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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #68375 > unrolled thread

What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why?

Started byBorax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
First post2025-06-05 10:12 +0000
Last post2025-06-28 14:10 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 402 — 44 participants

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Contents

  What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-05 10:12 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-05 06:44 -0400
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Michael Uplawski <michael.uplawski@uplawski.eu> - 2025-06-05 13:12 +0200
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-06-05 13:03 +0200
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-05 11:11 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-05 14:22 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Ralf Fassel <ralfixx@gmx.de> - 2025-06-05 17:16 +0200
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-06 11:54 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-06 14:43 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 02:31 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-07 02:44 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-05 21:36 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-05 15:51 +0200
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2025-06-05 14:58 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-05 16:11 +0100
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 03:06 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-09 08:51 -0400
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-05 18:00 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-06 15:37 +0200
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John McCue <jmccue@magnetar.jmcunx.com> - 2025-06-05 14:03 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-06-05 16:50 +0200
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-06 11:30 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-06-06 21:51 +0200
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 08:21 -0700
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-05 18:11 +0100
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 10:46 -0700
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-06 13:23 +0100
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-06 14:47 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-06 21:02 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 02:27 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-07 11:07 +0100
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-07 13:00 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-07 17:17 +0100
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-08 00:02 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-08 03:31 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-08 08:59 +0100
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-08 09:48 +0100
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-08 09:53 +0100
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 08:09 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-09 09:47 +0100
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 22:31 +0000
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-09 23:55 +0100
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-08 14:47 +0200
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-08 13:52 +0100
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-14 08:30 +0100
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-14 11:01 +0200
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-14 10:52 +0100
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-14 21:17 +0200
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-14 23:35 +0000
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 09:52 -0700
                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-16 18:15 +0000
                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-16 23:24 +0000
                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-06-16 18:28 -0700
                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-17 01:56 +0000
                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-17 08:33 -0700
                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-17 22:09 +0000
                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-17 16:04 -0700
                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-18 00:04 +0000
                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-18 04:28 +0000
                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-18 16:15 +0000
                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-06-18 05:30 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-14 23:30 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-15 09:23 +0200
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-15 08:59 +0000
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-14 19:38 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 08:07 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-06-09 17:40 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-09 19:53 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2025-06-09 21:34 +0000
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 22:34 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-06-12 15:10 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-12 18:12 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-10 10:00 +0100
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-10 14:16 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-07 12:54 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John McCue <jmclnx@SPAMisBADgmail.com> - 2025-06-06 01:58 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-06 00:50 -0400
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-06 11:47 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 08:06 -0700
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-06 11:46 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 08:05 -0700
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 03:23 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-09 07:59 +0200
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-09 07:20 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-09 10:01 +0200
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-09 18:20 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-09 08:59 -0400
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-05 17:37 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-06-05 12:15 -0700
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-05 20:44 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 03:21 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-09 08:56 -0400
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-09 18:00 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-10 02:09 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-10 03:25 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-10 18:11 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 23:40 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 03:25 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-09 17:58 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 22:36 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-06 00:14 -0400
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Ian <gay@sfuu.ca> - 2025-06-05 22:05 -0700
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-06 07:10 +0100
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-06 11:39 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 08:12 -0700
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-06 20:18 +0100
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-06 21:02 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-07 03:23 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 04:42 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 03:19 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-09 07:09 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? xyz@eatspam.invalid (JCJ) - 2025-06-28 14:44 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-29 00:02 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.nospam> - 2025-06-30 10:40 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-06-06 19:29 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 02:23 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-06-07 10:57 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 12:28 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 09:38 -0700
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-09 18:13 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-10 02:09 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 22:40 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-10 10:25 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-10 14:26 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 07:45 -0700
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-10 16:55 +0200
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2025-06-10 15:43 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-11 09:12 +0100
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-11 13:03 +0200
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-11 13:01 +0100
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2025-06-11 18:36 +0300
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-11 17:11 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-12 14:37 +0000
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-12 17:21 +0100
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-10 22:27 +0100
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-11 03:25 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-11 09:24 +0100
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-11 13:04 +0200
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-11 17:29 +0000
                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-11 17:46 -0400
                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-12 02:39 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-12 14:51 +0000
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-12 17:22 +0100
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-11 09:13 +0100
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-12 14:46 +0000
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 23:56 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-11 03:43 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-11 07:54 +0200
