Re: smart plugs???

From	The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc, alt.os.linux.mint
Subject	Re: smart plugs???
Date	2025-01-18 15:39 +0000
Organization	A little, after lunch
Message-ID	<vmghum$sghe$7@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <vmatqg$3gi7d$1@dont-email.me> <vmb1c7$3grs4$1@dont-email.me> <vme1k3$4c4v$2@dont-email.me> <vmf37b$cr46$2@dont-email.me> <slrnvonh7b.1a9s7.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 18/01/2025 15:12, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
>>> ... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
>>>
>>> The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
>>> construction ...
> 
> On 2025-01-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household
>> outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
>> electrician help to set it up.
> 
> If I remember correctly,
> 
> US home outlets are 120V 15A. So 1800W max.
> EU home outlets are 230V 10A, so 2300W max.
> UK home outlets are 230V 27A, so 6.2kW max.

No.

UK plush are fused by law at 13A max. 3kW. The outlets are not rated for 
more than that, and if used at that a lot may end up arcing

The *rings* to which they are connected are typically fused at 32A so 
that more than one appliance can use them.

Lighting circuits are typically limited to 16A.

More power is permitted if it is to a dedicated appliance and a 
dedicated circuit breaker.

The intention is as follows.
1/. The house will have a 60A or 100A fuse in the supply. This limits 
the maximum power the house can draw.
2/. Lights are wired on a star or daisy chain spur with the breaker 
representing the maximum safe current for the *wire*.
3/. Special appliances will get their own private circuit and breaker. 
Typically a cooker might be on a 45A spur, permanently wired in, but 
that is all that is on it, and the cable size must be matched to that.
4/. General purpose sockets are on 30A or 32A breakers and must be wired 
as a *ring*.  This means that te cable does not have to carry the full 
current. Any ring can delver about 7kW

Every socket is rated at 13A only, but you can have many many sockets on 
a ring. This limits appliances to 3kW normally.

The general principle is to fuse at the 'consumer unit' the central 
'fuse' box, to prevent *house* wiring catching fire ONLY.

The appliances are fused to protect *their * wiring

And the internals are also typically fused if electronic.

All user accessible sockets must be earthedm and the ring circuit 
ensures  diverse earth routes.

> 
> This is why electric tea kettles work so well in the UK.
> And if I remember, there is a fuse in the PLUG, so an appliance can
> have a cord with a smaller fuse if it doesn't need the full power.
> 
> This is why the UK plugs are so massively huge.
> 

Well they are not 'massively huge'.
And its a fair price to pay for probably the best wiring regulations in 
the world.
Britain doesn't often get stuff exactly right but this one is.

The US arrangements horrify me.

> But even in the US, a 20A outlet is not unusual.

Absolutely illegal in the UK. Except for specialist applications like 
maybe a EV charger.

> It does require a
> heavier wire gauge in the walls. And 240V with amperages from 10A
> to 50A is common for washing machines, laundry dryers, electric
> stoves and EV chargers. 

Horrifying. 50A for a washing machine? Not in the UK. 13A max unless you 
are on industrial three phase or it has a dedicated circuit assigned to 
it and is hard wired.

Unfortunately, the plugs allowed for them
> are a motley collection of incompatible versions. I wish they would
> allow the EU Schuko for 10A, and the UK socket for up to 30A.
> 
> 
No reason not to wire your house up for 220V and a british wiring 
system. And by british washing machines :-)

A guy I knew in S Africa wired his house with German sockets - he was 
German. I used UK extension leads to run my UK kit off when I was there.

-- 
I was brought up to believe that you should never give offence if you 
can avoid it; the new culture tells us you should always take offence if 
you can. There are now experts in the art of taking offence, indeed 
whole academic subjects, such as 'gender studies', devoted to it.

Sir Roger Scruton

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Thread

smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-15 16:32 +0000
  Re: smart plugs??? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-15 17:14 +0000
    Re: smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-18 09:28 +0000
  Re: smart plugs??? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2025-01-15 09:30 -0800
  Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-15 18:30 +0000
  Re: smart plugs??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2025-01-15 20:31 +0000
    Re: smart plugs??? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-15 20:35 +0000
      Re: smart plugs??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2025-01-17 10:43 +0000
    Re: smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-16 09:33 +0000
      Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-16 10:36 +0000
        Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-16 17:10 +0100
          Re: smart plugs??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-16 20:07 +0000
            Re: smart plugs??? Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2025-01-16 15:48 -0500
              Re: smart plugs??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-16 20:55 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-16 23:34 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-01-17 00:22 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-01-17 02:53 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-17 03:49 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-17 10:45 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-17 19:27 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-18 11:38 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 11:04 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-18 18:04 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-18 19:04 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-19 11:38 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-19 18:41 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-19 23:04 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-20 01:57 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-20 10:37 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-18 19:00 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-19 11:37 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-01-19 14:39 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-01-19 18:11 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-01-18 00:27 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-18 11:49 +0100
                Fitbit by Google (Re: smart plugs???) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-01-17 18:34 +0000
                Re: Fitbit by Google (Re: smart plugs???) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-17 20:40 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-17 10:40 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-17 10:37 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-17 16:46 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-17 15:47 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-17 19:15 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-18 11:37 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-18 19:14 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-19 11:40 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2025-01-19 11:31 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-19 23:01 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-19 18:51 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-19 23:06 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-17 19:05 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-01-18 00:27 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-18 11:47 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-17 19:02 +0000
              Re: smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-17 16:42 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-18 11:35 +0100
            Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-17 10:14 +0100
      Re: smart plugs??? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-01-16 13:45 +0000
      Re: smart plugs??? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-16 15:20 +0100
        Re: smart plugs??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-01-16 20:22 +0000
          Re: smart plugs??? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-16 22:28 +0100
          Re: smart plugs??? D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-17 10:14 +0100
            Re: smart plugs??? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-17 14:36 +0100
      Re: smart plugs??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-16 20:05 +0000
  Re: smart plugs??? Chris Elvidge <chris@internal.net> - 2025-01-16 12:24 +0000
    Re: smart plugs??? "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-01-16 08:25 -0500
      Re: smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-17 16:48 +0000
        Re: smart plugs??? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-18 02:21 +0000
          Re: smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-18 08:55 +0000
            Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 11:02 +0000
              Re: smart plugs??? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-18 14:13 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 13:46 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-18 20:55 +0100
                Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-19 13:22 +0000
                Re: smart plugs??? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-19 15:18 +0100
          Re: smart plugs??? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-18 11:19 +0000
            Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 11:25 +0000
          Re: smart plugs??? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-01-18 15:12 +0000
            Re: smart plugs??? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-01-18 15:31 +0000
            Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 15:39 +0000
            Re: smart plugs??? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-18 16:55 -0500
        Re: smart plugs??? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-17 21:46 -0500
          Re: smart plugs??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 11:01 +0000
            Re: smart plugs??? wicklowham <wicklowham.nospam@rfburns.eu> - 2025-01-18 13:00 +0000
  Re: smart plugs??? yossarian <<nomail@gmail.com>> - 2025-01-16 14:10 +0100
    Re: smart plugs??? Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-01-17 16:51 +0000
  Re: smart plugs??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-01-16 22:24 -0700

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