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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #66786 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-04-02 05:34 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-04-05 20:09 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 58 — 8 participants |
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Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-02 05:34 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-02 11:42 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-02 19:08 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-03 06:26 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-03 18:42 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-03 16:34 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-04 00:50 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 07:53 -0700
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-04 19:11 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 04:39 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-05 20:20 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 18:46 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-06 01:48 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 23:01 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-04-06 01:08 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-06 02:31 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-06 17:35 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-06 00:32 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-04-07 03:09 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-06 23:47 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-07 12:06 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-07 15:53 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-07 12:02 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-07 07:13 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-07 12:26 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-07 07:42 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-07 12:55 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-06 01:47 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-06 02:34 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 22:49 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 02:00 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-05 07:46 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 04:21 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-05 11:37 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-05 20:05 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 19:47 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2025-04-06 00:14 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-06 01:53 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 23:42 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-06 17:35 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-06 22:13 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-06 02:27 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-06 11:57 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 22:47 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-07 07:47 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-07 05:13 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-07 17:50 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-06 01:52 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-05 23:34 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-06 17:35 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-06 22:29 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-06 22:18 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-06 02:25 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-04-07 03:16 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-04-07 00:35 -0400
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-07 06:09 +0000
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-05 11:20 +0100
Re: Past Blast - "Wonder Woman 1984" - Corp Guy Using PET rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-05 20:09 +0000
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-07 12:06 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vt0bjj$3ikfd$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #66988 |
On 07/04/2025 04:47, c186282 wrote: > Some like to think Trump and friends don't understand > all this - but it's self-delusion. Trump is playing > HARD, real, politics here. He was fucked-over by the > WokieComs ... NOW he's gonna destroy them. Bless! Trump is indubitably a low IQ narcissist. He has picked up a few ideas along the way - ideas that he doesn't understand like 'tarriffs' and so on. But such plan as he does have is cribbed straight out of Project 2025, which is similar to communism in that it wants to centralise power in the hands of a favoured few, and implement top down strategies of political control. That is morality veers more towards the Christian Right and less towards the Woke left is merely the icing on the cake. -- "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is true: it is true because it is powerful." Lucas Bergkamp
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-07 15:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PxSIP.1552218$OrR5.1312485@fx18.iad> |
| In reply to | #67000 |
On 2025-04-07, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > But such plan as he does have is cribbed straight out of Project 2025, But but but... he says he doesn't know anything about Project 2025... > which is similar to communism in that it wants to centralise power in > the hands of a favoured few, and implement top down strategies of > political control. As someone once said in a thread long ago, they all meet somewhere around on the dark side. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-07 12:02 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vt0bci$3ikfd$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #66984 |