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-12 14:33 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-06-12 11:27 -0400
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-12 17:20 +0100
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-12 18:26 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-11 12:04 +0000
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-11 17:15 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-12 11:16 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-12 12:34 +0100
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 23:58 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-11 11:57 +0000
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-12 00:08 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-06-06 12:57 +0100
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-06 13:26 +0100
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-06 14:53 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-06 18:46 +0200
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-06-06 18:18 +0100
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 03:16 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-06-06 19:37 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 03:14 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-04 20:45 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-06-06 08:29 +0300
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-06-06 08:01 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-06 11:33 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-06-07 11:03 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 03:11 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-09 07:06 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Allodoxaphobia <trepidation@example.net> - 2025-06-06 13:44 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-06 18:37 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 02:20 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 03:10 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-09 08:02 +0200
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 22:43 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-10 07:38 +0200
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 07:17 +0000
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-06-10 12:43 +1000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 23:42 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-11 03:34 +0000
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-11 12:12 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-11 13:51 +0100
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-11 17:04 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-12 11:09 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-14 19:48 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-14 08:34 +0100
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-14 19:43 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 08:47 -0700
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-06-18 05:20 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-12 00:10 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-12 02:51 +0000
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-12 11:03 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-12 12:12 +0100
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@nospam.com.ii> - 2025-06-12 11:31 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-12 08:37 -0700
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-12 17:23 +0100
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-12 21:49 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-12 16:17 -0700
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-13 01:26 +0000
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-20 10:37 -0700
                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-21 07:12 +0000
                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-23 14:29 -0700
                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-24 00:13 +0000
                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-01 14:10 -0700
                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-02 00:04 +0000
                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-02 01:13 +0000
                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-02 01:26 +0000
                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-02 09:25 +0100
                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.nospam> - 2025-07-02 11:56 +0000
                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-07-02 08:35 -0400
                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-02 23:27 +0000
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.nospam> - 2025-07-03 11:37 +0000
                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-03 19:11 +0000
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 10:32 +0100
                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-05 19:09 +0000
                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-09 23:05 +0000
                                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-10 00:50 +0100
                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-10 05:47 +0000
                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-10 09:35 +0100
                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.nospam> - 2025-07-11 11:40 +0000
                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-09 23:04 +0000
                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-02 07:43 -0700
                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-02 23:21 +0000
                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-03 08:26 -0700
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2025-07-03 12:17 -0500
                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 10:41 +0100
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-05 10:17 +0000
                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 11:19 +0100
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 16:07 +0100
                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 16:23 +0100
                                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 16:25 +0100
                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-05 13:35 -0700
                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 21:59 +0100
                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-05 14:51 -0700
                                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-07 02:46 +0000
                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-05 22:40 +0000
                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-06 09:09 +0100
                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-06 10:36 +0000
                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-06 14:17 +0100
                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-06 10:52 -0700
                                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-11 19:03 +0000
                                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-11 21:03 +0000
                                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-11 21:33 +0000
                                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-12 14:30 -0700
                                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-13 04:50 +0000
                                                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-12 23:29 -0700
                                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-13 07:01 +0000
                                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-13 16:45 +0000
                                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-13 19:22 +0000
                                                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-07-14 08:34 +1000
                                                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-14 03:20 +0000
                                                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-14 09:40 +0000
                                                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2025-07-14 18:46 +0000
                                                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-14 19:27 +0000
                                                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-14 09:40 +0000
                                                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-14 19:14 +0000
                                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-07-14 11:13 -0400
                                                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-14 17:07 +0100
                                                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-14 19:44 +0000
                                                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-14 13:24 -0700
                                                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-15 18:21 +0000
                                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-13 07:32 +0000
                                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-13 12:47 +0000
                                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-07-13 17:00 +0000
                                                                                    DVD-Video DRM (was: Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-13 22:49 +0100
                                                                                      Re: DVD-Video DRM not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-07-14 14:17 +1000
                                                                                        Re: DVD-Video DRM c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-07-14 00:43 -0400
                                                                                          Re: DVD-Video DRM Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2025-07-14 17:48 +1000
