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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #86023 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-04-30 07:50 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-05-05 01:09 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 487 — 21 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc
Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 07:50 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-30 12:29 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-30 17:29 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 09:53 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-04-30 18:02 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 10:15 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 22:26 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:56 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:41 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 15:54 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:07 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 08:32 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:40 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 15:20 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:52 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 08:12 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-05 15:57 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 09:10 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-05 18:14 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:41 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-05 21:52 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 15:26 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-06 04:11 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-06 08:43 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-06 16:30 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-06 21:13 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-06 22:06 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-07 03:49 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-07 16:37 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 13:06 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-07 18:35 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:30 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 12:54 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-08 19:07 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-08 21:58 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 03:31 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-09 00:48 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 07:44 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:46 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:42 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 22:02 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:38 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 19:31 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 13:55 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:04 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 07:01 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:54 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:30 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:46 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:39 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:33 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 01:47 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:42 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-25 12:57 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 08:28 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 17:43 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-26 23:02 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 07:49 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:34 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:03 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-27 12:20 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-27 22:53 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 02:54 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 00:04 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 23:55 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:06 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:19 +0000
TV scripts and their computation by machine (was: Re: Wayland Makes Progress) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 09:29 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-28 15:45 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 09:11 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:05 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:29 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-27 18:28 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 21:36 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-27 18:44 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 23:53 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 07:37 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:07 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:37 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:39 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 20:09 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 03:19 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 01:03 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 06:05 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:35 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:38 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:21 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:10 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 19:42 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 01:58 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:18 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 15:43 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:27 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:17 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:08 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 10:34 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:22 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:13 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:11 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:20 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:45 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 19:48 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 01:43 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:26 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:15 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-12 02:57 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:42 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:35 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 22:04 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:47 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:15 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:26 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:04 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 12:33 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:12 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:12 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 14:45 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:05 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:37 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:35 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 23:42 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:31 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:27 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:41 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:12 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 20:46 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:55 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 21:44 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:09 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 19:47 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:25 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:38 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:34 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:10 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 21:34 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:26 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:43 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 11:54 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:38 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:33 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 23:28 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 04:36 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-15 04:58 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 08:01 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:20 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 11:21 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-15 02:37 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:17 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-17 05:25 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 17:08 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:27 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:36 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:18 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:22 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 20:41 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:21 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:04 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:24 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:10 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 08:54 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:29 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:23 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:16 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:36 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 09:51 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:52 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-12 19:55 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:45 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:46 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:09 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:55 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 23:46 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:25 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:07 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:00 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 20:58 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:27 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:24 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 21:05 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:19 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:04 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:39 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 10:44 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:28 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 21:50 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:10 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:22 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:49 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:59 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:34 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:23 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:14 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:23 +0100
Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:34 +0200
Re: Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 20:17 +0000
Re: Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 22:28 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:17 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 00:02 -0400
Pre-history (was Re: Wayland Makes Progress) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-18 15:56 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:21 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 14:43 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:55 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 14:19 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 16:51 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 23:08 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:35 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 23:39 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 14:04 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-16 12:45 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 20:46 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 15:49 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-13 09:10 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-29 07:33 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 22:54 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:24 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:31 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:39 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:55 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:18 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:51 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 15:50 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-28 07:17 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:23 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:38 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:04 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:29 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-09 10:18 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:49 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:00 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 20:46 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:06 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:08 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:33 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:45 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-08 15:23 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 03:42 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-06 01:35 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:49 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-06 19:05 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:59 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 16:55 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:32 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 12:56 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-08 18:05 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-08 13:01 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:41 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 14:03 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:46 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:56 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 18:04 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:51 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 18:40 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-10 16:50 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:46 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 19:58 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-15 21:23 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 21:08 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-17 08:01 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 03:35 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 10:31 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-17 11:11 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-17 14:52 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-17 16:35 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 21:00 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-22 06:51 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-22 11:04 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-22 22:38 -0400
Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 09:19 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 09:22 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 14:04 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:04 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:43 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:27 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:49 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 12:09 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-23 13:26 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 15:22 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:26 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:00 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 17:01 +0100
Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-23 16:28 +0000
Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 17:43 +0100
Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 01:06 -0400
Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-24 05:36 +0000
Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 02:45 -0400
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:44 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:57 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-23 16:53 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 12:20 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:46 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:08 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:32 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:50 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 21:57 -0400
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-24 08:54 +1000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:33 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 11:26 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-24 17:04 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 20:00 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 22:23 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-25 08:09 +1000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 07:34 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:18 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:29 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 21:54 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 07:25 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:45 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-25 08:38 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 10:50 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:35 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 10:54 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 13:41 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-26 09:14 +1000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2026-05-25 18:01 +1000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:54 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:48 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 11:04 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 13:44 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-26 00:46 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-27 12:38 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-27 22:47 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:17 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:35 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:54 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 06:58 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:36 +0200
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 04:13 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (was: title without w in "was:"?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 11:29 +0100
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-24 17:04 +0000
Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:47 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:47 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:28 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-02 10:25 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 09:43 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-01 15:32 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-01 22:21 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-01 20:36 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:37 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:40 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-02 09:07 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 12:32 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 12:29 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-02 20:22 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-02 23:27 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:39 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-03 09:20 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-30 14:39 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-01 15:29 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-01 09:30 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-01 13:36 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:36 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:43 +0200
VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-02 10:53 +0000
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 13:14 +0200
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 13:29 +0000
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 13:39 +0200
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-02 11:52 +0000
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 13:32 +0000
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-02 15:09 +0100
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 18:29 +0000
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 19:15 +0200
Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 20:25 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-03 12:34 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-03 13:50 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-03 22:03 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-04 12:51 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-04 19:35 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:56 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 16:53 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-07 17:39 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 20:10 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 13:04 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-08 14:27 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-08 19:05 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 14:01 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:15 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:24 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:44 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:08 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:30 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:04 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:53 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-08 15:13 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:55 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:52 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 13:10 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-10 18:46 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:38 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:46 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:57 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:07 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-15 09:10 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:04 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:49 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:38 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:34 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:30 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:30 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:56 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-11 22:38 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:25 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-12 08:02 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 02:24 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:53 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:09 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:06 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:54 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:39 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:58 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:03 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 22:54 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 15:56 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:13 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:51 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:20 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 20:24 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:30 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:44 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:15 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:16 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 23:01 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:11 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 19:58 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:53 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:56 +0200
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:44 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:40 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:49 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:06 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:34 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:47 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:40 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:03 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:33 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 13:01 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:21 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:52 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-08 09:23 +1000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-09 10:02 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:58 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:14 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 20:46 +0000
Dump Truck (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-09 21:30 +0000
Re: Dump Truck (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:58 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:38 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:12 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 16:22 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:33 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:02 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:11 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:52 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:22 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:51 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 21:14 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:14 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:58 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 00:36 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:03 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 12:40 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:27 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 17:02 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:00 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:57 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:54 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:12 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:55 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:32 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:46 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 21:50 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:12 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:23 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:16 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 21:23 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:23 -0400
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:29 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:41 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:16 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:35 -0700
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:52 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:08 +0100
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:33 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:15 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:57 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:50 +0000
Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-05 01:09 +0000
Page 1 of 25 [1] 2 3 … 25 Next page →
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-30 07:50 +0000 |
| Subject | Wayland Makes Progress |
| Message-ID | <10sv1kk$gjtg$1@dont-email.me> |
I just noticed another new feature in KDE Plasma after the latest upgrade on my Debian Unstable system: I can now drag windows using a modifier with the left mouse button, without them coming to the front. (By default this is Alt, I changed it to Super to avoid interfering with Alt-click commands in Blender.) This was a standard feature under X11, of course. But it seemed to have disappeared with the move to Wayland. But now it works again.
