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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #86023 > unrolled thread

Wayland Makes Progress

Started byLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2026-04-30 07:50 +0000
Last post2026-05-05 01:09 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 487 — 21 participants

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Contents

  Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 07:50 +0000
    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-30 12:29 +0000
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-30 17:29 +0100
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 09:53 -0700
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-04-30 18:02 +0100
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 10:15 -0700
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 22:26 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:56 -0700
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:41 +0000
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 15:54 -0700
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:07 +0000
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 08:32 -0700
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:40 +0000
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 15:20 -0700
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:52 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 08:12 -0700
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-05 15:57 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 09:10 -0700
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-05 18:14 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:41 +0100
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-05 21:52 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 15:26 -0700
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-06 04:11 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-06 08:43 -0700
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-06 16:30 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-06 21:13 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-06 22:06 -0400
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-07 03:49 +0000
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-07 16:37 -0400
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 13:06 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-07 18:35 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:30 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 12:54 +0000
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-08 19:07 +0000
                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-08 21:58 -0400
                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 03:31 +0000
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-09 00:48 -0400
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 07:44 +0000
                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:46 +0200
                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:42 +0000
                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 22:02 +0200
                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:38 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 19:31 +0200
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 13:55 +0200
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:04 +0000
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 07:01 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:54 +0200
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:30 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:46 +0200
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:33 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 01:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:42 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-25 12:57 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 08:28 -0700
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 17:43 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-26 23:02 +0200
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 07:49 +0200
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:34 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:03 +0200
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-27 12:20 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-27 22:53 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 02:54 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 00:04 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 23:55 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:06 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:19 +0000
                                                                                          TV scripts and their computation by machine (was: Re: Wayland Makes Progress) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 09:29 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-28 15:45 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 09:11 +0100
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:05 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:29 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-27 18:28 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 21:36 +0100
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-27 18:44 +0000
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 23:53 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 07:37 +0200
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:07 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:37 +0200
                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:39 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 20:09 +0200
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 03:19 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 01:03 -0400
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 06:05 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:35 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:38 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:21 +0200
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:10 -0700
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 19:42 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 01:58 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:18 +0200
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 15:43 +0000
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:27 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:17 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:08 +0200
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 10:34 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:22 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:13 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:11 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:20 +0200
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:45 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 19:48 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 01:43 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:26 +0200
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:15 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-12 02:57 +0000
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:42 +0200
                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:35 +0000
                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 22:04 +0200
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:47 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:15 +0100
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:26 +0000
                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:04 +0100
                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 12:33 +0000
                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:12 +0000
                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:12 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 14:45 +0100
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:05 +0000
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:37 +0100
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:35 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 23:42 -0400
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:31 +0200
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:27 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:41 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 20:46 -0400
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:55 +0000
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 21:44 -0700
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:09 +0000
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 19:47 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:25 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:38 +0000
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:34 +0100
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:10 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 21:34 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:26 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:43 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 11:54 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:38 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:33 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 23:28 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 04:36 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-15 04:58 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 08:01 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:20 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 11:21 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-15 02:37 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:17 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-17 05:25 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 17:08 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:27 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:36 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:18 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:22 +0100
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 20:41 +0100
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:21 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:04 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:24 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:10 +0100
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 08:54 -0700
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:29 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:16 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:36 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 09:51 -0700
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:52 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-12 19:55 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:45 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:46 -0700
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:09 +0100
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:55 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 23:46 -0400
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:25 +0100