                                                                                            Re: DVD-Video DRM rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-14 18:55 +0000
                                                                                          Re: DVD-Video DRM The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-14 14:56 +0100
                                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-13 16:45 +0000
                                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-13 10:03 -0700
                                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-14 00:14 +0000
                                                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-14 03:24 +0000
                                                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-07-14 11:07 -0400
                                                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-13 12:15 +0100
                                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2025-07-13 12:00 +0000
                                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-13 19:36 +0000
                                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-13 21:49 +0100
                                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-07-14 09:03 +1000
                                                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-13 16:45 +0000
                                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-13 19:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-12 10:54 +0100
                                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-07-12 08:46 -0400
                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-07 02:52 +0000
                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-07 09:07 +0100
                                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-07 22:00 +0000
                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-07 09:45 -0700
                                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-07 18:26 +0100
                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-07 10:42 -0700
                                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-07 20:34 +0000
                                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-07 18:56 +0100
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-05 19:12 +0000
                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-06 09:14 +0100
                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 12:56 +0100
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-07 02:47 +0000
                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-05 18:37 +0000
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-05 13:44 -0700
                                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-05 22:44 +0000
                                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-05 16:38 -0700
                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-06 04:46 +0000
                                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-06 06:05 +0000
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-06 09:09 +0100
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-09 23:00 +0000
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-09 23:03 +0000
                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-04 21:34 +0000
                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 09:45 +0100
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-06 06:07 +0000
                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-06 09:14 +0100
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-06 21:35 +0000
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-28 21:26 +0000
                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-06 10:41 +0000
                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-02 09:31 +0100
                                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-03 13:04 -0700
                                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-04 00:48 +0000
                                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-04 08:21 +0100
                                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-04 23:29 +0000
                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 10:05 +0100
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-09 22:57 +0000
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-30 22:15 +0000
                                                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 23:44 +0100
                                                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-07-30 23:21 -0400
                                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-07 10:20 -0700
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2025-07-07 12:53 -0500
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-09 22:58 +0000
                                                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-30 22:23 +0000
                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-06-21 10:35 +0200
                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-21 21:43 +0000
                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-23 11:49 -0700
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-14 19:57 +0000
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-16 08:43 -0700
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-16 23:26 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-04 21:19 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-05 09:42 +0100
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-05 21:37 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-05 14:53 -0700
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-06 06:08 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-12 21:45 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-06-06 17:58 +0200
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-06 18:48 +0200
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2025-06-06 17:08 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 10:47 -0700
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 01:09 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 09:03 -0700
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 22:43 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-06 18:28 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2025-06-06 18:50 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-06 20:20 +0100
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-07 03:30 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 01:06 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-09 08:03 +0200
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-09 02:49 -0400
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-09 10:02 +0200
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 22:57 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 09:02 -0700
            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 22:48 +0000
              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-10 07:41 +0200
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-10 10:17 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-10 11:28 +0100
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-10 13:01 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-10 18:13 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-06-10 12:39 +0200
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-10 11:57 +0100
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-10 12:04 +0100
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-10 13:18 +0100
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-10 12:59 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-10 18:04 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-11 00:15 +0000
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-11 12:08 +0000
                                OT: ot crap - was: What Window Manager/Desktop....... Allodoxaphobia <trepidation@example.net> - 2025-06-11 17:14 +0000
                          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-11 00:14 +0000
                            Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-06-13 01:00 +0000
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-13 01:26 +0000
                              Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-13 03:27 +0000
                                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-06-13 20:50 +0000
                                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-13 23:34 +0000
                        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-11 00:13 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-10 17:59 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-04 21:13 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-04 21:12 +0000
                    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-04 23:12 +0000
                      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-07-05 18:35 +0200
                Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-10 14:34 +0000
                  Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-10 18:48 +0100
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-09 07:15 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Chris Narkiewicz <hello@ezaquarii.com> - 2025-06-06 19:30 +0100
      Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 02:17 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-06-07 10:54 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 12:31 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-07 18:49 +0000
          Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 23:00 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-06-07 16:00 +0000
        Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 01:03 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-06-06 19:18 +0000
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-06-06 22:35 +0200
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 10:44 -0400
    Re: What Window Manager/Desktop Environment do you use, and why? xyz@eatspam.invalid (JCJ) - 2025-06-28 14:10 +0000

