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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #61095 > unrolled thread

Joy of this, Joy of that

Started byroot <NoEMail@home.org>
First post2024-11-19 17:09 +0000
Last post2024-11-20 18:53 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 842 — 23 participants

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Contents

  Joy of this, Joy of that root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-11-19 17:09 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 00:18 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-11-20 02:33 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 02:52 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 04:46 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-20 03:37 -0500
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-20 15:46 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-20 16:03 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 02:20 -0500
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 08:14 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-14 12:03 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-21 13:41 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2024-11-21 20:19 -0700
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 05:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 23:57 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 05:31 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 20:23 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 02:06 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-24 00:16 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:14 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:16 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:39 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-23 13:46 -0700
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:33 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:57 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 20:17 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:26 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:37 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:39 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 17:00 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-24 22:07 +0100
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 02:12 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:55 +0100
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 12:04 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 22:20 +0100
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 23:55 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:10 +0100
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-26 10:24 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-26 13:17 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-26 09:15 -0500
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 09:34 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 18:57 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 21:58 +0100
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 01:38 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 01:40 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:10 +0100
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 11:58 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 19:12 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:18 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:49 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 01:39 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:13 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 22:46 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 05:46 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:56 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 08:52 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 04:48 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 19:32 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 21:36 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 05:06 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:16 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:23 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:53 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:30 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 23:14 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:19 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-01 16:27 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:28 -0500
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:41 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 00:37 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:47 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:57 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 21:27 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:58 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:51 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:30 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:26 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:03 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:25 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:13 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:43 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:12 +0100
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:59 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:32 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:15 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:35 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:43 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:12 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 03:02 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 16:33 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 18:19 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:49 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-08 04:45 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:53 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 03:05 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:26 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:15 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:40 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:44 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:30 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:24 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:37 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                                                                                          Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 00:03 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:19 +0100
                                                                                      Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:36 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:41 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:29 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:40 -0500
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 04:50 +0000
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:27 -0500
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:40 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:05 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 13:39 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 01:22 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:28 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:58 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:53 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:29 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 20:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:23 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:09 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:39 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:15 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 04:41 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:50 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:07 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:52 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:06 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:38 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:49 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-13 04:56 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 02:20 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:38 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:42 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:41 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 11:32 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:01 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:40 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:15 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:09 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:17 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-14 05:18 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 13:08 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:51 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:15 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-09 11:39 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 20:22 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:52 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:07 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-12 08:13 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 01:55 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:30 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 07:53 -0800
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:45 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:38 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:14 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:13 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:28 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 20:49 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:33 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 07:54 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:44 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:42 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:19 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:22 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:39 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 09:03 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:08 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:46 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:13 +1000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 23:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:06 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 05:52 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:47 -0500
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-11-25 19:39 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-26 07:09 -0500
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 19:31 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 09:02 -0800
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 18:55 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-02 23:25 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-03 00:59 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 23:23 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:53 -0500
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-24 22:06 +0100
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 08:03 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:58 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-21 17:25 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 08:10 -0800
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-20 16:31 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-20 17:54 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 19:02 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:05 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-20 23:30 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 23:58 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-21 01:50 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-21 02:48 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-22 20:30 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 08:09 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 10:45 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 20:31 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-22 03:54 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 01:25 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-22 18:53 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:35 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-22 13:37 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:30 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:03 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-22 23:07 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 00:44 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 01:08 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 01:41 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 08:26 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:25 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:36 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 23:48 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 00:31 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:19 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 22:36 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:01 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:29 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 22:37 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-25 11:48 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:47 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 01:43 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:53 +0100
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 19:42 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 23:21 +0100
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 23:37 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:09 +0100
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 19:17 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 21:59 +0100
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 15:21 -0800
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 23:28 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 03:46 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-24 19:35 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 00:36 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 01:41 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 06:47 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 21:50 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 03:00 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:56 +0100
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 21:58 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 04:03 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:12 +0100
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 01:58 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:12 +0100
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 19:06 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 21:26 +0100
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-28 19:59 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 21:53 +0100
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 23:12 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 05:54 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:22 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 08:38 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 03:18 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:18 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 01:18 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 11:04 +0100
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 18:22 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 21:52 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 04:24 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:22 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:42 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:25 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:28 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:02 +0100
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:44 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 03:21 -0500
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 10:29 +0100
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:24 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-29 18:23 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:01 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:51 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:52 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-29 22:43 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:24 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:53 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:52 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:21 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:53 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:31 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 07:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:05 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:19 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:57 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:04 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:54 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:53 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:12 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:18 +0000
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 18:47 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 21:56 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 01:15 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:18 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 18:47 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:11 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 13:19 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 02:21 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:04 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:24 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 01:37 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:09 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:59 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 00:35 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:22 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 21:19 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 09:56 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:46 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:24 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:25 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:51 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:27 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:54 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:27 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:20 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:40 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:23 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:44 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:06 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-12-08 09:29 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:50 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:18 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:41 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:48 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:34 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:39 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 04:52 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:55 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:07 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:06 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:27 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:37 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:34 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:16 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:50 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:24 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:18 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:42 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:10 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:25 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:10 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:05 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 17:44 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 01:18 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:44 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:42 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:38 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 20:57 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:15 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 02:17 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:16 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:23 +1000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 10:25 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:17 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:01 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:04 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 20:40 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:14 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:06 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:28 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:38 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 03:54 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:39 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:00 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:18 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:53 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:32 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:07 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:25 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:20 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:57 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:30 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:13 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:01 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 11:58 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 18:49 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:40 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 02:59 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:08 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:45 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 18:53 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:21 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:55 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:24 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:33 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:57 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:27 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:21 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:09 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:50 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:57 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 17:50 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:20 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:32 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:19 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:52 +0100
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 18:44 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 21:54 +0100
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 01:09 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:50 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:54 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:15 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:46 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:29 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:36 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:32 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-01 18:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:11 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:13 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:14 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:50 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 10:26 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 10:27 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:03 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:26 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:36 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-04 04:03 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:10 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:13 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:27 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:02 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:00 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:51 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:31 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 09:36 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 13:17 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:51 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:11 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:41 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:23 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:40 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:10 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 01:04 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:55 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 08:17 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:50 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:33 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:46 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:29 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:48 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:46 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:09 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:31 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:18 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:22 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:45 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:10 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:56 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:51 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:20 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:43 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:57 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:31 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:07 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 01:39 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:59 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:45 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:41 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:59 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:11 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:09 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:06 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:04 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:26 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 23:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 10:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:20 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:37 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:16 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:37 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:36 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 03:36 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:10 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:31 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 23:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-11 01:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 11:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:29 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:03 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:40 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 12:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-15 12:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 19:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 10:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 00:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 01:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:27 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of Translation Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-11 12:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-11 15:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of Translation Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-12 05:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 22:49 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:37 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 11:18 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:49 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:14 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:18 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:12 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 02:41 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:00 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:45 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:32 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:09 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:28 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 12:24 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:42 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 17:07 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:30 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:51 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 11:59 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:39 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:48 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:26 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:15 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:26 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:38 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:56 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:31 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:13 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:14 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:11 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:54 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:38 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 00:19 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 03:02 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:41 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:42 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:36 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:32 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:55 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 10:20 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:02 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:30 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:13 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:54 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:14 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:25 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 01:15 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:37 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:48 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:56 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-04 00:44 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:12 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-04 07:58 -0800
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:37 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:16 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-06 04:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 05:39 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:29 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:28 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:34 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:31 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:09 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:33 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:19 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 05:37 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:43 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 05:29 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:43 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:07 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:30 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:02 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:15 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:55 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:42 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:27 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:40 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 08:00 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:30 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:50 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2024-12-06 03:29 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 05:25 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:00 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:04 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:49 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:39 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 21:15 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:24 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 09:58 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:24 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-12-06 17:29 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:02 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:20 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:50 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:29 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:57 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:11 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 18:54 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:10 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:32 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:54 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:19 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 12:35 -0800
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 11:03 +0100
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 02:41 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:11 -0500
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 10:25 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:23 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 01:46 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:41 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 09:07 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 22:59 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 04:43 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-26 05:57 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 08:49 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-26 05:29 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 15:43 -0800
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:47 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:23 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:33 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 19:54 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 23:58 -0500
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 02:29 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 08:52 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:30 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:28 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:02 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-21 19:48 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 23:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 23:50 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 01:51 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:34 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:45 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 12:30 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-22 18:53 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-22 20:40 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:44 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 09:05 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:31 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:48 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:47 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 10:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:34 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:45 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 12:46 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 20:20 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 08:57 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:48 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-26 08:32 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:22 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:30 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:36 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-26 17:55 -0700
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 01:48 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 12:05 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 16:33 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 17:20 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 18:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 08:35 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:16 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-28 14:19 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 18:19 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 10:11 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:11 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 18:32 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:16 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 10:01 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 18:51 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 04:39 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-26 22:38 -0700
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 09:27 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:06 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 23:59 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 00:57 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:20 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:38 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:58 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:45 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:40 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-25 04:40 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 06:50 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-25 18:20 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 09:10 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 20:50 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 01:28 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:55 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:47 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 14:09 -0800
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 23:39 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-11-21 01:27 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 02:16 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-21 04:31 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 18:53 +0000

