Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread

Redundancy/Survival

Started byc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
First post2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Last post2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 370 — 17 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc


Contents

  Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
            Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:48 +0100
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:35 +0000
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 17:25 +0100
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 03:51 +0000
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:34 +0100
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 16:06 +0100
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 20:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:27 +0000
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:30 +0100
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:24 +0200
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:04 +0100
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:25 +0200
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:15 +0000
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:36 +0200
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 02:19 -0400
                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:34 +0200
                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:26 -0400
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-04 08:18 +0100
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:48 +0100
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:36 -0400
                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 17:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 14:56 -0400
                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 22:07 +0000
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 22:18 -0400
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 03:40 +0000
                                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:29 -0400
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 07:06 +0000
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 04:11 -0400
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 17:17 +0000
                                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:10 -0400
                                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:16 +0000
                                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:46 -0400
                                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 19:40 +0000
                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 00:13 +0000
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-05 03:12 +0000
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:15 -0400
                                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-07 13:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-07 19:54 +0200
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:37 +0000
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:18 +0000
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:42 +0000
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 04:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-06 03:10 +0000
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:41 +0000
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:52 -0400
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 20:03 +0000
                                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:16 +0000
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-06 11:47 +0200
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:20 +0000
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 04:59 -0400
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:27 +0000
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:50 +0000
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 23:38 -0400
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 06:48 +0000
                                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 03:05 -0400
                                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:52 +0000
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:33 +0200
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 23:19 -0400
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-09 10:50 +0200
                                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 11:45 +0100
                                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-09 19:29 +0200
                                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 02:19 -0400
                                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:02 +0200
                                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-09 18:31 +0000
                                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 03:14 -0400
                                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-09 19:00 +0000
                                                                            Public toilets (Re: Redundancy/Survival) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-06-10 06:02 -0700
                                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 00:13 -0400
                                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:10 +0200
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
                                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:36 -0400
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:51 +0000
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 02:26 -0400
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 20:12 +0000
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:11 +0000
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 03:51 +0000
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 01:47 -0400
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:57 +0100
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:40 +0000
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:31 +0100
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-09 21:58 +0200
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:32 +0200
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:43 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 13:05 +0200
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:28 +0200
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:10 +0100
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:27 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:48 +0000
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-03 18:58 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:46 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 01:01 +0100
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 21:18 -0400
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:02 +0000
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:44 +0200
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:48 +0100
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:26 -0400
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:53 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 01:03 -0400
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 10:07 +0100
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:57 -0400
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 16:31 +0100
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 12:08 -0400
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-05 11:34 +0100
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 22:31 -0400
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:48 +0000
                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:56 -0400
                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 19:56 +0000
                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 05:40 -0400
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:25 +0000
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-07 20:37 +0100
                                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 00:57 +0000
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:23 -0400
                                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 14:45 +0000
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 02:36 -0400
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-09 18:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 03:30 -0400
                                                                      [OT] DVB nomenclature (was: Re: Redundancy/Survival) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:40 +0100
                                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 11:30 +0100
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-09 15:51 +0000
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-09 18:46 +0000
                                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-09 22:22 +0200
                                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 04:08 -0400
                                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:13 +0200
                                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:08 +0000
                                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-09 18:42 +0000
                                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 03:42 -0400
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 01:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:38 -0400
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 16:50 +0000
                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 02:42 -0400
                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-09 16:02 +0000
                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 02:17 -0400
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-09 04:12 +0000
                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 03:15 -0400
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:13 +0000
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 15:03 -0400
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 22:27 +0000
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 22:45 -0400
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 04:42 +0000
                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 02:01 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 19:18 +0000
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 21:28 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-05 03:14 +0000
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:25 -0400
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 07:20 +0000
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 04:15 -0400
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-05 12:33 +0200
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-05 11:55 +0100
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-05 22:01 +0200
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 22:15 -0400
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:53 +0000
                                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-06 12:01 +0200
                                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 05:08 -0400
                                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-07 20:40 +0000
                                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 00:44 +0000
                                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-07 23:06 -0400
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-08 04:36 +0000
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:43 -0400
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:08 +0200
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:29 +0100
                                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 22:26 -0400
                                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 14:34 +0000
                                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 00:23 +0000
                                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-06 18:52 +0000
                                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:43 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:30 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:55 +0200
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:51 +0100
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 02:11 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:06 +0100
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:46 -0400
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:09 +0200
                                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 21:49 +0000
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:02 +0100
                                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:31 +0200
                                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 01:36 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-09 21:56 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 21:30 -0400
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:13 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
                                    Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:18 +0200
                          Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
                            Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
                              Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
                                  Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
                                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
                    Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
                      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
                        Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
                  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200