On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote: > Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players' > remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave > around the ones that were calling the shots. Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well. Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill the weeds. -- "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is true: it is true because it is powerful." Lucas Bergkamp
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-07 07:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <FF-dnR8EPp_wLm76nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #66999 |
On 4/7/25 7:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote: >> Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players' >> remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave >> around the ones that were calling the shots. > > Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well. > Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill the > weeds. But, given how Big G is structured, is there much of a CHOICE ? In any case, the pawns, the shields, are being eliminated. The important pieces are next. The WokieComs spent decades stuffing govt positions with their supplicants, and they have to GO. That was the WokieCom IDEA ... put their people into a structure where it was "impossible" to ever get rid of them. Not.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-07 12:26 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vt0cos$3ikfd$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #67002 |
On 07/04/2025 12:13, c186282 wrote: > On 4/7/25 7:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote: >>> Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players' >>> remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave >>> around the ones that were calling the shots. >> >> Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well. >> Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill the >> weeds. > > But, given how Big G is structured, is there > much of a CHOICE ? > > In any case, the pawns, the shields, are being > eliminated. The important pieces are next. The > WokieComs spent decades stuffing govt positions > with their supplicants, and they have to GO. > > That was the WokieCom IDEA ... put their people > into a structure where it was "impossible" to > ever get rid of them. > > Not. > If a field is more weeds than crop then cost benefit says plough it all up. But if it isn't, then it doesn't. Trouble is Cost benefit is not something Trump or any of his acolytes understand. They think in binary terms. Trump Good, state Bad. I hear Elon is now pissed off at Trumps 'big beautiful tariffs' that have crashed his companies stock price - and hence his personal wealth - by at least 50%. I suppose it is a methodology that stupid people can employ effectively. Smash everything and see what you miss, and then spend someone else's money to put it back. > > -- "If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the news paper, you are mis-informed." Mark Twain
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-07 07:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <qRCdncE16rbxJ276nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #67004 |
On 4/7/25 7:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 07/04/2025 12:13, c186282 wrote: >> On 4/7/25 7:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote: >>>> Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players' >>>> remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave >>>> around the ones that were calling the shots. >>> >>> Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well. >>> Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill >>> the weeds. >> >> But, given how Big G is structured, is there >> much of a CHOICE ? >> >> In any case, the pawns, the shields, are being >> eliminated. The important pieces are next. The >> WokieComs spent decades stuffing govt positions >> with their supplicants, and they have to GO. >> >> That was the WokieCom IDEA ... put their people >> into a structure where it was "impossible" to >> ever get rid of them. >> >> Not. >> > If a field is more weeds than crop then cost benefit says plough it all up. > But if it isn't, then it doesn't. Hard to tell the crop from the crabgrass unfortunately. > Trouble is Cost benefit is not something Trump or any of his acolytes > understand. They think in binary terms. > > Trump Good, state Bad. Trump Good ! State Bad ! Trump Good ! State Bad ! Trump Good ! State Bad ! Sorry, haven't been hearing many chanting that ... > I hear Elon is now pissed off at Trumps 'big beautiful tariffs' that > have crashed his companies stock price - and hence his personal wealth - > by at least 50%. Aww ... he's still richer than shit ...... > I suppose it is a methodology that stupid people can employ effectively. > Smash everything and see what you miss, and then spend someone else's > money to put it back. Ah ... so Americans are all single-digit IQ types .....
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-07 12:55 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vt0efv$3ikfd$10@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #67005 |
