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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #141141 > unrolled thread
| Started by | sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-05-15 17:10 -0700 |
| Last post | 2024-05-18 07:51 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 57 — 13 participants |
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Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-15 17:10 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document "Jan K." <janicekoziol@nie.ma.spamu.prosze.com> - 2024-05-16 04:03 +0200
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2024-05-16 14:25 +1200
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2024-05-16 09:49 +0200
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 10:28 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-16 13:28 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 15:32 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-16 19:29 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-17 18:12 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-17 18:11 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Gordinator <gordinator@gordinator.org> - 2024-05-16 20:22 +0100
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> - 2024-05-16 20:10 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-16 20:17 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Gordinator <gordinator@gordinator.org> - 2024-05-16 21:57 +0100
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-16 21:17 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Gordinator <gordinator@gordinator.org> - 2024-05-16 22:25 +0100
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-16 20:12 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Gordinator <gordinator@gordinator.org> - 2024-05-16 22:24 +0100
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-16 23:49 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-17 19:34 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-17 13:18 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-17 20:54 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-17 13:55 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2024-05-17 17:04 -0500
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-17 15:54 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-05-17 23:37 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-18 00:26 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-17 18:00 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-22 09:33 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-22 16:27 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-05-24 10:30 -0400
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-24 15:53 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-24 18:07 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-05-26 14:38 -0400
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-05-22 11:07 -0400
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-24 09:44 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-24 18:08 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-05-26 13:05 -0400
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-26 13:52 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-26 13:54 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2024-05-17 18:22 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-18 12:59 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-18 10:29 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2024-05-18 17:07 -0500
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-18 15:39 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-05-19 10:02 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-19 10:00 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-19 18:56 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-05-19 19:02 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-19 19:18 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-05-19 19:27 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-19 19:29 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-05-19 19:32 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andrew <andrew@spam.net> - 2024-05-19 20:07 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2024-05-19 22:36 +0000
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2024-05-19 19:30 -0700
Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-05-18 07:51 +0100
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-17 13:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v28e2b$2bpek$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141210 |
On 2024-05-17 12:34, Frank Slootweg wrote: > Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote: > [...] >> My Android phones are all free from T-Mobile and they all have the aux >> jack, the FM radio, and the all important portable-storage sd slot. >> >> Most iPhone users think the portable storage slot is only for extending the >> internal memory - but it's also portable storage - which they can't do. >> (Apple wants them to pay for the iCloud so they can save pictures & video.) > > I know you like to tout the SD card 'slot' on Android phones, but IMO > using them for *portable* storage, while possible, is not very > convenient. > > Much too much fiddling to get the MicroSD card out of a miniscule > 'slot' or 'tray' (your Samsung Galaxy A53 probably has a 'tray' (my A51 > has)) and insert it in the miniscule 'slot' or 'tray' of the destination > device. > > For portable storage, it's much easier to plug a (compatible) > memory-stick into the USB or Lightning port. There are many such > memory-sticks, most with dual plugs of different types (USB-A, USB-C, > Micro-USB, Lightning). Yes, more expensive than a MicroSD card, but > much, much more convenient. > > But I understand *why* you are touting the SD card slot on Android > phones, because only Android phones have them, while the memory-stick > approach also works on iDevices, so that ruins your troll! :-) > > [...] Not to mention just directly transferring the data.
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| From | Andrew <andrew@spam.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-17 20:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <v28g6p$5f5$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #141210 |
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:34:44 GMT :
>> My Android phones are all free from T-Mobile and they all have the aux
>> jack, the FM radio, and the all important portable-storage sd slot.
>>
>> Most iPhone users think the portable storage slot is only for extending the
>> internal memory - but it's also portable storage - which they can't do.
>> (Apple wants them to pay for the iCloud so they can save pictures & video.)
>
> I know you like to tout the SD card 'slot' on Android phones, but IMO
> using them for *portable* storage, while possible, is not very
> convenient.
Thank you for understanding that I _love_ that more than half of all
Android phones in use today still have the SD slot, the aux jack and the FM
radio (if not the removable battery - which I loved just as much as those).
> Much too much fiddling to get the MicroSD card out of a miniscule
> 'slot' or 'tray' (your Samsung Galaxy A53 probably has a 'tray' (my A51
> has)) and insert it in the miniscule 'slot' or 'tray' of the destination
> device.
While that is true, what I do is use the PC to set the volume label of the
sd card to "0000-0001" for _all_ my sdcards on _all_ my phones, which is
genius when you realize what that simple act of reformatting allows us.
Notice that EVERY sd card looks alike to Android, so I can pop my sd card
out of my phone and pop it into another phone, and the apps all look at the
same data (which makes migration to a new phone super easy, especially as I
had to return my Samsung Galaxy A32-5G three times to T-Mobile under
warranty because I was rough on the phone - and because I use adb on it).
Do you see the genius in that, Frank>?
