Groups > comp.os.linux.development.system > #515

Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--'

From	crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject	Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--'
Date	2013-07-17 02:21 -0600
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<ks5jrj$9cv$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <87wqosgpmi.fsf@araminta.anjou.terraraq.org.uk> <ks0gc4$fiu$1@dont-email.me> <87r4f0gllc.fsf@araminta.anjou.terraraq.org.uk> <ks34ll$pr2$1@dont-email.me> <slrnkub69r.2m9.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>

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On 07/16/2013 01:04 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-16, crankypuss wrote:
>
> [access(2)]
>
>> I get the idea from
>> other comments in the documentation that the presence of access in linux
>> is motivated politically rather than technically, that it's part of the
>> requirements for a posix certification or something.
>
> That's one way of putting it, but a bit misleading.  The reason it
> exists is /practical/: you don't remove a system calls which has
> existed since the 1980s, even if you think they are misdesigned.
>
> /Jorgen
>

Although I definitely understand and fully support the idea that you 
don't go around breaking existing code just to make the world tidier, I 
also feel that it's a mistake to retain B.A.D. (broken-as-designed) 
functionality for the sake of an existing codebase.

I hesitate to mention Microsoft Windows but it is a good example of the 
damage that can occur when compatability with existing code becomes more 
important than fixing what needs to be fixed.  They started out with a 
poorly designed single-user monitor, and in order to maintain 
compatability with existing code they never really did fix things (at 
least up to the point where I walked away in disgust).

It would be sad indeed to see linux go down that same wretched path... 
not that it is even in the same ballpark, but it is not yet perfect and 
it will never reach that goal if incompatible changes are 
philosophically disallowed; nor will it continue to improve if 
incompatible changes are allowed to drive people away because they are 
excessively disruptive.

Linux picked up a lot of concepts from Unix but imo Unix has never been 
quite perfect and ancestor worship is not going to benefit linux in the 
long run.  It could be that it takes a few decades for the awkward 
design characteristics of a system to become obvious and then move past 
obviousness to become annoying enough to provoke someone to fix them. 
But if, when they reach that point, they are left in place as they were, 
that basically amounts to the end of growth and the beginning of old 
age's decline.

There are design flaws inherent in the Unix architecture/mechanism that 
run very deep and seem to have been picked up by linux either unnoticed, 
or noticed and justified by limited resource availability.

Maybe the only way to keep the software arts moving forward is to 
collect what we have learned and throw away existing implementations 
every few decades, or maybe we are forever doomed to carry along 
annoyances from the past, I don't claim to know one way or the other.

It does seem to me that it might be time to build a new abstraction 
layer that can become a more consistent intermediary between existing 
code and fixed code, but that involves a huge amount of work.

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"Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Alex Vinokur <alex.vinokur@gmail.com> - 2012-10-02 07:05 -0700
  Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2012-10-02 15:09 +0100
    Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Alex Vinokur <alex.vinokur@gmail.com> - 2012-10-02 07:20 -0700
      Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2012-10-02 20:14 +0300
        Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Alex Vinokur <alex.vinokur@gmail.com> - 2012-10-02 10:46 -0700
          Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with   permissions '-r--r--r--' Josef Moellers <josef.moellers@invalid.invalid> - 2012-10-03 12:39 +0200
            Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-11 01:53 +0300
            Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-11 01:58 +0300
      Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2012-10-02 20:08 +0100
        Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-10-02 21:44 +0000
          Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Alex Vinokur <alex.vinokur@gmail.com> - 2012-10-02 23:16 -0700
          Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2012-10-03 09:35 +0100
  Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' a.c.kalker@gmail.com - 2013-07-14 06:08 -0700
    Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2013-07-14 17:08 +0000
    Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2013-07-15 02:41 -0600
      Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2013-07-15 10:06 +0000
    Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-15 10:05 +0100
      Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2013-07-15 03:51 -0600
        Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-15 11:32 +0100
          Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2013-07-16 03:50 -0600
            Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-16 11:29 +0100
              Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2013-07-16 04:53 -0600
                Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2013-07-16 13:06 +0100
                Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2013-07-17 01:52 -0600
            Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2013-07-16 19:04 +0000
              Re: "Permission denied" while reading file /proc/<pid>/maps with permissions '-r--r--r--' crankypuss <crankypuss@nomail.invalid> - 2013-07-17 02:21 -0600

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