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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #61095 > unrolled thread

Joy of this, Joy of that

Started byroot <NoEMail@home.org>
First post2024-11-19 17:09 +0000
Last post2024-11-20 18:53 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 842 — 23 participants

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Contents

  Joy of this, Joy of that root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-11-19 17:09 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 00:18 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-11-20 02:33 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 02:52 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 04:46 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-20 03:37 -0500
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-20 15:46 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-20 16:03 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 02:20 -0500
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 08:14 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-14 12:03 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-21 13:41 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2024-11-21 20:19 -0700
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 05:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 23:57 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 05:31 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 20:23 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 02:06 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-24 00:16 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:14 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:16 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:39 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-23 13:46 -0700
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:33 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:57 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 20:17 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:26 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:37 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:39 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 17:00 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-24 22:07 +0100
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 02:12 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:55 +0100
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 12:04 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 22:20 +0100
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 23:55 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:10 +0100
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-26 10:24 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-26 13:17 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-26 09:15 -0500
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 09:34 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 18:57 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 21:58 +0100
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 01:38 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 01:40 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:10 +0100
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 11:58 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 19:12 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:18 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:49 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 01:39 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:13 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 22:46 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 05:46 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:56 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 08:52 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 04:48 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 19:32 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 21:36 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 05:06 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:16 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:23 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:53 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:30 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 23:14 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:19 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-01 16:27 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:28 -0500
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:41 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 00:37 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:47 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:57 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 21:27 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:58 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:51 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:30 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:26 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:03 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:25 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:13 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:43 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:12 +0100
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:59 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:32 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:15 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:35 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:43 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:12 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 03:02 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 16:33 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 18:19 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:49 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-08 04:45 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:53 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 03:05 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:26 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:15 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:40 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:44 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:30 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:24 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:37 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                                                                                          Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 00:03 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:19 +0100
                                                                                      Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:36 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:41 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:29 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:40 -0500
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 04:50 +0000
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:27 -0500
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:40 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:05 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 13:39 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 01:22 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:28 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:58 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:53 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:29 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 20:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:23 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:09 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:39 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:15 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 04:41 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:50 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:07 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:52 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:06 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:38 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:49 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-13 04:56 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 02:20 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:38 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:42 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:41 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 11:32 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:01 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:40 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:15 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:09 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:17 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-14 05:18 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 13:08 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:51 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:15 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-09 11:39 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 20:22 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:52 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:07 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-12 08:13 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 01:55 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:30 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 07:53 -0800
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:45 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:38 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:14 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:13 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:28 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 20:49 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:33 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 07:54 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:44 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:42 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:19 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:22 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:39 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 09:03 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:08 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:46 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:13 +1000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 23:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:06 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 05:52 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:47 -0500
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-11-25 19:39 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-26 07:09 -0500
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 19:31 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 09:02 -0800
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 18:55 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-02 23:25 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-03 00:59 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 23:23 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:53 -0500
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-24 22:06 +0100
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 08:03 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:58 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-21 17:25 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 08:10 -0800
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-20 16:31 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-20 17:54 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 19:02 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:05 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-20 23:30 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 23:58 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-21 01:50 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-21 02:48 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-22 20:30 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 08:09 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 10:45 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 20:31 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-22 03:54 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 01:25 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-22 18:53 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:35 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-22 13:37 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:30 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:03 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-22 23:07 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 00:44 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 01:08 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 01:41 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 08:26 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:25 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:36 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 23:48 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 00:31 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:19 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 22:36 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:01 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:29 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 22:37 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-25 11:48 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:47 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 01:43 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:53 +0100
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 19:42 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 23:21 +0100
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 23:37 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:09 +0100
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 19:17 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 21:59 +0100
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 15:21 -0800
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 23:28 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 03:46 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-24 19:35 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 00:36 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 01:41 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 06:47 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 21:50 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 03:00 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:56 +0100
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 21:58 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 04:03 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:12 +0100
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 01:58 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:12 +0100
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 19:06 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 21:26 +0100
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-28 19:59 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 21:53 +0100
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 23:12 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 05:54 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:22 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 08:38 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 03:18 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:18 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 01:18 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 11:04 +0100
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 18:22 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 21:52 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 04:24 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:22 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:42 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:25 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:28 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:02 +0100
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:44 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 03:21 -0500
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 10:29 +0100
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:24 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-29 18:23 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:01 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:51 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:52 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-29 22:43 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:24 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:53 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:52 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:21 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:53 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:31 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 07:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:05 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:19 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:57 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:04 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:54 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:53 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:12 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:18 +0000