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#62454

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-15 12:37 +0000
Message-ID<vjmiij$irct$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#62452
On 15/12/2024 11:11, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 

>> Many materialist simply cannot understand it - to them the world is 
>> what they think it is and see it as, and therefore Kant is simply 
>> nonsense.
> 
> Yes, I think we've established that this is why we keep talking past 
> each other on this subject. Were you at one point in the materialist 
> camp, and then you reached enlightenment, or did you always feel that 
> the materialist camp was unsatisfactory, and after Kant everything sort 
> of clicked into place for you?
> 

I was firmly in the materialist camp. Id been taught science and that 
was the way I understood the world.

Having to reluctantly dump that model in the face of the evidence was 
very hard.

>>> According to critics like Peter Strawson, while Kant correctly seeks 
>>> to explore what we can understand about our experiences, he 
>>> mistakenly concludes that these limits are imposed by our cognitive 
>>> faculties on a reality that could be structured differently. 
>>
>> That is exactly right, and to my certain knowledge it can be: Because 
>> Strawson cant do it doesn't mean it cant be done.
> 
> This is true. I was curious about what you would say about Strawsons 
> argument.
> 
Id never seen it before, but it was very comprehensible once I looked up 
the meaning of some of t he terms he is using.
He4 sort of buys part of the argument but rejects the conclusions mainly 
on the grounds as far as I can tell that it doesn't get him where he 
wants to go.

Which seems to me to be the certainty of the materialist's credo.

He wants to know 'what's really there' and Kant says 'we cant ever know 
that'


>> Strawson seems to be a Beleiver. He wants there to be a simple 
>> objective reality that we can grasp. Kant says 'its there, but we 
>> cannot grasp it: It has to go through our processes of categorisation 
>> before it is intelligible to us'.
> 
> I think the point is that, if we can never grasp it, we can never say it 
> is or anything about it, and I think that is why he argues it collapses 
> into idealism, or potentially, solipsism.

