUPS was developed.

All these changes are very disruptive, and the most resented are those 
that are perceived to actually be retrograde steps, or simply 
unnecessary: Certainly systemd's supposed advantages seem more relevant 
to larger servers running in exposed public positions than the average 
users desktop.

People  seem to forget the extent of the variability of   technical 
competence, interests and skill sets of on the one hand, users (and 
corporations) seeking a refuge from the very corporate totalitarianism 
that windows and MACOS desktops represent, through tinkerers, coders 
and enthusiasts, to maintainers of [huge, cloud] servers and the like.

No single solution ought to be able to meet these varying needs and it 
is a huge tribute to the FOSS and corporate communities that Linux does 
indeed meet those requirements with only a few variations that can 
generally be catered for at the distro level to adapt it.

I think we should have a little more tolerance: Systemd and its teutonic 
creators display all the monotonic and dictatorial mindset of the 
Teutonic mind, in its drive to create 'one service to rule them all' and 
the accompanying narcissism that has left the job of actually making 
this work to a generation of coders who will find gainful employ sorting 
out the shit the Poetterring could not be arsed to do.

At least Wayland's creators are still working on it.
And as for Gnome3. Well its there if you want to create a linux tablet. 
However the tablet market is all about pre-installed non configurable 
shit and there IOS and Android already have that market cornered. No one 
wants Linux there at all

Linux future is in

Desktop/laptop corporate and personal workstations that still mostly 
need a keyboard/mouse/gui to operate.
Code development platforms
Gaming systems
NAS installations
Embedded installations
Public facing servers,
Supercomputers.

Gnome3 doesn't suit any of those and so few people use it.

-- 
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before 
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

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#86512

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-12 16:47 +0000
Message-ID<n6h3s4FtsviU11@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#86466
On Tue, 12 May 2026 12:56:31 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2026-05-12 01:01, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict users
>>> more and more.
>> Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
>> macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
>> version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
>> behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
> 
> Gnome made a brutal change, I don't remember if it was version 1 to 2,
> or 2 to 3.
> 
> Many people abandoned gnome and switched to xfce.

3 is the one that pissed people off. Quite a few alternate DEs are based 
on GNOME 2.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86468

FromBorax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
Date2026-05-12 12:40 +0000
Message-ID<slrn11067ua.8ji.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
In reply to#86417
On 2026-05-11, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 May 2026 13:30:58 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>
>> On 2026-05-10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> For example, GIMP has the scripting developer console function
>>> built-in, not as some extra-cost addon. So you can open this and
>>> directly experiment with image-manipulation commands interactively,
>>> in either Python or Guile.
>>>
>>> Imagine wanting to do something like this in Photoshop -- not a
>>> chance. Not now or ever. Because providing such a function would
>>> impinge on the market for extra-cost addons.
>>
>> Yes, but GIMP is well over 25 years old, right?
>
> Are you trying to say GIMP somehow had a head start on offering those
> features over Photoshop? That argument doesn’t work.
>

I've barely used Photoshop, so I'm not making a comparison.  I remember
using GIMP scripts back in the early 2000s, when extensibility seemed
the rage.

>> GNOME to me is a good example of a system which seem to restrict
>> users more and more.
>
> Think of GNOME as being designed to make refugees from Windows and
> macOS feel at home. Back there they would complain about how every new
> version of the systems would make unwanted changes, and break familiar
> behaviours, on a basically take-it-or-leave-it basis.
>
> On Linux, you have plenty of GUI choices, and plenty of configuration
> and theming choices within most of those GUIs, so there is really no
> reason to complain. But for those who still want to complain, you can
> choose to be stuck without a choice, and that no-choice choice is
> GNOME.

Yes, I get that.  Though I think there IS reason to complain, because
the mainstream affects the fringes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86294

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-05-09 17:03 +0000
Message-ID<n697n1Fmk36U6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#86280
On Sat, 9 May 2026 13:55:57 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> Spot on.  You can't presume to know what end users want, or how they wil
> use things.  People will find their own idiosyncratic ways to solve
> problems, to use technology.  They'll invent workflows and use cases and
> programs you never thought of.  And this is GOOD.