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 18:47 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 21:56 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 01:15 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:18 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 18:47 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:11 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 13:19 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 02:21 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:04 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:24 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 01:37 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:09 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:59 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 00:35 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:22 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 21:19 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 09:56 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:46 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:24 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:25 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:51 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:27 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:54 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:27 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:20 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:40 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:23 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:44 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:06 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-12-08 09:29 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:50 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:18 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:41 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:48 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:34 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:39 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 04:52 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:55 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:07 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:06 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:27 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:37 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:34 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:16 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:50 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:24 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:18 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:42 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:10 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:25 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:10 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:05 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 17:44 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 01:18 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:44 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:42 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:38 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 20:57 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:15 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 02:17 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:16 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:23 +1000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 10:25 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:17 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:01 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:04 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 20:40 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:14 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:06 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:28 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:38 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 03:54 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:39 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:00 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:18 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:53 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:32 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:07 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:25 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:20 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:57 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:30 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:13 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:01 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 11:58 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 18:49 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:40 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 02:59 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:08 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:45 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 18:53 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:21 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:55 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:24 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:33 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:57 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:27 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:21 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:09 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:50 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:57 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 17:50 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:20 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:32 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:19 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:52 +0100
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 18:44 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 21:54 +0100
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 01:09 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:50 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:54 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:15 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:46 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:29 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:36 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:32 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-01 18:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:11 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:13 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:14 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:50 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 10:26 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 10:27 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:03 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:26 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:36 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-04 04:03 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:10 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:13 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:27 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:02 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:00 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:51 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:31 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 09:36 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 13:17 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:51 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:11 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:41 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:23 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:40 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:10 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 01:04 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:55 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 08:17 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:50 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:33 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:46 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:29 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:48 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:46 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:09 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:31 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:18 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:22 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:45 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:10 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:56 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:51 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:20 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:43 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:57 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:31 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:07 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 01:39 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:59 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:45 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:41 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:59 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:11 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:09 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:06 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:04 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:26 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 23:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 10:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:20 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:37 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:16 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:37 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:36 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 03:36 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:10 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:31 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 23:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-11 01:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 11:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:29 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:03 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:40 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 12:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-15 12:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 19:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 10:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 00:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 01:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:27 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of Translation Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-11 12:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-11 15:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of Translation Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-12 05:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 22:49 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:37 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 11:18 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:49 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:14 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:18 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:12 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 02:41 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:00 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:45 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:32 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:09 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:28 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 12:24 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:42 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 17:07 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:30 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:51 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 11:59 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:39 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:48 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:26 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:15 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:26 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:38 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:56 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:31 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:13 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:14 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:11 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:54 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:38 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 00:19 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 03:02 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:41 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:42 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:36 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:32 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:55 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 10:20 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:02 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:30 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:13 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:54 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:14 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:25 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 01:15 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:37 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:48 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:56 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-04 00:44 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:12 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-04 07:58 -0800
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:37 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:16 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-06 04:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 05:39 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:29 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:28 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:34 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:31 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:09 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:33 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:19 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 05:37 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:43 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 05:29 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:43 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:07 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:30 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:02 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:15 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:55 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:42 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:27 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:40 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 08:00 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:30 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:50 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2024-12-06 03:29 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 05:25 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:00 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:04 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:49 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:39 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 21:15 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:24 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 09:58 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:24 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-12-06 17:29 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:02 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:20 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:50 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:29 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:57 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:11 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 18:54 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:10 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:32 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:54 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:19 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 12:35 -0800
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 11:03 +0100
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 02:41 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:11 -0500
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 10:25 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:23 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 01:46 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:41 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 09:07 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 22:59 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 04:43 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-26 05:57 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 08:49 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-26 05:29 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 15:43 -0800
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:47 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:23 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:33 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 19:54 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 23:58 -0500
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 02:29 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 08:52 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:30 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:28 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:02 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-21 19:48 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 23:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 23:50 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 01:51 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:34 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:45 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 12:30 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-22 18:53 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-22 20:40 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:44 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 09:05 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:31 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:48 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:47 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 10:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:34 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:45 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 12:46 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 20:20 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 08:57 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:48 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-26 08:32 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:22 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:30 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:36 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-26 17:55 -0700
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 01:48 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 12:05 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 16:33 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 17:20 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 18:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 08:35 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:16 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-28 14:19 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 18:19 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 10:11 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:11 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 18:32 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:16 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 10:01 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 18:51 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 04:39 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-26 22:38 -0700
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 09:27 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:06 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 23:59 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 00:57 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:20 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:38 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:58 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:45 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:40 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-25 04:40 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 06:50 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-25 18:20 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 09:10 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 20:50 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 01:28 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:55 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:47 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 14:09 -0800
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 23:39 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-11-21 01:27 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 02:16 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-21 04:31 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 18:53 +0000