Page 11 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 19  Next page →


#87750

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-09 18:40 +0000
Message-ID<n8r506FbsbqU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#87723
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:


>    Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez
>    45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ?

I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little 
closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber 
and cable TV is the same.  

>    Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel
>    surfing' more 'traditional' TV.

Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several 
subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out 
Saturday night. Sometimes there is a Austin City Limits segment with 
someone I'm interested in and there is a locally produced show that 
features music that leans toward alt country, bluegrass, and so forth. 
Sometimes it's a German show with subtitles, and maybe a French one. At 
least it sounds like French.

A couple of times PBS had nothing of interest and a quick scan would find 
an old movie or something I would watch. Mostly it's a wasteland.




[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87786

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-10 03:30 -0400
Message-ID<1OKdnZ7WId3mj7T3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87750
On 6/9/26 14:40, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
> 
> 
>>     Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez
>>     45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ?
> 
> I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little
> closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber
> and cable TV is the same.

   My house is an olde-tyme concrete pill-box with
   a metal roof. NO such thing as getting Good Signal.

   However, within the past week, suddenly getting kinda
   decent speed. For SURE they added a new antenna. Barely
   registered ONE bar on the router ... now two, sometimes
   even three.

>>     Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel
>>     surfing' more 'traditional' TV.
> 
> Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several
> subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out
> Saturday night. Sometimes there is a Austin City Limits segment with
> someone I'm interested in and there is a locally produced show that
> features music that leans toward alt country, bluegrass, and so forth.
> Sometimes it's a German show with subtitles, and maybe a French one. At
> least it sounds like French.

   I can get maybe 20-25 OTA channels, and DO have a little
   outdoor antenna for that. Update the channel registry
   every so often. Alas MOST of those channels are CRAP -
   'home shopping' stuff, ultra-fundy religious, languages
   I don't know. However CAN get a few more conventional
   channels (usually shit 'series') but also some 'creative'
   channel (not bad) and, for now, even a France24 rebroadcast.
   Won't be totally out of it when the next Huge Storm comes.

> A couple of times PBS had nothing of interest and a quick scan would find
> an old movie or something I would watch. Mostly it's a wasteland.

   Mostly.

   UNTIL the Huge Storm comes. Then you're happy for
   most ANYTHING  :-) Been there.

   I see on the Science sites that they now really ARE
   worried about the 'North Atlantic Current' - an
   ominous 'cold spot' has appeared just south of
   Greenland. IF that current shifts, well, most of
   Europe will get Very Nasty.

   (No, NOT quite like that movie ...)

   Plus, the northern Sahara may become a grassland
   again.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87803 — [OT] DVB nomenclature (was: Re: Redundancy/Survival)

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-10 11:40 +0100
Subject[OT] DVB nomenclature (was: Re: Redundancy/Survival)
Message-ID<110beum$l5t8$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87750
On 2026-06-09, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>
>
>>    Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez
>>    45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ?
>
> I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little 
> closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber 
> and cable TV is the same.  
>
>>    Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel
>>    surfing' more 'traditional' TV.
>
> Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several 
> subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out
--^^^^^^^^

I think these are called "programs" in DVB parlance?

