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Re: Apple GUI Bug

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On May 10, 2026 at 11:19:10 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10trscu$tabj$2@dont-email.me>:

> On 11 May 2026 05:50:32 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> 
>> If you think in terms of applications it is intuitive.
> 
> This is all just speculation on your part. Nobody from Apple’s UI
> group has ever explained the rationale behind this.

It is Application centric. If you think in terms of applications it makes
sense.

Again: I think in terms of documents. I get the distaste for it (even if only
a minor issue, as far as I can see).
> 
> But I think I have an explanation, in the form of the usual
> “historical reasons” -- it’s a hangover from the original 1980s MacOS.
> If you remember, that was single-tasking. So it was quite possible to
> have an app running with no windows open, and this was less likely to
> confuse the user, since the desktop would be completely blank, while
> the menubar still gave a hint that an application was running. The
> reason for allowing this was it often took significant time for an app
> to start up, so it made sense to keep it running until the user
> explicitly quit it.

Fair.
> 
> When multitasking was added to MacOS, this legacy behaviour simply
> continued on. It was now potentially more confusing, but the saving of
> time restarting an app that the user didn’t want to quit still
> applied.

And there was a cost to switching apps that is not really an issue these days.

>  And when MacOS was replaced by OS X/macOS, something of the
> original GUI underpinnings must have been carried over. Why? For the
> usual reason: it was easier to leave things that way than try to
> figure out how to fix the code.

I think they redid the code. But they kept the behavior to make the new OS
feel like the old. Except they moved to a browser-like Finder.
> 
> Unix systems, on the other hand, were multitasking right from the
> beginning. So they never felt the need to implement such a concept.

Could be. That and the difference in menus... which does push toward thinking
of apps (you can have an open app with no document)
> 
>> Where do you think they are more document centric?
> 
> *Were* -- back when they were championing OpenDoc.

Ok. If I recall, the idea was to have a document which could be tied to
multiple apps... you could have a spreadsheet in Pages which feels very much
like Numbers, etc. Still have that to some extent with Word and Numbers and
the like, but not in the same way. But Apple, as you noted, moved away from
that.


-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

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Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 20:05 +0000
  Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-10 20:34 +0000
    Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:41 +0000
      Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-10 22:58 +0000
        Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:07 +0000
          Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-10 23:42 +0000
  Re: Apple GUI Bug CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-05-10 17:45 -0400
    Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-10 22:36 +0000
      Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:38 +0000
        Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-10 23:03 +0000
          Re: Apple GUI Bug Jim <slimjimmy1959@yahoomail.com> - 2026-05-10 23:47 +0000
            Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 00:08 +0000
  Re: Apple GUI Bug Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-05-10 22:56 -0400
    Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 03:26 +0000
    Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 03:27 +0000
      Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 05:18 +0000
        Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 05:42 +0000
          Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 05:50 +0000
            Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 06:19 +0000
              Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 06:44 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-12 02:46 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 03:04 +0000
          Re: Apple GUI Bug Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-05-11 11:34 -0700
            Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 18:47 +0000
              Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 18:59 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 19:25 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 22:40 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-11 22:53 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-12 02:50 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 03:07 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-12 07:09 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Chris <Christech@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-12 01:41 +0000
                Re: Apple GUI Bug Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 01:45 +0000
  Re: Apple GUI Bug Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-05-10 21:42 -0700

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