Page 3 of 43 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 … 43  Next page →


#61407

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
Date2024-11-27 09:34 +0000
Message-ID<vi6p2i$3u8li$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61378
On 11/26/24 14:15, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Rich wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> 
>> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> The fundamental characteristic of a good programmer is to be able to
>>> deliver an application that is useful. Everything else is secondary.
> 
> Nah, the application must also be maintainable.
> 

The need for maintainability is a consequence of people wanting to use a 
program. Even useful programs, may never need to be maintained.

Additionally, too much concentration on maintainability in development 
can delay a project and cause cancellation before delivery.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61380

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-26 18:57 +0000
Message-ID<lqmk0jF5lsrU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61376
On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 13:17:08 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

> Yep, exactly.  If they can be given instructions that match their "lego
> brick set" they can snap something together.  Ask them to do anything
> that requires creativity or research and understanding, and you get back
> a turd that has had hours of polishing applied.

The holy grail for management is a design methodology that gets adequate 
results from a workforce of varying aptitudes. Particularly for larger 
corporations you'll get a normal distribution, a few very good, a few 
completely useless, and a lot of mediocrity. That's what you have to work 
with.

What I've seen over the years is a company will luck out, get a better 
than average distribution, and achieve success. Whatever they're doing is 
taken as an example of the right way and copied mechanically. Top down 
structured programming, agile, devops, and so forth have their day. 

TI lucked out in the '70s and used something they called 'matrix 
management' that became the new Wunderkind. The '80s brought 'In Search of 
Excellence'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence

Good money was made from book sales and training sessions from independent 
snake oil salesmen preaching the gospel. The company I worked for had one 
of the sessions. Not too many of the 'excellent' corporations are around 
today.

About 10 years ago the company I now work for had a 'pair programming' 
session. That was hilarious. The 'experts' were only familiar with Apple 
machines and other than the one they brought there wasn't an Apple in the 
building. Having been through required attendance things before my team 
carefully stayed to the back of the room where we could slink away and get 
back to business. 

I'm sure the next methodology will wrap itself around AI, spin off 
training companies, and mostly fail to deliver on the promises.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61383

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-11-26 21:58 +0100
Message-ID<7bbb95df-167e-6e29-642e-884cd1d92c5b@example.net>
In reply to#61380

On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 13:17:08 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
>
>> Yep, exactly.  If they can be given instructions that match their "lego
>> brick set" they can snap something together.  Ask them to do anything
>> that requires creativity or research and understanding, and you get back
>> a turd that has had hours of polishing applied.
>
> The holy grail for management is a design methodology that gets adequate
> results from a workforce of varying aptitudes. Particularly for larger
> corporations you'll get a normal distribution, a few very good, a few
> completely useless, and a lot of mediocrity. That's what you have to work
> with.
>
> What I've seen over the years is a company will luck out, get a better
> than average distribution, and achieve success. Whatever they're doing is
> taken as an example of the right way and copied mechanically. Top down
> structured programming, agile, devops, and so forth have their day.
>
> TI lucked out in the '70s and used something they called 'matrix
> management' that became the new Wunderkind. The '80s brought 'In Search of
> Excellence'.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence
>
> Good money was made from book sales and training sessions from independent
> snake oil salesmen preaching the gospel. The company I worked for had one
> of the sessions. Not too many of the 'excellent' corporations are around
> today.
>
> About 10 years ago the company I now work for had a 'pair programming'
> session. That was hilarious. The 'experts' were only familiar with Apple
> machines and other than the one they brought there wasn't an Apple in the
> building. Having been through required attendance things before my team
> carefully stayed to the back of the room where we could slink away and get
> back to business.
>
> I'm sure the next methodology will wrap itself around AI, spin off
> training companies, and mostly fail to deliver on the promises.
>
>

Ahh... and today you have agile snakeoil salesmen! I heard a story from 
the girlfriend of one of my consultants. Her company, a computer game 
company, hired an "agile coach" who was workshopping away like a madman.