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| From | Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-30 12:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn10v6ion.acg.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> |
| In reply to | #86023 |
On 2026-04-30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > I just noticed another new feature in KDE Plasma after the latest > upgrade on my Debian Unstable system: I can now drag windows using a > modifier with the left mouse button, without them coming to the front. > (By default this is Alt, I changed it to Super to avoid interfering > with Alt-click commands in Blender.) > > This was a standard feature under X11, of course. But it seemed to > have disappeared with the move to Wayland. But now it works again. I'll wait with Wayland until it reaches somewhat feature parity with X11. There seems to be nothing but regressions from my POV in the move to Wayland. Odd, as usually "next gen" technology like BTRFS has been a superset, and not a subset, of what the previous tech could do.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-30 17:29 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10t001q$pcmf$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86027 |
On 30/04/2026 13:29, Borax Man wrote: > On 2026-04-30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> I just noticed another new feature in KDE Plasma after the latest >> upgrade on my Debian Unstable system: I can now drag windows using a >> modifier with the left mouse button, without them coming to the front. >> (By default this is Alt, I changed it to Super to avoid interfering >> with Alt-click commands in Blender.) >> >> This was a standard feature under X11, of course. But it seemed to >> have disappeared with the move to Wayland. But now it works again. > > > I'll wait with Wayland until it reaches somewhat feature parity with > X11. There seems to be nothing but regressions from my POV in the move > to Wayland. Odd, as usually "next gen" technology like BTRFS has been a > superset, and not a subset, of what the previous tech could do. I think you need to understand what life was like back in the origins of X windows No one actually knew what a GUI would be used for beyond the very limited windows and Mac environment So they threw everything into X windows. 30 years later they realized that most of it is seldom - if ever - used at all So a chance to really reproduce initially only what is actually needed most of the time, and move the rest to 'nice to have' compatibility libraries. -- "When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics." Josef Stalin
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-30 09:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260430095306.0000330b@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #86037 |
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 17:29:46 +0100 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > So a chance to really reproduce initially only what is actually > needed most of the time, and move the rest to 'nice to have' > compatibility libraries. Yyyeeeaaah it's that *second* bit that's kinda the problem - providing nonessentials as a bolt-on is fine, but the Wayland devs' approach has more typically been to insist that You Don't Need That. Like, they're *just lately* coming around to the idea that applications ought to be able to determine the size & position of their own windows, but since they spent *years* arguing that it was Not Necessary And Actually Bad, they don't even have a mechanism to provide the *option,* currently :/
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| From | Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-30 18:02 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10t01vb$2p94u$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86038 |
On 4/30/26 17:53, John Ames wrote: > On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 17:29:46 +0100 > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> So a chance to really reproduce initially only what is actually >> needed most of the time, and move the rest to 'nice to have' >> compatibility libraries. > > Yyyeeeaaah it's that *second* bit that's kinda the problem - providing > nonessentials as a bolt-on is fine, but the Wayland devs' approach has > more typically been to insist that You Don't Need That. Like, they're > *just lately* coming around to the idea that applications ought to be > able to determine the size & position of their own windows, but since > they spent *years* arguing that it was Not Necessary And Actually Bad, > they don't even have a mechanism to provide the *option,* currently :/ > A lot of development is about compromise, making decisions, proving a good working core as opposed to every random requested feature. It is hard to get right. Wayland is still not working on some core stuff, so it's not like they had huge spare resource.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-30 10:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260430101559.00000fe5@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #86039 |
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 18:02:34 +0100 Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote: > Wayland is still not working on some core stuff, so it's not like > they had huge spare resource. I'm prepared to believe that this is also true, but it's *definitely* the case that they've spent years pushing back on the idea that some extremely commonplace features of a display server are actually needed instead of being Actually Bad And Suspicious For Some Reason.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-30 22:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10t0kv8$10lf6$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86040 |