On 07/04/2025 12:42, c186282 wrote: > On 4/7/25 7:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 07/04/2025 12:13, c186282 wrote: >>> On 4/7/25 7:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>> On 07/04/2025 04:09, Rich wrote: >>>>> Right now, the 'pawns' are being fired, while the 'chess players' >>>>> remain around. That's hardly clearing the "deep state", to leave >>>>> around the ones that were calling the shots. >>>> >>>> Oh the shot callers are in the firing line as well. >>>> Bit it is as stupid as ploughing in a whole crop in order to kill >>>> the weeds. >>> >>> But, given how Big G is structured, is there >>> much of a CHOICE ? >>> >>> In any case, the pawns, the shields, are being >>> eliminated. The important pieces are next. The >>> WokieComs spent decades stuffing govt positions >>> with their supplicants, and they have to GO. >>> >>> That was the WokieCom IDEA ... put their people >>> into a structure where it was "impossible" to >>> ever get rid of them. >>> >>> Not. >>> >> If a field is more weeds than crop then cost benefit says plough it >> all up. >> But if it isn't, then it doesn't. > > Hard to tell the crop from the crabgrass unfortunately. > It is when you are a lazy moron >> Trouble is Cost benefit is not something Trump or any of his acolytes >> understand. They think in binary terms. >> >> Trump Good, state Bad. > > Trump Good ! State Bad ! > Trump Good ! State Bad ! > Trump Good ! State Bad ! > > Sorry, haven't been hearing many chanting that ... > They do it in private on their knees at home. in front of a picture of the Orange Jesus >> I hear Elon is now pissed off at Trumps 'big beautiful tariffs' that >> have crashed his companies stock price - and hence his personal wealth >> - by at least 50%. > > Aww ... he's still richer than shit ...... > That's not the point is it? >> I suppose it is a methodology that stupid people can employ >> effectively. Smash everything and see what you miss, and then spend >> someone else's money to put it back. > > Ah ... so Americans are all single-digit IQ types ..... I never used to think so. Greedy, selfish, very ignorant, uncultured and totally lacking in class, yes, but stupid? Not until now, no. -- If I had all the money I've spent on drink... ..I'd spend it on drink. Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-06 01:47 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vssiv7$3ki2e$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #66913 |
On 05/04/2025 21:20, rbowman wrote: > On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda though of >> M$ as a hero company back then, >> all the good tools. Then ......... > > PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that they > sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into hardware didn't > always turn out well. > > IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to Global and > are 'rebalancing'. > > https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/ > > Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on the > tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the world. I thought it was nearer 12 million... -- There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons that sound good. Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-06 02:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m5e7huFdhhuU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #66927 |
On Sun, 6 Apr 2025 01:47:35 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 05/04/2025 21:20, rbowman wrote: >> On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote: >> >>> The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda though >>> of M$ as a hero company back then, >>> all the good tools. Then ......... >> >> PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that >> they sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into >> hardware didn't always turn out well. >> >> IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to Global >> and are 'rebalancing'. >> >> https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/ >> >> Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on >> the tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the >> world. > > I thought it was nearer 12 million... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/01/07/what-the-data-says- about-federal-workers/ That would be a good trick but it's not a bad idea.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-05 22:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <77OdnTPESLQudmz6nZ2dnZfqnPsAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #66927 |
On 4/5/25 8:47 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 05/04/2025 21:20, rbowman wrote: >> On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:39:30 -0400, c186282 wrote: >> >>> The compilers offered by IBM/(M$) were very good. We kinda though of >>> M$ as a hero company back then, >>> all the good tools. Then ......... >> >> PCs were thought of as an IBM product. It wasn't until Windows that they >> sort of became associated with M$ even if MS's forays into hardware >> didn't >> always turn out well. >> >> IBM seems to be shuffling out the door. They sold their fabs to Global >> and >> are 'rebalancing'. >> >> https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/27/ibm_cuts_jobs_in_us/ >> >> Funny how IBM can fire 12,000 people and it gets a brief headline on the >> tech sites. Fire 12,000 government drones and it's the end of the world. > > I thought it was nearer 12 million... Govt ? Let's HOPE :-) The size of bureaucracies INCREASES FOREVER if left to themselves.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-05 02:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <pa2dnTX2hoJwW236nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #66877 |