One programmer said... "but this agile thing, it seems to me like it will 
become less efficient and more work, that's bad", the snakeoil salesman 
responded "I hear you and appreciate your concern, but if agile makes 
things worse, you're not doing it right, and that's why we are here"! ;)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61391

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2024-11-27 01:38 +0000
Message-ID<vi5t77$3medq$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61383
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 13:17:08 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, exactly.  If they can be given instructions that match their "lego
>>> brick set" they can snap something together.  Ask them to do anything
>>> that requires creativity or research and understanding, and you get back
>>> a turd that has had hours of polishing applied.
>>
>> The holy grail for management is a design methodology that gets adequate
>> results from a workforce of varying aptitudes. Particularly for larger
>> corporations you'll get a normal distribution, a few very good, a few
>> completely useless, and a lot of mediocrity. That's what you have to work
>> with.
>>
>> What I've seen over the years is a company will luck out, get a better
>> than average distribution, and achieve success. Whatever they're doing is
>> taken as an example of the right way and copied mechanically. Top down
>> structured programming, agile, devops, and so forth have their day.
>>
>> TI lucked out in the '70s and used something they called 'matrix
>> management' that became the new Wunderkind. The '80s brought 'In Search of
>> Excellence'.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence
>>
>> Good money was made from book sales and training sessions from independent
>> snake oil salesmen preaching the gospel. The company I worked for had one
>> of the sessions. Not too many of the 'excellent' corporations are around
>> today.
>>
>> About 10 years ago the company I now work for had a 'pair programming'
>> session. That was hilarious. The 'experts' were only familiar with Apple
>> machines and other than the one they brought there wasn't an Apple in the
>> building. Having been through required attendance things before my team
>> carefully stayed to the back of the room where we could slink away and get
>> back to business.
>>
>> I'm sure the next methodology will wrap itself around AI, spin off
>> training companies, and mostly fail to deliver on the promises.
>>
>>
> 
> Ahh... and today you have agile snakeoil salesmen! I heard a story from 
> the girlfriend of one of my consultants. Her company, a computer game 
> company, hired an "agile coach" who was workshopping away like a madman.
> 
> One programmer said... "but this agile thing, it seems to me like it will 
> become less efficient and more work, that's bad", the snakeoil salesman 
> responded "I hear you and appreciate your concern, but if agile makes 
> things worse, you're not doing it right, and that's why we are here"! ;)

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary 
depends on his not understanding it.” -- Upton Sinclair

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21810-it-is-difficult-to-get-a-man-to-understand-something

Agile, at least to the extent I've seen it being actually practiced so 
far, is of little benefit to the actual programmers, and adds burden 
(more daily meetings for the 'scrum' and sprint periodic meetings for 
the finale, retro, planning, etc.  meetings).

The one thing it does provide is give management more frequent feedback 
that "something's happening" so they can feel cozy that their budget 
funds have been used sensibly (i.e., CYA for managers).

But given that most 'enterprise' execution of 'agile' tends to, in the 
limit, approach an "agile waterfall" type of arrangement, the 
'wonderful promise' of agile of quick turnaround for bug fixes and more 
speedy accumulation of incrememtal improvements that deploy every 
sprint tends to get lost in the surrounding bureaucracy tarpit that 
holds everything else back.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61392

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-27 01:40 +0000
Message-ID<lqnbklF92ekU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61383
On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 21:58:45 +0100, D wrote:

> Ahh... and today you have agile snakeoil salesmen! I heard a story from
> the girlfriend of one of my consultants. Her company, a computer game
> company, hired an "agile coach" who was workshopping away like a madman.

Right...  I wonder if they even believe in the snake oil.We had a police 
chief who was a pretty nice guy but had a weakness for traveling medicine 
shows that would teach the officers about gang violence and so forth. Even 
the low lifes in town knew the 'gangs' were bored 12 year olds with spray 
cans that would last 4 seconds in Compton but he lapped it up. 

Then the Hells Angels came for vacation and he went off the deep end. The 
Angels were better behaved than when the BMW riders came to town but he 
imported cops from another state to deal with the potential bloody 
violence. The violence turned out to be the out of state cops arresting 
college kids who were protesting the over the top treatment of the bikers. 