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#69540

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-07-13 12:15 +0100
Message-ID<10504gh$2n9pg$10@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69532
On 13/07/2025 05:50, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2025 14:30:02 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> 
>> 	Yes that is true. I do not like that but I like Amazon's behavior
>> 	less.>
> 
> Amazon is sort of the business I love to hate... Over the past 30 years
> we've gotten more big box stores. Prior to that if you wanted anything out
> of the ordinary you drove to Spokane. Even with them the selection is
> limited in a small (100,000+) market. RatShack wasn't much but not there
> is no source for electronics. I prefer New Balance shoes in non-garish
> colors and I've sometimes failed to find any in my size. Hello Amazon!
> 
> The best example is when I bought a Toyota Yaris in 2007. It was a new
> model and didn't have a radio. I went to the leading sound people in town.
> They didn't have a dash kit and had to order it. Days passed and when the
> shipment came in from their supplier, no dash kit. They tried another
> supplier. Most days passed and again no kit. They said they could possibly
> modify one.
> 
> I got the Metra number from the Yaris forum, ordered the kit, a radio, and
> the harness adapter from Amazon and it was on my deck in two days. I
> installed it in an hour.
> 
> Even more ridiculous during covid cat food was in short supply in the
> local stores. I ordered a case of 40 cans of Purina from Amazon with again
> the same fast delivery. I put it on a subscription so the cats are happy
> to see an Amazon truck roll up.
> 
> Back around 2000 when Amazon was mostly books and CDs I had very mixed
> success, particularly with the CDs. They often advertised items the didn't
> have and couldn't get so weeks would pass before they canceled the order.
> At that time I mostly used B&N. Amazon has come a long way particularly
> considering the many online schemes that failed after dotcom.
> 
> Walmart is another success but I rarely go there because of the quality of
> a lot of their stuff. I used to wear Herman Survivors boots. The company
> went through several hands and Walmart finally bought the trademark.
> They're now cheap Chinese crap. Other name brands have special Walmart
> SKUs that are made to a price.
> 
> 
> 
The sad fact of life is that in general it is cheaper and easier to 
order 99% of stuff online, and have access to better prices and ranges 
of stock than any high street store or out of town shed could possibly 
deliver. Even the 'I need it now' problem has been overtaken by same day 
or next day delivery.

Almost the only things I buy in town are diesel for the car, and car 
parts - tyres etc - and food from the food shops - mainly the supermarket

All the specialist shops have gone and are now on ebay or amazon.

Amazon has simply realised this and done a better job than almost anyone 
else, although most companies now have a 'ship it direct' service that 
is cheaper than amazon.

In fact people don't seem to have realised that the very reason for UK 
market towns has all but disappeared.  And the specialist 'sheds' - the 
tools and materials and odd other parts - have also been replaced by 
online. Faster in the UK than the USA I think. Probably driven by the 
lack of cheap space. Taxes on businesses in towns are horrendous,and so 
os car parking costs.  so they simply move online.

Towns are now dormitory towns with venues, cafes, money laundering 
barbers , mobile phone  and the odd food supermarket only. And a few 
upmarket clothes places. And chemists (drug stores) to fill your 
national health prescriptions at. And that is IT.

Everything else is online. It works better.



-- 
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

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#69541

Fromdoctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor)
Date2025-07-13 12:00 +0000
Message-ID<1050749$4tn$16@gallifrey.nk.ca>
In reply to#69540
XFCE on FreeBSD!
-- 
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;
All I want to hear from JEsus Christ is WEll done Good and Faithful servant

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#69550

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-07-13 19:36 +0000
Message-ID<mdig6qFgn43U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#69540
On Sun, 13 Jul 2025 12:15:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Amazon has simply realised this and done a better job than almost anyone
> else, although most companies now have a 'ship it direct' service that
> is cheaper than amazon.

I have Amazon Prime so shipping is 'free'. Since they've built a local 
distribution center a surprising number of items are next day. The first 
time I saw 'arriving tomorrow' I was skeptical.

