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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #85562 > unrolled thread
| Started by | ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-04-08 18:05 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-04-23 09:03 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 141 — 19 participants |
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Typical Mac users ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-04-08 18:05 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-08 20:09 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-08 19:19 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-08 21:25 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-08 21:54 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 15:20 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 03:43 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 11:53 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-09 13:09 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 12:23 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 14:15 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-09 07:59 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 17:24 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-04-09 13:25 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 20:09 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2026-04-10 14:22 +0300
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-10 16:21 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-11 21:54 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-12 09:25 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-04-12 10:08 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 12:07 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 19:14 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 21:28 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-09 12:53 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-10 13:35 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-10 18:16 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-10 20:31 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 10:21 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-08 21:51 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-09 11:52 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-04-09 13:37 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 19:20 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-09 22:06 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-10 03:34 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 07:04 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 19:17 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-09 22:07 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-08 20:39 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-08 22:14 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-11 00:22 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-11 09:52 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-08 20:37 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-08 22:48 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 03:57 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 17:26 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 11:51 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-04-09 12:34 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 03:51 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 11:54 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-04-21 16:05 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-21 19:10 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 10:04 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 12:46 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 20:46 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 10:01 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 12:45 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-04-22 13:49 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 14:24 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-22 21:16 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 15:21 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 20:49 +0100
[OT] reductio ad redscarium (was: Re: Typical Mac users) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 07:17 +0100
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 11:51 +0100
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-26 07:43 -0400
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-26 07:32 -0400
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-26 13:57 +0200
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-26 10:25 -0700
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 18:35 +0100
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-26 17:51 +0000
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 18:59 +0100
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-26 22:39 +0000
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-26 18:52 -0400
Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-27 11:15 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 20:49 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 19:09 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-22 18:31 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 22:02 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-23 15:02 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 09:52 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 09:23 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 08:01 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-04-23 05:36 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 08:11 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 09:49 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 16:31 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 14:19 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 19:59 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 19:32 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-24 08:33 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-24 09:30 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-24 08:48 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 08:26 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-23 12:35 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 15:16 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 09:11 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 17:35 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 16:42 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 09:14 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-24 08:41 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 13:45 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-24 16:06 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-24 10:57 -0400
FUD, again? (was: Re: Typical Mac users) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-25 10:53 +0100
Re: FUD, again? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-25 07:45 -0400
[OT] Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-25 10:44 +0100
Re: [OT] Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-25 07:29 -0400
Re: [OT] Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 07:23 +0100
Re: [OT] Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-26 07:36 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-23 18:47 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-25 10:57 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-25 18:52 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-04-23 08:53 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-22 13:47 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 20:43 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 19:07 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-22 21:51 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-23 15:05 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-22 15:33 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 09:51 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 08:21 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 17:04 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-23 19:06 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 16:40 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-23 23:44 +0200
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 20:02 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 14:20 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 16:39 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 09:34 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-22 23:21 +0000
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-22 18:30 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 21:59 -0400
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-22 19:03 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 09:56 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 08:20 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 17:03 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 14:21 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 09:46 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-24 09:34 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-25 11:14 +0100
Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-25 19:40 -0700
Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 09:03 -0400
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| From | ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-08 18:05 +0000 |
| Subject | Typical Mac users |
| Message-ID | <users-20260408190223@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> |
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted: :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to :point B". A scientist who uses Linux to study frequencies of words or diseases is someone who wants to use his computer as a tool to accomplish some other task, too. So, I appreciate your attempt to clarify what is special about Mac users, but I'm not sure whether your current wording is already the most accurate wording possible. Maybe someone can improve it.