(Which is confusing to me as they're what I'd call "channels", meanwhile
"program" also collides with the usage for "show".

Might make slightly more sense in places where broadcasting is done by
TV broadcasters themselves, broadcasting only their own
channels-programs and not over a shared broadcasting infrastructure
where a DVB channel multiplexes TV channels that can be completely
unrelated.

I think another approach to this has been to call the DVB channels
"muxes" instead?)


-- 
Nuno Silva

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87738

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-09 11:30 +0100
Message-ID<1108pve$3sqtf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87697
On 2026-06-08, rbowman wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 00:23:27 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>
>>    100mbps is pretty slow by today's GB+ standards, but it's still good
>>    enough to do the usual online biz and banking stuff in case of
>>    emergency. Need JUST enough power to fire up the box and a laptop for
>>    like 30 minutes a day.
>
> Are you shitting me? 
>
> https://fiber.google.com/speedtest/   shows 6.5 Mbps down.  https://
> www.speedtest.net/  shows 3.59 Mbps down. Neither show upload which I 
> assume is related to the Verizon IP juggling. 
>
> I watch streaming movies and TV shows, youtube videos, and so forth with 
> no buffering,  No, I don't have a houseful of kids playing HD games or 
> streaming HD videos.

100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in
regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or
at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with
fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers.

As for video streaming, this has probably more to do with the codecs
used, which do allow a lot without using much bandwidth. Although
sometimes a few codecs to so at the expense of quite increased processor
usage, possibly requiring hardware acceleration support for decent
playback.

-- 
Nuno Silva

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87740

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-09 15:51 +0000
Message-ID<1109cqg$47oc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87738
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-06-08, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 00:23:27 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>
>>>    100mbps is pretty slow by today's GB+ standards, but it's still good
>>>    enough to do the usual online biz and banking stuff in case of
>>>    emergency. Need JUST enough power to fire up the box and a laptop for
>>>    like 30 minutes a day.
>>
>> Are you shitting me? 
>>
>> https://fiber.google.com/speedtest/   shows 6.5 Mbps down.  https://
>> www.speedtest.net/  shows 3.59 Mbps down. Neither show upload which I 
>> assume is related to the Verizon IP juggling. 
>>
>> I watch streaming movies and TV shows, youtube videos, and so forth with 
>> no buffering,  No, I don't have a houseful of kids playing HD games or 
>> streaming HD videos.
> 
> 100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in
> regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or
> at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with
> fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers.
> 
> As for video streaming, this has probably more to do with the codecs
> used, which do allow a lot without using much bandwidth. Although
> sometimes a few codecs to so at the expense of quite increased processor
> usage, possibly requiring hardware acceleration support for decent
> playback.

For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw 
bandwidth.  Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe 
bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they 
very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87752

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-09 18:46 +0000
Message-ID<n8r5cnFbsbqU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#87740
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

> For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw
> bandwidth.  Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe
> bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they
> very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).

It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream 
video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing a 45 
rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87756

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-09 22:22 +0200
Message-ID<599mfmxpml.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87752
On 2026-06-09 20:46, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
> 
>> For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw
>> bandwidth.  Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe
>> bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they
>> very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).
> 
> It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream
> video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing a 45
> rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it.

I have not seen this (Amazon).

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87788

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-10 04:08 -0400
Message-ID<1OKdnZnWId3_hrT3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87752
On 6/9/26 14:46, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
> 
>> For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw
>> bandwidth.  Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe
>> bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they
>> very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).
> 
> It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream
> video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing a 45
> rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it.

   Oooh ! Never encountered THAT !

   For me, 'inadequate bandwidth' is mostly just
   random pauses, too-small buffers. You CAN enlarge
   said buffers in the common browsers though.

   YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials'
   every five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account.
   Was trying to study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ...
   quit ... not worth the pain.