The page often has a 'may be cheaper from other sellers' but unless the 
other seller has free shipping the total cost is often more. 

I've never used the ship it direct but I have used the ship it to the 
store and pick it up option several times. Ironically years ago I looked 
for a computer book in the brick and mortar Barnes & Noble store. They 
didn't have it in stock but could order it for me. I went to their website 
and bought it 10% cheaper than the in store price with free shipping. 
Great business model.

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#69553

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-07-13 21:49 +0100
Message-ID<105165i$2u46l$18@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69550
On 13/07/2025 20:36, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2025 12:15:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> Amazon has simply realised this and done a better job than almost anyone
>> else, although most companies now have a 'ship it direct' service that
>> is cheaper than amazon.
> 
> I have Amazon Prime so shipping is 'free'. Since they've built a local
> distribution center a surprising number of items are next day. The first
> time I saw 'arriving tomorrow' I was skeptical.
> 
> The page often has a 'may be cheaper from other sellers' but unless the
> other seller has free shipping the total cost is often more.
> 
> I've never used the ship it direct but I have used the ship it to the
> store and pick it up option several times. Ironically years ago I looked
> for a computer book in the brick and mortar Barnes & Noble store. They
> didn't have it in stock but could order it for me. I went to their website
> and bought it 10% cheaper than the in store price with free shipping.
> Great business model.

I get stuff shipped from China in under a week sometimes.

Amazes the shit out of me.

Not sure about the gummint, but the average chinese person is incredibly 
hard working and smart, if not 100% honest ....:-)

-- 
Any fool can believe in principles -  and most of them do!


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#69558

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2025-07-14 09:03 +1000
Message-ID<68743b58@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#69550
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> I've never used the ship it direct but I have used the ship it to the 
> store and pick it up option several times.

I did my first one of those on Friday. That is placing the order
via a large chain's website for pick-up, not placed manually with
a small business via email. The website was a clunky nightmare that
wouldn't send account confirmation emails to two of three addresses
I tried but _has_ since sent spam to all of them. The website said
14 days to pick up items after they arrive, but their email said I
only had five. I went in seven days later and it took the bloke
5-10min of poking around on his computer to sort out the paperwork
while another bloke hunted out the back trying to find my order. To
save $27 postage it's arguably not worth over an hour's round trip
to the store and back, but I'd likely have to go to the local post
office to pick up the parcel anyway since they won't deliver the
damn things out here anymore, and I wanted to confirm it was really
what I wanted since one thing I ordered didn't have a photo on the
webpage.

Generally I'm not a convert, but it did allow me to buy during
one of their suspiciously-regular snap 25% off everything sales, so
on that basis it was worthwhile. Now they've got me with $10 credit
which I wasn't allowed to spend during the sale like I'd planned.
Into the world of retail mind games I go...

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#69545

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2025-07-13 16:45 +0000
Message-ID<loRcQ.426338$sKi9.77917@fx14.iad>
In reply to#69532
On 2025-07-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> Even more ridiculous during covid cat food was in short supply in the 
> local stores. I ordered a case of 40 cans of Purina from Amazon with again 
> the same fast delivery. I put it on a subscription so the cats are happy 
> to see an Amazon truck roll up.

Every time I see an Amazon truck roll up (my wife is a big fan),
I think of the song "Wells Fargo Wagon" from "The Music Man".
The lyrics are perfect.

I'm still fighting the urge to call it "the penis van".
What ever were they thinking when they came up with that logo?

Still, it's hard to argue with their service...

> Walmart is another success but I rarely go there because of the quality of 
> a lot of their stuff. I used to wear Herman Survivors boots. The company 
> went through several hands and Walmart finally bought the trademark. 
> They're now cheap Chinese crap. Other name brands have special Walmart 
> SKUs that are made to a price. 

I'll occasionally go into a Wal-Mart, but I do it quickly
and wash my hands afterwards.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#69551

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-07-13 19:40 +0000
Message-ID<mdigd5Fgn43U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#69545
On Sun, 13 Jul 2025 16:45:05 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> I'll occasionally go into a Wal-Mart, but I do it quickly and wash my
> hands afterwards.

