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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #85827 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-04-22 23:55 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-05-05 09:07 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 68 — 19 participants |
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AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-22 23:55 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-22 20:28 -0400
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-24 08:10 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-04-23 16:15 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 17:43 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-24 08:35 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-23 23:47 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2026-04-24 18:31 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 07:29 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-26 09:41 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 08:59 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 09:28 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-27 08:43 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-27 07:18 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-27 11:20 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-27 07:59 -0700
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-27 16:57 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-27 18:18 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-28 04:33 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-27 11:19 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-27 13:10 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-28 08:29 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-27 18:14 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 12:10 -0700
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-28 08:48 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-28 07:51 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-29 08:59 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-29 07:52 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-29 10:28 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-29 12:56 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-29 18:46 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-29 21:22 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-29 21:27 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-01 09:20 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-01 14:01 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-01 15:46 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-01 22:55 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-02 10:09 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:39 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2026-05-02 22:35 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-29 08:53 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-30 09:03 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-30 08:53 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-01 08:53 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-30 23:41 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-30 11:08 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 00:14 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-30 13:46 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-30 16:50 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-01 09:04 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-01 00:05 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-28 09:56 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 08:27 -0700
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-28 18:37 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-28 22:44 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-29 03:42 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-28 22:43 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:18 -0700
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-04-29 08:46 +1000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-28 16:31 -0700
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 11:47 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-26 14:02 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2026-04-26 12:14 -0500
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-26 20:58 +0200
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-26 18:30 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 09:29 +0100
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Anthk GM <anthk@disroot.org> - 2026-05-05 08:23 +0000
Re: AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-05 09:07 +0000
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-22 23:55 +0000 |
| Subject | AI Is Killing Some Legacy Hardware Support |
| Message-ID | <10sbn6f$2kkkk$8@dont-email.me> |
Too many armchair detectives are using AI and fuzzers to find alleged bugs in Linux driver support for old hardware that hardly anyone uses any more. This means the pool of available people to actually test those reports to confirm that they’re not complete hallucinations is correspondingly small. So they cannot really be expected to follow up all these reports, let alone fix the legitimate ones. As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers completely from the mainline kernel. <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending-support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug-reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused-systems>
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-22 20:28 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <uSOdnY-T3bYI-nT0nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #85827 |
On 4/22/26 19:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > Too many armchair detectives are using AI and fuzzers to find alleged > bugs in Linux driver support for old hardware that hardly anyone uses > any more. This means the pool of available people to actually test > those reports to confirm that they’re not complete hallucinations is > correspondingly small. So they cannot really be expected to follow up > all these reports, let alone fix the legitimate ones. > > As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to > maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers > completely from the mainline kernel. > > <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending-support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug-reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused-systems> Hmmm ... Well, IF distro makers keep them around, installed by users as-needed .....