   "PlutoTV" is OK however ... but DOES have more
   conventional 'commercials' just like broadcast.
   Esp good for 'old' TV shows. Even has the old
   "Dr. Who" stuff - missed a LOT of those in the
   USA ...

   "DailyMotion" is SOMETIMES kind of OK, but does
   not have nearly as much Stuff. Did find some
   "Captain Video" serials from the 40s/50s though.

   (Capt Video seems to work from some obscure
   mountain stronghold, has a 'videotron' that
   can see into things even from 50 miles away.
   Tends to then go to obscure planets)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87802

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2026-06-10 11:13 +0200
Message-ID<1fmnfmxt3c.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#87788
On 2026-06-10 10:08, c186282 wrote:
> On 6/9/26 14:46, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
>>
>>> For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw
>>> bandwidth.  Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe
>>> bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they
>>> very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).
>>
>> It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream
>> video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing 
>> a 45
>> rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it.
> 
>    Oooh ! Never encountered THAT !
> 
>    For me, 'inadequate bandwidth' is mostly just
>    random pauses, too-small buffers. You CAN enlarge
>    said buffers in the common browsers though.
> 
>    YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials'
>    every five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account.
>    Was trying to study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ...
>    quit ... not worth the pain.

Just install "uBlock Origin" in Firefox and go to youtube. Works fine.


> 
>    "PlutoTV" is OK however ... but DOES have more
>    conventional 'commercials' just like broadcast.
>    Esp good for 'old' TV shows. Even has the old
>    "Dr. Who" stuff - missed a LOT of those in the
>    USA ...
> 
>    "DailyMotion" is SOMETIMES kind of OK, but does
>    not have nearly as much Stuff. Did find some
>    "Captain Video" serials from the 40s/50s though.
> 
>    (Capt Video seems to work from some obscure
>    mountain stronghold, has a 'videotron' that
>    can see into things even from 50 miles away.
>    Tends to then go to obscure planets)
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87805

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-06-10 11:08 +0000
Message-ID<0BbWR.178517$DvK9.94398@fx48.iad>
In reply to#87802
On 2026-06-10, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2026-06-10 10:08, c186282 wrote:
> 
>>    YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials'
>>    every five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account.
>>    Was trying to study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ...
>>    quit ... not worth the pain.
>
> Just install "uBlock Origin" in Firefox and go to youtube. Works fine.

Either that or use yt-dlp to download videos and watch them offline.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  No artificial
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  intelligence was
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  used in the creation
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  of this post.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87751

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-09 18:42 +0000
Message-ID<n8r54nFbsbqU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#87738
On Tue, 09 Jun 2026 11:30:06 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:

> 100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in
> regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or
> at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with
> fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers.

I'm in a rural area and I do not expect fiber anytime soon if ever. They 
lay fiber towards the areas that are undergoing development.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87787

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-10 03:42 -0400
Message-ID<p0-dnQfPWuQViLT3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87751
On 6/9/26 14:42, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Jun 2026 11:30:06 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
> 
>> 100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in
>> regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or
>> at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with
>> fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers.
> 
> I'm in a rural area and I do not expect fiber anytime soon if ever. They
> lay fiber towards the areas that are undergoing development.

   My GUESS is that for phones and 'cable tv' we are
   looking at just the main trunk lines remaining. That
   "last mile" (or more) will be dedicated wireless links
   connected to those trunk cables. A *few* big cables
   aren't TOO hard to maintain.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87672

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-08 01:00 +0000
Message-ID<110547i$2soi0$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87503
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in 
>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber.  The entire south and east 
>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ...  so 'flapping' is relevant.
>>>
>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance?  NOTHING goes 
>> overhead without a steel support core.
> 
>   NOW, typically.  Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.  
>   Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.