That is his mistake.  He is unable to grasps the difference  between 
'realism-materialness, Idealism and Transcendental Idealism, which is a 
hybrid

To put it it a bastardised mathematical notation materialism is:

P,C=f(R) - what we Perceive is ONLY a function of what's really there. 
Ans so is consciousness.

Whereas Idealism is :

P,R=f(C)  - What we Perceive as Reality is simply an emergent property 
of Consciousness or Mind.

Transcendental Idealism rearranges the equation so that

P=f(C,R) - What we perceive is a function of what's 'really there' there 
AND of the means by which we transform it into a reality we can deal with.

He (Strawson) doesn't appreciate that  while the set of possible Rs is 
infinite, so is the set of impossible Rs.

And in the end it is not the business of humanity to attempt to 
comprehend something that is completely beyond them. Our job is to map 
it into something we *can* understand.

"Me Tarzan, you Jane. Banana tree that way==>"

Once you appreciate that everyday reality is a *transform* or a *map* of 
'what's really there' you cannot cling to a single value of 'the Truth', 
  That is the purpose of Enlightenment, to make the point that reality 
as we experience it is not what's really there, but a transform of it - 
a map of it into co-ordinates that we fined easy to handle. Space time 
matter etc.

And furthermore, that we have a choice as to how we interpret it.

Which is what science is really doing.

> 
>>> Kant's system requires the existence of noumena to prevent a 
>>> rejection of external reality altogether, and it is this concept 
>>> (senseless objects of which we can have no real understanding) to 
>>> which Strawson objects in his book.
>>>
>> Well there ya go. If you are creating a real metaphysical system you 
>> end up with awkward bits that many people don't like.
>>
>> Strawson presumably didn't like quantum physics either :-)
> 
> This is another very interesting topic. Which interpretation is true, is 
> anyone
> of them true? Or should we adopt the stance and "shut up and calculate"?
> 

Ah. I think my understanding of Enlightenment and metaphysics is that 
none of them are true. They are all models, Some better, some worse.

You move through a mental model of what you *think* is there, never 
encountering directly what *is* there. Or at least that is a meta-model 
of metaphysics itself that works.
That is, we have genuine  choices in what metaphysics we adopt. 
Although we don't know that, and its very hard to change.

Realist/materialists - I never know wh9ch term is the best - are looking 
for a model which covers all cases.

But as Korzybski says "The map, is not the territory"

Some people don't care about the terrain, they just want a map that 
shows the bars. And the roads connecting them

To them the terrain simply does not exist. They only see the bars, and 
the roads.

her people want maps showing the mountains. They climb up and say 'look, 
the world is not only roads leading to bars' but the others say 'who 
cares?' 'not on my map'

...

>> The 'problem' of transcendental idealism is it must needs introduce an 
>> element that is anathema to materialist and realist alike , and that 
>> is the necessary postulating of  an independent entity that takes 
>> 'whatever is the case' - the 'world-in-itself'  - the 'noumenal world' 
>> and turns it into [maps it, performs a 'transform' on it]  the 
>> 'phenomenal world' that everybody casually takes as 'real'.
> 
> I think this is the fundamental disagreement and what Strawson feels is the
> fundamental error that collapses it into idealism.
> 
I dunno.
Strawson is like Penrose. He starts off examining things like 
consciousness, and then collapses back into his old materialist world 
view that matter is real, consciousness is an emergent property of it 
and thereby fails to come to a satisfactory conclusion.

>> Dyed in the wool materialists don't want consciousness and choice to 
>> be independent. They have already decided to make them emergent 
>> properties of *matter*, and so they think Kant is a cunt, trying 
>> possibly to reintroduce the supernatural by the back door.
> 
> This makes a lot of sense to me.
> 
I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to that point of view too.

>> My own thought is that right or wrong, the  answers that that model 
>> gives, solve a huge amount of subjectivity in the human experience.
> 
> Each answer has its own pros and cons. Since it's philosophy, there is 
> always the risk that the conversation will still be going on in a 1000 
> years. ;)
> 
My understanding is that TI is like realism and idealism simply another 
model.
An imperfect attempt to draw a more detailed map.

HOWEVER it does rearrange a lot of quantum physics into an entirely new 
framework


> Thank you for your comments and explanation. I think I understand you 
> better
> now, and where the key-disagreement is.
> 

Ultimately there is no real disagreement, in that in your world view you 
places things in a certain pattern. The transcendental deduction 
invalidates that pattern perhaps, but you - and Strawson do not want to 
take the leap to the logical conclusion because it is profoundly 
uncomfortable and deeply humiliating.

As a species, we don't know jack shit about anything.
We stumble by on half truths, and the only Truth is the enlightenment of 
knowing that to be the case.

We discover we have metaphysical choices that are life changing., 
Religious conversion perhaps - but we have no idea why we ought to make 
those choices.

And sometime, we prefer to stay exactly where we were. Chopping wood, 
fetching water.

>>> A cross section of the history of ideas and philosophy of science 
>>> maybe? It is very interesting!
>>>
>> I spent many years looking at religions, magical systems, cults and so 
>> on. And the paranormal and unexplained 'weird shit'. It is even more 
>> peppered with total bullshit than philosophy, but it does give a clue 
>> as to how  weird some peoples minds are.
> 
> This is the truth! It seems to me that "magic" has collapsed into 
> pop-psychology

It always was.

Yesterdays black magicians are today's politicians,  marketing 
executives and creatives.  Weaving spells to enslave you, take your 
money, and control your behaviour.
E.g. Critical race theory is a *spell*. It modifies the individuals 
metaphysics so that all they can see is race and conflict, and all they 
think they ought to feel is rage.

Disgusting piece of applied metaphysics.