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-24 08:10 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <69ea98ed@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #85828 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > On 4/22/26 19:55, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to >> maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers >> completely from the mainline kernel. >> >> <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending-support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug-reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused-systems> > > Hmmm ... > > Well, IF distro makers keep them around, installed > by users as-needed ..... Once they're out of the kernel code, they can't be built as optional modules for distro packages either, unless they're reworked to build separately or patched back into the kernel. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-23 16:15 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10sd9ig$3t93f$2@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #85827 |
Am 23.04.26 um 01:55 schrieb Lawrence D’Oliveiro: > Too many armchair detectives are using AI and fuzzers to find alleged > bugs in Linux driver support for old hardware that hardly anyone uses > any more. This means the pool of available people to actually test > those reports to confirm that they’re not complete hallucinations is > correspondingly small. So they cannot really be expected to follow up > all these reports, let alone fix the legitimate ones. > > As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to > maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers > completely from the mainline kernel. The issue is not that AI found bugs (or reported that, I do not know if those issues are real), but that the driver is unmaintained. I can understand that such software will be removed. Although, there needs to be someone who tests and develops the driver. That is still possible for PCI cards, but ISA or PCMCIA will be harder. -- Gruß Marco Muell und Spam bitte an abfalleimer2000@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
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| From | Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-23 17:43 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <wwva4utvd97.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> |
| In reply to | #85849 |
Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> writes: > Am 23.04.26 um 01:55 schrieb Lawrence D’Oliveiro: >> Too many armchair detectives are using AI and fuzzers to find alleged >> bugs in Linux driver support for old hardware that hardly anyone uses >> any more. This means the pool of available people to actually test >> those reports to confirm that they’re not complete hallucinations is >> correspondingly small. So they cannot really be expected to follow up >> all these reports, let alone fix the legitimate ones. >> As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to >> maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers >> completely from the mainline kernel. > > The issue is not that AI found bugs (or reported that, I do not know > if those issues are real), but that the driver is unmaintained. I can > understand that such software will be removed. There’s a bit more nuance to it than that. Under-supported components of a system get removed when the perceived cost of keeping (triaging and fixing bugs) them exceeds the benefits (e.g. end users keep using their network cards). If the increase in costs corresponds to genuine bug reports then fair enough, but if it’s gippity nonsense then what has happened is a denial-of-service attack by the armchair detectives on the kernel development community. -- https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-24 08:35 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <69ea9ec7@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #85827 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to > maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers > completely from the mainline kernel. > > <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending-support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug-reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused-systems> Yikes, and I see as well as network drivers they're starting the process of dropping PCMCIA support: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Drops-Old-PCMCIA-Code I always considered installing Linux on brand new systems a bit dodgy with drivers often still having bugs ironed out, but since I personally use ancient tech I can assume everything will just work. Indeed the older the better since with hardware made before the mid 2000s you don't have headaches with needing huge firmware packages and the clunky way drivers can fail without them. I've mainly avoided the BSDs for fear of driver issues, even while the adoption of Systemd and Wayland by most Linux distros has been making them more attractive. It looks like the balance might be tipping in their favour now for me. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-23 23:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n4vpdeF6nibU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #85877 |
On 24 Apr 2026 08:35:51 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to >> maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers >> completely from the mainline kernel. >> >> <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending- support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug- reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused- systems> > > Yikes, and I see as well as network drivers they're starting the process > of dropping PCMCIA support: > > https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Drops-Old-PCMCIA-Code I have a laptop that uses PCMCIA -- a 1995 Compaq Concerto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto I don't think there is any danger of installing Linux on it.