It's another world...  This town is very outdoors oriented and most people 
look like they take their dogs for a 10 miles walk every day. Except at 
Walmart...  The place is a spudbutt magnet.

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#69514

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-07-12 10:54 +0100
Message-ID<104tbcs$22i42$11@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69510
On 11/07/2025 20:03, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> For lay
> people, I mean. For companies, HP provide a completely different sort of
> computers which is more friendly with Linux.
I second that.
My last few acquisitions have been ex corporate HP laptops and desktops.

Absolutely fine bog standard sort of machines. A maintenance engineers 
dream.

All ran linux immediately.


-- 
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the 
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

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#69524

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2025-07-12 08:46 -0400
Message-ID<104tleb$24u92$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69510
Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> Le 06-07-2025, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> a écrit :
>>
>> On 7/6/25 03:36, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, that's why I said "on modern computers". By that I mean mostly
>>> laptop and computers sold as is. I don't mean computers assemble by the
>>> end user. When someone comes with a very old computer, to old to run
>>> Windows on it anymore, it's a piece of cake to install Linux on it. But
>>> with recent computers, it can be really tricky. Mostly depending on the
>>> brands. With a thinkpad, it's easy, with most of what's sold in big
>>> sellers stores, not so much.
>>
>> 	Well is 2019 a new computer?
>
> From what I see, it's a little bit before computers stated to provide a
> more and more difficult way to remove Windows.
>
>> I go mine refurbished from Walmart 
>
> I don't know Walmart. I heard about it, of course, but it's not enough
> for me to have an idea about its political vision. I don't know if they
> try to help Linux on computers or not.
>
> From what I see, I'd say Dell is not the worst. HP is far worse. For lay
> people, I mean. For companies, HP provide a completely different sort of
> computers which is more friendly with Linux.

At work they gave me an HP zBook. It was very nice, and ran Linux quite well,
until corporate IT discovered it and zapped it. :-(

-- 
Most non-Catholics know that the Catholic schools are rendering a greater
service to our nation than the public schools in which subversive textbooks
have been used, in which Communist-minded teachers have taught, and from
whose classrooms Christ and even God Himself are barred.
		-- from "Our Sunday Visitor", an American-Catholic newspaper, 1949

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#69447

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-07-07 02:52 +0000
Message-ID<104fcor$2n4ir$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69366
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 16:25:24 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> I’ve generally not needed to disable secure boot - most Linux
> distributions have had signed kernels for a long time now.

It’s not clear what the point of Secure Boot is any more. Microsoft
was supposed to be able to revoke signing keys for compromised
software, but it turns out this causes too many problems, so it is
often not done. If holes cannot be patched, then why bother with all
the rigmarole?

Case in point
<https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/03/unkillable-uefi-malware-bypassing-secure-boot-enabled-by-unpatchable-windows-flaw/>:

    Despite Microsoft releasing new patched software, the vulnerable
    signed binaries have yet to be added to the UEFI revocation list
    that flags boot files that should no longer be trusted. Microsoft
    has not explained the reason, but it likely has to do with
    hundreds of vulnerable bootloaders that remain in use today. If
    those signed binaries are revoked, millions of devices will no
    longer work. As a result, fully updated devices remain vulnerable
    because attackers can simply replace patched software with the
    older, vulnerable software.

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#69448

FromRichard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-07-07 09:07 +0100
Message-ID<wwvtt3oh1a2.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to#69447
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> I’ve generally not needed to disable secure boot - most Linux
>> distributions have had signed kernels for a long time now.
>
> It’s not clear what the point of Secure Boot is any more. Microsoft
> was supposed to be able to revoke signing keys for compromised
> software, but it turns out this causes too many problems, so it is
> often not done. If holes cannot be patched, then why bother with all
> the rigmarole?

Detrusting keys is under end user control (or administrator control in
managed devices), and it looks like you can stop trusting the 2011 CA
once you’ve verified that doing so won’t stop your computer booting. IMO
that’s a reasonable approach here, better than stopping computers
working after a (perhaps automated) update.