It is all about modifying the worldview of individuals.

As I said, there are an infinite number of possible worldviews that more 
or less fit the facts, and the basis of e.g. AgitProp is to convince the 
individual to select one over another.

What Terry Pratchett called 'headology'

Back in the day everyone stuck a God in their worldview, and provided he 
was teaching humility, it all worked. Beware of gods who teach pride, 
superiority  and conflict. Nazism, Islam. Nasty shit.




> in our current day and age. I am very interested in the subject, from that
> angle. I think magic dovetails nicely with the philosophy of Feyerabend and
> perhaps you can add a pinch of pragmatism as well. 

I rejected Feyerabend. He missed the point, and I think he was another 
person trying to make philosophy fit his predilections. He has a 
chequered past too. Far too much politics in it.


> At least that seems  to be the  justification I get when talking to "occultists" and wiccans.
> 

I gave up on them both., They didn't understand what they were doing.

I remember popping into a little bookshop in my local town and meeting a 
girl who used to run an occult bookshop in London. I said hi and she 
said 'who sent you?'

Nothing would convince her that it was pure happenstance because that is 
where I lived. Apparently there was a psychic war that started after I 
lost touch with that lot.

To believe in other people's occult power over you is a corollary of 
believing that you have power over them. Shit way to live frankly.  The 
shop was closed next time I passed. She ran.

I mean look at Putin. Classic psychopath in a society ruled by fellow 
psychopaths. Black magician first class. Summa cum laude. What we in 
Britain call a total cunt, referencing the power of the vagina to cloud 
men's judgement...

He wins, or he loses, because his life is and always has been one long 
battle for supremacy and recognition. His god is power, and his 
worldview is nothing but a giant chessboard of pawns, and the game of power.

I wouldn't want to be him. Either he gets Ukraine or Ukraine or his own 
fellow pyschopaths get him. He has disallowed any alternatives. Battle 
and sudden death is all he has.

He needs to be put down like a rabid dog.


Do you see how people have huge subjective elements to their worldviews, 
and they are fluid, and can be changed by people with strong personalities?

And the most vulnerable are those who think they are smart. They can be 
baited with poisoned ideas.

The proletariat simply says 'your shitting me, fuck off' I have a lot of 
respect for the proles.

Nietzsche says 'be strong' I say 'fuck that, I want some peace'. I will 
be more or less invisible instead. :-)

But realism doesn't allow for this subjectivity. A realist believes in 
the truth of his ideas. That is supremely dangerous.

The idealist magician believes his ideas form other peoples reality.
Equally dangerous.


>> Funnily enough, I was very familiar with UFO cults and the like and 
>> the 'men in black meme' and when the film came out I was  super amused 
>> when one of my employees insisted in explaining what 'men in black' were.
>>
>> I didn't think admitting I probably knew ten times more than they did 
>> was consistent with running an orderly business.
> 
> Maybe you stopped too soon? If not, you would have had a nice old age, 
> with many
> young women to support you! ;)

Christ! One was bad enough. No support whatsoever.  The only thing I 
agree with Nietzsche on is that 'all women's problems are solved by 
pregnancy'

The Zulu says 'women are strange cattle'

They are dominated by hormones - more so than even men are. And they can 
sublimate them but never eliminate them.

The current pretence is that we are all free and enlightened, but no, we 
are not.
We are, just underneath, animals trying to mate, in a blind sort of urge.

And no amount of lipstick turns that pig into an angel

The best people are those who accept that as a truth and do not go into 
denial.

-- 
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
..I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

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#62466

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-15 19:28 +0100
Message-ID<9cecf575-4e15-43a0-2e6c-f415aebfeea2@example.net>
In reply to#62454

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 15/12/2024 11:11, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>
>>> Many materialist simply cannot understand it - to them the world is what 
>>> they think it is and see it as, and therefore Kant is simply nonsense.
>> 
>> Yes, I think we've established that this is why we keep talking past each 
>> other on this subject. Were you at one point in the materialist camp, and 
>> then you reached enlightenment, or did you always feel that the materialist 
>> camp was unsatisfactory, and after Kant everything sort of clicked into 
>> place for you?
>> 
>
> I was firmly in the materialist camp. Id been taught science and that was the 
> way I understood the world.
>
> Having to reluctantly dump that model in the face of the evidence was very 
> hard.

What made you have to dump it?

>>>> According to critics like Peter Strawson, while Kant correctly seeks to 
>>>> explore what we can understand about our experiences, he mistakenly 
>>>> concludes that these limits are imposed by our cognitive faculties on a 
>>>> reality that could be structured differently. 
>>> 
>>> That is exactly right, and to my certain knowledge it can be: Because 
>>> Strawson cant do it doesn't mean it cant be done.
>> 
>> This is true. I was curious about what you would say about Strawsons 
>> argument.
>> 
> Id never seen it before, but it was very comprehensible once I looked up the 
> meaning of some of t he terms he is using.
> He4 sort of buys part of the argument but rejects the conclusions mainly on 
> the grounds as far as I can tell that it doesn't get him where he wants to 
> go.
>
> Which seems to me to be the certainty of the materialist's credo.
>
> He wants to know 'what's really there' and Kant says 'we cant ever know that'

I find myself in the position where I am a materialist, but, due to the finitude
of our brains, the speed of light, and other contraints, I find it unlikely that
we'll ever be able to know everything.

Since I'm also instrumentalist leaning, and a fan of empiricism, I fully admit
(and believe) that we can only infer what's inside a black hole, or what various
interpretations of quantum physics might or might not lead to, but we'll never
know for sure.

That, does however not exclude (for me) that we live in a material universe. I
think our limitations are due to the fact that we are material beings, living in
a material universe, and accepting those limitations are perfectly fine with me.