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:07 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 20:58 -0700
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:27 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:24 +0100
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 21:05 -0400
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:19 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:04 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:39 +0200
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 10:44 -0700
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 21:50 -0700
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:10 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:22 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:49 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:59 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:34 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:23 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:14 +0100
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:23 +0100
                                                                          Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:34 +0200
                                                                            Re: Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 20:17 +0000
                                                                              Re: Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 22:28 +0200
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:17 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 00:02 -0400
                                                                            Pre-history (was Re: Wayland Makes Progress) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-18 15:56 -0700
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:21 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 14:43 +0100
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:55 +0000
                                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 14:19 +0100
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 16:51 +0000
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 23:08 +0200
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:35 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 23:39 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 14:04 +0200
                                                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-16 12:45 +0000
                                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 20:46 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 15:49 +0000
                                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-13 09:10 -0700
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-29 07:33 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 22:54 +0000
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:31 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:39 +0000
                                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:55 +0100
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:18 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:51 +0100
                                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 15:50 +0000
                                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-28 07:17 +0000
                                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:23 +0100
                                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:38 +0100
                                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:04 +0100
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:29 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-09 10:18 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:49 +0000
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:00 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 20:46 +0000
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:06 +0100
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:08 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:33 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:45 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-08 15:23 -0700
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 03:42 +0100
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-06 01:35 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:49 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-06 19:05 +0000
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:59 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 16:55 +0100
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:32 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 12:56 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-08 18:05 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-08 13:01 -0700
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:41 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 14:03 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:46 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:56 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 18:04 +0100
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:51 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 18:40 +0100
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-10 16:50 +0100
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:46 +0100
                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 19:58 +0000
                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-15 21:23 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 21:08 +0000
                                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-17 08:01 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 03:35 -0400
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 10:31 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-17 11:11 +0000
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-17 14:52 +0200
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-17 16:35 +0000
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 21:00 +0100
                                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-22 06:51 +0000
                                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-22 11:04 +0200
                                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-22 22:38 -0400
                                                          Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 09:19 +0200
                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 09:22 +0100
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 14:04 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:04 +0100
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:43 +0200
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 09:27 +0100
                                                                      Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:49 +0200
                                                                      Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 12:09 +0200
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-23 13:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 15:22 +0100
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:26 +0000
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:00 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 17:01 +0100
                                                                Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-23 16:28 +0000
                                                                  Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 17:43 +0100
                                                                  Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 01:06 -0400
                                                                    Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-24 05:36 +0000
                                                                      Re: Moving sshd to a different port (Was: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress)) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 02:45 -0400
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:44 +0200
                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:57 +0200
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-23 16:53 +0000
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 12:20 +0100
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 19:46 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:08 +0200
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:32 +0200
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 10:50 +0200
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 21:57 -0400
                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-24 08:54 +1000
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:33 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 11:26 +0100
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-24 17:04 +0000
                                                                  Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 20:00 +0200
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-24 22:23 +0200
                                                                      Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-25 08:09 +1000
                                                                        Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 07:34 +0200
                                                                          Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:18 +0000
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:29 +0200
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 21:54 +0000
                                                                          Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 07:25 +0100
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:45 +0000
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-25 08:38 +0100
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 10:50 +0100
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:35 +0200
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 10:54 +0100
                                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 13:41 +0200
                                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-26 09:14 +1000
                                                                          Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2026-05-25 18:01 +1000
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:54 +0200
                                                                        Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 11:48 +0200
                                                                          Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-25 11:04 +0100
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-25 13:44 +0200
                                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-26 00:46 +0000
                                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-27 12:38 +0100