City council went ballistic when they got the bill and it turned out it's 
against state law to import cops, something that goes back to the copper 
mines and Pinkertons, so the chief was fired.

I'm sure the snake oil salesmen took the show to some other town. The 
agile people probably use the same model.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61404

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-11-27 10:10 +0100
Message-ID<60d86bc0-f359-6883-20bd-166325a9e19a@example.net>
In reply to#61392

On Wed, 27 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 21:58:45 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Ahh... and today you have agile snakeoil salesmen! I heard a story from
>> the girlfriend of one of my consultants. Her company, a computer game
>> company, hired an "agile coach" who was workshopping away like a madman.
>
> Right...  I wonder if they even believe in the snake oil.We had a police
> chief who was a pretty nice guy but had a weakness for traveling medicine
> shows that would teach the officers about gang violence and so forth. Even
> the low lifes in town knew the 'gangs' were bored 12 year olds with spray
> cans that would last 4 seconds in Compton but he lapped it up.
>
> Then the Hells Angels came for vacation and he went off the deep end. The
> Angels were better behaved than when the BMW riders came to town but he
> imported cops from another state to deal with the potential bloody
> violence. The violence turned out to be the out of state cops arresting
> college kids who were protesting the over the top treatment of the bikers.
>
> City council went ballistic when they got the bill and it turned out it's
> against state law to import cops, something that goes back to the copper
> mines and Pinkertons, so the chief was fired.
>
> I'm sure the snake oil salesmen took the show to some other town. The
> agile people probably use the same model.
>

Next up... AI snakeoil salesmen! I saw in the swedish mainstream news, 
that ex BP chairman Carl-Henrik Svanbergs has been the government 
AI-commissioner.

He is now saying that only the government can make sweden a leading 
AI-nation. Therefore the government must create a program educating the 
population at large in Chat GPT, and it must "kickstart innovation".

I find this hilarious since the Northvolt battery factory is filing for 
chapter 11 and the governments retirement funds invested some hundreds of 
millions of dollars in this green bubble. Now they will probably invite 
Microsoft to become swedens "AI" partner, teaching the population about 
Chat GPT, and probably a government requirement in all tenders for end 
user software must be that it has Chat GPT.

Nothing like the government when it comes to inviting the latest snakeoil 
salesmen! =)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61408

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-11-27 11:58 +0000
Message-ID<vi71hb$3vogk$10@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61380
On 26/11/2024 18:57, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 13:17:08 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
> 
>> Yep, exactly.  If they can be given instructions that match their "lego
>> brick set" they can snap something together.  Ask them to do anything
>> that requires creativity or research and understanding, and you get back
>> a turd that has had hours of polishing applied.
> 
> The holy grail for management is a design methodology that gets adequate
> results from a workforce of varying aptitudes. Particularly for larger
> corporations you'll get a normal distribution, a few very good, a few
> completely useless, and a lot of mediocrity. That's what you have to work
> with.
> 

I've encountered that in my time in mil spec aerospace.
A very few people analysed the project and broke it down in to circuit 
board specs.

(Even down to a board the sized of a paperback with gold plated edge 
connector containing 6 resistors two capacitors and an 8 pin IC)

Then a selection of random monkeys who could solder fucked around with 
random components *until it met the specification*.

And the whole thing was a closed feedback loop. You went round and round 
until the whole bloody thing either met the spec, or ran out of 
government budget,

> What I've seen over the years is a company will luck out, get a better
> than average distribution, and achieve success. Whatever they're doing is
> taken as an example of the right way and copied mechanically. Top down
> structured programming, agile, devops, and so forth have their day.
> 

Indeed. At top management level, one does not care how they did it, only 
that they did.


> TI lucked out in the '70s and used something they called 'matrix
> management' that became the new Wunderkind. The '80s brought 'In Search of
> Excellence'.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence
> 
> Good money was made from book sales and training sessions from independent
> snake oil salesmen preaching the gospel. The company I worked for had one
> of the sessions. Not too many of the 'excellent' corporations are around
> today.
> 
I was surprised to discover that what I did naturally - coming in in the 
morning and looking around to see who looked miserable and asking them 
what was wrong, and then trying to sort it out, was actually known as 
'management by walking about'


> About 10 years ago the company I now work for had a 'pair programming'
> session. That was hilarious. The 'experts' were only familiar with Apple
> machines and other than the one they brought there wasn't an Apple in the
> building. Having been through required attendance things before my team
> carefully stayed to the back of the room where we could slink away and get
> back to business.
> 
> I'm sure the next methodology will wrap itself around AI, spin off
> training companies, and mostly fail to deliver on the promises.
> 
Nothing is worse than a CompSci graduate trying to introduce a whole new 
language based on its elegance, expect a MBA (Mostly bloody arseholes) 
trying to implement the latest fashionable management theory with no 
idea as to why it is fashionable, where it might fit, or what good it 
might do if any.