>>> Strawson seems to be a Beleiver. He wants there to be a simple objective 
>>> reality that we can grasp. Kant says 'its there, but we cannot grasp it: 
>>> It has to go through our processes of categorisation before it is 
>>> intelligible to us'.
>> 
>> I think the point is that, if we can never grasp it, we can never say it is 
>> or anything about it, and I think that is why he argues it collapses into 
>> idealism, or potentially, solipsism.
>
> That is his mistake.  He is unable to grasps the difference  between 
> 'realism-materialness, Idealism and Transcendental Idealism, which is a 
> hybrid
>
> To put it it a bastardised mathematical notation materialism is:
>
> P,C=f(R) - what we Perceive is ONLY a function of what's really there. Ans so 
> is consciousness.
>
> Whereas Idealism is :
>
> P,R=f(C)  - What we Perceive as Reality is simply an emergent property of 
> Consciousness or Mind.

I think we've been over this, and I do reside soundly on Strawsons side when it
comes to the transcendent error.

I don't want to be rude, but I feel as if we are just regurgitating, so I'll
happily explore how come you "switched sides", and what prompted you to do it.
But when it comes to the arguments, we are at an impasse.

>> Thank you for your comments and explanation. I think I understand you better
>> now, and where the key-disagreement is.
>> 
>
> Ultimately there is no real disagreement, in that in your world view you 
> places things in a certain pattern. The transcendental deduction invalidates 
> that pattern perhaps, but you - and Strawson do not want to take the leap to 
> the logical conclusion because it is profoundly uncomfortable and deeply 
> humiliating.

This is about the nature of reality, so there can be no humiliation. As stated
above, I think that Strawson does take TI to its logical conclusion which is
idealism, which is a dead end. You disagree. I have not been able to persuade
you, and you have not been able to persuade me.

There has not been a "meeting of minds" and enlightenment! This is sad!

> As a species, we don't know jack shit about anything.

I think this is a little bit dramatic, given the enormous progress of science,
improvement in quality of life, and general happiness. This is in fact a strong
proof of the materialist world view. ;)

Jokes aside, I understand that this is not what you mean.

> We discover we have metaphysical choices that are life changing., Religious 
> conversion perhaps - but we have no idea why we ought to make those choices.

Happiness? Can there be anything else? I place meaning as something that
contributes to my happiness, and not happiness as a byproduct of meaning.

>> This is the truth! It seems to me that "magic" has collapsed into 
>> pop-psychology
>
> It always was.
>
> Yesterdays black magicians are today's politicians,  marketing executives and 
> creatives.  Weaving spells to enslave you, take your money, and control your 
> behaviour.

I flipped through a book by Ramsey Dukes a week or two ago, and he makes the
exact same point. Maybe you read it? Maybe you are him?

>> At least that seems  to be the  justification I get when talking to 
>> "occultists" and wiccans.
>
> I gave up on them both., They didn't understand what they were doing.

I think it is about hope, and them wanting there to be something more than the
material world. A sort of spiritual longing, and consolation (magic) they cannot
get in any other way.

> I remember popping into a little bookshop in my local town and meeting a girl 
> who used to run an occult bookshop in London. I said hi and she said 'who 
> sent you?'

Reminds me of politicial zealots! Run!

> I mean look at Putin. Classic psychopath in a society ruled by fellow 
...
> He needs to be put down like a rabid dog.

This is the correct statement! I fear europe is repeating the same mistakes they
did with Hitler. The sooner he can be taken out, the better. I am surprised that
Ukraine has not started an assasination market and put a billion dollar in prize
money on his head. Maybe that would motivate someone in his inner circle?

> Nietzsche says 'be strong' I say 'fuck that, I want some peace'. I will be 
> more or less invisible instead. :-)

Well, I think you exemplify what Nietzsche means with being strong. That does
not exclude moving to nature and wanting some peace. ;)

> But realism doesn't allow for this subjectivity. A realist believes in the 
> truth of his ideas. That is supremely dangerous.

Of course it does! A realist must be clear about what can be known and what
cannot be known. What is objective, and what is subjective. I find it an
excellent tool for dividing up what can be known from what cannot be known, and
that brings clarity.

> The idealist magician believes his ideas form other peoples reality.
> Equally dangerous.

This is called mental illness. ;)

>> Maybe you stopped too soon? If not, you would have had a nice old age, with
>> many young women to support you! ;)
>
> Christ! One was bad enough. No support whatsoever.  The only thing I agree 
> with Nietzsche on is that 'all women's problems are solved by pregnancy'

Did you ever have children?

> The Zulu says 'women are strange cattle'
>
> They are dominated by hormones - more so than even men are. And they can 
> sublimate them but never eliminate them.

This is the truth! I often explain why women do not make good leaders (on
average) and it comes down to hormones, being more empathetic, being less
psycho. Psycho men will gladly trample on others, and has no problem sacrificing
the few for the many. Women, by their brain structures and hormones have a much
harder time doing this. That means men have a natural advantage.

Some women master this, but they are likelier to get burned out, since they are
fighting against their biological setup.

It is funny to watch the smoke coming out of militant feminists ears! =D

> The current pretence is that we are all free and enlightened, but no, we are
> not.  We are, just underneath, animals trying to mate, in a blind sort of
> urge.

Again I think it is more nuanced, but yes, there's plenty of animal left in man.
I agree with that, and this animal can be ruthlessly exploited.

> And no amount of lipstick turns that pig into an angel
>
> The best people are those who accept that as a truth and do not go into 
> denial.