                                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-27 22:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 06:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-25 10:35 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:54 +0000
                                                            Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 06:58 +0000
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:36 +0200
                                                                Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-25 04:13 +0000
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (was: title without w in "was:"?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-24 11:29 +0100
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-24 17:04 +0000
                                                              Re: Remote and Out of Band Access (as: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 17:47 +0000
                                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-23 14:47 +0200
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:28 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-02 10:25 +0100
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 09:43 -0700
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-01 15:32 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-01 22:21 +0200
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-01 20:36 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:37 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:40 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-02 09:07 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 12:32 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 12:29 +0200
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-02 20:22 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-02 23:27 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:39 +0100
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-03 09:20 +0200
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-30 14:39 -0400
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-01 15:29 +0000
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-01 09:30 +0000
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-01 13:36 +0200
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:36 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:43 +0200
              VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-02 10:53 +0000
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 13:14 +0200
                  Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 13:29 +0000
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 13:39 +0200
                  Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-02 11:52 +0000
                    Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 13:32 +0000
                      Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-02 15:09 +0100
                        Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 18:29 +0000
                      Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 19:15 +0200
                    Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 20:25 +0200
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-03 12:34 +0000
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-03 13:50 +0100
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-03 22:03 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-04 12:51 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-04 19:35 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:56 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 16:53 +0100
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-07 17:39 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 20:10 +0100
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 13:04 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-08 14:27 +0100
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-08 19:05 +0000
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 14:01 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:15 +0100
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:24 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:44 -0700
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:08 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:30 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:04 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:53 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-08 15:13 -0700
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:55 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:52 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 13:10 +0000
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-10 18:46 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:38 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:46 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:57 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:07 +0200
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-15 09:10 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:04 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:49 -0400
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:38 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:34 +0000
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:30 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:30 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:56 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-11 22:38 +0200
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:25 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-12 08:02 +0200
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 02:24 -0400
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:53 +0200
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:09 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:06 +0000
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:54 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:39 +0200
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:58 +0100
                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:03 +0000
                                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 22:54 +0200
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 15:56 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:13 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:51 +0200
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:20 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 20:24 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:30 -0400
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:44 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:15 +0100
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:16 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 23:01 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:11 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 19:58 -0700
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:53 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:56 +0200
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:44 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:40 +0100
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:49 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:06 -0700
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:34 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:47 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:40 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:03 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:33 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 13:01 +0000
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:21 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:52 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-08 09:23 +1000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-09 10:02 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:58 +0100
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:14 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 20:46 +0000
                        Dump Truck (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-09 21:30 +0000
                          Re: Dump Truck (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:58 +0100
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:38 -0700
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:12 +0000
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 16:22 -0700
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:33 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:02 +0100
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:11 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:52 +0000
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:22 -0700
                                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:51 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 21:14 -0700
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:14 -0400
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:58 +0000
                                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 00:36 -0400
                                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:03 +0000
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 12:40 -0400
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:27 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 17:02 -0700
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:00 +0100
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:57 +0100
                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:54 +0100
                            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:12 +0100
                              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:55 +0000
                                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:32 -0700
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:46 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 21:50 -0400
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:12 +0100
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:23 +0000
                                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:16 +0000
                                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 21:23 -0700
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:23 -0400
                                        Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:29 +0100
                                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:41 +0000
                          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:16 +0000
                  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:35 -0700
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:52 +0000
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:08 +0100
                    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:33 +0000
                      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:15 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:57 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:50 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-05 01:09 +0000

