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KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri

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  KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-17 01:50 +0000
    Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri John McCue <jmclnx@SPAMisBADgmail.com> - 2026-02-17 02:37 +0000
      Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-17 03:54 +0000
      Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-17 05:07 +0000
      Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-02-17 11:57 -0500
        Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-02-17 11:25 -0800
        Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-17 21:44 +0000
          Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-02-18 12:04 -0500
            Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-18 19:20 +0000
    Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-02-16 21:26 -0800
      Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 10:27 +0000
    Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2026-02-17 09:50 +0100
      Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-17 16:09 +0100
        Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-18 00:36 +0000
          Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-18 11:45 +0000
            Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-02-18 09:39 -0800
              Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-18 19:50 +0000
                Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-02-19 19:28 +0100
    Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2026-02-18 12:41 +0200
      Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-18 19:15 +0000
        Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2026-02-20 11:45 +0200

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#82052 — KaOS dropping KDE, going ti Niri

https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-
tries-to-escape-systemd/

They really. really don't like systemd.  Niri runs on Wayland so they 
split the difference on things people love to hate. 

Not a big deal for Mint to drop the original Kde approach but the distro 
name comes from K(de)aOS. 

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#82053

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-tries-to-escape-systemd/
> 
> They really. really don't like systemd.  Niri runs on Wayland so
> they  split the difference on things people love to hate. 
> 
> Not a big deal for Mint to drop the original Kde approach but the
> distro  name comes from K(de)aOS. 

This is a hard decision, but probably necessary due to the
amount of work avoiding systemd.  I think KDE/systemd is a
struggle Slackware is facing also.

But I believe the day will come were Linux distros will be
unable to avoid systemd.  If people want to avoid it, they
should look at a BSD and get use to it "just in case".

That is what I have been doing.

-- 
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
                        - Paraphrasing Star Wars

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#82054 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 02:37:19 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

> But I believe the day will come were Linux distros will be unable to
> avoid systemd. If people want to avoid it, they should look at a BSD
> and get use to it "just in case".

Even the BSDs have been looking at creating their own systemd
workalike.

It’s called “InitWare”.

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#82055

On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 02:37:19 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

> But I believe the day will come were Linux distros will be unable to
> avoid systemd.  If people want to avoid it, they should look at a BSD
> and get use to it "just in case".

It's on all of my machines, counting the Pi and isn't a problem. otoh, my 
impression is the various BSD distros aren't quite ready yet.  Neither it 
nor Wayland are hills I would die on anymore. When I was doing Motif on 
X11 it would have been a different story. It wasn't that Motif was great 
but it was entwined around a lot of legacy code. 

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#82073 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

John McCue <jmclnx@SPAMisBADgmail.com> writes:

> This is a hard decision, but probably necessary due to the
> amount of work avoiding systemd.  I think KDE/systemd is a
> struggle Slackware is facing also.
We have a thread about this on Linuxquestions Slackware
subforum. Personally, I'd kick it to the curb but apparently alot of
Slackware users like using it for the desktop. I'd put the link but it
seems the site is under a spam attack the last couple of days and I
can't get on right now. 

> But I believe the day will come were Linux distros will be
> unable to avoid systemd.  If people want to avoid it, they
> should look at a BSD and get use to it "just in case".
systemd is really a fork of gnu/linux, and should be rightfully called
"systemd/linux" because it's vastly different from gnu/linux. I'm all
about choice but at some point there *is* no choice. Good luck using
Linux without PAM, udev, or dbus on a modern system. systemd will be
like that soon. At least those things kept to one area of the system and
didn't try to re-write the entire user and administrator interface while
claiming to be an "init system". 

I already have Omni and Openindiana systems. If I have to, I'll use the
last gnu/linux before systemd takes it and use that for hardware that
illumos won't run but keep everything else off Linux. The hardware
support isn't as good as BSD, and of course nowhere near Linux, but
that's what I'll have to work with because I absolutely will not be
kissing the systemd ring. Going back to Windows ain't going to happen
and I hate Apple (it's over-priced on top of everything else). 

ssh ibushi uname -a
SunOS ibushi 5.11 illumos-f8f3128c12 i86pc i386 i86pc

-- 
PGP Key ID: 781C A3E2 C6ED 70A6 B356  7AF5 B510 542E D460 5CAE
       "The Internet should always be the Wild West!"