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#62316

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-13 10:42 +0000
Message-ID<vjh32e$3btea$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#62267
On 12/12/2024 20:31, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:21:18 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> In some caes perhaps parody, but I think in others, he might have
>>> borrowed for dramatic effect? One thing is clear, I find him to be one
>>> of the best writers of many philosophers. Compare it with some modern
>>> analytic philosophy and it's not even the same universe. Modern
>>> philosophy texts can be bone dry.
>>
>> While he ultimately disagreed with him, Nietzsche learned a lot from
>> Schopenhauer. They both are readable. Kant's answer to Hume isn't and
>> Hegel, well...
> 
> I find Schopenhauer opaque and too negative, and way too wordy. Kant and 
> Hume I never read in the original but only filtered through Coplestones 
> history of philosophy and did not feel like I needed the originals.
> 
Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer

>> It's been a long time since I've read Russell, Moore, Wittgenstein, 
>> etc. I
>> chewed on Principia in high school and tried to read some of the others
>> later in life.
> 
> Russell is not too bad. He has some nice essays. But his technical work 
> is not my cup of tea.
> 
>> Part of the problem is I realized my brain doesn't work that way. I've
>> made a living employing logic all my life but it just 'happens'.
> 
> 

-- 
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social 
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the 
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

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#62336

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-13 20:18 +0000
Message-ID<ls3j5cFd6vkU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#62316
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:42:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer

I've got to hunt down his volume on the Germans. I never read that one. In 
general Anglo-American and Continental philosophy go in separate 
directions. I feel more comfortable with the continentals.

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#62370

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-14 11:54 +0100
Message-ID<add19763-e4a8-12e9-1910-ef25f8713ebc@example.net>
In reply to#62336

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:42:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer
>
> I've got to hunt down his volume on the Germans. I never read that one. In
> general Anglo-American and Continental philosophy go in separate
> directions. I feel more comfortable with the continentals.

For me, to exagerate a bit, anglo-american seems more technical and dry, 
while continentals (incontinentals) seem more like poetry, or chicken soup 
for the soul.

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#62378

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-14 11:18 +0000
Message-ID<vjjphs$3v6mu$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#62370
On 14/12/2024 10:54, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:42:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer
>>
>> I've got to hunt down his volume on the Germans. I never read that 
>> one. In
>> general Anglo-American and Continental philosophy go in separate
>> directions. I feel more comfortable with the continentals.
> 
> For me, to exagerate a bit, anglo-american seems more technical and dry, 
> while continentals (incontinentals) seem more like poetry, or chicken 
> soup for the soul.

Yes. . To the extent that you have the Kierkegaard...couldn't get beyond 
chapter one...



-- 
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of 
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

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#62396

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-14 19:02 +0100
Message-ID<b661e5d8-25bc-6059-3df3-e0909ada94c0@example.net>
In reply to#62378

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/12/2024 10:54, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:42:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer
>>> 
>>> I've got to hunt down his volume on the Germans. I never read that one. In
>>> general Anglo-American and Continental philosophy go in separate
>>> directions. I feel more comfortable with the continentals.
>> 
>> For me, to exagerate a bit, anglo-american seems more technical and dry, 
>> while continentals (incontinentals) seem more like poetry, or chicken soup 
>> for the soul.
>
> Yes. . To the extent that you have the Kierkegaard...couldn't get beyond 
> chapter one...

I thought about looking into Kierkegaard after reading some Karl Jaspers, 
but haven't gotten around to it yet.

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#62404

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-14 18:37 +0000
Message-ID<vjkj9c$435q$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#62396
On 14/12/2024 18:02, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 14/12/2024 10:54, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:42:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer
>>>>
>>>> I've got to hunt down his volume on the Germans. I never read that 
>>>> one. In
>>>> general Anglo-American and Continental philosophy go in separate
>>>> directions. I feel more comfortable with the continentals.
>>>
>>> For me, to exagerate a bit, anglo-american seems more technical and 
>>> dry, while continentals (incontinentals) seem more like poetry, or 
>>> chicken soup for the soul.
>>
>> Yes. . To the extent that you have the Kierkegaard...couldn't get 
>> beyond chapter one...
> 
> I thought about looking into Kierkegaard after reading some Karl 
> Jaspers, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

I am not sure it was worth buying the book frankly.

Enormous quantities of philosophy can safely be ignored by most people 
and a fair chunk by everybody.

An awful lot is trying to keep Christianity alive against the onslaught 
of rational materialism.


-- 
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah 
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

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#62420

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-14 23:01 +0100
Message-ID<34fe434a-bc41-a060-688b-d50eb7404c0e@example.net>
In reply to#62404

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/12/2024 18:02, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> On 14/12/2024 10:54, D wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:42:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've got to hunt down his volume on the Germans. I never read that one. 
>>>>> In
>>>>> general Anglo-American and Continental philosophy go in separate
>>>>> directions. I feel more comfortable with the continentals.
>>>> 
>>>> For me, to exagerate a bit, anglo-american seems more technical and dry, 
>>>> while continentals (incontinentals) seem more like poetry, or chicken 
>>>> soup for the soul.
>>> 
>>> Yes. . To the extent that you have the Kierkegaard...couldn't get beyond 
>>> chapter one...
>> 
>> I thought about looking into Kierkegaard after reading some Karl Jaspers, 
>> but haven't gotten around to it yet.
>
> I am not sure it was worth buying the book frankly.

That's the advantage with a lot of philosophy, it's old enough to have no 
copyright. ;)

> Enormous quantities of philosophy can safely be ignored by most people and a 
> fair chunk by everybody.

Ahh... but I do have an academic degree in philosophy, so I'm naturally 
interested in it. =)

> An awful lot is trying to keep Christianity alive against the onslaught of 
> rational materialism.