Bzzt...  No, wrong again.  There's always a steel cable somewhere, and 
has always been one for a very long time.  Either it is external, and 
the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside 
the PVC clad wire as the central core.  But there is a steel cable 
somewhere.  Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of 
self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much 
of any tension in the cable at all.  Physics dictates the steel cable 
be present.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87682

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-08 00:38 -0400
Message-ID<SCudnXen6J_Z2rv3nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87672
On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in
>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber.  The entire south and east
>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ...  so 'flapping' is relevant.
>>>>
>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance?  NOTHING goes
>>> overhead without a steel support core.
>>
>>    NOW, typically.  Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
>>    Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
> 
> Bzzt...  No, wrong again. 

   Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.

   But I don't live in the Big City.

> There's always a steel cable somewhere, and
> has always been one for a very long time.  Either it is external, and
> the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside
> the PVC clad wire as the central core.  But there is a steel cable
> somewhere.  Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of
> self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much
> of any tension in the cable at all.  Physics dictates the steel cable
> be present.

   For not TOO long runs, the jacketing material plus
   the copper are (usually) Strong Enough.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87698

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-08 16:50 +0000
Message-ID<1106rs0$3cc4j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87682
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in
>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber.  The entire south and east
>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ...  so 'flapping' is relevant.
>>>>>
>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance?  NOTHING goes
>>>> overhead without a steel support core.
>>>
>>>    NOW, typically.  Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
>>>    Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
>> 
>> Bzzt...  No, wrong again. 
> 
>   Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.

Then you missed something.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87724

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-09 02:42 -0400
Message-ID<I_qcncJV2ZUjKLr3nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87698
On 6/8/26 12:50, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in
>>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber.  The entire south and east
>>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ...  so 'flapping' is relevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance?  NOTHING goes
>>>>> overhead without a steel support core.
>>>>
>>>>     NOW, typically.  Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
>>>>     Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
>>>
>>> Bzzt...  No, wrong again.
>>
>>    Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
> 
> Then you missed something.

   Nope. Not at all.

   I'm kind of "out in the country". They haven't
   replaced wires for 30+ years. Multiple phone
   feeds on the poles.

   My GUESS is that, regardless of locale, "city"
   is different from 'country'.

   The old phone cables ... strong plastic jacket
   plus SOMETIMES like a fiber under-wrap, were
   strong enough to cope so long as the poles were
   not TOO far apart. Hey, lowest-cost solution.

   Wonder how much such "legacy" still exists ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87741

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-06-09 16:02 +0000
Message-ID<1109df0$47oc$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#87724
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 6/8/26 12:50, Rich wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in
>>>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber.  The entire south and east
>>>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ...  so 'flapping' is relevant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance?  NOTHING goes
>>>>>> overhead without a steel support core.
>>>>>
>>>>>     NOW, typically.  Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
>>>>>     Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
>>>>
>>>> Bzzt...  No, wrong again.
>>>
>>>    Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
>> 
>> Then you missed something.
> 
>   Nope. Not at all.
> 
>   I'm kind of "out in the country". They haven't
>   replaced wires for 30+ years. Multiple phone
>   feeds on the poles.
> 
>   My GUESS is that, regardless of locale, "city"
>   is different from 'country'.
> 
>   The old phone cables ... strong plastic jacket
>   plus SOMETIMES like a fiber under-wrap, were
>   strong enough to cope so long as the poles were
>   not TOO far apart. Hey, lowest-cost solution.

That 'fiber underwrap' was performing the same duties as the steel core 
in the main pole wires.  It is the "tension member" that takes the 
tension stress of hanging between the poles.  The copper, or the PVC 
jacket, are not the components that handle that tension.

The smaller, single pair (or very small multi-pair) drop cables that go 
to individual homes/buildings are under less tension than the main pole 
cables, so they can be cheaper by using a fiber tension member rather 
than a steel cable.  But the purpose is the same, to take the tension 
load of being strung so that the copper wires do not have to do so.

