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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 370 — 17 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc
Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:48 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:35 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 17:25 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 03:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 16:06 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 20:20 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:27 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:30 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:24 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:04 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:15 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 02:19 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:34 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-04 08:18 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:48 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:36 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 17:58 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 14:56 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 22:07 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 22:18 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 03:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 07:06 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 04:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 17:17 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:10 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:16 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:46 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 19:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 00:13 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-05 03:12 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-07 13:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-07 19:54 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:37 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:18 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:42 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 04:26 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-06 03:10 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:52 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 20:03 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:16 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-06 11:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:20 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 04:59 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:27 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 23:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 06:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 03:05 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:52 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:33 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 23:19 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-09 10:50 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 11:45 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-09 19:29 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 02:19 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:02 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-09 18:31 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 03:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-09 19:00 +0000
Public toilets (Re: Redundancy/Survival) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-06-10 06:02 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 00:13 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:10 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:36 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 02:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 20:12 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:11 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 03:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 01:47 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:57 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:31 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-09 21:58 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:43 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 13:05 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:27 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-03 18:58 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 01:01 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 21:18 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:44 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:48 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:53 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 01:03 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 10:07 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:57 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 16:31 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 12:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-05 11:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 22:31 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:56 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 19:56 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 05:40 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-07 20:37 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 00:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:23 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 14:45 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 02:36 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-09 18:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 03:30 -0400
[OT] DVB nomenclature (was: Re: Redundancy/Survival) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:40 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 11:30 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-09 15:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-09 18:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-09 22:22 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 04:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:13 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-10 11:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-09 18:42 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 03:42 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 01:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 16:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 02:42 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-09 16:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-10 02:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-09 04:12 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 03:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:13 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 15:03 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 22:27 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 22:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 04:42 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 02:01 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 19:18 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 21:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-05 03:14 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:25 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 07:20 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 04:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-05 12:33 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-05 11:55 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-05 22:01 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 22:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:53 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-06 12:01 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 05:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-07 20:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 00:44 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-07 23:06 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-08 04:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:43 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:08 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:29 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 22:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 14:34 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 00:23 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-06 18:52 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:43 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:30 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:51 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 02:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:06 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:46 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:09 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 21:49 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:02 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:31 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 01:36 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-09 21:56 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 21:30 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:13 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:18 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
Page 11 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 19 Next page →
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 18:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n8r506FbsbqU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87723 |
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote: > Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez > 45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ? I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber and cable TV is the same. > Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel > surfing' more 'traditional' TV. Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out Saturday night. Sometimes there is a Austin City Limits segment with someone I'm interested in and there is a locally produced show that features music that leans toward alt country, bluegrass, and so forth. Sometimes it's a German show with subtitles, and maybe a French one. At least it sounds like French. A couple of times PBS had nothing of interest and a quick scan would find an old movie or something I would watch. Mostly it's a wasteland.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-10 03:30 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1OKdnZ7WId3mj7T3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87750 |
On 6/9/26 14:40, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote: > > >> Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez >> 45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ? > > I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little > closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber > and cable TV is the same. My house is an olde-tyme concrete pill-box with a metal roof. NO such thing as getting Good Signal. However, within the past week, suddenly getting kinda decent speed. For SURE they added a new antenna. Barely registered ONE bar on the router ... now two, sometimes even three. >> Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel >> surfing' more 'traditional' TV. > > Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several > subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out > Saturday night. Sometimes there is a Austin City Limits segment with > someone I'm interested in and there is a locally produced show that > features music that leans toward alt country, bluegrass, and so forth. > Sometimes it's a German show with subtitles, and maybe a French one. At > least it sounds like French. I can get maybe 20-25 OTA channels, and DO have a little outdoor antenna for that. Update the channel registry every so often. Alas MOST of those channels are CRAP - 'home shopping' stuff, ultra-fundy religious, languages I don't know. However CAN get a few more conventional channels (usually shit 'series') but also some 'creative' channel (not bad) and, for now, even a France24 rebroadcast. Won't be totally out of it when the next Huge Storm comes. > A couple of times PBS had nothing of interest and a quick scan would find > an old movie or something I would watch. Mostly it's a wasteland. Mostly. UNTIL the Huge Storm comes. Then you're happy for most ANYTHING :-) Been there. I see on the Science sites that they now really ARE worried about the 'North Atlantic Current' - an ominous 'cold spot' has appeared just south of Greenland. IF that current shifts, well, most of Europe will get Very Nasty. (No, NOT quite like that movie ...) Plus, the northern Sahara may become a grassland again.