This is a very fascinating area for me. Where spirituality crashes into 
the scientific worldview. William James tried to solve the equation á la 
pragmatism. It's one possible answer in my opinion, although I don't quite 
see how it would avoid impostor syndrome in some people (like me). ;)

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#62406

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-14 18:43 +0000
Message-ID<ls61u9Fp95nU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#62396
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 19:02:23 +0100, D wrote:

> I thought about looking into Kierkegaard after reading some Karl
> Jaspers,
> but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Another golden oldie. Existentialism was the cool thing in my youth and 
Jaspers was often thrown into that bag along with Buber, Tillich, Sartre, 
Camus and the rest of the usual suspects. Most of it either went over my 
head or under my feet, I'm not sure which. The offshoots like the theater 
of the absurd were absurd. Sitting through 'The Bald Soprano'  was a once 
in a lifetime experience, I hope.

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#62414

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-14 19:59 +0000
Message-ID<vjko3l$4tan$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#62406
On 14/12/2024 18:43, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 19:02:23 +0100, D wrote:
> 
>> I thought about looking into Kierkegaard after reading some Karl
>> Jaspers,
>> but haven't gotten around to it yet.
> 
> Another golden oldie. Existentialism was the cool thing in my youth and
> Jaspers was often thrown into that bag along with Buber, Tillich, Sartre,
> Camus and the rest of the usual suspects. 

Oh. Complete cunts the lot of them. Should have been hanged at birth.

They all started from assumptions they didn't even know they had as far 
as I can remember,

Most of it either went over my
> head or under my feet, I'm not sure which. The offshoots like the theater
> of the absurd were absurd. Sitting through 'The Bald Soprano'  was a once
> in a lifetime experience, I hope.

ArtStudents™ all...


-- 
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will 
let them."


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#62431

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-15 00:33 +0000
Message-ID<ls6mebFsffbU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#62414
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 19:59:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> ArtStudents™ all...

Definitely. Keeping with the times the oldest technological institute in 
the US was trying to reinvent itself as a university and wanted to broaden 
the horizons of STEM philistines so they would bring speakers and 
performances on campus.

Long after I graduated they completely jumped the shark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Experimental_Media_and_Performing_Arts_Center

That would be fine but their rating slipped from the top 3 to somewhere in 
the middle of the pack. They're putting a lot of emphasis on a degree 
program in video gaming and hope to revitalize the local economy with 
gaming companies. 

I'm not much of a gamer but I do realize the industry rakes in money like 
porn sites so maybe they're on to something. At least the DEI president 
who was once the highest paid private school president is gone. They 
didn't get their money's worth. She checked off the black and female boxes 
but afaik she wasn't a lesbian.

Alumni association emails go directly to the junk folder.

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#62443

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-15 11:25 +0100
Message-ID<88b02ff1-094c-5931-1f1a-69efbadabecd@example.net>
In reply to#62431

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 19:59:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> ArtStudents™ all...
>
> Definitely. Keeping with the times the oldest technological institute in
> the US was trying to reinvent itself as a university and wanted to broaden
> the horizons of STEM philistines so they would bring speakers and
> performances on campus.
>
> Long after I graduated they completely jumped the shark.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Experimental_Media_and_Performing_Arts_Center
>
> That would be fine but their rating slipped from the top 3 to somewhere in
> the middle of the pack. They're putting a lot of emphasis on a degree
> program in video gaming and hope to revitalize the local economy with
> gaming companies.
>
> I'm not much of a gamer but I do realize the industry rakes in money like
> porn sites so maybe they're on to something. At least the DEI president
> who was once the highest paid private school president is gone. They
> didn't get their money's worth. She checked off the black and female boxes
> but afaik she wasn't a lesbian.
>
> Alumni association emails go directly to the junk folder.

My old alma mater kicked out a student for being anti-immigration. His 
crime was to discuss it with a classmate and supporting it with facts.

I think there was a small uprising and he was allowed back eventually. But 
there was never any apology.

To add insult to injury, they closed down the alumni email addresses, 
because they thought it was too expensive (they are a microsoft exchange 
customer, and probably have moved the students to "ze cloud" and were 
fearing a huge price increase if they had to move the old alumni exchange 
people to the cloud.

Needless to say, no alumni mails even reach me any longer. ;)

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#62421

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-14 23:05 +0100
Message-ID<2e2570aa-409d-c974-abfd-72ef472e30e8@example.net>
In reply to#62406

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 19:02:23 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I thought about looking into Kierkegaard after reading some Karl
>> Jaspers,
>> but haven't gotten around to it yet.
>
> Another golden oldie. Existentialism was the cool thing in my youth and
> Jaspers was often thrown into that bag along with Buber, Tillich, Sartre,
> Camus and the rest of the usual suspects. Most of it either went over my

Well, at least philosophy was the cool thing in your youth. In my youth it 
was completely gone. ;)

Sartre and the french are completely incomprehensible to me, and just 
word-diarrhea if you ask me. So I always found existentialists not very 
impressive. Then I found Jaspers and he did have some interesting 
thoughts. A lot of it does read more like inspirational poetry, but there 
are some things there that I appreciate. So I usually find philosophers by 
looking at who they were inspired by. So in Jaspers there's some 
Nietzsche, and some Kierkegaard, and since I like Nietzsche, I figured the 
dane might be next on the list. Alternatively, move up a generation and 
see how is/was inspired by Jaspers.


> head or under my feet, I'm not sure which. The offshoots like the theater
> of the absurd were absurd. Sitting through 'The Bald Soprano'  was a once
> in a lifetime experience, I hope.
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#62432

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-15 01:04 +0000
Message-ID<ls6o9nFt2anU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#62421
On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:05:48 +0100, D wrote:

>  Alternatively, move up a generation and
> see how is/was inspired by Jaspers.

