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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 205 — 16 participants |
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Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:48 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:35 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 17:25 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:24 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:04 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:57 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:43 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 13:05 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:27 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-03 18:58 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:06 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:02 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:31 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:18 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vp2ae$3igml$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87431 |
On 03/06/2026 12:05, Carlos E.R. wrote: > They steal the live catenary from the railway... Sometimes someone dies. > The distribution wires, I have not heard of it. Too high? > > We would need harsher laws to protect the railways. Or higher voltages -- "The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll look exactly the same afterwards." Billy Connolly
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vp3ai$3io0e$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87434 |
On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 03/06/2026 12:05, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> They steal the live catenary from the railway... Sometimes someone >> dies. The distribution wires, I have not heard of it. Too high? >> >> We would need harsher laws to protect the railways. > > Or higher voltages Probably less likely, IIRC 25kV was the sweet point for AC electrification? -- Nuno Silva
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vpb1a$3m0u8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87435 |
On 03/06/2026 12:31, Nuno Silva wrote: > On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> On 03/06/2026 12:05, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> They steal the live catenary from the railway... Sometimes someone >>> dies. The distribution wires, I have not heard of it. Too high? >>> >>> We would need harsher laws to protect the railways. >> >> Or higher voltages > > Probably less likely, IIRC 25kV was the sweet point for AC > electrification? > Nobody takes any notice of laws any more though. You just tell them you are a victim of climate change and you get a free house and living allowance automatically, -- The higher up the mountainside The greener grows the grass. The higher up the monkey climbs The more he shows his arse. Traditional
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 19:28 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <vq46fmx7a6.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87435 |
On 2026-06-03 13:31, Nuno Silva wrote: > On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> On 03/06/2026 12:05, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> They steal the live catenary from the railway... Sometimes someone >>> dies. The distribution wires, I have not heard of it. Too high? >>> >>> We would need harsher laws to protect the railways. >> >> Or higher voltages > > Probably less likely, IIRC 25kV was the sweet point for AC > electrification? He is on a mood. Don't listen :-) -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 20:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vpu7d$3tl9m$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87448 |
(Happy to move to alt.unix.geeks, I'm setting Followup-To, &c.) On 2026-06-03, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-06-03 13:31, Nuno Silva wrote: >> On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> On 03/06/2026 12:05, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> They steal the live catenary from the railway... Sometimes someone >>>> dies. The distribution wires, I have not heard of it. Too high? >>>> >>>> We would need harsher laws to protect the railways. >>> >>> Or higher voltages >> >> Probably less likely, IIRC 25kV was the sweet point for AC >> electrification? > > He is on a mood. Don't listen :-) I indeed recall reading that 25kV was a local maximum for that kind of power delivery, that being why it's basically the de facto voltage for railway overhead wires carrying AC (IIRC the frequency is usually derived from that of the power grid?). I don't recall if there was anything more absolute about it, perhaps the bareness of the cable plays a in that too? No legislative act would do much, given this is more about the laws of physics? -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <HYZTR.138994$Grwb.7208@fx13.iad> |
| In reply to | #87435 |
On 2026-06-03, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> On 03/06/2026 12:05, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> >>> They steal the live catenary from the railway... Sometimes someone >>> dies. The distribution wires, I have not heard of it. Too high? >>> >>> We would need harsher laws to protect the railways. >> >> Or higher voltages > > Probably less likely, IIRC 25kV was the sweet point for AC > electrification? To me, the real scum are the ones who steal ground wires, leaving everything a hazard for innocent bystanders. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 22:27 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <baf6fmxvvh.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87449 |
On 2026-06-03 20:00, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-06-03, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 2026-06-03, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> On 03/06/2026 12:05, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> >>>> They steal the live catenary from the railway... Sometimes someone >>>> dies. The distribution wires, I have not heard of it. Too high? >>>> >>>> We would need harsher laws to protect the railways. >>> >>> Or higher voltages >> >> Probably less likely, IIRC 25kV was the sweet point for AC >> electrification? > > To me, the real scum are the ones who steal ground wires, > leaving everything a hazard for innocent bystanders. > All are scum. The damage they cause is tremendous. A death is a death, though. Easier to prosecute, I guess. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vp28q$3igml$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87424 |
On 03/06/2026 11:43, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2026-06-03, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> There is something else. It would be a tree network of DC cables going
>> out from a central node. Two thick cables going out, perhaps 48V DC,
>> then branching at each home (and fuses). At least part of the network
>> would be thick cables. Which means, some people would try to steal
>> them.