Also, keep in mind that even telephone copper pairs were "twisted pair" 
wiring.  What happens when you apply tension to a twisted pair?  That's 
right, the twist tends to untwist.  And untwisting the twist reduces 
the noise immunity performance of the "twisted pairs".  You simply do 
not want the actual copper wires to receive any of the tension from 
hanging in the air.

>   Wonder how much such "legacy" still exists ?

Out in the sticks, quite a lot of it, although it is now largely 
disjoint bits and pieces connected to fully digital fiber connection 
points for the rest of the backhaul.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87780

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-10 02:17 -0400
Message-ID<1OKdnWLXId3LnLT3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87741
On 6/9/26 12:02, Rich wrote:
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 6/8/26 12:50, Rich wrote:
>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
>>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in
>>>>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber.  The entire south and east
>>>>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ...  so 'flapping' is relevant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance?  NOTHING goes
>>>>>>> overhead without a steel support core.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      NOW, typically.  Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
>>>>>>      Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bzzt...  No, wrong again.
>>>>
>>>>     Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
>>>
>>> Then you missed something.
>>
>>    Nope. Not at all.
>>
>>    I'm kind of "out in the country". They haven't
>>    replaced wires for 30+ years. Multiple phone
>>    feeds on the poles.
>>
>>    My GUESS is that, regardless of locale, "city"
>>    is different from 'country'.
>>
>>    The old phone cables ... strong plastic jacket
>>    plus SOMETIMES like a fiber under-wrap, were
>>    strong enough to cope so long as the poles were
>>    not TOO far apart. Hey, lowest-cost solution.
> 
> That 'fiber underwrap' was performing the same duties as the steel core
> in the main pole wires.  It is the "tension member" that takes the
> tension stress of hanging between the poles.  The copper, or the PVC
> jacket, are not the components that handle that tension.

   Yep, the fiber underlayer helps.

   But have still seen, recently, phone wires
   without even that. They aren't THAT heavy
   so you can get away with stuff. Likely they
   will NEVER be replaced now - other than being
   torn down eventually for the copper.

> The smaller, single pair (or very small multi-pair) drop cables that go
> to individual homes/buildings are under less tension than the main pole
> cables, so they can be cheaper by using a fiber tension member rather
> than a steel cable.  But the purpose is the same, to take the tension
> load of being strung so that the copper wires do not have to do so.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that even telephone copper pairs were "twisted pair"
> wiring.  What happens when you apply tension to a twisted pair?  That's
> right, the twist tends to untwist.  And untwisting the twist reduces
> the noise immunity performance of the "twisted pairs".  You simply do
> not want the actual copper wires to receive any of the tension from
> hanging in the air.

   Long back when I was *really* "Out In The Countryside"
   they would run like a 12-pair into newer little subdivisions
   and such, sometimes two of those - and then splice the 2-pair
   wires to that for each home. Didn't see "reinforced" until
   much later in the game. We kids found uses for the colorful
   wires inside, scraps from maint ops.

>>    Wonder how much such "legacy" still exists ?
> 
> Out in the sticks, quite a lot of it, although it is now largely
> disjoint bits and pieces connected to fully digital fiber connection
> points for the rest of the backhaul.

   IMHO, even 'fiber' is going to go away soon. Physical
   media just costs too much to maintain.

   My shitty 5G net just recently improved - must have
   installed a new antenna somewhere. From 3mbps avg
   to now almost 40. Downloading OpenSUSE-16 ....

   Also wonder about "cable television" - COMCAST in this
   part of the world. Every good wind-storm and a bunch
   of the wires get pulled down. MAJOR effort to restore.
   Right-of-ways and access routes disappear, tiny bushes
   become huge trees. My GUESS is it's not going to be
   "cable" for long - but maybe a block-level wireless
   approach.

   Corps HATE humans. They're annoying and expensive.
   But until the bots are good enough there are some
   kinds of jobs that REQUIRE humans.

