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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #69945 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-07-26 18:40 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-08-01 19:26 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 188 — 18 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc
Artix Linux and Xlibre Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2025-07-26 18:40 -0400
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-27 00:30 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-26 18:47 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-27 01:57 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-26 20:28 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-27 04:38 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-07-27 02:38 -0400
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2025-08-02 12:13 -0400
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-27 00:58 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-27 22:01 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:14 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:55 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 09:33 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-30 21:19 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 23:40 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-30 23:32 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-31 10:30 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-31 17:01 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-31 22:44 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-02 09:30 +1000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-01 23:50 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-02 10:03 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-02 13:36 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-02 14:59 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:59 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 12:13 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 12:58 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 16:34 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 17:08 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-03 18:20 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-04 09:35 +1000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-04 16:10 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-03 13:38 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 22:47 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-03 21:55 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:03 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 09:28 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-06 19:56 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 21:27 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 22:46 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-07 17:46 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 13:36 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 12:56 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-07 03:28 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 12:48 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 11:26 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-11 21:06 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 15:19 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-11 22:27 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 15:54 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-12 02:28 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-12 02:27 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-11 22:18 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 15:49 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-11 23:27 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 08:37 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-12 20:15 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-12 23:29 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-13 09:05 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-13 19:13 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-13 21:32 +0200
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-13 21:29 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-14 11:20 +0200
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-14 12:03 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-14 00:49 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-14 11:21 +0200
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-14 01:12 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-14 13:04 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-14 21:00 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-14 22:48 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-15 02:56 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-17 09:12 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-14 00:16 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-14 08:56 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-14 09:41 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-14 11:58 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-14 13:07 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-15 08:27 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-14 00:46 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-14 13:03 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-14 12:31 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 12:46 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 00:21 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 00:20 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-04 04:24 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:05 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-06 20:24 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-04 16:23 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:54 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 08:35 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 07:48 +0000
Wayland (was: Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-06 02:28 +0000
Re: Wayland (was: Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 04:22 +0000
Re: Wayland Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:10 +0100
Re: Wayland Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-06 14:42 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 11:04 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-05 20:02 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 08:29 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-05 18:19 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 19:59 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 12:02 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 20:10 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 04:24 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-05 21:46 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 06:33 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-06 09:13 +1000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 04:23 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:18 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 09:01 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-06 22:11 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-07 03:25 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 14:14 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-07 23:14 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 15:56 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 04:18 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-08 06:00 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-08 08:49 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 21:25 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-08 15:38 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-09 00:05 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 10:24 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-09 10:58 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-09 17:10 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 22:33 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 22:26 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-10 10:15 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-08-10 09:03 -0400
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-10 14:24 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-10 07:29 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-10 20:06 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-11 11:56 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-11 21:12 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-11 01:00 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-09 22:39 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-08 08:42 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-08 16:02 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-08 09:00 +1000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 13:05 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:15 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-06 14:46 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 08:26 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-03 00:06 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 11:42 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-30 19:39 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-31 01:06 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-30 21:23 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-28 00:21 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-28 13:57 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-28 22:26 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 05:37 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 09:02 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 11:13 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:46 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 23:51 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 23:22 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 11:45 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-30 21:18 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-29 07:45 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:44 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-29 16:26 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 23:54 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:17 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 23:23 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-29 15:44 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:56 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 09:18 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 18:18 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2025-08-02 12:15 -0400
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-07-27 09:19 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-28 00:19 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-07-27 23:06 -0400
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-28 05:27 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-26 18:41 -0700
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-28 00:18 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-07-27 22:40 -0400
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-31 13:48 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-07-31 16:22 +0200
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-31 17:02 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-31 22:58 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-01 01:53 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 08:07 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 09:47 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 10:24 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 10:57 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 11:10 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-01 17:15 +0000
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 19:14 +0100
Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-01 19:26 +0000
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-14 12:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <107kkvm$fkcm$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70920 |
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 23:29:04 -0000 (UTC) > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> Obviously Blender on Wayland has no control over the position of its >> GUI relative to other applications’ windows, but I never cared about >> that. > > That's fine for you, but yet again you do not seem to understand that > something not being important to *you, personally* does not mean that > *other people* don't care about it. Either the Lawrence nick actually ascribes to the wayland dev's mindset of "use what I give you, damnit, otherwise sit down and shut up" or (and this is my vote) you've been trolled by the Lawrence nick. >> KiCad could do something similar to this. > > They could, yes. They could pour developer hours into re-engineering > their entire layout/workflow and force their userbase on *every other > platform* (including Linux under X11) to adapt to the new way of doing > things, all for the sake of aligning with the design philosophy of a > minority of a minority of their userbase. > > Sure! Makes sense to *me!* Also makes a good position to take when the L nick is trolling the group.