Being able to revoke the impacted boot loaders may sound better, but
apparently there’s too many to fit. This limitation does seem like a
flaw in Secure Boot; I can see ways to improve this detail (put the
revocation list in the ESP and store only its hash securely) but in
general revocation lists are awkward things to manage at best.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#69470

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-07-07 22:00 +0000
Message-ID<104hg2j$3474l$10@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69448
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 09:07:33 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> ... but in general revocation lists are awkward things to manage at
> best.

Web browser developers and issuers of TLS certs seem to be coming to this 
conclusion, hence the proposals to give up on explicit revocation, and 
move to very short cert validity lifetimes instead, with automatic 
renewals so users don’t have to worry about it.

I don’t think this is practical for Secure Boot ...

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#69458

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2025-07-07 09:45 -0700
Message-ID<20250707094542.000030e6@gmail.com>
In reply to#69364
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 16:07:17 +0100
Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> I was wondering what mechanism Stephane thinks Microsoft use to ‘lock’
> Windows onto a computer. While it’s certainly possible to create a
> device that resists unauthorized upgrades, modern PCs aren’t normally
> it.

There was a thread on the topic 'round here some months ago - but it
wasn't MS, but rather HP that has taken to locking down at least their
consumer PCs such that it's extremely difficult (if not literally
impossible) to install a non-OEM OS on it. (They've taken similar
measures on the hardware end, too - proprietary PSUs that you can't
replace with a standard part, as we learned the hard way with our
receptionist's PC a couple years back.) Even on Windows, they're the
worst of the worst with loading in crapware that they pull every
available trick to reinstall when you remove it.

I don't know what it is that they get out of it, but evidently
*someone* at the Fiorina Funhouse has a vested interest in being even
more nakedly anti-user than most PC vendors.

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#69460

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-07-07 18:26 +0100
Message-ID<104h00d$316tn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69458
On 07/07/2025 17:45, John Ames wrote:
> There was a thread on the topic 'round here some months ago - but it
> wasn't MS, but rather HP that has taken to locking down at least their
> consumer PCs such that it's extremely difficult (if not literally
> impossible) to install a non-OEM OS on it. (They've taken similar
> measures on the hardware end, too - proprietary PSUs that you can't
> replace with a standard part, as we learned the hard way with our
> receptionist's PC a couple years back.) Even on Windows, they're the
> worst of the worst with loading in crapware that they pull every
> available trick to reinstall when you remove it.
Both my laptop and my desktop are ex corporate HP PCs.
Both run Mint no problem

-- 
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the 
urge to rule it.”
– H. L. Mencken

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#69463

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2025-07-07 10:42 -0700
Message-ID<20250707104248.000009ad@gmail.com>
In reply to#69460
On Mon, 7 Jul 2025 18:26:37 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Both my laptop and my desktop are ex corporate HP PCs.
> Both run Mint no problem

Yeah - I don't know when it started or whether "business-line" products
are affected, just what I've seen in the field with small businesses
that invariably buy the cheapest-of-the-cheap off the shelf at Wal-Mart
(and are, invariably, shocked when it's under-specced and an absolute
dog; must be a problem with our software!)

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#69466

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-07-07 20:34 +0000
Message-ID<md2p9oFq1sjU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#69463
On Mon, 7 Jul 2025 10:42:48 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Jul 2025 18:26:37 +0100 The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Both my laptop and my desktop are ex corporate HP PCs.
>> Both run Mint no problem
> 
> Yeah - I don't know when it started or whether "business-line" products
> are affected, just what I've seen in the field with small businesses
> that invariably buy the cheapest-of-the-cheap off the shelf at Wal-Mart
> (and are, invariably, shocked when it's under-specced and an absolute
> dog; must be a problem with our software!)

In the early 2000s if a site asked what they should buy, the reply was 
'Any name brand computers will be fine.' eMachines had about 10% of the 
market so it was 'name brand'. That didn't work out well. After that we 
were more specific and preferred brands that started with 'D'.

And, yes, the problem was our software, of course. When setting up a 
Windows Service you list and services that service depends on and the 
Services Manager takes care of the orderly startup. I don't know how 
eMachines managed to screw it up but some of our services failed to start 
because they were fired off before their dependencies like the portmapper. 
I wound up writing a separate program that essentially looked over the 
Service Manager's should and fixed the screw ups.  Oddly what was 'our 
problem' only happened on eMachines.