On 4/4/25 10:53 AM, John Ames wrote: > On 4 Apr 2025 00:50:26 GMT > rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > >> The version I bought was for CP/M. TBH I wasn't all that interested >> in Pascal but I wanted to see what you could possibly get for $49.95. > > That was the key: fast, usable, and *way* cheaper than anything else > on the market. (Microsoft C - really just a re-branded Lattice C - cost > *ten times as much,* the same year TP rolled out.) Whether Pascal was > your favorite programming language or not, that made a *big* difference > to scrappy independent developers and prospective enterpreneurs. Oh, I remember ... those "big name" compilers were gawdawfully EXPENSIVE. Most people, even small biz, just couldn't AFFORD them . TP was cheap and fast and almost infinitely capable. Was also intrigued by the ads, price and just HAD to buy a copy. Was NEVER disappointed. Still use Pascal a fair bit to this day - my favorite lang actually. For Linux ... FPC+Lazarus is a killer combo. The boss DID buy MS/IBM Pascal - the multi-pass compiler. That's where I fell in love with Dr. Nick's vision. Still HAVE that, in a VM, and DO write little things in it from time to time just for fun. BUT ... cannot remember if the early TPs supported CP/M-86 or real Z80 CP/M ...... As noted, you CAN still buy Z80 compatible units, most little larger than a PI. They're still good, usable, systems and CP/M is crude, but yet again very usable. With something like TP, such things would be MUCH more usable. I think the Z80 is one of those "unkillable" platforms - expect to see the Z80 paradigm around for another 50 years. "Just Enough". As for the original subject ... alas the 6502 stuff DOES seem to have died. It was also a pretty good chip fam, widely used, but for some reason didn't have the lifeforce of the Z80. The competing 6809, kinda also dead - not even sure MicroWare OS-9 actually supports the 6809 anymore. DO hate to see good chips die ... but not ALL can survive the ages. As for OS-9, would LOVE to see it developed into a Linux/Unix competitor ... has much of the same look&feel, but more efficient.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-05 07:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m5c5f4F35tlU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #66886 |
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 02:00:11 -0400, c186282 wrote: > BUT ... cannot remember if the early TPs supported CP/M-86 or real > Z80 CP/M ...... CP/M-80 was supported. > As for the original subject ... alas the 6502 stuff DOES seem to have > died. It was also a pretty good chip fam, widely used, but for some > reason didn't have the lifeforce of the Z80. https://eater.net/6502 The variant he uses is a static core so you can clock it step by step. In the video he does a cute thing by tying data lines to create a no-op that then cycles through successive addresses. THe use of an Arduino as sort of a logic analyzer is interesting too. I don't need another project. https://www.mouser.com/new/western-design-center/wdc-w65c02s/ Peddle ate Motorola's lunch but later business decisions weren't stellar. For sort of a mixed metaphor https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/kim-uno-summary-c1uuh or if you are a purist https://www.tindie.com/products/kim1/pal-1-a-mos-6502-powered-computer- kit/
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-05 04:21 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <gmmdnfQoUay9dW36nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #66887 |
On 4/5/25 3:46 AM, rbowman wrote: > On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 02:00:11 -0400, c186282 wrote: > > >> BUT ... cannot remember if the early TPs supported CP/M-86 or real >> Z80 CP/M ...... > > CP/M-80 was supported. Excellent ! Didn't remember. Early TP can be had, free, online now. V3 was most useful, but even the first two were more than OK. Did a LOT of software using those. V3 added good IBM-PC graphics capability ... not very useful for Z80 stuff. >> As for the original subject ... alas the 6502 stuff DOES seem to have >> died. It was also a pretty good chip fam, widely used, but for some >> reason didn't have the lifeforce of the Z80. > > https://eater.net/6502 > > The variant he uses is a static core so you can clock it step by step. In > the video he does a cute thing by tying data lines to create a no-op that > then cycles through successive addresses. THe use of an Arduino as sort of > a logic analyzer is interesting too. I don't need another project. Haven't had an eprom programmer in a long time alas ... > https://www.mouser.com/new/western-design-center/wdc-w65c02s/ > > Peddle ate Motorola's lunch but later business decisions weren't stellar. > For sort of a mixed metaphor > > https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/kim-uno-summary-c1uuh "Management" ruins more biz than anything else. > or if you are a purist > > https://www.tindie.com/products/kim1/pal-1-a-mos-6502-powered-computer- > kit/ At THIS point, I'd rather fool with a Z80/clone board, something that will run CP/M-80. Alas even a floppy interface - or FDDs for that matter - are getting hard to come by. Boards may have to have a trick for using thumb drives and PRETENDING they're floppies .... not strictly purist, but, these days, you've gotta use what you've gotta use. There isn't a huge retro market, the world is orientated for the newest/latest whiz-bang stuff. And just THIS week ... if in the USA you may not want to buy anything that comes from China. Expect a "Bolivian re-sell/brand market" soon, but not THIS week. I'd buy a TRS-80 model III or IV ... but had some bad experiences with e-Bay ......