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-08 20:09 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10r65k8$3pmph$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85562 |
On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote: > Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted: > :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their > :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to > :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners > :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to > :point B". > > A scientist who uses Linux to study frequencies of words or > diseases is someone who wants to use his computer as a tool > to accomplish some other task, too. > > So, I appreciate your attempt to clarify what is special about > Mac users, but I'm not sure whether your current wording is > already the most accurate wording possible. Maybe someone can > improve it. "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than only macOS laptop users." Sounds like quite some people use it like "us" ;-) (Source: AI answer: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+mac+users+are+developers) -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-08 19:19 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10r667u$3ohtf$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85563 |
On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote: > On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote: >> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted: >> :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their >> :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to >> :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners >> :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to >> :point B". Car analogies tend to be a somewhat bad medium. As for this one specifically: how do car owners view their cars exactly? Is it plausible to expect all of them view cars in the same way? You won't have a subset who prefers knowing how it operates, and a subset which strongly dislikes knowing details, and all the intermediate options? People who prefer driving stick with gear changes, and people who want automatic? Those who do not care about the energy source, those who use at least some sort of electric power, those who prefer gasoline, those who are into diesel... >> A scientist who uses Linux to study frequencies of words or >> diseases is someone who wants to use his computer as a tool >> to accomplish some other task, too. >> >> So, I appreciate your attempt to clarify what is special about >> Mac users, but I'm not sure whether your current wording is >> already the most accurate wording possible. Maybe someone can >> improve it. > > "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data > indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with > approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As 30 to 44 % of *what*? Who is maintaining a world-wide roster, or roster of rosters, of "professional developers"? Who counts as a "developer"? Are academic researches qualified? Only people whose job position is directly software development? Only people who pay Apple some fee? > of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across > its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than > only macOS laptop users." > > Sounds like quite some people use it like "us" ;-) > > > (Source: AI answer: > https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+mac+users+are+developers) -- Nuno Silva
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-08 21:25 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10r6a2j$3r417$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85564 |
On 08/04/2026 20:19, Nuno Silva wrote: > On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote: [..] >> "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data >> indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with >> approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As > > 30 to 44 % of *what*? Who is maintaining a world-wide roster, or roster > of rosters, of "professional developers"? Who counts as a "developer"? > Are academic researches qualified? Only people whose job position is > directly software development? Only people who pay Apple some fee? I have no idea, but: >> of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across >> its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than >> only macOS laptop users." A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives 34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad). -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-08 21:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10r6iq0$3td01$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85576 |
In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote: > On 08/04/2026 20:19, Nuno Silva wrote: >> On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote: > > [..] > >>> "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data >>> indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with >>> approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As >> >> 30 to 44 % of *what*? Who is maintaining a world-wide roster, or roster >> of rosters, of "professional developers"? Who counts as a "developer"? >> Are academic researches qualified? Only people whose job position is >> directly software development? Only people who pay Apple some fee? > > I have no idea, but: > >>> of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across >>> its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than >>> only macOS laptop users." > > A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives 34% of > its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know if one can > actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad). Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for the mac, etc. And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-08 15:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260408152005.000013df@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #85585 |
On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 21:54:08 -0000 (UTC) Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: > > A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives > > 34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know > > if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad). > > Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop > software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork > using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for > the mac, etc. And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to > accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating. While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership of a Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso facto a Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other platforms (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either, if you want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers...
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 03:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n3olj8F18vmU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #85587 |
On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 15:20:05 -0700, John Ames wrote: > While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very > *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm sure > that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership of a > Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso facto a > Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other platforms > (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either, if you > want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers... We had a project to develop an iOS app in conjunction with an Android app using Xamarin so we did buy a Mac Mini. The unboxing was interesting with programming and qa poking at it and wondering what to do with the thing. We eventually dropped the iOS attempt as being too much of a hassle for a proprietary, limited distribution app. At least then on Android you could sideload an apk. I did like the form factor of the Mini and bought a Beelink mini to play with. It came with Windows 11 Pro that lasted a couple of days before it became a Linux box. It's worked out really well. I don't know what ever happened to the Mini, probably on a shelf or in a desk drawer someplace.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 11:53 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10r80em$89fc$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85587 |
On 08/04/2026 23:20, John Ames wrote: > On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 21:54:08 -0000 (UTC) > Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: > >>> A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives >>> 34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know >>> if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad). >> >> Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop >> software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork >> using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for >> the mac, etc. And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to >> accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating. > > While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very > *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm > sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership > of a Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso > facto a Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other > platforms (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either, > if you want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers... > I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? My guess is that its over 60% -- "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch". Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 13:09 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <70ekamxrr2.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #85611 |
On 2026-04-09 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 08/04/2026 23:20, John Ames wrote: >> On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 21:54:08 -0000 (UTC) >> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >> >>>> A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives >>>> 34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know >>>> if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad). >>> >>> Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop >>> software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork >>> using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for >>> the mac, etc. And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to >>> accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating. >> >> While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very >> *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm >> sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership >> of a Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso >> facto a Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other >> platforms (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either, >> if you want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers... >> > I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? > My guess is that its over 60% > Depends how you define "program". Programmer for money, or a contributor? Program for himself only, often, or occasionally? -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 12:23 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10r827j$89fc$10@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85614 |
On 09/04/2026 12:09, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-04-09 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 08/04/2026 23:20, John Ames wrote: >>> On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 21:54:08 -0000 (UTC) >>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>>> A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives >>>>> 34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know >>>>> if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad). >>>> >>>> Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop >>>> software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork >>>> using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for >>>> the mac, etc. And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to >>>> accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating. >>> >>> While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very >>> *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm >>> sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership >>> of a Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso >>> facto a Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other >>> platforms (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either, >>> if you want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers... >>> >> I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? >> My guess is that its over 60% >> > > Depends how you define "program". Programmer for money, or a > contributor? Program for himself only, often, or occasionally? > > All of the above. -- The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property. Karl Marx
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 14:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10r858h$aapu$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85611 |
On 09/04/2026 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? > My guess is that its over 60% AI response: While there is no exact, single percentage for the total number of Linux users who program, Linux is the dominant operating system among professional developers and IT professionals. Data indicates that: High Adoption Among Developers: Roughly 78.5% of developers globally use Linux as a primary or secondary operating system. Workplace Usage: In 2024 surveys, a combined total of over 74% of developers reported using various desktop Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, etc.) for their professional work. Specific Distribution Use: As of 2025, approximately 27.7% of software developers use Ubuntu for professional purposes, followed by Debian at 10.4%. -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 07:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260409075917.00004bf7@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #85618 |
On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 14:15:11 +0200 John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote: > AI response: For the love of $DEITY, people, *stop doing this.* "AI" is a word-salad generator and does not know fact from fiction. If you can't be assed to research, don't pretend you have something more than a wild-ass guess.
