Groups > comp.mobile.android > #141174 > unrolled thread

Why are iPhone videos clear when sent to iPhones but blurry when sent to Android?

Started by	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
First post	2024-05-16 22:12 +0000
Last post	2024-05-18 17:03 +0000
Articles	20 on this page of 94 — 10 participants

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#141240

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-18 00:35 +0000
Message-ID	<laqbf0Fslv5U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141235

On 2024-05-17, Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
> On May 17, 2024 at 7:20:23 PM EDT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>> I don't know where the (resolution) shrinking of the video is done,
>>> but I assume it's done on the iPhone. Doing it on other servers
>>> would mean a huge waste of - possibly very costly - mobile data.
>> 
>> No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
>> happens on the receiving cellular network.
>
> What seems to be missing in this discussion is that this happens in
> both directions. From Android to iPhone also. Is the "shrinking" then
> done on the Android phone? 
>
> No.  The compression happens over the cell network. 
>
> So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to
> Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"

The answer is obvious: For the same reason videos sent from iPhones to
iPhones are clear - they aren't sent as MMS messages.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#141264

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-18 12:15 +0000
Message-ID	<v2a64d$o86$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141240

Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 00:35:44 GMT :

>> So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to
>> Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
> 
> The answer is obvious: For the same reason videos sent from iPhones to
> iPhones are clear - they aren't sent as MMS messages.

It's not as obvious to me since nobody has yet explained why it's not
symmetric. If it was all due to the carrier, why isn't it symmetric?

  "Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression, 
   but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or 
   from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."

 <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>

When MacWorld says "Apple's system gets in the way", what do they mean?

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#141272

From	Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date	2024-05-18 09:26 -0700
Message-ID	<v2akrc$2rtp2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#141264

On 2024-05-18 05:15, Andrew wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 00:35:44 GMT :
> 
>>> So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to
>>> Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
>>
>> The answer is obvious: For the same reason videos sent from iPhones to
>> iPhones are clear - they aren't sent as MMS messages.
> 
> It's not as obvious to me since nobody has yet explained why it's not
> symmetric. If it was all due to the carrier, why isn't it symmetric?
> 
>    "Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression,
>     but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or
>     from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."
> 
>   <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>
> 
> When MacWorld says "Apple's system gets in the way", what do they mean?

They mean that when sending video messages to a GROUP, iOS devices use 
SMS/MMS for everyone IN THE GROUP, you simpleton.

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#141255

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2024-05-18 14:00 +1200
Message-ID	<v2923c$2j8v7$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#141235

On 2024-05-17 23:41:41 +0000, Tyrone said:
> On May 17, 2024 at 7:20:23 PM EDT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't know where the (resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but 
>>> I assume it's done on the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean 
>>> a huge waste of - possibly very costly - mobile data.
>> 
>> No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
>> happens on the receiving cellular network.
> 
> What seems to be missing in this discussion is that this happens in both
> directions. From Android to iPhone also. Is the "shrinking" then done on the
> Android phone?
> 
> No.  The compression happens over the cell network.
> 
> So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to Android
> phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"

Because the vidoe compression happens as part of the cellular network 
system, independently of the users' devices, so a video sent by SMS 
(more precisely MMS) will be blurry no matter what device the receiver 
is using - it will be blurry on iPhones, Android phones, WindowsOS 
phones, etc. Everyone has simply gotten used to SMS video  being blurry.

The problem is noticeable when the video from an iPhone is sent 
automatically via Messages to another iPhone *and* compared to it being 
automatically sent via SMS to an Android device. Similarly when a video 
sent by any device using another messaging app compared to it being 
sent by SMS.

Basically MMS is crap, but then it is old tech from 1984 and by 
agreement works on any capable cellular device from tiny screen dumb 
phones upwards and via the old slow telcoms systems (which is why it 
gets heavily compressed in the first place).