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 10:15:59 -0700, John Ames wrote: > On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 18:02:34 +0100 > Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote: > >> Wayland is still not working on some core stuff, so it's not like >> they had huge spare resource. > > I'm prepared to believe that this is also true, but it's > *definitely* the case that they've spent years pushing back on the > idea that some extremely commonplace features of a display server > are actually needed instead of being Actually Bad And Suspicious For > Some Reason. The reality is, we live in a less trusting world. There are more bad players out there trying to get one over on unsuspecting users. And do it automatically, in an indiscriminate mass attack, so nobody can feel safe just because you think nobody knows who you are. Wayland is designed from the ground up for such a world. But that’s just one of its features.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-01 13:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260501135638.000014d3@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #86045 |
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 22:26:49 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > The reality is, we live in a less trusting world. There are more bad > players out there trying to get one over on unsuspecting users. And do > it automatically, in an indiscriminate mass attack, so nobody can feel > safe just because you think nobody knows who you are. > > Wayland is designed from the ground up for such a world. But that’s > just one of its features. So they say! Except that, when they finally get it through their heads that people won't use their stuff without this or that concession, they knuckle under (as they did with application-specified window size and position,) which goes to show that their rationalization about security is just empty pretense. If it were critical for security, they wouldn't budge. Since they gave in, it's clearly not critical for security. Since it isn't but they said it is, that calls any of their other claims about security into question, because they'll plainly use it as an excuse to write off ideas they don't like. That's not the behavior of dedicated, security-oriented professional developers. It's the behavior of petulant children.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-01 22:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10t3a7f$1og72$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86065 |
On Fri, 1 May 2026 13:56:38 -0700, John Ames wrote: > On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 22:26:49 -0000 (UTC) > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> The reality is, we live in a less trusting world. There are more >> bad players out there trying to get one over on unsuspecting users. >> And do it automatically, in an indiscriminate mass attack, so >> nobody can feel safe just because you think nobody knows who you >> are. >> >> Wayland is designed from the ground up for such a world. But that’s >> just one of its features. > > So they say! Try it for yourself, and you’ll see. > Except that, when they finally get it through their heads that > people won't use their stuff without this or that concession, they > knuckle under (as they did with application-specified window size > and position,) ... Where has there been such a concession? See also <https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/247>.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-01 15:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260501155425.00007474@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #86071 |
On Fri, 1 May 2026 22:41:52 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > > Except that, when they finally get it through their heads that > > people won't use their stuff without this or that concession, they > > knuckle under (as they did with application-specified window size > > and position,) ... > > Where has there been such a concession? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264 ^ Right here, where after years of insisting that You Don't Need That & It Can't Be Done, only to run up against the fact that *nix-friendly prosumer developers like KiCad flatly refuse to re-work their entire UX and workflow to suit the whims of the Wayland devs, the Wayland devs... gave in and started working on a protocol extension to add support for application-specified window size & position. You know, as they could've done *at any point prior.*
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-01 23:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10t3bmo$1og72$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86072 |
On Fri, 1 May 2026 15:54:25 -0700, John Ames wrote: > On Fri, 1 May 2026 22:41:52 -0000 (UTC) > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >>> Except that, when they finally get it through their heads that >>> people won't use their stuff without this or that concession, they >>> knuckle under (as they did with application-specified window size >>> and position,) ... >> >> Where has there been such a concession? > > https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264 > > ^ Right here, where after years of insisting that You Don't Need > That & It Can't Be Done, only to run up against the fact that > *nix-friendly prosumer developers like KiCad flatly refuse to > re-work their entire UX and workflow to suit the whims of the > Wayland devs, the Wayland devs... gave in and started working on a > protocol extension to add support for application-specified window > size & position. Interesting that, after more than 2 years, it’s still marked as “experimental”. I can’t see the point in it, myself. Even I can think of a way the KiCad folks could have solved their problem without requiring special treatment from Wayland.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-04 08:32 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260504083251.00005c6b@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #86074 |
On Fri, 1 May 2026 23:07:04 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > I can’t see the point in it, myself. Even I can think of a way the > KiCad folks could have solved their problem without requiring special > treatment from Wayland. Yes, as you've repeatedly argued, all it would take is for the KiCad devs to completely alter the layout and workflow of their application and cheese off their entire userbase to suit the whims of another group of developers representing a minority of a minority of their clientele, which makes *total* sense and is absolutely 100% a reasonable solution!