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#82075 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On 2/17/26 08:57, jayjwa wrote:
> John McCue <jmclnx@SPAMisBADgmail.com> writes:
> 
>> This is a hard decision, but probably necessary due to the
>> amount of work avoiding systemd.  I think KDE/systemd is a
>> struggle Slackware is facing also.
> We have a thread about this on Linuxquestions Slackware
> subforum. Personally, I'd kick it to the curb but apparently alot of
> Slackware users like using it for the desktop. I'd put the link but it
> seems the site is under a spam attack the last couple of days and I
> can't get on right now.
> 
>> But I believe the day will come were Linux distros will be
>> unable to avoid systemd.  If people want to avoid it, they
>> should look at a BSD and get use to it "just in case".
> systemd is really a fork of gnu/linux, and should be rightfully called
> "systemd/linux" because it's vastly different from gnu/linux. I'm all
> about choice but at some point there *is* no choice. Good luck using
> Linux without PAM, udev, or dbus on a modern system. systemd will be
> like that soon. At least those things kept to one area of the system and
> didn't try to re-write the entire user and administrator interface while
> claiming to be an "init system".
> 
> I already have Omni and Openindiana systems. If I have to, I'll use the
> last gnu/linux before systemd takes it and use that for hardware that
> illumos won't run but keep everything else off Linux. The hardware
> support isn't as good as BSD, and of course nowhere near Linux, but
> that's what I'll have to work with because I absolutely will not be
> kissing the systemd ring. Going back to Windows ain't going to happen
> and I hate Apple (it's over-priced on top of everything else).
> 
> ssh ibushi uname -a
> SunOS ibushi 5.11 illumos-f8f3128c12 i86pc i386 i86pc
> 

	KDE is not going to require systemd according to a story reported
on 9-5 Linux site quoted below:
> KDE Says Plasma Desktop Will Never Force Users to Use systemd
> Only the Plasma Login Manager will be dependent on systemd, but future Plasma releases aren’t
> dependent on Plasma Login Manager, nor systemd.
> by Marcus Nestor  February 16th, 2026 -7 Comments

<https://9to5linux.com/kde-says-plasma-desktop-will-never-force-users-to-use-systemd>

Oh and by the way PCLinuxOS is anti-systemd and we have had a week of
some hysteria over the bad reporting.

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.01- Linux 6.12.71 pclos1- KDE 
Plasma 6.5.5

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#82078 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 11:57:30 -0500, jayjwa wrote:

> Good luck using Linux without PAM, udev, or dbus on a modern system.

Well, unless your definition of “modern” is circular (i.e. a system
*with* PAM, udev and D-Bus), I’m curious to know what alternatives you
are suggesting (possibly not Linux-based?) that would be comparably
“modern” without those underpinnings.

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#82089 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

>> Good luck using Linux without PAM, udev, or dbus on a modern system.
>
> Well, unless your definition of “modern” is circular (i.e. a system
> *with* PAM, udev and D-Bus)
Well, you got me there. My point was, that PAM is somewhat new in
Slackware and, once things reach a certain critial mass, everyone has to
jump on board with it. Such was the case with udev, PAM, dbus,
etc. systemd will be like this.

Here's the thread I was referring to yesterday:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/kde%27s-%27plasma-login-manager%27-stops-supporting-freebsd-because-systemd-4175757703/

It is the login manager. For now. 

-- 
PGP Key ID: 781C A3E2 C6ED 70A6 B356  7AF5 B510 542E D460 5CAE
       "The Internet should always be the Wild West!"

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#82092 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 12:04:17 -0500, jayjwa wrote:

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> 
>>> Good luck using Linux without PAM, udev, or dbus on a modern system.
>>
>> Well, unless your definition of “modern” is circular (i.e. a system
>> *with* PAM, udev and D-Bus)
> Well, you got me there. My point was, that PAM is somewhat new in
> Slackware and, once things reach a certain critial mass, everyone has to
> jump on board with it. Such was the case with udev, PAM, dbus,
> etc. systemd will be like this.

I recently found out more about PAM than I really wanted to know on a 
Lenovo laptop running EndeavourOS.  The laptop has a fingerprint reader 
that I was trying to get working and that required editing PAM files.