Page 1 of 25  [1] 2 3 … 25  Next page →


#86023 — Wayland Makes Progress

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-04-30 07:50 +0000
SubjectWayland Makes Progress
Message-ID<10sv1kk$gjtg$1@dont-email.me>
I just noticed another new feature in KDE Plasma after the latest
upgrade on my Debian Unstable system: I can now drag windows using a
modifier with the left mouse button, without them coming to the front.
(By default this is Alt, I changed it to Super to avoid interfering
with Alt-click commands in Blender.)

This was a standard feature under X11, of course. But it seemed to
have disappeared with the move to Wayland. But now it works again.

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#86027

FromBorax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
Date2026-04-30 12:29 +0000
Message-ID<slrn10v6ion.acg.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>
In reply to#86023
On 2026-04-30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> I just noticed another new feature in KDE Plasma after the latest
> upgrade on my Debian Unstable system: I can now drag windows using a
> modifier with the left mouse button, without them coming to the front.
> (By default this is Alt, I changed it to Super to avoid interfering
> with Alt-click commands in Blender.)
>
> This was a standard feature under X11, of course. But it seemed to
> have disappeared with the move to Wayland. But now it works again.


I'll wait with Wayland until it reaches somewhat feature parity with
X11.  There seems to be nothing but regressions from my POV in the move
to Wayland.  Odd, as usually "next gen" technology like BTRFS has been a
superset, and not a subset, of what the previous tech could do.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86037

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-04-30 17:29 +0100
Message-ID<10t001q$pcmf$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86027
On 30/04/2026 13:29, Borax Man wrote:
> On 2026-04-30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> I just noticed another new feature in KDE Plasma after the latest
>> upgrade on my Debian Unstable system: I can now drag windows using a
>> modifier with the left mouse button, without them coming to the front.
>> (By default this is Alt, I changed it to Super to avoid interfering
>> with Alt-click commands in Blender.)
>>
>> This was a standard feature under X11, of course. But it seemed to
>> have disappeared with the move to Wayland. But now it works again.
> 
> 
> I'll wait with Wayland until it reaches somewhat feature parity with
> X11.  There seems to be nothing but regressions from my POV in the move
> to Wayland.  Odd, as usually "next gen" technology like BTRFS has been a
> superset, and not a subset, of what the previous tech could do.

I think you need to understand what life was like back in the origins of 
X windows

No one actually knew what a GUI would be used for beyond the very 
limited windows and Mac environment

So they threw everything into X windows.

30 years later they realized that most of it is seldom - if ever - used 
at all

So a chance to really reproduce initially only what is actually needed 
most of the time, and move the rest to 'nice to have' compatibility 
libraries.



-- 
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

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#86038

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-04-30 09:53 -0700
Message-ID<20260430095306.0000330b@gmail.com>
In reply to#86037
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 17:29:46 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> So a chance to really reproduce initially only what is actually
> needed most of the time, and move the rest to 'nice to have'
> compatibility libraries.

Yyyeeeaaah it's that *second* bit that's kinda the problem - providing
nonessentials as a bolt-on is fine, but the Wayland devs' approach has
more typically been to insist that You Don't Need That. Like, they're
*just lately* coming around to the idea that applications ought to be
able to determine the size & position of their own windows, but since
they spent *years* arguing that it was Not Necessary And Actually Bad,
they don't even have a mechanism to provide the *option,* currently :/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86039

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>
Date2026-04-30 18:02 +0100
Message-ID<10t01vb$2p94u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86038
On 4/30/26 17:53, John Ames wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 17:29:46 +0100
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> So a chance to really reproduce initially only what is actually
>> needed most of the time, and move the rest to 'nice to have'
>> compatibility libraries.
> 
> Yyyeeeaaah it's that *second* bit that's kinda the problem - providing
> nonessentials as a bolt-on is fine, but the Wayland devs' approach has
> more typically been to insist that You Don't Need That. Like, they're
> *just lately* coming around to the idea that applications ought to be
> able to determine the size & position of their own windows, but since
> they spent *years* arguing that it was Not Necessary And Actually Bad,
> they don't even have a mechanism to provide the *option,* currently :/
> 

A lot of development is about compromise, making decisions, proving a 
good working core as opposed to every random requested feature. It is 
hard to get right.

Wayland is still not working on some core stuff, so it's not like they 
had huge spare resource.

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#86040

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-04-30 10:15 -0700
Message-ID<20260430101559.00000fe5@gmail.com>
In reply to#86039
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 18:02:34 +0100
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:

> Wayland is still not working on some core stuff, so it's not like
> they had huge spare resource.

I'm prepared to believe that this is also true, but it's *definitely*
the case that they've spent years pushing back on the idea that some
extremely commonplace features of a display server are actually needed
instead of being Actually Bad And Suspicious For Some Reason.

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#86045

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-04-30 22:26 +0000
Message-ID<10t0kv8$10lf6$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86040
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 10:15:59 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 18:02:34 +0100
> Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Wayland is still not working on some core stuff, so it's not like
>> they had huge spare resource.
>
> I'm prepared to believe that this is also true, but it's
> *definitely* the case that they've spent years pushing back on the
> idea that some extremely commonplace features of a display server
> are actually needed instead of being Actually Bad And Suspicious For
> Some Reason.