-- 
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61419

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-27 19:12 +0000
Message-ID<lqp98rFin9jU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61408
On Wed, 27 Nov 2024 11:58:35 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I've encountered that in my time in mil spec aerospace.
> A very few people analysed the project and broke it down in to circuit
> board specs.

I worked on one DoD project in my career. I got bored and wandered off 
after 6 months of wrangling about the spec. About a year later I talked to 
one of the programmers who had stayed and asked if they'd written any code 
yet. "Nope."

So much blood, sweat, tears, and ego involvement is involved in specs like 
that it will be implemented even if it becomes apparent it isn't going to 
work. Fiascos like the F-35 don't surprise me at all.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61444

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-11-28 09:18 +0000
Message-ID<vi9chq$fjo6$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61419
On 27/11/2024 19:12, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2024 11:58:35 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> I've encountered that in my time in mil spec aerospace.
>> A very few people analysed the project and broke it down in to circuit
>> board specs.
> 
> I worked on one DoD project in my career. I got bored and wandered off
> after 6 months of wrangling about the spec. About a year later I talked to
> one of the programmers who had stayed and asked if they'd written any code
> yet. "Nope."
> 
> So much blood, sweat, tears, and ego involvement is involved in specs like
> that it will be implemented even if it becomes apparent it isn't going to
> work. Fiascos like the F-35 don't surprise me at all.

The amazing thing was that random monkeys did in the end through a 
process of iteration 'hit upon the right thing, after exhausting every 
other alternative'



-- 
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and 
wrong.

H.L.Mencken

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#61353

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-11-25 21:49 +0000
Message-ID<vi2rd9$318ah$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61343
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 12:04:11 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> The problem with Python is it seems to be the new BASIC.

No, it is not. It is a far superior basis on which to build on than BASIC 
ever was.

> An entry point for PWCP People Who Cant Program.

There is a “new BASIC” that fits that description: it’s PHP.

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#61401

From"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Date2024-11-27 01:39 -0500
Message-ID<8xidnV6HZos6I9v6nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#61353
On 11/25/24 4:49 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 12:04:11 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> The problem with Python is it seems to be the new BASIC.
> 
> No, it is not. It is a far superior basis on which to build on than BASIC
> ever was.
> 
>> An entry point for PWCP People Who Cant Program.
> 
> There is a “new BASIC” that fits that description: it’s PHP.


   Ummmmmm ... CAN use it for general programming ... but
   it's not super-pleasant  :-)

   Good old BASIC worked well, was fairly easy to read and
   understand and once you could structure stuff nicely ...
   really nothing *wrong* with it other than being old
   and unfashionable.

   Try : https://www.freebasic.net/

   Python is "better" - but not THAT much better. It has
   become totally ubiquitous so there's really no avoiding
   the lang.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61424

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-11-27 22:13 +0000
Message-ID<vi85j6$6ct6$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61401
On Wed, 27 Nov 2024 01:39:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 11/25/24 4:49 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> There is a “new BASIC” that fits that description: it’s PHP.
> 
> Ummmmmm ... CAN use it for general programming ... but it's not
> super-pleasant  :-)

It attracts the kind of people who might have used BASIC before.

> Python is "better" - but not THAT much better.

It’s a whole lot better. Nearly all of the language features are very 
carefully thought out. The result is that the core remains compact, yet is 
versatile, which is why you get so many library modules built on top of it 
-- because the language makes such modules very powerful.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61429

From"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Date2024-11-27 22:46 -0500
Message-ID<eOqcnUPJTdkXetr6nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#61424
On 11/27/24 5:13 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2024 01:39:34 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>> On 11/25/24 4:49 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> There is a “new BASIC” that fits that description: it’s PHP.
>>
>> Ummmmmm ... CAN use it for general programming ... but it's not
>> super-pleasant  :-)
> 
> It attracts the kind of people who might have used BASIC before.

   I never really saw it as so "BASIC-like" ...