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-05 11:37 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vsr14i$20tbs$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #66888 |
On 05/04/2025 09:21, c186282 wrote: > And just THIS week ... if in the USA you may not want to > buy anything that comes from China. Expect a "Bolivian > re-sell/brand market" soon, but not THIS week. Import the boards from china,. put them in a box in Birmingham UK and put a sticker on saying 'Made in Britain'... Low tariff. Reminds me of working in a very 'protected' economy and under embargo as well. South Africa 1980. Got a call from a customs agent. Who clearly was only there to make up the quota of Afrikaaners. Afirikanners epak English with a heavy redneck accent "i've god these things ere, marked 'capacidors', but Icant tell what cetegory they are in. " Well what categories have you got?" I have capacidors, Industrial 'eavy duty, capacidors electronic components, capacidors car components or capacidor radio spare parts" "Which one carries the least duty?" "Capacidor, radio spare parts". "Well that's good because that's what they are!" Paper work and import duty solved! It doesn't take much to fool a Trump, let's face it. You need to be as smart as Putin to run a proper oligarchy. And even he has fallen prey to his own methodology. When people who tell you what you don't want to hear fall off balconies, you never get the truth... The road to hell is paved with unintended consequences. Which is why true conservatism is never radical or sweeping. It nibbles away at what clearly isn't working, and leaves only what has stood the test of time. It never takes a chainsaw to everything -- "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch". Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-05 20:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m5dgomF9mvkU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #66888 |
On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:21:51 -0400, c186282 wrote: > Haven't had an eprom programmer in a long time alas ... It should be easy to build one with a Pico or Arduino. I built one using the parallel port on my Osborne 1 CP/M box. It was very disappointing when the i386 came out and made tweaking the hardware a PITA. > At THIS point, I'd rather fool with a Z80/clone board, something that > will run CP/M-80. Alas even a floppy interface - or FDDs for that > matter - are getting hard to come by. Boards may have to have a trick > for using thumb drives and PRETENDING they're floppies .... not > strictly purist, but, these days, you've gotta use what you've gotta > use. There isn't a huge retro market, the world is orientated for the > newest/latest whiz-bang stuff. I'd go that way too since the Z80 was what I worked with, along with 8080s, 8085s and Intel uCs. 6502s and 680Xs seemed a little strange to me. > And just THIS week ... if in the USA you may not want to buy anything > that comes from China. Expect a "Bolivian re-sell/brand market" soon, > but not THIS week. That will be interesting. I read an article last week that Raspberries are not affected by the tariffs. However I believe Espressif will be. The ESP32 has been very popular since it has WiFi and BLE out of the box, is cheap, and performs well. Elegoo is also Chinese and is a source of Arduino clones. SunFounder is also Chinese. Those two are hobbyist oriented but the ESP32 is used in a lot of commercial applications. I don't know about STMicro. This may do good things for Microchip. They may be communists but they're no dummies; Vietnam is talking about dropping all tariffs on US goods.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-05 19:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <X0idnaa5DI6SXGz6nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #66909 |
On 4/5/25 4:05 PM, rbowman wrote: > On Sat, 5 Apr 2025 04:21:51 -0400, c186282 wrote: > > >> Haven't had an eprom programmer in a long time alas ... > > It should be easy to build one with a Pico or Arduino. I built one using > the parallel port on my Osborne 1 CP/M box. It was very disappointing when > the i386 came out and made tweaking the hardware a PITA. > >> At THIS point, I'd rather fool with a Z80/clone board, something that >> will run CP/M-80. Alas even a floppy interface - or FDDs for that >> matter - are getting hard to come by. Boards may have to have a trick >> for using thumb drives and PRETENDING they're floppies .... not >> strictly purist, but, these days, you've gotta use what you've gotta >> use. There isn't a huge retro market, the world is orientated for the >> newest/latest whiz-bang stuff. > > I'd go that way too since the Z80 was what I worked with, along with > 8080s, 8085s and Intel uCs. 6502s and 680Xs seemed a little strange to me. I did work with Z80s and the 65xx/68xx chips back in the day. The "logic" is a bit diff between those chips but not THAT much diff. The TI-9900 chips were weirder. I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better' than the 6809. The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved' 6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was. However they also left out some registers that were convenient to compiler writers. So, no verdict. There have been a LOT of chips - each maker convinced they had the Better Way. 'Transputers' were interesting, early easy hardware way to get parallelization. >> And just THIS week ... if in the USA you may not want to buy anything >> that comes from China. Expect a "Bolivian re-sell/brand market" soon, >> but not THIS week. > > That will be interesting. I read an article last week that Raspberries are > not affected by the tariffs. However I believe Espressif will be. The > ESP32 has been very popular since it has WiFi and BLE out of the box, is > cheap, and performs well. Elegoo is also Chinese and is a source of > Arduino clones. SunFounder is also Chinese. Those two are hobbyist > oriented but the ESP32 is used in a lot of commercial applications. > > I don't know about STMicro. This may do good things for Microchip. > > They may be communists but they're no dummies; Vietnam is talking about > dropping all tariffs on US goods. Well, if you're not addicted to solder ... easy enough to EMULATE a Z80+CP/M - but, admittedly, it's just not quite the same. CP/M-*86* emulations will run OK on VirtualBox. Somewhere - eBay maybe - there are old Kaypros and Osbournes to be had in working condition. A modern PI-sized board WOULD be nice, but IMHO getting, or faking, the FDDs would be a little challenging. (checked eBay ... plenty of KayPro's ...)