1. I use my last known good version of Nova to save my homescreen
2. I use Aurora to automatically save every app I ever installed
3. And I keep everything of value that I can in a sub folder of the
sd card in all cases, which is /storage/0000-0001/0001/{folders}.
At some point I screwed up the USB-C port (by sleeping on the phone with
the cord plugged in) and T-Mobile replaced it for free (waiving the $20
store replacement procedure by crediting $20 to my bill).
It was trivial to reload the phone exactly as it was prior, with all the
exact apps and their exact versions and their exact locations. The only
thing that had problems were some of the shortcuts, which I never did debug
since it was easy enough to make shortcuts to activities inside apps.
Then I used adb too aggressively (or, I don't know, something else) but the
phone was bricked at one point, so T-Mobile checked it at the store, and by
now it was a $25 warranty fee which T-Mobile also credited my bill for.
This time everything came over perfectly and all the map data, for example,
and pictures, and encrypted database, and the webdav servers, etc., worked
just fine because the phone was using the sd card and all my sd cards are
formatted with the volume label of "0000-0001" so they look alike to the
phone and more importantly (since the phone doesn't care what the volume
label is) they look exactly alike to the apps that use the sd card.
> For portable storage, it's much easier to plug a (compatible)
> memory-stick into the USB or Lightning port. There are many such
> memory-sticks, most with dual plugs of different types (USB-A, USB-C,
> Micro-USB, Lightning).
I understand what you're saying but that's not necessarily portable
storage, at least the way I'm using the word portable for sd cards.
What I mean by portable sd card storage is I can crush my phone to bits,
but as long as the sd card is intact, I can reload another phone with the
same apps (using the nova backup/restore) and when I plug the sd card into
that brand new Android phone, everythign works *exactly* as it did prior!
Note: Everything stored on the sd card, which is as much as I can
put on it given it's multiple times the default storage size.
For example, all the map apps which have map data on the sd card in
the /storage/0000-0001/0001/map/osmand/{data} location, still work.
The camera still sees all the old photos. The webdav servers sill see the
same WebDAVWWW root directory. The files apps see the same folders. etc.
That's damn portable, don't you think?
> Yes, more expensive than a MicroSD card, but
> much, much more convenient.
Heh heh heh... I can do that for free Frank, with my iPad.
It's trivial to turn an iPad into a portable read/write memory stick.
You just have to know how, which probably one in a million people know, but
I wrote multiple tutorials on how to do that Frank. You just forgot.
Please remember, I'm of at least average intelligence and I'm well
educated, which means I find solutions that one out of million can.
> But I understand *why* you are touting the SD card slot on Android
> phones, because only Android phones have them, while the memory-stick
> approach also works on iDevices, so that ruins your troll! :-)
No. You're wrong on that. Very wrong. You ascribe the wrong motive to me.
That's because your motives aren't as honorable as mine are Frank.
I will always say when the iPhone is better, Frank, if it's better.
For example, in this thread alone I've said the iPhone is more private when
using Google Voice than is Android - did I not? I simply tell the truth.
What you don't remember is I wrote detailed tutorials to make the entire
iPad into a read/write USB stick, Frank - which is a far better as it's
free, and at the same time it doesn't destroy the utility of the iPad.
Never forget that I am not stupid, Frank, and that I'm of at least average
intelligence, and that I find solutions to almost all problems I face.
Probably one out of a million people can do what I can do, Frank.
You don't have to believe it - but I bet you don't know how to turn any
iPad into a read/write USB stick either - so just take that on faith Frank.
Better yet, I'll prove I can do what one out of a million know how to do.
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2x0f9Js/files14.jpg> Simultaneous linux, win10 & iOS
<https://i.postimg.cc/g269S8rT/files13.jpg> How does macOS work with iOS?
<https://i.postimg.cc/pVJf72fN/files12.jpg> iOS hacks very often will fail
<https://i.postimg.cc/cChf8mx1/files11.jpg> iOS requires hacks just to copy
<https://i.postimg.cc/9MGdc2s7/files10.jpg> Android is 2-way fast over USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDx3xkp4/files09.jpg> iOS only DCIM & only 1-way copy
<https://i.postimg.cc/3xcCBngd/files08.jpg> iOS is just a dumb brick on Win
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjK4nHwf/files07.jpg> Ubuntu is two-way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/Jhmy9KH7/files06.jpg> Ubuntu uses iFuse for its magic
<https://i.postimg.cc/qqg61Rh8/files05.jpg> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/QMk7tvZW/files04.jpg> Ubuntu is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/d3SGkdgr/files03.jpg> Android is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/L8b18Zmx/files02.jpg> iOS "Files" does nothing useful
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFkXsJ0X/files01.jpg> iOS/Win is 1-way & DCIM only
In summary, I appreciate your help, where I aim to solve (or work around)
any problem that I run into - but first I have to understand how it works.