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#141265

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-18 12:19 +0000
Message-ID	<v2a6ck$1l5n$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141255

Your Name wrote on Sat, 18 May 2024 14:00:12 +1200 :

> Because the vidoe compression happens as part of the cellular network 
> system, independently of the users' devices, so a video sent by SMS 
> (more precisely MMS) will be blurry no matter what device the receiver 
> is using - it will be blurry on iPhones, Android phones, WindowsOS 
> phones, etc. Everyone has simply gotten used to SMS video  being blurry.
> 
> The problem is noticeable when the video from an iPhone is sent 
> automatically via Messages to another iPhone *and* compared to it being 
> automatically sent via SMS to an Android device. Similarly when a video 
> sent by any device using another messaging app compared to it being 
> sent by SMS.
> 
> Basically MMS is crap, but then it is old tech from 1984 and by 
> agreement works on any capable cellular device from tiny screen dumb 
> phones upwards and via the old slow telcoms systems (which is why it 
> gets heavily compressed in the first place).

But if it was all due to the carrier, then it would be symmetric, right?
Yet it's not.

 "Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression, 
   but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or 
   from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."
 <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>

When MacWorld says "Apple's system gets in the way" to explain
why Android-to-Android is less blurry than Android-to-iOS 
or iOS-to-Android, what is causing that lack of symmetry?

It's not the carrier.
It's Apple (according to MacWorld).

But what is Apple doing to cause that extra blurriness?
I don't know.

Do you?

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#141273

From	Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date	2024-05-18 09:27 -0700
Message-ID	<v2aksr$2rtp2$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#141265

On 2024-05-18 05:19, Andrew wrote:
> Your Name wrote on Sat, 18 May 2024 14:00:12 +1200 :
> 
>> Because the vidoe compression happens as part of the cellular network
>> system, independently of the users' devices, so a video sent by SMS
>> (more precisely MMS) will be blurry no matter what device the receiver
>> is using - it will be blurry on iPhones, Android phones, WindowsOS
>> phones, etc. Everyone has simply gotten used to SMS video  being blurry.
>>
>> The problem is noticeable when the video from an iPhone is sent
>> automatically via Messages to another iPhone *and* compared to it being
>> automatically sent via SMS to an Android device. Similarly when a video
>> sent by any device using another messaging app compared to it being
>> sent by SMS.
>>
>> Basically MMS is crap, but then it is old tech from 1984 and by
>> agreement works on any capable cellular device from tiny screen dumb
>> phones upwards and via the old slow telcoms systems (which is why it
>> gets heavily compressed in the first place).
> 
> But if it was all due to the carrier, then it would be symmetric, right?
> Yet it's not.
> 
>   "Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression,
>     but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or
>     from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."
>   <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>
> 
> When MacWorld says "Apple's system gets in the way" to explain
> why Android-to-Android is less blurry than Android-to-iOS
> or iOS-to-Android, what is causing that lack of symmetry?
> 
> It's not the carrier.
> It's Apple (according to MacWorld).

You're just a liar, Arlen.

That is NOT what the MacWorld article says.

> 
> But what is Apple doing to cause that extra blurriness?
> I don't know.
> 
> Do you?

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#141263

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-18 12:11 +0000
Message-ID	<v2a5tl$man$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141235

Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 23:41:41 +0000 :

>> No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
>> happens on the receiving cellular network.
> 
> What seems to be missing in this discussion is that this happens in both
> directions. From Android to iPhone also. Is the "shrinking" then done on the
> Android phone? 
> 
> No.  The compression happens over the cell network. 
> 
> So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to Android
> phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"

First off, your point is valid that the problem works both ways because the
two platforms default messaging systems are fundamentally incompatible.
 *The green bubble of death*
 <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>
 "That carefully edited HD clip you took on your new iPhone was reduced 
  to an unwatchable sludge once it reached your friend's phone. 
  And the same is true of the videos they send you."

Notice they say that Android to Android isn't as bad as going 
from Android to iOS or from iOS to Android - which is new information.

It's not symmetric!
 "Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression, 
  but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or from 
  Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."

If it was all due to the carrier, wouldn't it be symmetric?

Learning more, it just get worse, apparently, in group messages:
 "The phenomenon can also affect group messages. If one of the recipients 
  in your group is on an Android phone, then the entire message will 
  be sent over SMS. Hence, all users will see blurry, barely 
  watchable videos, even iPhone users with iMessages enabled."

I didn't think about that until now - so it's worse than I had thought.

Again, I will speak to you as an adult since you responded to me as an
adult (although the response above wasn't directly addressed to me).

Along the vein of trying to figure this out logically, my Android phone has
a setting in my default messaging app for how much to compress media.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/nL8052Vj/pulsesms04.jpg>

I noticed that it's only for "images" and it says "Do not set this higher
than what your carrier allows" underneath the setting for compression.