   To me the look&feel is kinda like a mix of tiny 'C',
   Bash and a bit of Java.

   In any case, best suited for web pages. That is
   its natural environment. I've writ some web
   stuff with kinda a lot of PHP in them. The most
   fun spawned a TEMPORARY mirror of the site in
   a TEMPORARY subdir that'd expire after 15 minutes
   of non-use. That way there was no permanent link
   hacks could keep attacking. The mother site was
   kept entirely off the webroot.

   Anyway, WordPress and Joomla and most anything
   else for the web is REALLY stupid and useless
   without PHP.

>> Python is "better" - but not THAT much better.
> 
> It’s a whole lot better. Nearly all of the language features are very
> carefully thought out. The result is that the core remains compact, yet is
> versatile, which is why you get so many library modules built on top of it
> -- because the language makes such modules very powerful.


   IMHO, 'C' and Pascal are The Best. Python is 'fair', and
   has become a little more fair over time.

   Other opinions will vary.

   These days you'll get the Rust crusaders :-)

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#61432

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-28 05:46 +0000
Message-ID<lqqeduFo61aU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61429
On Wed, 27 Nov 2024 22:46:17 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

>    In any case, best suited for web pages. That is its natural
>    environment. I've writ some web stuff with kinda a lot of PHP in
>    them. The most fun spawned a TEMPORARY mirror of the site in a
>    TEMPORARY subdir that'd expire after 15 minutes of non-use. That way
>    there was no permanent link hacks could keep attacking. The mother
>    site was kept entirely off the webroot.

https://www.nusphere.com/php/php_history.htm


Like Eich, Lerdorf probably didn't expect his Personal Home Page to 
spread. 

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#61437

From"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Date2024-11-28 02:56 -0500
Message-ID<vRWdna-Hi8nZv9X6nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#61432
On 11/28/24 12:46 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2024 22:46:17 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>>     In any case, best suited for web pages. That is its natural
>>     environment. I've writ some web stuff with kinda a lot of PHP in
>>     them. The most fun spawned a TEMPORARY mirror of the site in a
>>     TEMPORARY subdir that'd expire after 15 minutes of non-use. That way
>>     there was no permanent link hacks could keep attacking. The mother
>>     site was kept entirely off the webroot.
> 
> https://www.nusphere.com/php/php_history.htm
> 
> 
> Like Eich, Lerdorf probably didn't expect his Personal Home Page to
> spread.


   Well, there IS a certain v0.5 feel about it  :-)

   But it still Gets It Done.

   I like PHP because it makes the gigabuck SERVER do
   most of the work, unlike JS.

   Once wrote a short JS with lots of deep math/trig and
   string stuff in it - just a few lines - to punish
   people who didn't know the password. All the cooling
   fans would rev up to full almost instantly  :-)

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#61441

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-28 08:52 +0000
Message-ID<lqqpadFq3i0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61437
On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 02:56:51 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:


>    Well, there IS a certain v0.5 feel about it
> 
>    But it still Gets It Done.
> 
>    I like PHP because it makes the gigabuck SERVER do most of the work,
>    unlike JS.
> 
>    Once wrote a short JS with lots of deep math/trig and string stuff in
>    it - just a few lines - to punish people who didn't know the
>    password. All the cooling fans would rev up to full almost instantly
>

I used CGI and FastCGI mostly, and then Node.js eventually. The server 
side js did a little work but with the Esri JavaScript API the client side 
did most of the heavy lifting. The backend served up GeoJSON but other 
processes created it. The most work was querying the database for 
historical information in a couple of applications like crime analysis.

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#61461

From"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Date2024-11-29 04:48 -0500
Message-ID<lAKdne148slnENT6nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#61441
On 11/28/24 3:52 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 02:56:51 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
> 
>>     Well, there IS a certain v0.5 feel about it
>>
>>     But it still Gets It Done.
>>
>>     I like PHP because it makes the gigabuck SERVER do most of the work,
>>     unlike JS.
>>
>>     Once wrote a short JS with lots of deep math/trig and string stuff in
>>     it - just a few lines - to punish people who didn't know the
>>     password. All the cooling fans would rev up to full almost instantly
>>
> 
> I used CGI and FastCGI mostly, and then Node.js eventually. The server
> side js did a little work but with the Esri JavaScript API the client side
> did most of the heavy lifting. The backend served up GeoJSON but other
> processes created it. The most work was querying the database for
> historical information in a couple of applications like crime analysis.