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| From | Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-09 12:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6897430b$0$16825$426a74cc@news.free.fr> |
| In reply to | #70441 |
Le 06-08-2025, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> a écrit : > On 2025-08-03, rbowman wrote: > >> Some X functionality was removed from Wayland by design to improve >> security. There is no 'fix'. > > That's a frequent argument, but is that indeed true? Yes. > All the missing features, even ones that have to be implemented by other > projects, are missing from the graphical system *because of security*? Why did you changed his claim? I can tell the differences between "all" and "some". Can't you? -- Si vous avez du temps à perdre : https://scarpet42.gitlab.io
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-04 00:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <106oue6$1sov2$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70302 |
On Sun, 3 Aug 2025 22:47:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > When I first saw Linux it didn't have a functional GUI at all. It still doesn’t. All it has in the kernel is the “DRM” (“Direct Rendering Manager”) drivers. The GUI itself is implemented entirely in userland.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-04 00:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <106ouc3$1sov2$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70301 |
On Sun, 3 Aug 2025 13:38:23 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > On 8/3/25 04:13, Richard Kettlewell wrote: >> >> In the case of X11, my understanding is that the outcome of getting >> rid of all that cruft is Wayland. >> > Cruft to you is functionality that Wayland has yet to demonstrate. Cruft -- unnecessary legacy baggage that almost nobody cares about any more. Like providing its own graphics API and font server. The font server disappeared without trace a few decades ago, but the (antiquated) graphics API is still hanging around. Wayland gets rid of that. >> KiCad Advises Linux Users to Stick with X11 for Professional PCB Design >> By Bobby Borisov June 27, 2025 >> >> The KiCad team outlines serious Wayland limitations, including window >> control and crashes, urging users to stick with X11 desktops for >> reliability. > > So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland. Interesting that no other application seems to be bothered by this. I imagine the KiCad people will come around eventually. They could do what Blender did from the beginning: implement its own window manager within a single GUI window. That allowed it to support custom “workspaces” (what were previously called “layouts”) to allow quick switching between the various stages of a content-creation workflow.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-04 04:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mfaqveFu1veU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70307 |
On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 00:20:19 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > I imagine the KiCad people will come around eventually. https://www.kicad.org/blog/2025/06/KiCad-and-Wayland-Support/ "Linux is already a small section of the KiCad userbase. Further fragmentation by window manager creates an unsustainable support burden." I get the feeling that eventually may be the week after hell freezes over.
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-06 09:05 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <106v2d7$3889m$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70307 |
On 2025-08-04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sun, 3 Aug 2025 13:38:23 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > >> On 8/3/25 04:13, Richard Kettlewell wrote: >> >>> KiCad Advises Linux Users to Stick with X11 for Professional PCB Design >>> By Bobby Borisov June 27, 2025 >>> >>> The KiCad team outlines serious Wayland limitations, including window >>> control and crashes, urging users to stick with X11 desktops for >>> reliability. >> >> So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland. > > Interesting that no other application seems to be bothered by this. Actually, quite a few people have complained about their use of a graphical system not being compatible with Wayland. It's just that some bullies try hard to silence that and pretend such use cases don't exist. And xscreensaver also seems to be having some troubles, at least. -- Nuno Silva
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-06 20:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mfhrvsF56moU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70442 |
On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:05:59 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote: > Actually, quite a few people have complained about their use of a > graphical system not being compatible with Wayland. It's just that some > bullies try hard to silence that and pretend such use cases don't exist. For a while QGIS had a banner when it came up saying some dialogs might not work well with Wayland. Apparently they found a workaround because I haven't seen it recently.