+1 on that. I fixed an ancient bug that could put a resource unit into a 
indeterminate state. The users had found and exploited the bug to allow 
them to assign the same unit to two calls at once. They were pissed when 
they could no longer do what they never should have been able to do.

If the bug manifested depended on which call was archived first. 
Apparently they had gotten lucky with their workflow. 

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#86325

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-05-10 00:33 +0000
Message-ID<10tojp2$1bvo$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86280
On Sat, 9 May 2026 13:55:57 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> Users have to be free to use, abuse and do wierd things, that is how
> innovation occurs.

That requires active users who are suitably self-sufficient, able to
understand the software they’re using, tweak it, patch it etc. And
maybe contribute their patches for others to share.

In other words, not the kind of users you get too often on these
online forums, who complain about conspiracies and about developers
making changes that *they* don’t particularly care for, and often
express outright rabid hate for certain software projects (like
Wayland and systemd). But cannot really offer any suitable
alternative.

In short, innovation comes from the doers, not from the armchair
critics.

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#86332

FromBorax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
Date2026-05-10 13:01 +0000
Message-ID<slrn11010dm.2h9.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
In reply to#86325
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 May 2026 13:55:57 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>
>> Users have to be free to use, abuse and do wierd things, that is how
>> innovation occurs.
>
> That requires active users who are suitably self-sufficient, able to
> understand the software they’re using, tweak it, patch it etc. And
> maybe contribute their patches for others to share.
>
> In other words, not the kind of users you get too often on these
> online forums, who complain about conspiracies and about developers
> making changes that *they* don’t particularly care for, and often
> express outright rabid hate for certain software projects (like
> Wayland and systemd). But cannot really offer any suitable
> alternative.
>
> In short, innovation comes from the doers, not from the armchair
> critics.

Sometimes it comes from people you don't hear about at all.  But beyond
patching software, it can also include creating solutions to problems
using existing software.  I've seen people do cool things just with MS
Access, or VB, or Excel, really stretching what can be done to solve a
business problem.  Or bespoke programs written just to solve a problem
at that one company.  I've written a few of those, programs that were
used for years in production by many operators.  

One good example is the "pass" program, the "Standard Unix Password
Manager".  It is in actuality just a set of scripts that uses GPG to
create a password storage system, but it works wells, and because it
uses the standard tools, you can create other workflows that intergrate
with it.  Intergrate it with Emacs, or like I've done, with the Window
Manager itself.  

However the software itself does matter.  If the software is designed to
be its own self-contained universe, to be used only the way the designed
intended, then it limits potential.  Windows is terrible in this regard

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#86352

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-05-10 23:21 +0000
Message-ID<10tr3tb$n8tt$11@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86332
On Sun, 10 May 2026 13:01:43 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> I've seen people do cool things just with MS Access, or VB, or
> Excel, really stretching what can be done to solve a business
> problem.
>
> However the software itself does matter. If the software is designed
> to be its own self-contained universe, to be used only the way the
> designed intended, then it limits potential. Windows is terrible in
> this regard

And now you get into whether the software base on which the user is
building their ingenious solutions is facilitating that ingenuity, or
hindering it.

As you said, Windows is terrible, as indeed is most proprietary
software (I would include the Microsoft products you mentioned above).
As you try pushing its boundaries, sooner or later you hit limits
which are there not because of lack of imagination on the part of the
developers, but because it would be counter to their business model to
give you more functionality in that direction without making you pay
more money.

Open-source software, pretty much by definition, cannot suffer from
this problem. If a piece of said software had such a problem, somebody
would see it as a bug and publish a fix.

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#86376

FromBorax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
Date2026-05-11 13:52 +0000
Message-ID<slrn1103noe.600.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
In reply to#86352
On 2026-05-10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 May 2026 13:01:43 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>
>> I've seen people do cool things just with MS Access, or VB, or
>> Excel, really stretching what can be done to solve a business
>> problem.
>>
>> However the software itself does matter. If the software is designed
>> to be its own self-contained universe, to be used only the way the
>> designed intended, then it limits potential. Windows is terrible in
>> this regard
>
> And now you get into whether the software base on which the user is
> building their ingenious solutions is facilitating that ingenuity, or
> hindering it.
>
> As you said, Windows is terrible, as indeed is most proprietary
> software (I would include the Microsoft products you mentioned above).
> As you try pushing its boundaries, sooner or later you hit limits
> which are there not because of lack of imagination on the part of the
> developers, but because it would be counter to their business model to
> give you more functionality in that direction without making you pay
> more money.
>
> Open-source software, pretty much by definition, cannot suffer from
> this problem. If a piece of said software had such a problem, somebody
> would see it as a bug and publish a fix.