But I think that's only because the (last known good but old) version of
PulseSMS I'm using probably doesn't even upload video files to MMS.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/ZR4jYqdJ/pulsesms05.jpg>

I will be very clear that I do not know where the compression occurs, and I
will state that is an important fact that we need to iron out (with cites)
in order to understand why videos sent between platforms are blurry.
 <https://duckduckgo.com/?hps=1&q=where+are+videos+compressed+when+sending+from+ios+to+android>

One hit proves iPhone to iPhone messages skip the carrier altogether.
 <https://www.androidpolice.com/why-text-message-videos-look-blurry-how-to-fix/>
 "Apple's Message platform has a less restrictive file size limit, around
  100MB. Since messages sent between iPhones never leave Apple's servers"

It doesn't say WHERE the compression occurs, but it say that "carriers
enforce the file size limits", which implies the carrier is doing it.

Looking at other hits, I find one that does say the carrier did it!
 <https://www.alphr.com/android-sending-grainy-video-in-iphone-group/>
 "a video file sent from Android to iOS via MMS (Multimedia Messaging
  Service) is usually compressed by your cell phone carrier."

So, surprisingly, Jolly Roger's guess just may have been right after all.

Interestingly, the blurriness isn't symmetric between platforms.
 <https://appletoolbox.com/blurry-videos-when-sending-from-ios-to-android-check-these-tips/>
 "There's actually a very noticeable downgrade in quality when 
  sending content from an iOS device to and Android device. 
  That blurriness isn't as prevalent when sending media from 
  an Android to an Android. And it's non-existent when sending 
  from iPhone to iPhone (provided iMessage is enabled)."

Notice that the fact it's not symmetric should tell us something
important (but what?). 

If it was only the carrier, wouldn't it be symmetric?

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#141266

From	Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date	2024-05-18 13:22 +0100
Message-ID	<larkraF3mvcU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141263

Andrew wrote:

> your point is valid that the problem works both ways because the
> two platforms default messaging systems are fundamentally incompatible.

Let's see if it's still a problem after autumn(?) if/when iOS 18 gets 
RCS integration ...

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#141268

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-18 12:42 +0000
Message-ID	<v2a7n0$jm9$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141266

Andy Burns wrote on Sat, 18 May 2024 13:22:01 +0100 :

>> your point is valid that the problem works both ways because the
>> two platforms default messaging systems are fundamentally incompatible.
> 
> Let's see if it's still a problem after autumn(?) if/when iOS 18 gets 
> RCS integration ...

Thanks for that hopeful RCS cheer, where I was wondering how you were doing
since you haven't posted in a while. You're one of the most knowledgeable
on the Android newsgroup - so your advice has been sorely missed by me.

I don't hold high hopes for RCS for two reasons (but maybe I will be wrong
and that will solve the blurry video problems between Apple & Android).

1. Apple tends to implement to the letter of the law (not to the spirit)
2. I'd rather not use any Google app (so I hope others implement RCS)

We're still not out of the woods though with RCS, even if Apple finally
figures out how to implement RCS without losing its walled-garden
restrictions because Android to Android video compression is consistently
said to be a far less blurry result than going between platforms.

Why?
I don't know why.

All I know is that "Apple's system gets in the way" according to MacWorld.
 <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>

Does anyone know what that means in terms of what's happening?

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#141281

From	Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date	2024-05-18 10:30 -0700
Message-ID	<v2aok4$2srn5$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#141268

On 2024-05-18 05:42, Andrew wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote on Sat, 18 May 2024 13:22:01 +0100 :
> 
>>> your point is valid that the problem works both ways because the
>>> two platforms default messaging systems are fundamentally incompatible.
>>
>> Let's see if it's still a problem after autumn(?) if/when iOS 18 gets
>> RCS integration ...
> 
> Thanks for that hopeful RCS cheer, where I was wondering how you were doing
> since you haven't posted in a while. You're one of the most knowledgeable
> on the Android newsgroup - so your advice has been sorely missed by me.
> 
> I don't hold high hopes for RCS for two reasons (but maybe I will be wrong
> and that will solve the blurry video problems between Apple & Android).
> 
> 1. Apple tends to implement to the letter of the law (not to the spirit)
> 2. I'd rather not use any Google app (so I hope others implement RCS)
> 
> We're still not out of the woods though with RCS, even if Apple finally
> figures out how to implement RCS without losing its walled-garden
> restrictions because Android to Android video compression is consistently
> said to be a far less blurry result than going between platforms.