>
> Is it true some people even try to steal the kind of bare wiring that is
> used carry 25 kV 50 Hz?
>
Oh yes, I had an inspection of 'my' substation - 3 phase 11KV in, 240v
100A out to my property. I am the only person connected.
Thieves had attempted to force the doors in order to steal the whole
transformer.
Any crowbar thrown across the lines will cause the 11kV circuits to trip
and stay tripped.
--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."
- Stephen Vizinczey
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 14:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vpesp$3n936$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87424 |
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-03, Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> There is something else. It would be a tree network of DC cables going >> out from a central node. Two thick cables going out, perhaps 48V DC, >> then branching at each home (and fuses). At least part of the network >> would be thick cables. Which means, some people would try to steal >> them. > > Is it true some people even try to steal the kind of bare wiring that is > used carry 25 kV 50 Hz? Yes, there have been stories (I can't say of the are true or simply urban legend) of thieves trying to steal high voltage cabling for the scrap metal value, only to discover the cable is powered when they cut into it with their cutter. They likely didn't live long enough to discover that almost all HV wiring is aluminum, not copper, and so the net scrap value is considerably smaller than their initial expectation.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 18:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n8bbq5F2qi8U4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87445 |
On Wed, 3 Jun 2026 14:48:57 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > They likely didn't live long enough to discover that almost all HV > wiring is aluminum, not copper, and so the net scrap value is > considerably smaller than their initial expectation. One company I worked for was located next to a dump that was the target of gleaners. We looked out one day to see a couple of guys trying to disassemble a three phase 25 hp motor we has discarded. Nobody had the heart to tell them there was more copper in the pennies in their pockets.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 14:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vpeoj$3n936$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87415 |
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-01 22:27, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-06-01 20:30, Rich wrote: >>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>>>>    I've EXPERIENCED tower networks Going DOWN ... they have maybe >>>>>>    three days worth of power backup. Then it's 1826 again. >>>>>> >>>>>>    But copper KEEPS WORKING. Simple and sure. >>>>> >>>>> Check that bet one winter when the ice storms pull down the mains >>>>> cables powering your local copper exchange, and the snow is deep enough >>>>> that the fuel trucks can't get to the exchange before its backup >>>>> generators consume the diesel in their tanks. >>>>> >>>>> The copper *will* also stop working then as well. >>>>> >>>>> It only appears to keep working because there were several layers of >>>>> redundancy backed in by the regulations. >>>>> >>>>> But those regulations are being sidelined now. Without those >>>>> regulations keeping the companies honest, the old POTS that "just kept >>>>> working" almost all the time will become just as flakey and offline at >>>>> the slightest provocation as the other options. >>>>> >>>>> A *lot* of expense was spent to make the old copper POTS just "keep >>>>> working", not a bit of it "just working" was because it was "copper". >>>>> It was all because the companies operating it were kept whipped into >>>>> shape by the regulators and forced to pay for the upkeep needed. >>>>> >>>>> If you applied the identical regulations to fiber, it too would (and >>>>> could) be just as much a "it KEEPS WORKING" system as the old copper >>>>> POTS system was. All the fiber would need to be all but identical is >>>>> for a pair of power conductors (yes copper wires, since glass happens >>>>> to be an electrical insulator) to be run along with each bundle, and >>>>> for the demarc terminals in each home (plus one of the phone handsets) >>>>> to be powered from the fiber bundle power conductors. >>>> >>>> That would not happen. >>> >>> Agreed. I highly doubt such would ever occur to the regulators as >>> well. My point is, it would be /possible/ for the fiber bundle to >>> carry a single copper pair used only to provide the small power >>> necessary to power the end point just like old style analog POTS phones >>> were powered by the line from the switch. >> >> Thing is, they would have to power the ONT or the router, and do so for >> all customers the full time, even if they are not using their phones >> actively at the moment. That is no small power, it can be 2..3 amps at >> 12 volts per client (based on the ratings of the power wall wart of my >> router. >> >> That is not a small power. Orders of magnitude over what POTS needs: all >> houses not actively using the phone draw no power at all. > > There is something else. It would be a tree network of DC cables going > out from a central node. Two thick cables going out, perhaps 48V DC, > then branching at each home (and fuses). At least part of the network > would be thick cables. Which means, some people would try to steal them. Yes. And yes, I'm ignoring the "theif" problem (but we already have a "theif" problem now with the tiny 20ga copper pairs in traditional POTS lines. Thieves will rip down actual working POTS lines to get the copper for scrap costs if given the opportunity to do so. Making for thicker wires just increases the net attractiveness. Which makes one more reason why this is as much a "thought experiment" as it is anything that a regulator is likely to ever impose.