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-04 23:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10tbaq5$1nih$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86123 |
On Mon, 4 May 2026 08:32:51 -0700, John Ames wrote: > On Fri, 1 May 2026 23:07:04 -0000 (UTC) > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> I can’t see the point in it, myself. Even I can think of a way the >> KiCad folks could have solved their problem without requiring >> special treatment from Wayland. > > Yes, as you've repeatedly argued, all it would take is for the KiCad > devs to completely alter the layout and workflow of their > application ... I have argued no such thing. Even that merge request hints at the solution I thought of, before dismissing it out of hand (I suspect from a lack of imagination).
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-04 15:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260504152020.000053cd@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #86074 |
On Fri, 1 May 2026 23:07:04 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > Even I can think of a way the KiCad folks could have solved their > problem without requiring special treatment from Wayland. Oh right, you've *also* proposed that they implement an entire window- manager system within the confines of a single *actual* window, as in Blender, and this may be what you're referring to here. Which, again, would require that they spend a massive amount of development effort to suit the demands of a minority of a minority of their userbase, while making the user experience different for everyone else for no reason. Perhaps, instead of trying to construct arguments around the premise that KiCad (or any other *nix-friendly prosumer software using the multiple-windows-in-a-predefined-layout paradigm) is being unreasonable and requiring "special treatment" from Wayland, you might consider it from this perspective: by what logic is *Wayland* entitled to demand special treatment from KiCad?
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-04 23:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10tbbff$1nih$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86130 |
On Mon, 4 May 2026 15:20:20 -0700, John Ames wrote: > On Fri, 1 May 2026 23:07:04 -0000 (UTC) > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> Even I can think of a way the KiCad folks could have solved their >> problem without requiring special treatment from Wayland. > > Oh right, you've *also* proposed that they implement an entire > window- manager system within the confines of a single *actual* > window, as in Blender, and this may be what you're referring to > here. Kind of. Remember that a “window” need not be rectangular, or even consist of contiguous pixels. I imagine (not having used KiCad) that its UI layout consists of one or more “document” windows plus one or more “tool/palette” windows. Possibly even a separate “menubar” window. All of these can be discontiguous regions of pixels, with custom areas drawn to look like suitable window decorations to look like separate windows, and the user need be none the wiser. When the user clicks on one of these decoration areas (since they are within the content area of the window, would they be “interior decorators”?), the app itself can handle the relocation of that piece of the overall application window. And it has total control over how any overlap with other of its pieces might appear and behave. As for positioning, if the size of the overall window bounds matches that of the entire monitor area (however many monitors that might cover) I imagine any sensible placement algorithm would have the window manager position it over the entire monitor area. And that gives you the effect you’re after, of predictable window placement. Another advantage is that you can’t bring one “window” piece to the front without the rest following, since as far as the window manager is concerned they are all part of the same window. This would actually make window clutter (in the presence of other apps) easier to manage. > Which, again, would require that they spend a massive amount > of development effort to suit the demands of a minority of a > minority of their userbase ... That I doubt. I am sure there are sufficient Linux users that the level of Linux developer talent to pull this off would also follow. > ... while making the user experience different for everyone else for > no reason. UI implementation layers have to be platform-specific anyway. My above scheme preserves the commonality with the existing behaviour, and possibly makes it a bit nicer, as mentioned.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-05 08:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260505081230.00005ae5@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #86132 |