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-10 11:40 +0100 |
| Subject | [OT] DVB nomenclature (was: Re: Redundancy/Survival) |
| Message-ID | <110beum$l5t8$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87750 |
On 2026-06-09, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 02:36:22 -0400, c186282 wrote: > > >> Hmmm ... my connection has very recently IMPROVED. fast.com sez >> 45mbps. Maybe they added a new antenna ? > > I did see some improvement when Verizon put up a new tower a little > closer. Towers here follow population density and major highways. Fiber > and cable TV is the same. > >> Anyway, I can usually "stream" ... but rarely do. Pref 'channel >> surfing' more 'traditional' TV. > > Last time I scanned I think I get 5 OTA channels, some with several > subbands. PBS has 4, maybe 5. One is strictly kid shows. I check it out --^^^^^^^^ I think these are called "programs" in DVB parlance? (Which is confusing to me as they're what I'd call "channels", meanwhile "program" also collides with the usage for "show". Might make slightly more sense in places where broadcasting is done by TV broadcasters themselves, broadcasting only their own channels-programs and not over a shared broadcasting infrastructure where a DVB channel multiplexes TV channels that can be completely unrelated. I think another approach to this has been to call the DVB channels "muxes" instead?) -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 11:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1108pve$3sqtf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87697 |
On 2026-06-08, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 00:23:27 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> 100mbps is pretty slow by today's GB+ standards, but it's still good >> enough to do the usual online biz and banking stuff in case of >> emergency. Need JUST enough power to fire up the box and a laptop for >> like 30 minutes a day. > > Are you shitting me? > > https://fiber.google.com/speedtest/ shows 6.5 Mbps down. https:// > www.speedtest.net/ shows 3.59 Mbps down. Neither show upload which I > assume is related to the Verizon IP juggling. > > I watch streaming movies and TV shows, youtube videos, and so forth with > no buffering, No, I don't have a houseful of kids playing HD games or > streaming HD videos. 100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers. As for video streaming, this has probably more to do with the codecs used, which do allow a lot without using much bandwidth. Although sometimes a few codecs to so at the expense of quite increased processor usage, possibly requiring hardware acceleration support for decent playback. -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 15:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1109cqg$47oc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87738 |
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-08, rbowman wrote: > >> On Mon, 8 Jun 2026 00:23:27 -0400, c186282 wrote: >> >>> 100mbps is pretty slow by today's GB+ standards, but it's still good >>> enough to do the usual online biz and banking stuff in case of >>> emergency. Need JUST enough power to fire up the box and a laptop for >>> like 30 minutes a day. >> >> Are you shitting me? >> >> https://fiber.google.com/speedtest/ shows 6.5 Mbps down. https:// >> www.speedtest.net/ shows 3.59 Mbps down. Neither show upload which I >> assume is related to the Verizon IP juggling. >> >> I watch streaming movies and TV shows, youtube videos, and so forth with >> no buffering, No, I don't have a houseful of kids playing HD games or >> streaming HD videos. > > 100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in > regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or > at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with > fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers. > > As for video streaming, this has probably more to do with the codecs > used, which do allow a lot without using much bandwidth. Although > sometimes a few codecs to so at the expense of quite increased processor > usage, possibly requiring hardware acceleration support for decent > playback. For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time).