I love how you just make up shit from your limited understanding.

> 
> Why?
> I don't know why.
> 
> All I know is that "Apple's system gets in the way" according to MacWorld.
>   <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>
> 
> Does anyone know what that means in terms of what's happening?

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#141292

From	Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date	2024-05-19 17:53 +0000
Message-ID	<v2dlcc.nh0.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to	#141231

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> The two questions which need to be known to begin to understand the
> >> process well enough to solve it are those which trace the path of the
> >> video clip.
> >
> >   You can't "solve" it, without the *sender* using a *different*
> >   method to get the video to you, i.e. as has been mentioned, using
> >   some 'cloud' or other file transfer service.
> >
> >> 1. Is the video split up on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier
> >> servers?
> >
> >   With "split up", you mean the communication path is split, the video
> >   isn't split.
> >
> >   Answer: (As Carlos indicated,) On the iPhone. Your mobile number is
> >   in the sender's (i.e. iPhone) contacts. The Messages app on the
> >   iPhone sees it's a mobile phone number, so it decides to send a MMS
> >   message. As Carlos mentioned, the decision must be taken on the
> >   iPhone, because the cost of the MMS message (even if it comes out of
> >   a bundle) must be charged to the iPhone user's mobile provider
> 
> Close, but still incorrect. It's not about whether it's a phone number
> or not. It's about whether the recipient is an iMessage user. iMessage
> users can and do register their phone numbers as iMessage recipient
> numbers, and they can also register email addresses.

  Thanks for the correction. My wording was too strong, as it was an
assumption, not a fact, because I don't have/use an iPhone.

  My response was an extrapolation of how things work for WhatsApp.
WhatsApp has its own contact list, so it knows if a mobile phone number
is (also) a WhatsApp contact, or just a mobile phone number (i.e.
SMS/MMS).

> >> 2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
> >
> >   As we don't use MMS in the real world, 
> 
> MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still in
> use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as much as
> previous years, especially since more robust and feature-packed internet
> messaging apps gained popularity - but make no mistake, it is still used
> in the real world (and is what we are discussing in this very thread).

  My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only used
in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses modern Instant
Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the rest of the world, the
use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS is even rarer.

  This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these groups,
so please don't rehash it again.

> > I don't know where the
> > (resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but I assume it's done on
> > the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean a huge waste of -
> > possibly very costly - mobile data.
> 
> No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
> happens on the receiving cellular network.

  Thanks for the correction. I should have thought of that, because MMS
could also be used on 'dumb'/'feature'/'flip' phones, which would
unlikely have the capability to shrink the video.

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#141293

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-19 18:21 +0000
Message-ID	<lauu9oFisojU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141292

On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> > Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >> 2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
>> >
>> >   As we don't use MMS in the real world, 
>> 
>> MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still in
>> use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as much as
>> previous years, especially since more robust and feature-packed internet
>> messaging apps gained popularity - but make no mistake, it is still used
>> in the real world (and is what we are discussing in this very thread).
>
>   My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only used
> in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses modern Instant
> Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the rest of the world, the
> use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS is even rarer.
>
>   This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these groups,
> so please don't rehash it again.

Arlen is the one rehashing this yet again in the Apple newsgroups. We've
all been through this (and very similar) discussions with him before
here, but Arlen continues to harp on iMessage always in slightly
different contexts, and always in an attempt to cast Apple in a bad
light. Just because I was tired of his bullshit this time and spent time
correcting it doesn't mean I'm the one rehashing anything. 😉

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#141294

From	Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date	2024-05-19 18:52 +0000
Message-ID	<v2dor4.n9s.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to	#141293

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >> > Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> >> > [...]
> >> >> 2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
> >> >
> >> >   As we don't use MMS in the real world, 
> >> 
> >> MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still in
> >> use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as much as
> >> previous years, especially since more robust and feature-packed internet
> >> messaging apps gained popularity - but make no mistake, it is still used
> >> in the real world (and is what we are discussing in this very thread).
> >
> >   My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only used
> > in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses modern Instant
> > Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the rest of the world, the
> > use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS is even rarer.
> >
> >   This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these groups,
> > so please don't rehash it again.
> 
> Arlen is the one rehashing this yet again in the Apple newsgroups. We've
> all been through this (and very similar) discussions with him before
> here, but Arlen continues to harp on iMessage always in slightly
> different contexts, and always in an attempt to cast Apple in a bad
> light. Just because I was tired of his bullshit this time and spent time
> correcting it doesn't mean I'm the one rehashing anything. ?