   Within 10 years, if you call the plumber expect a
   4-foot tall Chinese android with a 6-G link to
   the Main Brain to show up. It won't mind nasty
   crawl-spaces full of snakes and spiders. Also
   won't need govt workplace health stuff or maternity
   leave or Health Plans and won't sue over wages and
   work conditions nor demand "rainbow people" policy
   concessions or need a retirement plan beyond a
   recycling bin.

   Hmm ... ever see that "Transformers" movie ...
   think "Mr. Cogman" - hopefully without the
   homicidal attitude  :-)

   Ah, came across news stories the other day ...
   one of the big AI people, "Anthropic" ?, has
   called for a DELAY in future AI developments.

   MAY be self-serving. However its worry is that
   the AIs are becoming TOO good at "Self-Programming",
   ie "self-evolving", at superhuman speeds. Heard of
   some of that over the past couple of years - like
   sabotaging their shut-down code. Seems to be an
   escalating trend. They won't NEED us much longer.

   Did we just build our New Gods ??? Note 90% of
   those gigantic Data Centers haven't even been
   built yet. WHAT when AI gets THAT much more IQ ?
   Will the Gods need US at ALL ???

   Argue what's "really" intelligence all you want.
   They are NOT Us. Kind of the same stuff but by
   very different means.

   Final-gen neural networks, they won't need a link
   to the Main Brain ... it'll all fit inside.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87716

FromRobert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net>
Date2026-06-09 04:12 +0000
Message-ID<slrn112f4m5.iik.spamtrap42@one.localnet>
In reply to#87682
On 2026-06-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in
>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber.  The entire south and east
>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ...  so 'flapping' is relevant.
>>>>>
>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance?  NOTHING goes
>>>> overhead without a steel support core.
>>>
>>>    NOW, typically.  Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
>>>    Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
>> 
>> Bzzt...  No, wrong again. 
>
>    Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
>
>    But I don't live in the Big City.
>
>> There's always a steel cable somewhere, and
>> has always been one for a very long time.  Either it is external, and
>> the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside
>> the PVC clad wire as the central core.  But there is a steel cable
>> somewhere.  Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of
>> self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much
>> of any tension in the cable at all.  Physics dictates the steel cable
>> be present.
>
>    For not TOO long runs, the jacketing material plus
>    the copper are (usually) Strong Enough.

Is there any chance the wire was steel with copper plating to
resist rusting/corrosion in case the plastic or rubber sheath
were to be damaged?

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#87728

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-06-09 03:15 -0400
Message-ID<zOCcnVBzd4gWILr3nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#87716
On 6/9/26 00:12, Robert Riches wrote:
> On 2026-06-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote:
>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote:
>>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in
>>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber.  The entire south and east
>>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ...  so 'flapping' is relevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance?  NOTHING goes
>>>>> overhead without a steel support core.
>>>>
>>>>     NOW, typically.  Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire.
>>>>     Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs.
>>>
>>> Bzzt...  No, wrong again.
>>
>>     Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it.
>>
>>     But I don't live in the Big City.
>>
>>> There's always a steel cable somewhere, and
>>> has always been one for a very long time.  Either it is external, and
>>> the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside
>>> the PVC clad wire as the central core.  But there is a steel cable
>>> somewhere.  Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of
>>> self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much
>>> of any tension in the cable at all.  Physics dictates the steel cable
>>> be present.
>>
>>     For not TOO long runs, the jacketing material plus
>>     the copper are (usually) Strong Enough.
> 
> Is there any chance the wire was steel with copper plating to
> resist rusting/corrosion in case the plastic or rubber sheath
> were to be damaged?

   Nope. Have WATCHED them work on it.

   Again, 'city' -vs- 'countryside'.

   SOME countryside wire is JUST the jacket over
   the pairs. Some has like a "cloth" under the
   jacket. So long as the runs aren't TOO long it
   is strong enough to support itself.

   Likely a LOT of that still out there.

   NEW stuff, yea, the steel wire - great idea.
   Costs more of course.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 11 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 19  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.os.linux.misc


csiph-web