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| From | Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-24 18:31 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <69eb2a5f@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #85878 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On 24 Apr 2026 08:35:51 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to >>> maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers >>> completely from the mainline kernel. >>> >>> <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending- > support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug- > reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused- > systems> >> >> Yikes, and I see as well as network drivers they're starting the process >> of dropping PCMCIA support: >> >> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Drops-Old-PCMCIA-Code > > I have a laptop that uses PCMCIA -- a 1995 Compaq Concerto At the linked page the proponent says themselves "PCMCIA is almost completely obsolete (the last computers supporting it natively were from ~2009)". The late 2000s laptop I run Devuan on has PCMCIA. The early 2000s laptop I'm posting from now has PCMCIA too, though I don't try to run a current Linux distro on it anymore. I've got a stack of PCMCIA cards within reach and they can still be purchased new. The ethernet card in the stack is a Xircom one which I just confirmed uses the xirc2ps driver proposed for removal at the link in the Tom's Hardware post. If 2009 is too old for the Linux devs then Linux isn't for me anymore. Stuff 'em, I liked Linux because I didn't need to worry about this sort of thing. The BSDs have the same price tag so it's time to check them out. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-26 07:29 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10skbd3$1cssv$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85889 |
On 2026-04-24, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >> On 24 Apr 2026 08:35:51 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>> As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to >>>> maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers >>>> completely from the mainline kernel. >>>> >>>> <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending- >> support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug- >> reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused- >> systems> >>> >>> Yikes, and I see as well as network drivers they're starting the process >>> of dropping PCMCIA support: >>> >>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Drops-Old-PCMCIA-Code >> >> I have a laptop that uses PCMCIA -- a 1995 Compaq Concerto > > At the linked page the proponent says themselves "PCMCIA is almost > completely obsolete (the last computers supporting it natively were > from ~2009)". The late 2000s laptop I run Devuan on has PCMCIA. The > early 2000s laptop I'm posting from now has PCMCIA too, though I > don't try to run a current Linux distro on it anymore. I've got a > stack of PCMCIA cards within reach and they can still be purchased > new. The ethernet card in the stack is a Xircom one which I just > confirmed uses the xirc2ps driver proposed for removal at the link > in the Tom's Hardware post. If 2009 is too old for the Linux devs > then Linux isn't for me anymore. Stuff 'em, I liked Linux because I > didn't need to worry about this sort of thing. The BSDs have the > same price tag so it's time to check them out. Sigh. My main laptop has PCMCIA, and I make use of it for a sane WLAN experience... -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-26 09:41 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10skfk3$93hh$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #85931 |
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: >On 2026-04-24, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > >> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>> On 24 Apr 2026 08:35:51 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>>> As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to >>>>> maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers >>>>> completely from the mainline kernel. >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending- >>> support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug- >>> reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused- >>> systems> >>>> >>>> Yikes, and I see as well as network drivers they're starting the process >>>> of dropping PCMCIA support: >>>> >>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Drops-Old-PCMCIA-Code >>> >>> I have a laptop that uses PCMCIA -- a 1995 Compaq Concerto >> >> At the linked page the proponent says themselves "PCMCIA is almost >> completely obsolete (the last computers supporting it natively were >> from ~2009)". The late 2000s laptop I run Devuan on has PCMCIA. The >> early 2000s laptop I'm posting from now has PCMCIA too, though I >> don't try to run a current Linux distro on it anymore. I've got a >> stack of PCMCIA cards within reach and they can still be purchased >> new. The ethernet card in the stack is a Xircom one which I just >> confirmed uses the xirc2ps driver proposed for removal at the link >> in the Tom's Hardware post. If 2009 is too old for the Linux devs >> then Linux isn't for me anymore. Stuff 'em, I liked Linux because I >> didn't need to worry about this sort of thing. The BSDs have the >> same price tag so it's time to check them out. > >Sigh. My main laptop has PCMCIA, and I make use of it for a sane WLAN >experience... You can probably get a twice as fast machine for a hundred euros. Greetings Marc -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " | Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-26 08:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10skglm$1ej2r$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85932 |