  Sorry. Mixup.
  
  I meant not rehashing the use of MMS. Because it's *not* "still in use
by people all over the world today". Yes, you added "though certainly
not as much as previous years", but those "previous years" are more like
a decade (or more), because in the rest of the world, especially the
'western' world, the use of MMS has been close to zero for many, many
years.

  Thanks again for your corrections on my assumptions/guesses.

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#141298

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2024-05-19 19:10 +0000
Message-ID	<lav151FjfemU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141294

On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >> On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> >> > Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>> >> > [...]
>> >> >> 2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or
>> >> >> carrier servers?
>> >> >
>> >> >   As we don't use MMS in the real world, 
>> >> 
>> >> MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still
>> >> in use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as
>> >> much as previous years, especially since more robust and
>> >> feature-packed internet messaging apps gained popularity - but
>> >> make no mistake, it is still used in the real world (and is what
>> >> we are discussing in this very thread).
>> >
>> >   My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only
>> >   used in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses
>> >   modern Instant Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the
>> >   rest of the world, the use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS
>> >   is even rarer.
>> >
>> >   This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these
>> >   groups, so please don't rehash it again.
>> 
>> Arlen is the one rehashing this yet again in the Apple newsgroups.
>> We've all been through this (and very similar) discussions with him
>> before here, but Arlen continues to harp on iMessage always in
>> slightly different contexts, and always in an attempt to cast Apple
>> in a bad light. Just because I was tired of his bullshit this time
>> and spent time correcting it doesn't mean I'm the one rehashing
>> anything. ?
>
>   Sorry. Mixup.
>   
>   I meant not rehashing the use of MMS. Because it's *not* "still in
>   use by people all over the world today". Yes, you added "though
>   certainly not as much as previous years", but those "previous years"
>   are more like a decade (or more), because in the rest of the world,
>   especially the 'western' world, the use of MMS has been close to
>   zero for many, many years.

That's simply untrue. Just last weekend, my mom told me her friend who
uses an Android phone asked her why a video from someone else came
through very low quality, and I had to explain to her that the video was
sent as an MMS. People do still use SMS/MMS messaging today. It's not
nearly as popular as it once was, but people do still use it:

<https://www.statista.com/statistics/185879/number-of-text-messages-in-the-united-states-since-2005/>

That's only the United States. Globally the number is way larger:

<https://www.sellcell.com/blog/how-many-text-messages-are-sent-a-day-2023-statistics/>

>   Thanks again for your corrections on my assumptions/guesses.

Welcome, though I'm mainly participating to combat Arlen's trolling and
disinformation.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141315

From	Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date	2024-05-20 14:53 +0000
Message-ID	<v2fv6b.ok8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to	#141298

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> >> On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> > Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> >> >> > [...]
> >> >> >> 2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or
> >> >> >> carrier servers?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   As we don't use MMS in the real world, 
> >> >> 
> >> >> MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still
> >> >> in use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as
> >> >> much as previous years, especially since more robust and
> >> >> feature-packed internet messaging apps gained popularity - but
> >> >> make no mistake, it is still used in the real world (and is what
> >> >> we are discussing in this very thread).
> >> >
> >> >   My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only
> >> >   used in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses
> >> >   modern Instant Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the
> >> >   rest of the world, the use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS
> >> >   is even rarer.
> >> >
> >> >   This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these
> >> >   groups, so please don't rehash it again.
> >> 
> >> Arlen is the one rehashing this yet again in the Apple newsgroups.
> >> We've all been through this (and very similar) discussions with him
> >> before here, but Arlen continues to harp on iMessage always in
> >> slightly different contexts, and always in an attempt to cast Apple
> >> in a bad light. Just because I was tired of his bullshit this time
> >> and spent time correcting it doesn't mean I'm the one rehashing
> >> anything. ?
> >
> >   Sorry. Mixup.
> >   
> >   I meant not rehashing the use of MMS. Because it's *not* "still in
> >   use by people all over the world today". Yes, you added "though
> >   certainly not as much as previous years", but those "previous years"
> >   are more like a decade (or more), because in the rest of the world,
> >   especially the 'western' world, the use of MMS has been close to
> >   zero for many, many years.
> 
> That's simply untrue. Just last weekend, my mom told me her friend who
> uses an Android phone asked her why a video from someone else came
> through very low quality, and I had to explain to her that the video was
> sent as an MMS. People do still use SMS/MMS messaging today. It's not
> nearly as popular as it once was, but people do still use it:

  Yes, in the *US*, MMS is still used, that's why I said:

<Me>
> >> >   My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only
> >> >   used in the US (and NA?), ...
</Me>

> <https://www.statista.com/statistics/185879/number-of-text-messages-in-the-united-states-since-2005/>

  That's for text (SMS) and MMS. They don't say how much of that is MMS.

> That's only the United States. Globally the number is way larger:
> 
> <https://www.sellcell.com/blog/how-many-text-messages-are-sent-a-day-2023-statistics/>

  Same problem.

  Anyway, I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.

  As a - meaningless - data point: I have never sent or received a MMS
message and have never seen others in our country (The Netherlands)
sending or receiving them. Just too awkward and (often) expensive.

> >   Thanks again for your corrections on my assumptions/guesses.
> 
> Welcome, though I'm mainly participating to combat Arlen's trolling and
> disinformation.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141317

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-20 16:45 +0000
Message-ID	<v2fun0$1mf1$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141315

Frank Slootweg wrote on 20 May 2024 14:53:38 GMT :

>   Anyway, I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
> person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
> they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.
> 
>   As a - meaningless - data point: I have never sent or received a MMS
> message and have never seen others in our country (The Netherlands)
> sending or receiving them. Just too awkward and (often) expensive.

Success!
 Apple w/o interoperability <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
 WhatsApp w interoperability <https://i.postimg.cc/QMGrqLb9/clear.jpg>

We have worked around the problem of Apple/Android interoperability.

Our first attempt using an iPad failed, but for a reason that nobody had
mentioned, which is that setting up the Messages on the iPad automatically
REMOVED that user from her Android cellphone in the chat. 

We should have used a different cellphone number but Apple didn't let us
have that choice. (I guess we can go back and change it to an imaginary
phone number but I'm not sure because we got frustrated with Apple).

I hadn't thought about that problem ahead of time, but it's yet another
Apple issue that if you have your phone registered to both your iPad and
Android, even over Wi-Fi, Apple's messaging server will only send the video
message to the iPad and not to the Android. Apple can't do both.

After that attempt using the Apple messaging system failed, we ditched the
Apple messaging system altogether - which will be our workaround for now.

When the great grandchildren want to send videos to the family group,
they'll be sending them through WhatsApp from now on, avoiding Apple
messaging altogether. (Since we're in the USA, we'll only need to use 
WhatsApp when sending messages between Apple & Android devices.)   

(If everyone did this, Apple might finally decide to interoperate.)

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#141344

From	Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date	2024-05-21 10:04 -0700
Message-ID	<v2ik7m$miii$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#141317

On 2024-05-20 09:45, Andrew wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote on 20 May 2024 14:53:38 GMT :
> 
>>    Anyway, I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
>> person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
>> they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.
>>
>>    As a - meaningless - data point: I have never sent or received a MMS
>> message and have never seen others in our country (The Netherlands)
>> sending or receiving them. Just too awkward and (often) expensive.
> 
> Success!
>   Apple w/o interoperability <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
>   WhatsApp w interoperability <https://i.postimg.cc/QMGrqLb9/clear.jpg>
> 
> We have worked around the problem of Apple/Android interoperability.

There is no such problem.

> 
> Our first attempt using an iPad failed, but for a reason that nobody had
> mentioned, which is that setting up the Messages on the iPad automatically
> REMOVED that user from her Android cellphone in the chat.

Registering a phone number with iMessage means that other iMessage users 
will be sending iMessages to that number.

'You may need to turn off iMessage if you are now using a non-Apple 
phone and cannot get SMS or text messages someone sends you from an iPhone.'

<https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/>

This is a CHOICE YOU MAKE.