We also had problems with HP Kayaks but that was more from Fiorina 
managing to shove both HP and Compaq into roles outside of their 
expertise.


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#69465

FromRichard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-07-07 18:56 +0100
Message-ID<wwva55fvq9c.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
In reply to#69458
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> writes:
> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> I was wondering what mechanism Stephane thinks Microsoft use to
>> ‘lock’ Windows onto a computer. While it’s certainly possible to
>> create a device that resists unauthorized upgrades, modern PCs aren’t
>> normally it.
>
> There was a thread on the topic 'round here some months ago - but it
> wasn't MS, but rather HP that has taken to locking down at least their
> consumer PCs such that it's extremely difficult (if not literally
> impossible) to install a non-OEM OS on it.

I don’t retain articles for months. Anyway the question was the
mechanism, not which vendor someone had trouble with. At the moment
there’s no real information to go on here.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#69377

FromStéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
Date2025-07-05 19:12 +0000
Message-ID<68697910$0$12916$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
In reply to#69351
Le 05-07-2025, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> a écrit :
> On 05/07/2025 11:17, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>> 
>> For Windows, it's not just a default. On a modern computer, it can be
>> almost impossible to remove Windows and put Linux on it. It's locked by
>> Microsoft, so on one owns computer claiming that Linux exist as an
>> alternative is just a lie.
>> 
> I have successfully erased it from all my machines.

Good for you. Some people are not so lucky.

> AS long as you can get to BIOS settings to restore sanity fir a linux 
> install it's a piece of cake.

No. On some computers, it can be easy, on others (mostly on laptops) it
can be very difficult. Sometime to be able to access the UEFI you have
to start Windows and access it from Windows. In the end, every computer
I saw has been able to run Linux (not always in dual boot with Windows
and Windows had to be removed). But it can be far from the piece of cake
you claim and no beginner could be able to do it.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#69422

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-07-06 09:14 +0100
Message-ID<104db8a$220mr$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69377
On 05/07/2025 20:12, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 05-07-2025, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> a écrit :
>> On 05/07/2025 11:17, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>
>>> For Windows, it's not just a default. On a modern computer, it can be
>>> almost impossible to remove Windows and put Linux on it. It's locked by
>>> Microsoft, so on one owns computer claiming that Linux exist as an
>>> alternative is just a lie.
>>>
>> I have successfully erased it from all my machines.
> 
> Good for you. Some people are not so lucky.
> 
>> AS long as you can get to BIOS settings to restore sanity fir a linux
>> install it's a piece of cake.
> 
> No. On some computers, it can be easy, on others (mostly on laptops) it
> can be very difficult. Sometime to be able to access the UEFI you have
> to start Windows and access it from Windows. In the end, every computer
> I saw has been able to run Linux (not always in dual boot with Windows
> and Windows had to be removed). But it can be far from the piece of cake
> you claim and no beginner could be able to do it.
> 
Utter bollocks.
I did have to run windows on one machine to re jig the Bios - hardly 
earth shattering - until I found a manual on line and held the correct 
key down during boot.
The 'explainingComputers,com' video on installing windows today was way 
more complicated than any modern linux install.



-- 
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

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#69352

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-07-05 12:56 +0100
Message-ID<104b3tg$1fn25$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#69350
On 2025-07-05, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Le 05-07-2025, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> a écrit :
>>
>> I'm not accusing FLOSS of some monopoly, I'm accusing *you* of
>> describing as "choice" something which isn't really choice in practice,
>> or that doesn't really address the issue.
>>
>> Let me explain it again:
>>
>> - Somebody complains because FLOSS DE or GUI toolkit xyz does not allow
>>   turning off feature abc.
>>
>> - You say that there is choice because that person can use another
>>   DE, another GUI toolkit or nothing at all.
>>
>> - The person still cannot choose to do what they want in that DE or GUI
>>   toolkit.
>>
[...]
>
> No, the situation is absolutely not similar. The WM/DE provided by
> default by a distro is only a default. It's very easy to switch from
> DE/WM to another DE/WM and back to the first one.

The key part of my criticism is that "switch [...] to *another*" is not
the kind of choice the user is looking for.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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