I would say with Microsoft Office, it does offer quite a bit, however
you hit the limits of what you can reasonably do while still maintaining
your software as an Office Suite.  So I've actually been able to, within
Emacs, serially create documents as PDFs frm an MS word template, with
data from Excel, without actually having to open those programs at all.
A powershell script could do it, but its easier for me in Emacs for
reasons I won't explain.

However, this is something that not even the IT department at my company
could figure out, which is why I think MS don't bother. 99% of MS
Office users will not even begin to attempt something like that, and
would be far more likely to just use another MS application, like some
automation (or CoPilot which is what our IT tried) than this approach.

Now, when I had to generate reports for another job, and I did at home,
I used GNUPlot, Groff and a little bit of scripting to create a
repeatable and self-documented workflow.  IT just felt "right", as
opposed to the MS OFfice monstrosity, which while workable, does feel
like using a spanner to drive a nail.

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#86228

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2026-05-08 09:23 +1000
Message-ID<69fd1ef0@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#86208
Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-05-04, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> wrote:
>> There will also be X11Libre:
>>
>><https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver>
>>
>> Already 606 commits since last week!
>>
>> Screw Wayland.  Just make X great again.
> 
> I heard some people took offence at the guy who maintains it, for some
> reason or another.  I appreciate the effort though I'll have to try it
> out but it seems like at some point or another, as toolkits drop X
> support, an X Compatibility layer will be the way forward, not XLibre.

On the other hand most of my favourite programs use toolkits that
won't be adapted to Wayland (GTK1/2, Motif), or are written to use
Xlib directly.

But for the others (Firefox, mainly) I've been expecting someone
will develop such a compatibility layer for running Wayland
programs on X, _long_ before I have any need for it. Sure enough
a while ago I discovered this:

https://git.linuxping.win/12to11/12to11

Unfortuntely it only currently claims to work with recent versions
of Xorg, not X11Libre, or my personal favourite the TinyX forks.
But it's early days, and with nothing I run even using GTK4 yet
(and I avoid Qt entirely already), there'll probably be more
options by the time I need them to keep running X.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#86271

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2026-05-09 10:02 +0000
Message-ID<69ff0649$0$7099$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#86128
Le 04-05-2026, Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> a écrit :
>
> Just make X great again.

As always, big mouth. Just, like it's easy. But you can't help because
it's too difficult for you.

What do you believe? That people abandoning X11 were stopping
maintaining it because they were obeying Red Hat? That people starting
Wayland from scratch were doing it just to piss off you and your kind?

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#86278

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-05-09 12:58 +0100
Message-ID<10tn7ht$3k3t6$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86271
On 09/05/2026 11:02, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> What do you believe? That people abandoning X11 were stopping
> maintaining it because they were obeying Red Hat? That people starting
> Wayland from scratch were doing it just to piss off you and your kind?

Probably.

It is difficult for people with limited worldviews to even conceive that 
other, or more encompassing, views even exist.

One of the big questions that always comes from the religious is 'what 
do you believe in then'? And the answer 'not a lot really' simply 
incenses them to disbelief (sic!).

A life without Belief is simply unimaginable to them.

The Left is similarly engaged in 'are you for X or a reactionary 
fascist'.  The answer that you really couldn't give a fuck either way 
arouses them to anger and violence.

Likewise one has to be for Trump, or against him. Whereas the true 
position ought to be that of an insignificant toad. Try not to step on 
him for fear or ruining your shoes, and otherwise shut the window to get 
rid of the croaking and ignore him.

He's started a war against Iran in order to Be Important, just like 
buddy Putin.
But in the end its just another pile of steaming turds. Even invading 
Iran wont fix the problem, just get a lot of Americans dead.

-- 
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over 
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that 
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

  Frédéric Bastiat

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