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| From | Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-04 16:23 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <wwvms8fdsa9.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> |
| In reply to | #70301 |
Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes: > On 8/3/25 04:13, Richard Kettlewell wrote: >> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes: >>> I always mention postScript, X windows and systemd as examples of >>> stuff that really didn't work that great when first introduced, and >>> took a long time to get going bug free and was always - in the case of >>> PostScript and X windows a huge amount of code that by and large *no >>> one ever used*. >> >> In the case of X11, my understanding is that the outcome of getting >> rid of all that cruft is Wayland. > > Cruft to you is functionality that Wayland has yet to demonstrate. AIUI mostly it reflects functionality that’s handled in client applications. >> KiCad Advises Linux Users to Stick with X11 for Professional PCB >> Design >> By Bobby Borisov June 27, 2025 >> The KiCad team outlines serious Wayland limitations, including >> window control and crashes, urging users to stick with X11 desktops >> for reliability. Full article at the next URL: >> <https://linuxiac.com/kicad-advises-linux-users-to-stick-with-x11-for-professional-pcb-design/> > > So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland. Some of that does look look missing functionality, but other bits looks like bugs not having been ironed out yet, or other kinds of issues that get fixed fairly naturally. These things take time. -- https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-05 05:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <106s6ae$2irb0$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70331 |
On Mon, 04 Aug 2025 16:23:58 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote: > Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes: >> >> So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland. > > Some of that does look look missing functionality ... There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that applications shall neither know nor care about the positions of their windows on the screen, and possibly even their Z-order layering. The KiCad folks have decided to turn their back on Wayland because of this, because they want the ability to control the layouts of their multiple-window interface. Blender manages this just fine, and I think KiCad can do it in a similar way.
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| From | Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-05 08:35 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <wwv7bziqkz4.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> |
| In reply to | #70349 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > Richard Kettlewell wrote: >> Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes: >>> So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland. >> >> Some of that does look look missing functionality ... > > There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that applications > shall neither know nor care about the positions of their windows on the > screen, and possibly even their Z-order layering. From [1] it looks like they’ve realized the trouble this superficially rather bizarre policy causes and are walking it back. [1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264 -- https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-05 07:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <106sd13$2kjh7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70353 |
On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:35:43 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >> >> There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that >> applications shall neither know nor care about the positions of >> their windows on the screen, and possibly even their Z-order >> layering. > > From [1] it looks like they’ve realized the trouble this > superficially rather bizarre policy causes and are walking it back. Blender manages this just fine, and I think KiCad can do it in a similar way.
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-06 02:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Wayland (was: Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre) |
| Message-ID | <mffsv7Fn9hlU7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70356 |
On Tue, 5 Aug 2025 07:48:51 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <106sd13$2kjh7$1@dont-email.me>: > On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:35:43 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >>> >>> There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that >>> applications shall neither know nor care about the positions of their >>> windows on the screen, and possibly even their Z-order layering. >> >> From [1] it looks like they’ve realized the trouble this superficially >> rather bizarre policy causes and are walking it back. > > Blender manages this just fine, and I think KiCad can do it in a similar > way. So, does Blender manage it using an "MDI" -- that is, everything managed within one window? If so: I thought some folks were trying to stay away from that? (I like Gimp's single-window interface, personally.) -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G OS: Linux 6.16.0 D: Mint 22.1 DE: Xfce 4.18 NVIDIA: 575.64.05 Mem: 258G "Multitasking = 3 PCs and a chair with wheels!"
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-06 04:22 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Wayland (was: Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre) |
| Message-ID | <106ulan$35j8e$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70417 |
“MDI” = “Multiple Document Interface”. Blender only opens one document at a time.
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-06 09:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Wayland |
| Message-ID | <106v2lu$3889m$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70421 |
On 2025-08-06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > “MDI” = “Multiple Document Interface”. Blender only opens one document at > a time. Which, if accurate, would then be a misinterpretation made clear by what followed in the post you replied to. So why even do this, especially without context? -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-06 14:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Wayland |
| Message-ID | <106vpl3$3eg55$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70443 |
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 2025-08-06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > >> “MDI” = “Multiple Document Interface”. Blender only opens one document at >> a time. > > Which, if accurate, would then be a misinterpretation made clear by what > followed in the post you replied to. So why even do this, especially > without context? Because that nick is trolling, that is why.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-05 11:04 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <106sl06$2lst5$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70353 |