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| From | InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10vl2v5$2icdr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87341 |
On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >> batteries. > > Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One > gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the > ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box > that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the > "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different > types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, > they privided this, now they provide that". The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available anymore. Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected to bear.
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn111u5jp.ust.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #87349 |
On 2026-06-01, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: > On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >>> batteries. >> >> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One >> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the >> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box >> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the >> "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different >> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, >> they privided this, now they provide that". > > The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I > had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available > anymore. Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power > with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, > and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected to bear. Verizon's FIOS/fiber successors (at least on the Verizon -> Frontier -> Ziply path) no longer provide for any battery backup. The new ziply ONTs have nothing for any duration longer than maybe a second (likely at most a fraction of a second). A customer can add a UPS to power the ONT, but it's anyone's guess whether Ziply now maintains power to even any neighborhood concentration equipment or "central office" facilities. -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <3eab0acd126d1b887323@dev.null> |
| In reply to | #87379 |
>On 2 Jun 2026 17:44:25 GMT, Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> wrote: >On 2026-06-01, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >>>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >>>> batteries. >>> >>> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One >>> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the >>> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box >>> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the >>> "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different >>> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, >>> they privided this, now they provide that". >> >> The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I >> had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available >> anymore. Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power >> with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, >> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected to bear. > >Verizon's FIOS/fiber successors (at least on the Verizon -> >Frontier -> Ziply path) no longer provide for any battery backup. >The new ziply ONTs have nothing for any duration longer than >maybe a second (likely at most a fraction of a second). A >customer can add a UPS to power the ONT, but it's anyone's guess >whether Ziply now maintains power to even any neighborhood >concentration equipment or "central office" facilities. One practical thing is to treat the ONT, router, and any switch you actually need as one small critical load and measure that load before buying the UPS. A lot of the little network boxes draw less than their wall warts imply, so a modest UPS can run them longer than expected if it is not also carrying a PC, monitor, printer, etc. I would also do a planned pull-the-plug test while nothing important depends on it. If the ONT and router stay up but the provider's upstream plant drops, then more battery on the customer side will not buy much. If it stays online, then the UPS runtime number is actually worth optimizing. -- TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> "I survived the great rm -rf / rehearsal and all I got was this .signature."
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| From | InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <10vng30$376sh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87380 |
On 6/2/2026 1:54 PM, TheLastSysop wrote: > One practical thing is to treat the ONT, router, and any switch you actually > need as one small critical load and measure that load before buying the UPS. A > lot of the little network boxes draw less than their wall warts imply, so a > modest UPS can run them longer than expected if it is not also carrying a PC, > monitor, printer, etc. One thing that's worth mentioning is that use of a convention AC UPS involves inherent losses from converting the DC power to AC, then back to DC. The Verizon backup units at least avoided this issue because the backup battery supplies DC power straight to the ONT. There are various ways to extend the runtime and maintain this property, of varying complexity. But a standard UPS meant for a PC is not a good UPS for something like a router or ONT which runs off 12 VDC, not 120 VAC. > I would also do a planned pull-the-plug test while nothing important depends on > it. If the ONT and router stay up but the provider's upstream plant drops, then > more battery on the customer side will not buy much. If it stays online, then > the UPS runtime number is actually worth optimizing. Yes, this is a good point. When I moved to where I am now, I was tinkering with backup options for various equipment. I discovered that even if I powered my cable modem during an outage, the Internet immediately went out, showing that the cable network required active equipment that had zero backup power in an outage. In contrast, my phone service over fiber continued working (only because I had my local lead acid battery backup for the ONT.) I have lived in other places where the cable didn't immediately go out during an outage either, so this kind of thing probably varies from place to place. I don't really fault Comcast for not keeping things going in an outage. I really couldn't care less whether anything except the phone keeps working in a power outage. I have UPS equipment for my PC, server rack, etc. but that's to shut everything down safely, not keep the network going for any meaningful length of time.