The reality is, we live in a less trusting world. There are more bad
players out there trying to get one over on unsuspecting users. And do
it automatically, in an indiscriminate mass attack, so nobody can feel
safe just because you think nobody knows who you are.

Wayland is designed from the ground up for such a world. But that’s
just one of its features.

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#86065

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-01 13:56 -0700
Message-ID<20260501135638.000014d3@gmail.com>
In reply to#86045
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 22:26:49 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> The reality is, we live in a less trusting world. There are more bad
> players out there trying to get one over on unsuspecting users. And do
> it automatically, in an indiscriminate mass attack, so nobody can feel
> safe just because you think nobody knows who you are.
> 
> Wayland is designed from the ground up for such a world. But that’s
> just one of its features.

So they say! Except that, when they finally get it through their heads
that people won't use their stuff without this or that concession, they
knuckle under (as they did with application-specified window size and
position,) which goes to show that their rationalization about security
is just empty pretense.

If it were critical for security, they wouldn't budge. Since they gave
in, it's clearly not critical for security. Since it isn't but they
said it is, that calls any of their other claims about security into
question, because they'll plainly use it as an excuse to write off
ideas they don't like.

That's not the behavior of dedicated, security-oriented professional
developers. It's the behavior of petulant children.

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#86071

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-05-01 22:41 +0000
Message-ID<10t3a7f$1og72$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86065
On Fri, 1 May 2026 13:56:38 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 22:26:49 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The reality is, we live in a less trusting world. There are more
>> bad players out there trying to get one over on unsuspecting users.
>> And do it automatically, in an indiscriminate mass attack, so
>> nobody can feel safe just because you think nobody knows who you
>> are.
>>
>> Wayland is designed from the ground up for such a world. But that’s
>> just one of its features.
>
> So they say!

Try it for yourself, and you’ll see.

> Except that, when they finally get it through their heads that
> people won't use their stuff without this or that concession, they
> knuckle under (as they did with application-specified window size
> and position,) ...

Where has there been such a concession?

See also
<https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/247>.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86072

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-01 15:54 -0700
Message-ID<20260501155425.00007474@gmail.com>
In reply to#86071
On Fri, 1 May 2026 22:41:52 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> > Except that, when they finally get it through their heads that
> > people won't use their stuff without this or that concession, they
> > knuckle under (as they did with application-specified window size
> > and position,) ...  
> 
> Where has there been such a concession?

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264

^ Right here, where after years of insisting that You Don't Need That &
It Can't Be Done, only to run up against the fact that *nix-friendly
prosumer developers like KiCad flatly refuse to re-work their entire UX
and workflow to suit the whims of the Wayland devs, the Wayland devs...
gave in and started working on a protocol extension to add support for
application-specified window size & position.

You know, as they could've done *at any point prior.*

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#86074

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-05-01 23:07 +0000
Message-ID<10t3bmo$1og72$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86072
On Fri, 1 May 2026 15:54:25 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Fri, 1 May 2026 22:41:52 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Except that, when they finally get it through their heads that
>>> people won't use their stuff without this or that concession, they
>>> knuckle under (as they did with application-specified window size
>>> and position,) ...
>>
>> Where has there been such a concession?
>
> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264
>
> ^ Right here, where after years of insisting that You Don't Need
> That & It Can't Be Done, only to run up against the fact that
> *nix-friendly prosumer developers like KiCad flatly refuse to
> re-work their entire UX and workflow to suit the whims of the
> Wayland devs, the Wayland devs... gave in and started working on a
> protocol extension to add support for application-specified window
> size & position.

Interesting that, after more than 2 years, it’s still marked as
“experimental”.

I can’t see the point in it, myself. Even I can think of a way the
KiCad folks could have solved their problem without requiring special
treatment from Wayland.

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#86123

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-04 08:32 -0700
Message-ID<20260504083251.00005c6b@gmail.com>
In reply to#86074
On Fri, 1 May 2026 23:07:04 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> I can’t see the point in it, myself. Even I can think of a way the
> KiCad folks could have solved their problem without requiring special
> treatment from Wayland.