On 05/08/2025 08:35, Richard Kettlewell wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >> Richard Kettlewell wrote: >>> Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes: >>>> So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland. >>> >>> Some of that does look look missing functionality ... >> >> There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that applications >> shall neither know nor care about the positions of their windows on the >> screen, and possibly even their Z-order layering. > Interesting...a certain security sense in that - it is the Window Managers job to deal with all that. I'd be interested to know why you think an application needs to know that... > From [1] it looks like they’ve realized the trouble this superficially > rather bizarre policy causes and are walking it back. > > [1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264 > Well if users want it, who are they to refuse? -- Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas? Josef Stalin
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-05 20:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mff6a3Fm9euU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70370 |
On Tue, 5 Aug 2025 11:04:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > 05/08/2025 08:35, Richard Kettlewell wrote: >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >>> Richard Kettlewell wrote: >>>> Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes: >>>>> So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland. >>>> >>>> Some of that does look look missing functionality ... >>> >>> There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that >>> applications shall neither know nor care about the positions of their >>> windows on the screen, and possibly even their Z-order layering. >> > Interesting...a certain security sense in that - it is the Window > Managers job to deal with all that. > I'd be interested to know why you think an application needs to know > that... One of our components is a main screen with summaries of the incidents in progress which opens entry screens for the details of each incident. Typically there are three entry screens but that is configurable. The user can position them as they prefer, including on a second monitor. The position values are saved per user. This is with Motif. Dialog screens can also be positioned, and be made modal. System modal is used sparingly since it stops everything until the user responds but if an officer triggers and emergency alert you don't want it to be ignored because all the dispatchers are focused on something else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif_(software) The z-order can be used to bring an entry screen to the front as necessary. The X system also allows for IPC by passing atoms between processes. I don't think that is possible in Wayland either. I haven't worked with Wayland and don't know what is possible. I do know if you work with Motif you wind up using the Xt API and well as dipping into Xlib. Those older apps would need a complete rewrite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Toolkit_Intrinsics I don't know how many Motif dinosaurs are prowling the world. Gtk, Qt, WxWidgets, and others aren't as tightly integrated.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-05 08:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20250805082933.000002c3@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #70353 |
On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:35:43 +0100 Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that > > applications shall neither know nor care about the positions of > > their windows on the screen, and possibly even their Z-order > > layering. > > From [1] it looks like they’ve realized the trouble this superficially > rather bizarre policy causes and are walking it back. It's always delicious to watch when diva developers are made to blink. Tee hee!
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-05 18:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <106thun$2tl20$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70353 |
Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>> Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes:
>>>> So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland.
>>>
>>> Some of that does look look missing functionality ...
>>
>> There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that applications
>> shall neither know nor care about the positions of their windows on the
>> screen, and possibly even their Z-order layering.
>
> From [1] it looks like they’ve realized the trouble this superficially
> rather bizarre policy causes and are walking it back.
>
> [1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264
Reading some of the history reveals an amazing arrogance and (to put
this into Eric Raymond terms) a very "Cathedral style" of development
mindset. We, the great and holy monks residing in the rareified air of
the holy Cathedral have decided that you, the lowly bazzar members, do
not need X, Y or Z, and so thou shall not be allowed to have X, Y or Z
in the new bazzar we are building for you to use on the other side of
the river.
Especially amazing is the back and forth of:
"please explain why you need this"
"explanation ..."
"that is not a valid explanation according to my personal secret
opinion of what makes an explanation valid"
"another explanation ..."
"that is not a valid explanation according to my personal secret
opinion of what makes an explanation valid"
"yet a third, very valid, explanation ..."
"that is not a valid explanation according to my personal secret
opinion of what makes an explanation valid"
and so on.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-05 19:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <106tkba$2ugbe$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70390 |
On 05/08/2025 19:19, Rich wrote: > Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >>> Richard Kettlewell wrote: >>>> Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes: >>>>> So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland. >>>> >>>> Some of that does look look missing functionality ... >>> >>> There is a deliberate policy in the design of Wayland that applications >>> shall neither know nor care about the positions of their windows on the >>> screen, and possibly even their Z-order layering. >> >> From [1] it looks like they’ve realized the trouble this superficially >> rather bizarre policy causes and are walking it back. >> >> [1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264 > > Reading some of the history reveals an amazing arrogance and (to put > this into Eric Raymond terms) a very "Cathedral style" of development > mindset. We, the great and holy monks residing in the rareified air of > the holy Cathedral have decided that you, the lowly bazzar members, do > not need X, Y or Z, and so thou shall not be allowed to have X, Y or Z > in the new bazzar we are building for you to use on the other side of > the river. > > Especially amazing is the back and forth of: > > "please explain why you need this" > > "explanation ..." > > "that is not a valid explanation according to my personal secret > opinion of what makes an explanation valid" > > "another explanation ..." > > "that is not a valid explanation according to my personal secret > opinion of what makes an explanation valid" > > "yet a third, very valid, explanation ..." > > "that is not a valid explanation according to my personal secret > opinion of what makes an explanation valid" > > and so on. In a non-socialist free market culture that is followed by : 'well fuck you then, I will buy or use for free someone else's product that isn't so fsking judgemental'... -- The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with what it actually is.
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