On Mon, 4 May 2026 23:52:16 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > All of these can be discontiguous regions of pixels, with custom areas > drawn to look like suitable window decorations to look like separate > windows, and the user need be none the wiser. When the user clicks on > one of these decoration areas (since they are within the content area > of the window, would they be “interior decorators”?), the app itself > can handle the relocation of that piece of the overall application > window. And it has total control over how any overlap with other of > its pieces might appear and behave. So, re-implementing a window manager within the confines of a window - one which would have no relation to the user's actual, preferred window manager, so there'd be no way for them to maintain consistency between $APPLICATION pseudo-windows and *everything else* in the user's desktop environment (which the X11 way of doing things provides for free.) Sounds like a real win! > > Which, again, would require that they spend a massive amount > > of development effort to suit the demands of a minority of a > > minority of their userbase ... > > That I doubt. I am sure there are sufficient Linux users that the > level of Linux developer talent to pull this off would also follow. Yes, I'm sure there's a bunch of people out there just chomping at the bit to reinvent the window manager from first principles inside another window manager, for the sake of saving the Wayland devs from having to offer feature parity with X11 in their X11 replacement. Eminently plausible!
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-05 15:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10td419$ho0g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86147 |
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, 4 May 2026 23:52:16 -0000 (UTC) > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > >> All of these can be discontiguous regions of pixels, with custom areas >> drawn to look like suitable window decorations to look like separate >> windows, and the user need be none the wiser. When the user clicks on >> one of these decoration areas (since they are within the content area >> of the window, would they be “interior decorators”?), the app itself >> can handle the relocation of that piece of the overall application >> window. And it has total control over how any overlap with other of >> its pieces might appear and behave. > > So, re-implementing a window manager within the confines of a window - > one which would have no relation to the user's actual, preferred window > manager, so there'd be no way for them to maintain consistency between > $APPLICATION pseudo-windows and *everything else* in the user's desktop > environment (which the X11 way of doing things provides for free.) > > Sounds like a real win! Just for the record, you are arguing with the local group troll.
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-05 09:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260505091009.00000911@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #86148 |
On Tue, 5 May 2026 15:57:29 -0000 (UTC) Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: > Just for the record, you are arguing with the local group troll. If we cut every neurodivergent person with insane opinions and no ability to let go of bad ideas out of the discussion, this group basically wouldn't exist.
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| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-05 18:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10tdc1i$5uj$3@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #86150 |
In article <20260505091009.00000911@gmail.com>, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: >On Tue, 5 May 2026 15:57:29 -0000 (UTC) >Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: > >> Just for the record, you are arguing with the local group troll. > >If we cut every neurodivergent person with insane opinions and no >ability to let go of bad ideas out of the discussion, this group >basically wouldn't exist. Perhaps. But Lawrence really isn't worth anyone's time. Either he is only a troll, or he is simply an idiot. Neither deserves response. - Dan C.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-06 17:41 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10tfr0d$1aqc9$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86153 |
On 05/05/2026 19:14, Dan Cross wrote: > In article <20260505091009.00000911@gmail.com>, > John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Tue, 5 May 2026 15:57:29 -0000 (UTC) >> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Just for the record, you are arguing with the local group troll. >> >> If we cut every neurodivergent person with insane opinions and no >> ability to let go of bad ideas out of the discussion, this group >> basically wouldn't exist. > > Perhaps. But Lawrence really isn't worth anyone's time. Either > he is only a troll, or he is simply an idiot. Neither deserves > response. > He is kf here. After about 2 years of nothing of any interest, and plenty of time wasting People who don't know and don't want to know and are not even amusing are splatted. > - Dan C. > -- "Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...." "What kind of person is not interested in those things?" "Jeremy Corbyn?"
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