Yes, as you've repeatedly argued, all it would take is for the KiCad
devs to completely alter the layout and workflow of their application
and cheese off their entire userbase to suit the whims of another group
of developers representing a minority of a minority of their clientele,
which makes *total* sense and is absolutely 100% a reasonable solution!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86131

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-05-04 23:40 +0000
Message-ID<10tbaq5$1nih$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86123
On Mon, 4 May 2026 08:32:51 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Fri, 1 May 2026 23:07:04 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I can’t see the point in it, myself. Even I can think of a way the
>> KiCad folks could have solved their problem without requiring
>> special treatment from Wayland.
>
> Yes, as you've repeatedly argued, all it would take is for the KiCad
> devs to completely alter the layout and workflow of their
> application ...

I have argued no such thing. Even that merge request hints at the
solution I thought of, before dismissing it out of hand (I suspect
from a lack of imagination).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86130

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-04 15:20 -0700
Message-ID<20260504152020.000053cd@gmail.com>
In reply to#86074
On Fri, 1 May 2026 23:07:04 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> Even I can think of a way the KiCad folks could have solved their
> problem without requiring special treatment from Wayland.

Oh right, you've *also* proposed that they implement an entire window-
manager system within the confines of a single *actual* window, as in
Blender, and this may be what you're referring to here. Which, again,
would require that they spend a massive amount of development effort to
suit the demands of a minority of a minority of their userbase, while
making the user experience different for everyone else for no reason.

Perhaps, instead of trying to construct arguments around the premise
that KiCad (or any other *nix-friendly prosumer software using the
multiple-windows-in-a-predefined-layout paradigm) is being unreasonable
and requiring "special treatment" from Wayland, you might consider it
from this perspective: by what logic is *Wayland* entitled to demand
special treatment from KiCad?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#86132

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-05-04 23:52 +0000
Message-ID<10tbbff$1nih$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86130
On Mon, 4 May 2026 15:20:20 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Fri, 1 May 2026 23:07:04 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Even I can think of a way the KiCad folks could have solved their
>> problem without requiring special treatment from Wayland.
>
> Oh right, you've *also* proposed that they implement an entire
> window- manager system within the confines of a single *actual*
> window, as in Blender, and this may be what you're referring to
> here.

Kind of. Remember that a “window” need not be rectangular, or even
consist of contiguous pixels. I imagine (not having used KiCad) that
its UI layout consists of one or more “document” windows plus one or
more “tool/palette” windows. Possibly even a separate “menubar”
window.

All of these can be discontiguous regions of pixels, with custom areas
drawn to look like suitable window decorations to look like separate
windows, and the user need be none the wiser. When the user clicks on
one of these decoration areas (since they are within the content area
of the window, would they be “interior decorators”?), the app itself
can handle the relocation of that piece of the overall application
window. And it has total control over how any overlap with other of
its pieces might appear and behave.

As for positioning, if the size of the overall window bounds matches
that of the entire monitor area (however many monitors that might
cover) I imagine any sensible placement algorithm would have the
window manager position it over the entire monitor area. And that
gives you the effect you’re after, of predictable window placement.

Another advantage is that you can’t bring one “window” piece to the
front without the rest following, since as far as the window manager
is concerned they are all part of the same window. This would actually
make window clutter (in the presence of other apps) easier to manage.

> Which, again, would require that they spend a massive amount
> of development effort to suit the demands of a minority of a
> minority of their userbase ...

That I doubt. I am sure there are sufficient Linux users that the
level of Linux developer talent to pull this off would also follow.

> ... while making the user experience different for everyone else for
> no reason.

UI implementation layers have to be platform-specific anyway. My above
scheme preserves the commonality with the existing behaviour, and
possibly makes it a bit nicer, as mentioned.