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 17:24 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10r8gbc$ef73$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85622 |
On 09/04/2026 16:59, John Ames wrote: > On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 14:15:11 +0200 > John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote: > >> AI response: > > For the love of $DEITY, people, *stop doing this.* "AI" is a word-salad > generator and does not know fact from fiction. If you can't be assed to > research, don't pretend you have something more than a wild-ass guess. I link to the page it got the result from next time. -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 13:25 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10r8nef$gnbd$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85618 |
On 4/9/26 08:15, John Bokma wrote: > On 09/04/2026 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? >> My guess is that its over 60% > > AI response: > > ... > > Data indicates that: > > High Adoption Among Developers: Roughly 78.5% of developers globally use > Linux as a primary or secondary operating system. But that AI got the question wrong, so it provided an erroneous answer" The question asked was: "how many of Set L perform task P?". What AI answered was: "how many of task P belong to Set L?". FYI, you didn't catch the mistake either. -hh
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| From | John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-09 20:09 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10r8q0b$hm73$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85625 |
On 09/04/2026 19:25, -hh wrote: > On 4/9/26 08:15, John Bokma wrote: >> On 09/04/2026 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? >>> My guess is that its over 60% >> >> AI response: >> >> ... >> >> Data indicates that: >> >> High Adoption Among Developers: Roughly 78.5% of developers globally >> use Linux as a primary or secondary operating system. > > But that AI got the question wrong, so it provided an erroneous answer" > > The question asked was: "how many of Set L perform task P?". > > What AI answered was: "how many of task P belong to Set L?". > > > FYI, you didn't catch the mistake either. Good point. I nor Claude.ai could find an answer :-D. -- Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/ Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
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| From | Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-10 14:22 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <sm04iljkqk3.fsf@lakka.kapsi.fi> |
| In reply to | #85611 |
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: > I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? > My guess is that its over 60% Doesn't that depend on what "actually program" means? I write small things to automate stuff and process data but is that programming when mostly that is short-ish scripts of less than 100 lines?
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-10 16:21 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10rb4ig$15vj5$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85656 |
On 10/04/2026 12:22, Anssi Saari wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: > >> I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? >> My guess is that its over 60% > > Doesn't that depend on what "actually program" means? I write small > things to automate stuff and process data but is that programming when > mostly that is short-ish scripts of less than 100 lines? Considering that the average windows user cant program beyond an Excel spreadsheet, I'd say that it is... -- WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-11 21:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10refto$247bs$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85656 |
On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 14:22:52 +0300, Anssi Saari wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: > >> I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? My >> guess is that its over 60% > > Doesn't that depend on what "actually program" means? I write small > things to automate stuff and process data but is that programming > when mostly that is short-ish scripts of less than 100 lines? Shell scripts, Python scripts, Perl, JavaScript, even (shudder) PHP code -- absolutely that would all count as “programming”. Back in the 1980s they used to talk about a “software crisis” -- too few programmers taking too long to write all the code that needed writing. That went away precisely as a result of the adoption of very-high-level languages like shell and Python.
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-12 09:25 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10rfhdb$1k4db$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #85693 |
Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >Back in the 1980s they used to talk about a “software crisis” -- too >few programmers taking too long to write all the code that needed >writing. That went away precisely as a result of the adoption of >very-high-level languages like shell and Python. I think you forgot perl. perl has been an alternative to shell¹ a decade earlier than Python. Greetings Marc ¹ use perl. You want to know shell, and then not use it. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " | Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
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| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-12 10:08 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10rg91g$2j83e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85656 |
On 4/10/26 07:22, Anssi Saari wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: > >> I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? >> My guess is that its over 60% > > Doesn't that depend on what "actually program" means? I write small > things to automate stuff and process data but is that programming when > mostly that is short-ish scripts of less than 100 lines? There's a lot of ambiguities here. For example, the original statement wasn't "program" but "developer", but what I think is also quite relevant is that both seem to be assuming that the only job description of notional interest is something in the IT fields. Yet there's ample people out there who have been "Material Developers" and "Program Managers" where the product(s) under development/management weren't IT based at all. BTDT for both. So for this ambiguous "N% are..." metric, are these non-IT categories being included --or excluded-- from the notional count? -hh
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