   My last org did use ESRI - there has to be a muta-acronym
   for "rip off LOTS of money because we CAN".

   But, I never scripted it.

   Took one or two classes - but the product was changing
   so fast they were just useless.

   Oddly, my previous boss and I wanted to WRITE a GIS
   way back in the mid 80s ... but the subject was too
   deep and we never really got to it.

   Anyway, try to make the gigabuck server farms do
   most of the work  :-)

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#61475

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-29 19:32 +0000
Message-ID<lquj5nFecgoU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61461
On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 04:48:40 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> My last org did use ESRI - there has to be a muta-acronym
>    for "rip off LOTS of money because we CAN".

They do that very well. There are alternatives like QGIS and the 
associated GDAL tools, leaflet for JavasScript pages, and MapServer but 
like OBM and Windows nobody ever got fired for using Esri. 

>    Took one or two classes - but the product was changing so fast they
>    were just useless.

The transition from 8.x to 9.x was painful. I went to a seminar that was 
mostly Forest Service people and they were not happy when they were told 
it wasn't an easy migration. 9.x to 10.x made some changes in the way an 
application initialized the license but it was mostly incremental 
improvements. 10.x to 11.x was a breaking change. 10.x was 32-bit and they 
went completely to 64-bit. 

It wasn't exactly a surprise. Jack Dangermond always had a vision of 
moving everything to the cloud (ArcGIS Online) and wasn't shy about 
outlining the future in his presentations. The users got dragged along 
kicking and screaming.

>    Oddly, my previous boss and I wanted to WRITE a GIS way back in the
>    mid 80s ... but the subject was too deep and we never really got to
>    it.

The company I work for did develop a GIS system in the '90s. The database 
used was dbVista which had advantages over the hybrid DBase shapefiles 
Esri used. However the dispatch software was the product, not the 
underlying GIS. Around 2005 more sites were using Esri and we offered it 
as an option and eventually it dominated.

Typically a dispatch center does not have their own geodata. A county or 
municipality uses Esri for their own purposes and we grab centerline and 
landmark data from them. That has the advantage of picking up new data 
long before it trickles down to Google, TIGER/Line, HERE or any of the 
other sources. 

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#61456

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-11-28 21:36 +0000
Message-ID<vianoa$na9e$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61437
On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 02:56:51 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> But [PHP] still Gets It Done.

Unfortunately, the fact that it is architected around the HTTP request/
response model limits its flexibility somewhat. For example, it makes it 
awkward to handle WebSocket connections.

For contrast, Python has an event-driven specification called ASGI, which 
deals with both regular HTTP connections and WebSockets in a single 
framework. And it also handles long-running background processes as well 
(another thing PHP tends to have trouble with).

> I like PHP because it makes the gigabuck SERVER do
> most of the work, unlike JS.

Heard of Node JS?

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#61463

From"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Date2024-11-29 05:06 -0500
Message-ID<5cKdndZFvPPeD9T6nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#61456
On 11/28/24 4:36 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 02:56:51 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>> But [PHP] still Gets It Done.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fact that it is architected around the HTTP request/
> response model limits its flexibility somewhat. For example, it makes it
> awkward to handle WebSocket connections.

   It's awkward for a lot of things.

   But remember, it grew up right at the same time
   the web did ... "sophistication" really wasn't
   the priority then.

   PHP *can* be used for most anything web-related,
   and even as a stand-alone, but it's not gonna
   be super-easy for all that. It is what it is.

> For contrast, Python has an event-driven specification called ASGI, which
> deals with both regular HTTP connections and WebSockets in a single
> framework. And it also handles long-running background processes as well
> (another thing PHP tends to have trouble with).

   Python grew up a bit later.

   And it isn't REALLY meant for interactive web apps.

   Kinda surprised there's no real "Web-PY" scripting app
   (kinda aside from Flask) to compete head to head with
   PHP for server-side.

>> I like PHP because it makes the gigabuck SERVER do
>> most of the work, unlike JS.
> 
> Heard of Node JS?

   Heard, but never USED. I can DO web pages, but it's
   not my favorite kind of programming. Had to do pages
   for a "digital signage" app - pick yer pix/text/vids
   and set order/duration/transitions/etc. Got it to
   WORK (alas some PHP had to make files to xfer info
   to other PHPs) but NOT really pleasant. Apparently
   there's a canned DS Linux 'distro' now, but I've
   never tried it. Retired now, never will.

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