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#86147

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-05 08:12 -0700
Message-ID<20260505081230.00005ae5@gmail.com>
In reply to#86132
On Mon, 4 May 2026 23:52:16 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> All of these can be discontiguous regions of pixels, with custom areas
> drawn to look like suitable window decorations to look like separate
> windows, and the user need be none the wiser. When the user clicks on
> one of these decoration areas (since they are within the content area
> of the window, would they be “interior decorators”?), the app itself
> can handle the relocation of that piece of the overall application
> window. And it has total control over how any overlap with other of
> its pieces might appear and behave.

So, re-implementing a window manager within the confines of a window -
one which would have no relation to the user's actual, preferred window
manager, so there'd be no way for them to maintain consistency between
$APPLICATION pseudo-windows and *everything else* in the user's desktop
environment (which the X11 way of doing things provides for free.)

Sounds like a real win!

> > Which, again, would require that they spend a massive amount
> > of development effort to suit the demands of a minority of a
> > minority of their userbase ...  
> 
> That I doubt. I am sure there are sufficient Linux users that the
> level of Linux developer talent to pull this off would also follow.

Yes, I'm sure there's a bunch of people out there just chomping at the
bit to reinvent the window manager from first principles inside another
window manager, for the sake of saving the Wayland devs from having to
offer feature parity with X11 in their X11 replacement.

Eminently plausible!

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#86148

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2026-05-05 15:57 +0000
Message-ID<10td419$ho0g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86147
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 4 May 2026 23:52:16 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> All of these can be discontiguous regions of pixels, with custom areas
>> drawn to look like suitable window decorations to look like separate
>> windows, and the user need be none the wiser. When the user clicks on
>> one of these decoration areas (since they are within the content area
>> of the window, would they be “interior decorators”?), the app itself
>> can handle the relocation of that piece of the overall application
>> window. And it has total control over how any overlap with other of
>> its pieces might appear and behave.
> 
> So, re-implementing a window manager within the confines of a window -
> one which would have no relation to the user's actual, preferred window
> manager, so there'd be no way for them to maintain consistency between
> $APPLICATION pseudo-windows and *everything else* in the user's desktop
> environment (which the X11 way of doing things provides for free.)
> 
> Sounds like a real win!

Just for the record, you are arguing with the local group troll.

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#86150

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-05 09:10 -0700
Message-ID<20260505091009.00000911@gmail.com>
In reply to#86148
On Tue, 5 May 2026 15:57:29 -0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> Just for the record, you are arguing with the local group troll.

If we cut every neurodivergent person with insane opinions and no
ability to let go of bad ideas out of the discussion, this group
basically wouldn't exist.

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#86153

Fromcross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Date2026-05-05 18:14 +0000
Message-ID<10tdc1i$5uj$3@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#86150
In article <20260505091009.00000911@gmail.com>,
John Ames  <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 5 May 2026 15:57:29 -0000 (UTC)
>Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Just for the record, you are arguing with the local group troll.
>
>If we cut every neurodivergent person with insane opinions and no
>ability to let go of bad ideas out of the discussion, this group
>basically wouldn't exist.

Perhaps.  But Lawrence really isn't worth anyone's time.  Either
he is only a troll, or he is simply an idiot.  Neither deserves
response.

	- Dan C.

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#86183

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-05-06 17:41 +0100
Message-ID<10tfr0d$1aqc9$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#86153
On 05/05/2026 19:14, Dan Cross wrote:
> In article <20260505091009.00000911@gmail.com>,
> John Ames  <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 May 2026 15:57:29 -0000 (UTC)
>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Just for the record, you are arguing with the local group troll.
>>
>> If we cut every neurodivergent person with insane opinions and no
>> ability to let go of bad ideas out of the discussion, this group
>> basically wouldn't exist.
> 
> Perhaps.  But Lawrence really isn't worth anyone's time.  Either
> he is only a troll, or he is simply an idiot.  Neither deserves
> response.
> 
He is kf here. After about 2 years of nothing of any interest, and 
plenty of time wasting

People who don't know and don't want to know and are not even amusing 
are splatted.

> 	- Dan C.
> 

-- 
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, 
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

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