On 2026-04-26, Marc Haber wrote: > Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>On 2026-04-24, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >> >>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>> On 24 Apr 2026 08:35:51 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> As a result, the Linux development community has decided that, to >>>>>> maintain its sanity, they have to start dropping those old drivers >>>>>> completely from the mainline kernel. >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-may-be-ending- >>>> support-for-older-network-drivers-due-to-influx-of-false-ai-generated-bug- >>>> reports-maintenance-has-become-too-burdensome-for-old-largely-unused- >>>> systems> >>>>> >>>>> Yikes, and I see as well as network drivers they're starting the process >>>>> of dropping PCMCIA support: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Drops-Old-PCMCIA-Code >>>> >>>> I have a laptop that uses PCMCIA -- a 1995 Compaq Concerto >>> >>> At the linked page the proponent says themselves "PCMCIA is almost >>> completely obsolete (the last computers supporting it natively were >>> from ~2009)". The late 2000s laptop I run Devuan on has PCMCIA. The >>> early 2000s laptop I'm posting from now has PCMCIA too, though I >>> don't try to run a current Linux distro on it anymore. I've got a >>> stack of PCMCIA cards within reach and they can still be purchased >>> new. The ethernet card in the stack is a Xircom one which I just >>> confirmed uses the xirc2ps driver proposed for removal at the link >>> in the Tom's Hardware post. If 2009 is too old for the Linux devs >>> then Linux isn't for me anymore. Stuff 'em, I liked Linux because I >>> didn't need to worry about this sort of thing. The BSDs have the >>> same price tag so it's time to check them out. >> >>Sigh. My main laptop has PCMCIA, and I make use of it for a sane WLAN >>experience... > > You can probably get a twice as fast machine for a hundred euros. And then it will meet a similar fate when some other technology or hardware it uses is dropped by Linux? If I wanted that kind of treatment, I'd still be using Windows. Sure, there may be cases where such an upgrade is possible, money available, but this really sounds like a warning sign. -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-26 09:28 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <wwvwlxu5dnr.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> |
| In reply to | #85934 |
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> writes: > On 2026-04-26, Marc Haber wrote: >> Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>On 2026-04-24, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>> On 24 Apr 2026 08:35:51 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>>>> Yikes, and I see as well as network drivers they're starting the >>>>>> process of dropping PCMCIA support: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Drops-Old-PCMCIA-Code They started the process at least as far back as 2023: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=9b12f050c76f090cc6d0aebe0ef76fed79ec3f15 >>>Sigh. My main laptop has PCMCIA, and I make use of it for a sane WLAN >>>experience... >> >> You can probably get a twice as fast machine for a hundred euros. > > And then it will meet a similar fate when some other technology or > hardware it uses is dropped by Linux? If I wanted that kind of > treatment, I'd still be using Windows. > > Sure, there may be cases where such an upgrade is possible, money > available, but this really sounds like a warning sign. Unmaintained code gets removed, this is not a new thing, ancient hardware has been falling out of support for many years now. If you don’t want to replace the affected hardware then your options are to maintain the code yourself or pay someone to do so. Nobody is doing it for free. -- https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-27 08:43 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <69ee94fe@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #85935 |
Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> writes: >> On 2026-04-26, Marc Haber wrote: >>> Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>On 2026-04-24, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>>> On 24 Apr 2026 08:35:51 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>>>>> Yikes, and I see as well as network drivers they're starting the >>>>>>> process of dropping PCMCIA support: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Drops-Old-PCMCIA-Code > > They started the process at least as far back as 2023: > > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=9b12f050c76f090cc6d0aebe0ef76fed79ec3f15 > >>>>Sigh. My main laptop has PCMCIA, and I make use of it for a sane WLAN >>>>experience... >>> >>> You can probably get a twice as fast machine for a hundred euros. >> >> And then it will meet a similar fate when some other technology or >> hardware it uses is dropped by Linux? If I wanted that kind of >> treatment, I'd still be using Windows. >> >> Sure, there may be cases where such an upgrade is possible, money >> available, but this really sounds like a warning sign. > > Unmaintained code gets removed, this is not a new thing, ancient > hardware has been falling out of support for many years now. True, but usually niche things like the Micro Channel bus, or industry-specific hardware. For over a decade almost everyone running Linux on a laptop would have had a PCMCIA slot. Dropping that (and other relatively recent changes and discussions) is a new indication that the developers don't care anymore about keeping old hardware going. Even though Linux has really been very good at it and is now picking up many new users on that basis since Windows has become even more extreme with their enforcement of hardware obsolescence. > If you don't want to replace the affected hardware then your > options are to maintain the code yourself or pay someone to do > so. Nobody is doing it for free. That's a bit contradictory. If I chose to maintain the code myself then I _would_ be "doing it for free". But yes the most active Linux kernel developers will be in the employ of companies that won't have much incentive to maintain drivers for old hardware. That can also manifest as an unwillingness to even work with individuals who do want to maintain old drivers for free themselves. But in the BSD world I don't imagine anyone's employed to keep NetBSD running on the Amiga or 32bit SPARC, yet people do. So I don't think it's hopeless, it's just a matter of culture. I hope some BSDs will remain accommodating of old hardware users. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-27 07:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n58gteFi681U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #85957 |