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| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-06 00:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnvv3hr3.g7g.spamtrap42@one.localnet> |
| In reply to | #66923 |
On 2025-04-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > ... > > I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better' > than the 6809. The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved' > 6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was. > However they also left out some registers that were > convenient to compiler writers. So, no verdict. I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I was told that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to the 6809, but Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar, and the 6502 was dumbed down by removing registers and/or crippling the indexing modes. One of the first things that struck me about the 6502's indexing and other addressing modes was that it looked/smelled crippled. Around 1980 or so, I had a short assembly program for 6502. It may have been a college assignment. Just for fun, I rewrote it for 6800 and then for 6809. Then, I counted the number of instructions in all three versions. The 6800 version used 2/3 the number of instructions as the 6502 version. The 6809 version used half of the instructions of the 6502 version. -- Robert Riches spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-06 01:53 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vssja3$3ki2e$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #66925 |
On 06/04/2025 01:14, Robert Riches wrote: > On 2025-04-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> ... >> >> I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better' >> than the 6809. The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved' >> 6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was. >> However they also left out some registers that were >> convenient to compiler writers. So, no verdict. > > I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I > was told that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to > the 6809, but Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar, > and the 6502 was dumbed down by removing registers and/or > crippling the indexing modes. One of the first things that > struck me about the 6502's indexing and other addressing modes > was that it looked/smelled crippled. > > Around 1980 or so, I had a short assembly program for 6502. It > may have been a college assignment. Just for fun, I rewrote it > for 6800 and then for 6809. Then, I counted the number of > instructions in all three versions. The 6800 version used 2/3 > the number of instructions as the 6502 version. The 6809 version > used half of the instructions of the 6502 version. > ...but the 6502 ran faster -- "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is true: it is true because it is powerful." Lucas Bergkamp
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-05 23:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <adKcnWDgsp6uZWz6nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #66930 |
On 4/5/25 8:53 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 06/04/2025 01:14, Robert Riches wrote: >> On 2025-04-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >>> ... >>> >>> I still see debate over whether the 6502 was 'better' >>> than the 6809. The 6502 was envisioned as the 'improved' >>> 6809 by the Motorola defectors - and in some ways was. >>> However they also left out some registers that were >>> convenient to compiler writers. So, no verdict. >> >> I don't have chapter and verse to quote, but back in the day I >> was told that the original design of the 6502 _WAS_ superior to >> the 6809, but Motorola sued on a basis of IP theft or similar, >> and the 6502 was dumbed down by removing registers and/or >> crippling the indexing modes. One of the first things that >> struck me about the 6502's indexing and other addressing modes >> was that it looked/smelled crippled. >> >> Around 1980 or so, I had a short assembly program for 6502. It >> may have been a college assignment. Just for fun, I rewrote it >> for 6800 and then for 6809. Then, I counted the number of >> instructions in all three versions. The 6800 version used 2/3 >> the number of instructions as the 6502 version. The 6809 version >> used half of the instructions of the 6502 version. >> > ...but the 6502 ran faster But the 6809 ran *easier* :-) Six/half-dozen ......... Then the wonderful 68000s ... but they could never make enough, fast enough, cheap enough ...... SOMEWHERE Mighty Mo just LOST it. Wasn't the hardware people ... but, so typical, "management". 68xxx compatibles ARE still made and used - look on Mouser or DigiKey. Not under the Motorola name anymore of course. Still very useful for some 'devices', esp printers.
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-06 17:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <uXyIP.18294$j2D.16132@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #66944 |
On 2025-04-06, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > Then the wonderful 68000s ... but they could never > make enough, fast enough, cheap enough ...... Or soon enough. Which once again proved that it's better to be first than to be best. "It's a good thing the iAPX 432 never caught on. Otherwise some truly horrible Intel architecture might have taken over the world." -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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