I got it to work but it didn't work well with my use case. The laptop is 
usually on a KVM switch and reaching over to the reader to sudo was 
awkward. It would be better if using it as a laptop. 

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#82056

On 2/16/26 17:50, rbowman wrote:
> https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-
> tries-to-escape-systemd/
> 
> They really. really don't like systemd.  Niri runs on Wayland so they
> split the difference on things people love to hate.
> 
> Not a big deal for Mint to drop the original Kde approach but the distro
> name comes from K(de)aOS.

	Well we suffer from bad reporting and KDE denies it intends to force
systemd on anyone.
	I think people talked about it online in one place and another.

> KDE Says Plasma Desktop Will Never Force Users to Use systemd
> Only the Plasma Login Manager will be dependent on systemd, but 
 > future Plasma releases aren’t dependent on Plasma Login Manager, nor 
systemd.> by Marcus Nestor February 16th, 2026  7 Comments
Read the whole article at:
<https://9to5linux.com/kde-says-plasma-desktop-will-never-force-users-to-use-systemd>
	
	I got this news thru the PCLinuxOS Forum from the editor of our magazine
aka Parnote who publishes PCLinux Magazine for February, 2026, Volume 229
which anyone can get in several formats and even read online in .html
  at: <https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1053>

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.01- Linux 6.12.71 pclos1- KDE 
Plasma 6.5.5

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#82061

On 2026-02-17, Nuno Silva wrote:

> On 2026-02-16, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>> Actually Plasma 5 was very light but Plasma 6 added back a lot of volume
>> in disk and  memory space. Despite that it contains useful improvements
>> especially to the clipboard.  Sadly KDE has decided to beome dependent
>> on systemd so that it will become much heavier and I will have to give it
>> up as PCLinuxOS is specifically anti-systemd or Poettering's folly as we
>> call it.  I started using KDE about 20 years ago on version 3.57 for
>> Mandriva because it gave me a Desktop Environment on which I could
>> maintain the workflow I had become accustomed to on AmigaOS.
>
> Not that this says anything about whether it will depend more on systemd
> or not, but some posts I saw on the fediverse suggest that currently
> only their graphical login manager depends/will depend on systemd.
>
> If the KDE sources are not misleading and really mean it by saying it's
> just the login manager, then the desktop itself ought to be still usable
> without systemd.

(Ok, now I've reached your post below, saying basically the same :-) :)

On 2026-02-17, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> On 2/16/26 17:50, rbowman wrote:
>> https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-
>> tries-to-escape-systemd/
[...]
> 	Well we suffer from bad reporting and KDE denies it intends to force
> systemd on anyone.
> 	I think people talked about it online in one place and another.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#82057

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-
>tries-to-escape-systemd/

Who cares?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE   |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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#82070

On 17.02.2026 09:50 Marc Haber wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> >https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-
> >tries-to-escape-systemd/  
> 
> Who cares?

Some people really care about that. Slackware will also need to
circumvent it or stop shipping KDE.

The BSDs will also be affected, as they cannot simply include systemd.

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#82081 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 16:09:46 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:

> On 17.02.2026 09:50 Marc Haber wrote:
>
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-tries-to-escape-systemd/
>>
>> Who cares?
>
> Some people really care about that.

If they did, they would come up with an alternative. Or sponsor the
creation of one.

As I keep saying: the code doesn’t write itself, you know.

> Slackware will also need to circumvent it or stop shipping KDE.

They’ve already started including PulseAudio ... just in time for it
to be obsoleted by PipeWire. So they’re not exactly ... how should I
put it ... Lennart-virgins, are they?

> The BSDs will also be affected, as they cannot simply include
> systemd.

They’re working on their own systemd-alike, don’t worry ...

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#82087 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On 2026-02-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 16:09:46 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>
>> On 17.02.2026 09:50 Marc Haber wrote:
>>
>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-tries-to-escape-systemd/
>>>
>>> Who cares?
>>
>> Some people really care about that.
>
> If they did, they would come up with an alternative. Or sponsor the
> creation of one.

You realize that a load of stuff had existed for decades before systemd
appeared, right?

> As I keep saying: the code doesn’t write itself, you know.

The code was already written.

[...]
>> The BSDs will also be affected, as they cannot simply include
>> systemd.
>
> They’re working on their own systemd-alike, don’t worry ...