On 27 Apr 2026 08:43:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > For over a decade almost everyone running Linux on a laptop would have > had a PCMCIA slot. Yeah, but that decade was 20 years ago.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-27 11:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10snd9a$29c0d$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85960 |
On 27/04/2026 08:18, rbowman wrote: > On 27 Apr 2026 08:43:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > >> For over a decade almost everyone running Linux on a laptop would have >> had a PCMCIA slot. > > Yeah, but that decade was 20 years ago. Maybe 30 ... -- For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the very definition of slavery. Jonathan Swift
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| From | Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-27 07:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10sntjp$2f7o7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85960 |
On 4/27/26 00:18, rbowman wrote: > On 27 Apr 2026 08:43:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > >> For over a decade almost everyone running Linux on a laptop would have >> had a PCMCIA slot. > > Yeah, but that decade was 20 years ago. The age of the Pentium single Core computers. PCMCIA to Ethernet and to Wireless, and USB. Happy it is over. bliss
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-27 16:57 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10so11t$2gi6e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85969 |
On 27/04/2026 15:59, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > > > On 4/27/26 00:18, rbowman wrote: >> On 27 Apr 2026 08:43:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >> >>> For over a decade almost everyone running Linux on a laptop would have >>> had a PCMCIA slot. >> >> Yeah, but that decade was 20 years ago. > > The age of the Pentium single Core computers. PCMCIA to Ethernet > and to Wireless, and USB. > Happy it is over. > > bliss Yep. 100% agree there -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as foolish, and by the rulers as useful. (Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-27 18:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n59nj9Fnls1U8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #85969 |
On Mon, 27 Apr 2026 07:59:03 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > On 4/27/26 00:18, rbowman wrote: >> On 27 Apr 2026 08:43:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >> >>> For over a decade almost everyone running Linux on a laptop would have >>> had a PCMCIA slot. >> >> Yeah, but that decade was 20 years ago. > > The age of the Pentium single Core computers. PCMCIA to Ethernet and to > Wireless, and USB. > Happy it is over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto I have a PCMCIA CD drive for it. I should see if it will still boot for shits and giggles.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-28 04:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nMWHR.308467$U733.257286@fx16.iad> |
| In reply to | #85977 |
On 2026-04-27, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Mon, 27 Apr 2026 07:59:03 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > >> On 4/27/26 00:18, rbowman wrote: >> >>> On 27 Apr 2026 08:43:10 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>> >>>> For over a decade almost everyone running Linux on a laptop would have >>>> had a PCMCIA slot. >>> >>> Yeah, but that decade was 20 years ago. >> >> The age of the Pentium single Core computers. PCMCIA to Ethernet >> and to Wireless, and USB. >> Happy it is over. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto > > I have a PCMCIA CD drive for it. I should see if it will still boot for > shits and giggles. My first Linux box was an Acer notebook with 48M of RAM and a 1.3G hard drive. I had a PCMCIA modem which I plugged into my Motorola brick phone. It worked - and ran up a ridiculous phone bill. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-27 11:19 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10snd8b$29c0d$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #85957 |
On 26/04/2026 23:43, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > True, but usually niche things like the Micro Channel bus, or > industry-specific hardware. For over a decade almost everyone > running Linux on a laptop would have had a PCMCIA slot. Dropping > that (and other relatively recent changes and discussions) is a > new indication that the developers don't care anymore about keeping > old hardware going. Even though Linux has really been very good > at it and is now picking up many new users on that basis since > Windows has become even more extreme with their enforcement of > hardware obsolescence. > Crap. PCMCIA is at least 20 years since last made. It is already doubtful that a 20 year old machine would have enough RAM or CPU grunt to run a modern desktop effectively. Back then I was running Win XP with 2GB RAM -- "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch". Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14
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