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| From | TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <a3a9e781b1087009b1ee@dev.null> |
| In reply to | #87389 |
>On Tue, 2 Jun 2026 16:57:02 -0400, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >On 6/2/2026 1:54 PM, TheLastSysop wrote: >> One practical thing is to treat the ONT, router, and any switch you actually >> need as one small critical load and measure that load before buying the UPS. >> A >> lot of the little network boxes draw less than their wall warts imply, so a >> modest UPS can run them longer than expected if it is not also carrying a PC, >> monitor, printer, etc. > >One thing that's worth mentioning is that use of a convention AC UPS >involves inherent losses from converting the DC power to AC, then back >to DC. The Verizon backup units at least avoided this issue because the >backup battery supplies DC power straight to the ONT. > >There are various ways to extend the runtime and maintain this property, >of varying complexity. But a standard UPS meant for a PC is not a good >UPS for something like a router or ONT which runs off 12 VDC, not 120 VAC. > >> I would also do a planned pull-the-plug test while nothing important depends >> on >> it. If the ONT and router stay up but the provider's upstream plant drops, >> then >> more battery on the customer side will not buy much. If it stays online, >> then >> the UPS runtime number is actually worth optimizing. > >Yes, this is a good point. When I moved to where I am now, I was >tinkering with backup options for various equipment. I discovered that >even if I powered my cable modem during an outage, the Internet >immediately went out, showing that the cable network required active >equipment that had zero backup power in an outage. > >In contrast, my phone service over fiber continued working (only because >I had my local lead acid battery backup for the ONT.) > >I have lived in other places where the cable didn't immediately go out >during an outage either, so this kind of thing probably varies from >place to place. > >I don't really fault Comcast for not keeping things going in an outage. >I really couldn't care less whether anything except the phone keeps >working in a power outage. I have UPS equipment for my PC, server rack, >etc. but that's to shut everything down safely, not keep the network >going for any meaningful length of time. Agreed. If the load is all small DC gear, a purpose-built DC UPS or a battery system with regulated 12 V / 9 V / 5 V outputs is often a better fit than dragging the power through an inverter and a pile of wall warts. The catches are worth checking before buying parts: the connector polarity, the actual voltage tolerance of the ONT/router, startup current, and whether the unit passes clean power while charging. Some cheap "12 V UPS" boxes are really just lithium packs with a boost converter and optimistic labels. A safe approach is to measure the real load, size the battery for the desired runtime with conversion losses included, add proper fusing, then do the same planned outage test. That answers both questions: whether the local gear survives and whether the provider side stays up long enough to matter. -- TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> "I survived the great rm -rf / rehearsal and all I got was this .signature."
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4g95fmxucn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87389 |
On 2026-06-02 22:57, InterLinked wrote: > On 6/2/2026 1:54 PM, TheLastSysop wrote: >> One practical thing is to treat the ONT, router, and any switch you >> actually >> need as one small critical load and measure that load before buying >> the UPS. A >> lot of the little network boxes draw less than their wall warts imply, >> so a >> modest UPS can run them longer than expected if it is not also >> carrying a PC, >> monitor, printer, etc. > > One thing that's worth mentioning is that use of a convention AC UPS > involves inherent losses from converting the DC power to AC, then back > to DC. The Verizon backup units at least avoided this issue because the > backup battery supplies DC power straight to the ONT. Yes. There are DC UPS out there, though. I posted some samples yesterday: <https://www.amazon.es/-/en/APC-Back-UPS-Connect-CP12036LI-Controladores/dp/B0CJ5D89Z9> <https://www.amazon.es/-/en/Internal-Battery-Lightweight-Protects-Overloads/dp/B07DPTF9VW> <https://www.amazon.es/-/en/Salicru-658BB000009-SPS-net2/dp/B0DHL4XRBW/> <https://www.amazon.es/-/en/Shanqiu-Router-Surveillance-Camera-Output/dp/B0FF9QS7LK/> > > There are various ways to extend the runtime and maintain this property, > of varying complexity. But a standard UPS meant for a PC is not a good > UPS for something like a router or ONT which runs off 12 VDC, not 120 VAC. Not the best thing, but it is what I have now. It powers several things, including my TV set, the wireless phone... > >> I would also do a planned pull-the-plug test while nothing important >> depends on >> it. If the ONT and router stay up but the provider's upstream plant >> drops, then >> more battery on the customer side will not buy much. If it stays >> online, then >> the UPS runtime number is actually worth optimizing. > > Yes, this is a good point. When I moved to where I am now, I was > tinkering with backup options for various equipment. I discovered that > even if I powered my cable modem during an outage, the Internet > immediately went out, showing that the cable network required active > equipment that had zero backup power in an outage. > When there was a energy zero here not yet a month ago, I forgot to verify that point. I think I did not have fibre. I was busy orderly powering down computers and forgot to test internet. Initially I did not know the whole of Spain went down. > In contrast, my phone service over fiber continued working (only because > I had my local lead acid battery backup for the ONT.) > > I have lived in other places where the cable didn't immediately go out > during an outage either, so this kind of thing probably varies from > place to place. > > I don't really fault Comcast for not keeping things going in an outage. > I really couldn't care less whether anything except the phone keeps > working in a power outage. I have UPS equipment for my PC, server rack, > etc. but that's to shut everything down safely, not keep the network > going for any meaningful length of time. Indeed. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10vo2kk$3b3aj$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87379 |
Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> wrote: > On 2026-06-01, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >>>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >>>> batteries. >>> >>> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One >>> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the >>> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box >>> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the >>> "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different >>> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, >>> they privided this, now they provide that". >> >> The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I >> had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available >> anymore. Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power >> with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, >> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected to bear. > > Verizon's FIOS/fiber successors (at least on the Verizon -> > Frontier -> Ziply path) no longer provide for any battery backup. > The new ziply ONTs have nothing for any duration longer than > maybe a second (likely at most a fraction of a second). A > customer can add a UPS to power the ONT, but it's anyone's guess > whether Ziply now maintains power to even any neighborhood > concentration equipment or "central office" facilities. Damn, so they've completly given up on even giving the impression that the replacement fiber might appear to be some level of equivalent to the old POTS network. And you do make a fair point. If Ziply's delivering "no backup by default" ONT's, it is very likely some MBA at Ziply's also had the bright idea to save some coin by not providing any backup power on the concentrators or central offices either. So even a customer who invested in a UPS to power the ONT may find there's no one listening at the other end of the long thin glass tube.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tp95fmxucn.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87398 |
On 2026-06-03 04:13, Rich wrote: > Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> wrote: >> On 2026-06-01, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote: >>> On 6/1/2026 2:30 PM, Rich wrote: >>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote: >>>>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup >>>>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA >>>>> batteries. >>>> >>>> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service. One >>>> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the >>>> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box >>>> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the >>>> "backup power" should mains be out. I'm not sure if the different >>>> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously, >>>> they privided this, now they provide that". >>> >>> The lead acid is the older variety and the D cell is the newer one. I >>> had to buy the older kind on eBay as they are not really available >>> anymore. Neither is sufficient, you can get 8-24 hours of standby power >>> with these kinds, but that's woefully inadequate in an extended outage, >>> and both are now a significant cost that consumers are now expected to bear. >> >> Verizon's FIOS/fiber successors (at least on the Verizon -> >> Frontier -> Ziply path) no longer provide for any battery backup. >> The new ziply ONTs have nothing for any duration longer than >> maybe a second (likely at most a fraction of a second). A >> customer can add a UPS to power the ONT, but it's anyone's guess >> whether Ziply now maintains power to even any neighborhood >> concentration equipment or "central office" facilities. > > Damn, so they've completly given up on even giving the impression that > the replacement fiber might appear to be some level of equivalent to > the old POTS network. > > And you do make a fair point. If Ziply's delivering "no backup by > default" ONT's, it is very likely some MBA at Ziply's also had the > bright idea to save some coin by not providing any backup power on the > concentrators or central offices either. So even a customer who > invested in a UPS to power the ONT may find there's no one listening at > the other end of the long thin glass tube. > During the energy zero in Spain, I found that I had mobile phone coverage the full time. Not many people did, but I live relatively near a big exchange with big batteries and probably a generator. Something scares me more than no internet during a power failure: being trapped in an elevator. Not many provide a safety to drop the elevator to the next floor and open the door. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10vp0rn$3igml$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87398 |
On 03/06/2026 03:13, Rich wrote: > And you do make a fair point. If Ziply's delivering "no backup by > default" ONT's, it is very likely some MBA at Ziply's also had the > bright idea to save some coin by not providing any backup power on the > concentrators or central offices either. So even a customer who > invested in a UPS to power the ONT may find there's no one listening at > the other end of the long thin glass tube. Have you any idea how remote these are? Typically 40-70km, and they don't have that much kit either. The whole last 30 miles is essentially passive...until you get to CPE. And the backhaul it relies upon after that is the same as copper based signals anyway. In short it should be *more* reliable in a power cut apart from the CPE. If you want redundancy buy your won bloody batteries -- "Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold." ― Confucius
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