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 18:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n8r5cnFbsbqU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87740 |
On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw > bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe > bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they > very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time). It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing a 45 rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 22:22 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <599mfmxpml.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87752 |
On 2026-06-09 20:46, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > >> For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw >> bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe >> bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they >> very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time). > > It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream > video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing a 45 > rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it. I have not seen this (Amazon). -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-10 04:08 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1OKdnZnWId3_hrT3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87752 |
On 6/9/26 14:46, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > >> For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw >> bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe >> bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they >> very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time). > > It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream > video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing a 45 > rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it. Oooh ! Never encountered THAT ! For me, 'inadequate bandwidth' is mostly just random pauses, too-small buffers. You CAN enlarge said buffers in the common browsers though. YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials' every five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account. Was trying to study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ... quit ... not worth the pain. "PlutoTV" is OK however ... but DOES have more conventional 'commercials' just like broadcast. Esp good for 'old' TV shows. Even has the old "Dr. Who" stuff - missed a LOT of those in the USA ... "DailyMotion" is SOMETIMES kind of OK, but does not have nearly as much Stuff. Did find some "Captain Video" serials from the 40s/50s though. (Capt Video seems to work from some obscure mountain stronghold, has a 'videotron' that can see into things even from 50 miles away. Tends to then go to obscure planets)
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-10 11:13 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1fmnfmxt3c.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87788 |
On 2026-06-10 10:08, c186282 wrote: > On 6/9/26 14:46, rbowman wrote: >> On Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:51:44 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: >> >>> For video streaming, latency and jitter matter much more than raw >>> bandwidth. Many video streams do not even stress a 10Mbit pipe >>> bandwidth wise, but are very sensitive to jitter in the flow rate (they >>> very much prefer all the packets arrive in the expected time). >> >> It doesn't occur frequently but at times the Amazon or Netflix stream >> video will be okay but the sound will be like the old days of playing >> a 45 >> rpm record at 16 rpm. Restarting the feed fixes it. > >  Oooh ! Never encountered THAT ! > >  For me, 'inadequate bandwidth' is mostly just >  random pauses, too-small buffers. You CAN enlarge >  said buffers in the common browsers though. > >  YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials' >  every five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account. >  Was trying to study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ... >  quit ... not worth the pain. Just install "uBlock Origin" in Firefox and go to youtube. Works fine. > >  "PlutoTV" is OK however ... but DOES have more >  conventional 'commercials' just like broadcast. >  Esp good for 'old' TV shows. Even has the old >  "Dr. Who" stuff - missed a LOT of those in the >  USA ... > >  "DailyMotion" is SOMETIMES kind of OK, but does >  not have nearly as much Stuff. Did find some >  "Captain Video" serials from the 40s/50s though. > >  (Capt Video seems to work from some obscure >  mountain stronghold, has a 'videotron' that >  can see into things even from 50 miles away. >  Tends to then go to obscure planets) > -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-10 11:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <0BbWR.178517$DvK9.94398@fx48.iad> |
| In reply to | #87802 |
On 2026-06-10, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > On 2026-06-10 10:08, c186282 wrote: > >> Â YouTube is mostly USELESS now ... annoying 'commercials' >> Â every five minutes or less. No, NOT gonna make an account. >> Â Was trying to study pre-Sumerian cultures the other day ... >> Â quit ... not worth the pain. > > Just install "uBlock Origin" in Firefox and go to youtube. Works fine. Either that or use yt-dlp to download videos and watch them offline. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | No artificial \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | intelligence was X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | used in the creation / \ if you read it the right way. | of this post.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 18:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n8r54nFbsbqU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #87738 |
On Tue, 09 Jun 2026 11:30:06 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote: > 100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in > regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or > at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with > fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers. I'm in a rural area and I do not expect fiber anytime soon if ever. They lay fiber towards the areas that are undergoing development.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-10 03:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <p0-dnQfPWuQViLT3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87751 |
On 6/9/26 14:42, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 09 Jun 2026 11:30:06 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote: > >> 100mbps can be quite decent, although I suppose the comment was in >> regard to what is *available* with the tech. And, for that, gigabit, or >> at least several hundred mbps, should be feasible at least with >> fiber-based offerings, barring fancy ideas of overcharging consumers. > > I'm in a rural area and I do not expect fiber anytime soon if ever. They > lay fiber towards the areas that are undergoing development. My GUESS is that for phones and 'cable tv' we are looking at just the main trunk lines remaining. That "last mile" (or more) will be dedicated wireless links connected to those trunk cables. A *few* big cables aren't TOO hard to maintain.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-08 01:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <110547i$2soi0$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87503 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote: >>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>> >> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >> overhead without a steel support core. > > NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. > Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs. Bzzt... No, wrong again. There's always a steel cable somewhere, and has always been one for a very long time. Either it is external, and the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside the PVC clad wire as the central core. But there is a steel cable somewhere. Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much of any tension in the cable at all. Physics dictates the steel cable be present.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-08 00:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <SCudnXen6J_Z2rv3nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87672 |
On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote: >>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>> >>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>> overhead without a steel support core. >> >> NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs. > > Bzzt... No, wrong again. Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it. But I don't live in the Big City. > There's always a steel cable somewhere, and > has always been one for a very long time. Either it is external, and > the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside > the PVC clad wire as the central core. But there is a steel cable > somewhere. Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of > self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much > of any tension in the cable at all. Physics dictates the steel cable > be present. For not TOO long runs, the jacketing material plus the copper are (usually) Strong Enough.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-08 16:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1106rs0$3cc4j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87682 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote: >>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>> >>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>>> overhead without a steel support core. >>> >>> NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >>> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs. >> >> Bzzt... No, wrong again. > > Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it. Then you missed something.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 02:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <I_qcncJV2ZUjKLr3nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87698 |
On 6/8/26 12:50, Rich wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote: >>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote: >>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>>> >>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>>>> overhead without a steel support core. >>>> >>>> NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >>>> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs. >>> >>> Bzzt... No, wrong again. >> >> Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it. > > Then you missed something. Nope. Not at all. I'm kind of "out in the country". They haven't replaced wires for 30+ years. Multiple phone feeds on the poles. My GUESS is that, regardless of locale, "city" is different from 'country'. The old phone cables ... strong plastic jacket plus SOMETIMES like a fiber under-wrap, were strong enough to cope so long as the poles were not TOO far apart. Hey, lowest-cost solution. Wonder how much such "legacy" still exists ?