Jaspers was sort of a dead end and his work on psychopathology may have 
had more of an impact than his philosophy. He was Arendt's thesis advisor 
and did have some influence on her. 

Postwar German philosophy was a food fight with a lot of personalities 
involved. The Frankfurt School captured a lot of attention. 

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#62444

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-15 11:27 +0100
Message-ID<2898d60f-10c4-2435-f48c-bea4bbafad07@example.net>
In reply to#62432

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:05:48 +0100, D wrote:
>
>>  Alternatively, move up a generation and
>> see how is/was inspired by Jaspers.
>
> Jaspers was sort of a dead end and his work on psychopathology may have
> had more of an impact than his philosophy. He was Arendt's thesis advisor
> and did have some influence on her.
>
> Postwar German philosophy was a food fight with a lot of personalities
> involved. The Frankfurt School captured a lot of attention.
>

Oh, that's sad. Nothing more to add to his conversation then. =/

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#62377

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-14 11:17 +0000
Message-ID<vjjpff$3v6mu$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#62336
On 13/12/2024 20:18, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:42:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer
> 
> I've got to hunt down his volume on the Germans. I never read that one. In
> general Anglo-American and Continental philosophy go in separate
> directions. I feel more comfortable with the continentals.
> 
I am agnostic. There is some (to me) very good German philosophy and 
some very good English philosophy. And some very bad...

...and the aphorism is that all the problems of French philosophy would 
not have arisen if they had in fact written in German :-)

I think the UK is good on logic, but Germans thought more deeply about 
metaphysics.

-- 
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, 
diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

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#62359

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-14 11:28 +0100
Message-ID<a28d7d81-ec76-a5d4-6f43-b31b28605a37@example.net>
In reply to#62316

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 12/12/2024 20:31, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:21:18 +0100, D wrote:
>>> 
>>>> In some caes perhaps parody, but I think in others, he might have
>>>> borrowed for dramatic effect? One thing is clear, I find him to be one
>>>> of the best writers of many philosophers. Compare it with some modern
>>>> analytic philosophy and it's not even the same universe. Modern
>>>> philosophy texts can be bone dry.
>>> 
>>> While he ultimately disagreed with him, Nietzsche learned a lot from
>>> Schopenhauer. They both are readable. Kant's answer to Hume isn't and
>>> Hegel, well...
>> 
>> I find Schopenhauer opaque and too negative, and way too wordy. Kant and 
>> Hume I never read in the original but only filtered through Coplestones 
>> history of philosophy and did not feel like I needed the originals.
>> 
> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer

Ah... he taught me well! ;) Any suggestions about a similar book about 
them, but with a more loving touch?

>>> It's been a long time since I've read Russell, Moore, Wittgenstein, etc. I
>>> chewed on Principia in high school and tried to read some of the others
>>> later in life.
>> 
>> Russell is not too bad. He has some nice essays. But his technical work is 
>> not my cup of tea.
>> 
>>> Part of the problem is I realized my brain doesn't work that way. I've
>>> made a living employing logic all my life but it just 'happens'.
>> 
>> 
>
>

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#62386

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-14 13:14 +0000
Message-ID<vjk0ar$nd7$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#62359
On 14/12/2024 10:28, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer
> 
> Ah... he taught me well! ;) Any suggestions about a similar book about 
> them, but with a more loving touch?

There was a series of interviews on BBC television back in the day when 
it had intelligent content where Bryan Magee talks with various 
philosophers about other philosophers.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhP9EhPApKE8B-g03RivIMt7llh1cyEGV

I really recommend these.

Copplestone is adamant that 'this is what they said, but of course I 
don't agree'


Hilary Putnam is my idea of the greatest philosopher of the 20th 
century, along with Sir Roger Scruton.

If you don't like woke leftism, Scruton is your man. He tore the New 
Left to pieces beautifully, but being in some sense a Christian, he 
didn't twist the knife  in afterwards.

"Fools, Frauds and Firebrands: Thinkers of the New Left" is a hoot. 
Unless you are one of them...

-- 
Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.
  – Will Durant

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#62398

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-14 19:07 +0100
Message-ID<a6edfb66-6af3-fee3-d978-f6ae2cebb05b@example.net>
In reply to#62386

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 14/12/2024 10:28, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>> Copplestone hated Kant and schopenhauer
>> 
>> Ah... he taught me well! ;) Any suggestions about a similar book about 
>> them, but with a more loving touch?
>
> There was a series of interviews on BBC television back in the day when it 
> had intelligent content where Bryan Magee talks with various philosophers 
> about other philosophers.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhP9EhPApKE8B-g03RivIMt7llh1cyEGV
>
> I really recommend these.

Got it! I have all episodes downloaded on my tv computer. I really like 
the programs. Only thing is that they are perhaps a bit too compressed. 
But the format is nice, and the experts (in my opinion) seem to know what 
they are talking about.

Somehow I feel sad when I watch it, because programs like that almost do 
not exist on TV any longer.

> Copplestone is adamant that 'this is what they said, but of course I don't 
> agree'
>
>
> Hilary Putnam is my idea of the greatest philosopher of the 20th century, 
> along with Sir Roger Scruton.
>
> If you don't like woke leftism, Scruton is your man. He tore the New Left to 
> pieces beautifully, but being in some sense a Christian, he didn't twist the 
> knife  in afterwards.

Interesting! Will definitely check out Scruton.

> "Fools, Frauds and Firebrands: Thinkers of the New Left" is a hoot. Unless 
> you are one of them...
>
>

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