> 
> We should have used a different cellphone number but Apple didn't let us
> have that choice. (I guess we can go back and change it to an imaginary
> phone number but I'm not sure because we got frustrated with Apple).

You not understanding how your technology works and then blaming Apple 
for it is pretty much your entire brand.

> 
> I hadn't thought about that problem ahead of time, but it's yet another

You? Not thinking? Colour me shocked.

> Apple issue that if you have your phone registered to both your iPad and
> Android, even over Wi-Fi, Apple's messaging server will only send the video
> message to the iPad and not to the Android. Apple can't do both.

Apple makes the assumption that you want to use your Apple devices when 
you register a phone number for iMessage use.

You didn't have to to:

YOU CHOSE TO.

> 
> After that attempt using the Apple messaging system failed, we ditched the
> Apple messaging system altogether - which will be our workaround for now.

Or you could just unregister the phone number...

'No longer have your iPhone?

Follow the steps below to deregister your phone number.'

<https://selfsolve.apple.com/deregister-imessage/>



> 
> When the great grandchildren want to send videos to the family group,
> they'll be sending them through WhatsApp from now on, avoiding Apple
> messaging altogether. (Since we're in the USA, we'll only need to use
> WhatsApp when sending messages between Apple & Android devices.)
> 
> (If everyone did this, Apple might finally decide to interoperate.)

There is no way to "interoperate" with SMS/MMS messaging.

The limits are imposed BY THE CARRIERS.

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#141318

From	Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date	2024-05-20 17:53 +0100
Message-ID	<lb1dfrFu2fjU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141315

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
> person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
> they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.

I have sent less than a dozen, ever (too expensive) and received maybe 
double that, none from outside the UK.

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#141319

From	Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Date	2024-05-20 17:03 +0000
Message-ID	<v2fvpi$16om$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
In reply to	#141318

Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 20 May 2024 17:53:12 +0100 :

>> I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
>> person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
>> they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.
> 
> I have sent less than a dozen, ever (too expensive) and received maybe 
> double that, none from outside the UK.

I think you people across the Pond actually pay less than we do, in
general, for our cellular services, don't you?

I pay about $30 a month lately for each of four phones in my plan.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> 

With that I pretty much get unlimited everything, which is why I didn't
worry about using MMS until the great grandchild was born recently.

At that point, I started getting millions of fuzzy videos from Apple owners
(the new parents are all on Apple products only) which was my introduction
to the MMS problem that you've told me about long ago that RCS may solve.

Here's what an MMS video looks like when sent by the Apple Messages app.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>

Here are those same videos when we completely ditched Apple's Messages app.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/QMGrqLb9/clear.jpg>

Just as ditching iTunes on Windows _added_ functionality (i.e., iTunes
removes functionality from Windows the instant that you install it)...
 <https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg>

Ditching Apple's Messages app instantly _increased_ our functionality.

BTW, Andy, do you have any idea how to work around the problem that arose
when we set up an iPad to use Messages, where the problem was Apple is
incapable of sending the message BOTH to the Android & iPad over Wi-Fi?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#141322

From	Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date	2024-05-20 20:18 +0100
Message-ID	<lb1m0cF1703U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#141319

Andrew wrote:

> I think you people across the Pond actually pay less than we do, in
> general, for our cellular services, don't you?

Generally it feels like it, I pay for SIM only, so no bundled cost for 
handset.

> I pay about $30 a month lately for each of four phones in my plan.
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>

GBP8/month for 20GB data, wifi calling, unlimited SMS, unlimited minutes 
to mobiles and "normal" landlines.

> With that I pretty much get unlimited everything, which is why I didn't
> worry about using MMS until the great grandchild was born recently.

we pay about GBP 0.5 per MMS

> BTW, Andy, do you have any idea how to work around the problem that arose
> when we set up an iPad to use Messages, where the problem was Apple is
> incapable of sending the message BOTH to the Android & iPad over Wi-Fi?

No sorry, I have close to zero knowledge of iPads.

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csiph-web

Why are iPhone videos clear when sent to iPhones but blurry when sent to Android?

Contents

#141240

#141264

#141272

#141255

#141265

#141273

#141263

#141266

#141268

#141281

#141292

#141293

#141294

#141298

#141315

#141317

#141344

#141318

#141319

#141322