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 16:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1109df0$47oc$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87724 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > On 6/8/26 12:50, Rich wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote: >>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote: >>>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>>>>> overhead without a steel support core. >>>>> >>>>> NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >>>>> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs. >>>> >>>> Bzzt... No, wrong again. >>> >>> Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it. >> >> Then you missed something. > > Nope. Not at all. > > I'm kind of "out in the country". They haven't > replaced wires for 30+ years. Multiple phone > feeds on the poles. > > My GUESS is that, regardless of locale, "city" > is different from 'country'. > > The old phone cables ... strong plastic jacket > plus SOMETIMES like a fiber under-wrap, were > strong enough to cope so long as the poles were > not TOO far apart. Hey, lowest-cost solution. That 'fiber underwrap' was performing the same duties as the steel core in the main pole wires. It is the "tension member" that takes the tension stress of hanging between the poles. The copper, or the PVC jacket, are not the components that handle that tension. The smaller, single pair (or very small multi-pair) drop cables that go to individual homes/buildings are under less tension than the main pole cables, so they can be cheaper by using a fiber tension member rather than a steel cable. But the purpose is the same, to take the tension load of being strung so that the copper wires do not have to do so. Also, keep in mind that even telephone copper pairs were "twisted pair" wiring. What happens when you apply tension to a twisted pair? That's right, the twist tends to untwist. And untwisting the twist reduces the noise immunity performance of the "twisted pairs". You simply do not want the actual copper wires to receive any of the tension from hanging in the air. > Wonder how much such "legacy" still exists ? Out in the sticks, quite a lot of it, although it is now largely disjoint bits and pieces connected to fully digital fiber connection points for the rest of the backhaul.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-10 02:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1OKdnWLXId3LnLT3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87741 |
On 6/9/26 12:02, Rich wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 6/8/26 12:50, Rich wrote: >>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote: >>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote: >>>>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>>>>>> overhead without a steel support core. >>>>>> >>>>>> NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >>>>>> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs. >>>>> >>>>> Bzzt... No, wrong again. >>>> >>>> Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it. >>> >>> Then you missed something. >> >> Nope. Not at all. >> >> I'm kind of "out in the country". They haven't >> replaced wires for 30+ years. Multiple phone >> feeds on the poles. >> >> My GUESS is that, regardless of locale, "city" >> is different from 'country'. >> >> The old phone cables ... strong plastic jacket >> plus SOMETIMES like a fiber under-wrap, were >> strong enough to cope so long as the poles were >> not TOO far apart. Hey, lowest-cost solution. > > That 'fiber underwrap' was performing the same duties as the steel core > in the main pole wires. It is the "tension member" that takes the > tension stress of hanging between the poles. The copper, or the PVC > jacket, are not the components that handle that tension. Yep, the fiber underlayer helps. But have still seen, recently, phone wires without even that. They aren't THAT heavy so you can get away with stuff. Likely they will NEVER be replaced now - other than being torn down eventually for the copper. > The smaller, single pair (or very small multi-pair) drop cables that go > to individual homes/buildings are under less tension than the main pole > cables, so they can be cheaper by using a fiber tension member rather > than a steel cable. But the purpose is the same, to take the tension > load of being strung so that the copper wires do not have to do so. > > Also, keep in mind that even telephone copper pairs were "twisted pair" > wiring. What happens when you apply tension to a twisted pair? That's > right, the twist tends to untwist. And untwisting the twist reduces > the noise immunity performance of the "twisted pairs". You simply do > not want the actual copper wires to receive any of the tension from > hanging in the air. Long back when I was *really* "Out In The Countryside" they would run like a 12-pair into newer little subdivisions and such, sometimes two of those - and then splice the 2-pair wires to that for each home. Didn't see "reinforced" until much later in the game. We kids found uses for the colorful wires inside, scraps from maint ops. >> Wonder how much such "legacy" still exists ? > > Out in the sticks, quite a lot of it, although it is now largely > disjoint bits and pieces connected to fully digital fiber connection > points for the rest of the backhaul. IMHO, even 'fiber' is going to go away soon. Physical media just costs too much to maintain. My shitty 5G net just recently improved - must have installed a