I had no idea the world of BSDs was this monolithic, is something like
that even something you can state globally for all BSDs?

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#82090 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On 2/18/26 03:45, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-02-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 16:09:46 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>>
>>> On 17.02.2026 09:50 Marc Haber wrote:
>>>
>>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-tries-to-escape-systemd/
>>>>
>>>> Who cares?
>>>
>>> Some people really care about that.
>>
>> If they did, they would come up with an alternative. Or sponsor the
>> creation of one.
> 
> You realize that a load of stuff had existed for decades before systemd
> appeared, right?
> 
>> As I keep saying: the code doesn’t write itself, you know.
> 
> The code was already written.
> 
> [...]
>>> The BSDs will also be affected, as they cannot simply include
>>> systemd.
>>
>> They’re working on their own systemd-alike, don’t worry ...
> 
> I had no idea the world of BSDs was this monolithic, is something like
> that even something you can state globally for all BSDs?
> 

	What a waste of time systemd is.  SysV still works fine.
	
bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.01- Linux 6.12.71 pclos1- KDE 
Plasma 6.5.5

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#82093 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 09:39:40 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> 	What a waste of time systemd is.  SysV still works fine.

And systemd works fine, too. It doesn't matter to me enough to seek out a 
SysV distro, so I've learned to use systemd and forgotten how to use sysv.

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#82113 — Re: KaOS dropping KDE, going to Niri

On 2026-02-18 20:50, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 09:39:40 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> 
>> 	What a waste of time systemd is.  SysV still works fine.
> 
> And systemd works fine, too. It doesn't matter to me enough to seek out a
> SysV distro, so I've learned to use systemd and forgotten how to use sysv.

Same here.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#82086

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

> https://www.xda-developers.com/linux-distro-dropped-kde-plasma-support-
> tries-to-escape-systemd/
>
> They really. really don't like systemd.  Niri runs on Wayland so they 
> split the difference on things people love to hate. 

Interesting. Not KaOS but this "Niri/Noctalia" might be. Ehh, so Niri is
a compositor which I think implies window manager in Wayland and
Noctalia is a desktop shell? Might take look on an Arch system.

I'm interested since I dunno if I'm ready to go to Wayland when KDE
drops X11 support but we'll see. I had a quick try of KDE on Wayland
recently, was "mostly fine" for a quick look. But then that was just
email/browswer/terminal/Emacs and the devil's in the details, as
always. My other GUI environment runs just Awesome WM which hasn't seen
a release since 2019 so eventually that'll come to some kind of an end.

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#82091

On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 12:41:01 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:


> Interesting. Not KaOS but this "Niri/Noctalia" might be. Ehh, so Niri is
> a compositor which I think implies window manager in Wayland and
> Noctalia is a desktop shell? Might take look on an Arch system.

I haven't used it but it doesn't look appealing from the video on github.

https://github.com/niri-wm/niri?tab=readme-ov-file

I use i3/sway with one workspace divided into 3 parts, two vertical panes 
on the left, one on the right. Top left is auduino_cli, bottom left is 
minicom, and the right is Vim. I think with Niri I would wind up with 
three full height side by side panels. KaOS is way down the distro list 
but switching users from KDE to a scrolling WM may be a heavy lift.

 
> I'm interested since I dunno if I'm ready to go to Wayland when KDE
> drops X11 support but we'll see. I had a quick try of KDE on Wayland
> recently, was "mostly fine" for a quick look. But then that was just
> email/browswer/terminal/Emacs and the devil's in the details, as always.
> My other GUI environment runs just Awesome WM which hasn't seen a
> release since 2019 so eventually that'll come to some kind of an end.

I've got KDE/Wayland on two boxes with no problems for anything I do but 
I'm not a gamer. A few versions ago QGIS did have a popup saying some of 
the dialogs might act strange. I didn't encounter the problem and it was 
fixed in later releases. The Ubuntu/GNOME box is also Wayland with no 
problems.

The Mint laptop is X11. There is an option at login for a Cinnamon/Wayland 
session that I tried once. It locked up after about 5 minutes. Cinnamon/
X11 is stable. I think part of going to a longer release cycle is to allow 
the developers to work on the Wayland version. 

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