new antenna somewhere. From 3mbps avg to now almost 40. Downloading OpenSUSE-16 .... Also wonder about "cable television" - COMCAST in this part of the world. Every good wind-storm and a bunch of the wires get pulled down. MAJOR effort to restore. Right-of-ways and access routes disappear, tiny bushes become huge trees. My GUESS is it's not going to be "cable" for long - but maybe a block-level wireless approach. Corps HATE humans. They're annoying and expensive. But until the bots are good enough there are some kinds of jobs that REQUIRE humans. Within 10 years, if you call the plumber expect a 4-foot tall Chinese android with a 6-G link to the Main Brain to show up. It won't mind nasty crawl-spaces full of snakes and spiders. Also won't need govt workplace health stuff or maternity leave or Health Plans and won't sue over wages and work conditions nor demand "rainbow people" policy concessions or need a retirement plan beyond a recycling bin. Hmm ... ever see that "Transformers" movie ... think "Mr. Cogman" - hopefully without the homicidal attitude :-) Ah, came across news stories the other day ... one of the big AI people, "Anthropic" ?, has called for a DELAY in future AI developments. MAY be self-serving. However its worry is that the AIs are becoming TOO good at "Self-Programming", ie "self-evolving", at superhuman speeds. Heard of some of that over the past couple of years - like sabotaging their shut-down code. Seems to be an escalating trend. They won't NEED us much longer. Did we just build our New Gods ??? Note 90% of those gigantic Data Centers haven't even been built yet. WHAT when AI gets THAT much more IQ ? Will the Gods need US at ALL ??? Argue what's "really" intelligence all you want. They are NOT Us. Kind of the same stuff but by very different means. Final-gen neural networks, they won't need a link to the Main Brain ... it'll all fit inside.
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 04:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn112f4m5.iik.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #87682 |
On 2026-06-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote: >> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote: >>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>> >>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>>> overhead without a steel support core. >>> >>> NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >>> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs. >> >> Bzzt... No, wrong again. > > Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it. > > But I don't live in the Big City. > >> There's always a steel cable somewhere, and >> has always been one for a very long time. Either it is external, and >> the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside >> the PVC clad wire as the central core. But there is a steel cable >> somewhere. Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of >> self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much >> of any tension in the cable at all. Physics dictates the steel cable >> be present. > > For not TOO long runs, the jacketing material plus > the copper are (usually) Strong Enough. Is there any chance the wire was steel with copper plating to resist rusting/corrosion in case the plastic or rubber sheath were to be damaged? -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-09 03:15 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <zOCcnVBzd4gWILr3nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87716 |
On 6/9/26 00:12, Robert Riches wrote: > On 2026-06-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 6/7/26 21:00, Rich wrote: >>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>>> On 6/4/26 11:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>> On 04/06/2026 15:57, c186282 wrote: >>>>>> The sheer mass of copper often meant it was less likely to "flap in >>>>>> the breeze" compared to a skinny fiber. The entire south and east >>>>>> coast of the USA get big HURRICANES ... so 'flapping' is relevant. >>>>>> >>>>> Christ on a bike, Is there no end to your ignorance? NOTHING goes >>>>> overhead without a steel support core. >>>> >>>> NOW, typically. Not THAT long ago, it was just a PVC clad wire. >>>> Expect LOTS of 'legacy' installs. >>> >>> Bzzt... No, wrong again. >> >> Bzzt ... been there, SEEN it, STILL see it. >> >> But I don't live in the Big City. >> >>> There's always a steel cable somewhere, and >>> has always been one for a very long time. Either it is external, and >>> the "PVC bundle" is wired to it for support, or it is actually inside >>> the PVC clad wire as the central core. But there is a steel cable >>> somewhere. Copper is much too ductile to take the strain of >>> self-support between poles, and fiber simply does not appreciate much >>> of any tension in the cable at all. Physics dictates the steel cable >>> be present. >> >> For not TOO long runs, the jacketing material plus >> the copper are (usually) Strong Enough. > > Is there any chance the wire was steel with copper plating to > resist rusting/corrosion in case the plastic or rubber sheath > were to be damaged? Nope. Have WATCHED them work on it. Again, 'city' -vs- 'countryside'. SOME countryside wire is JUST the jacket over the pairs. Some has like a "cloth" under the jacket. So long as the runs aren't TOO long it is strong enough to support itself. Likely a LOT of that still out there. NEW stuff, yea, the steel wire - great idea. Costs more of course.
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