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-17 13:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v28g8e$2c8up$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141219 |
On 2024-05-17 13:54, Andrew wrote: > Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:34:44 GMT : > >>> My Android phones are all free from T-Mobile and they all have the aux >>> jack, the FM radio, and the all important portable-storage sd slot. >>> >>> Most iPhone users think the portable storage slot is only for extending the >>> internal memory - but it's also portable storage - which they can't do. >>> (Apple wants them to pay for the iCloud so they can save pictures & video.) >> >> I know you like to tout the SD card 'slot' on Android phones, but IMO >> using them for *portable* storage, while possible, is not very >> convenient. > > Thank you for understanding that I _love_ that more than half of all > Android phones in use today still have the SD slot, the aux jack and the FM > radio (if not the removable battery - which I loved just as much as those). Even if nobody is using them...
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| From | Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-17 17:04 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <v28ka6$2d56g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141220 |
Alan wrote: > On 2024-05-17 13:54, Andrew wrote: >> Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:34:44 GMT : >> >>>> My Android phones are all free from T-Mobile and they all have the aux >>>> jack, the FM radio, and the all important portable-storage sd slot. >>>> >>>> Most iPhone users think the portable storage slot is only for extending >>>> the >>>> internal memory - but it's also portable storage - which they can't do. >>>> (Apple wants them to pay for the iCloud so they can save pictures & >>>> video.) >>> >>> I know you like to tout the SD card 'slot' on Android phones, but IMO >>> using them for *portable* storage, while possible, is not very >>> convenient. >> >> Thank you for understanding that I _love_ that more than half of all >> Android phones in use today still have the SD slot, the aux jack and the FM >> radio (if not the removable battery - which I loved just as much as those). > > Even if nobody is using them... Both phones suffer from the shitty and non-user replaceable batteries. Glued together. And the software that drops support after a few years. Both are shitty chinese disposable devices. Pure crap. Both are the result of pure greed. At least apple has a thriving cult.
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-17 15:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v28n6r$2dlvs$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141223 |
On 2024-05-17 15:04, Hank Rogers wrote: > Alan wrote: >> On 2024-05-17 13:54, Andrew wrote: >>> Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:34:44 GMT : >>> >>>>> My Android phones are all free from T-Mobile and they all have the aux >>>>> jack, the FM radio, and the all important portable-storage sd slot. >>>>> >>>>> Most iPhone users think the portable storage slot is only for >>>>> extending the >>>>> internal memory - but it's also portable storage - which they can't >>>>> do. >>>>> (Apple wants them to pay for the iCloud so they can save pictures & >>>>> video.) >>>> >>>> I know you like to tout the SD card 'slot' on Android phones, but >>>> IMO >>>> using them for *portable* storage, while possible, is not very >>>> convenient. >>> >>> Thank you for understanding that I _love_ that more than half of all >>> Android phones in use today still have the SD slot, the aux jack and >>> the FM >>> radio (if not the removable battery - which I loved just as much as >>> those). >> >> Even if nobody is using them... > > Both phones suffer from the shitty and non-user replaceable batteries. > Glued together. And the software that drops support after a few years. Whereby with iOS "a few years" means "almost always more than 5 years"... ...which is longer than most phones survive. > > Both are shitty chinese disposable devices. Pure crap. > > Both are the result of pure greed. > > At least apple has a thriving cult. <yawn>
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-17 23:37 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <laq80tFrutkU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #141223 |
On 2024-05-17, Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> wrote: > Alan wrote: >> On 2024-05-17 13:54, Andrew wrote: >>> Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:34:44 GMT : >>> >>>>> My Android phones are all free from T-Mobile and they all have the >>>>> aux jack, the FM radio, and the all important portable-storage sd >>>>> slot. >>>>> >>>>> Most iPhone users think the portable storage slot is only for >>>>> extending the internal memory - but it's also portable storage - >>>>> which they can't do. (Apple wants them to pay for the iCloud so >>>>> they can save pictures & video.) >>>> >>>> I know you like to tout the SD card 'slot' on Android phones, >>>> but IMO using them for *portable* storage, while possible, is not >>>> very convenient. >>> >>> Thank you for understanding that I _love_ that more than half of all >>> Android phones in use today still have the SD slot, the aux jack and >>> the FM radio (if not the removable battery - which I loved just as >>> much as those). >> >> Even if nobody is using them... > > Both phones suffer from the shitty and non-user replaceable batteries. I've replaced plenty of iPhone batteries. And for those who aren't skilled enough or don't have the required parts and tools, Apple will rent the tools needed to users along with detailed instructions and replacement batteries. So it's untrue to say they are not user-replaceable. > Glued together. And the software that drops support after a few years. Devices can run indefinitely even after support expires, if well taken care of. > Both are shitty chinese disposable devices. Pure crap. No. > At least apple has a thriving cult. So claim the Android zealots. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Andrew <andrew@spam.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-18 00:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <v28sk0$2ijo$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #141223 |
Hank Rogers wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 17:04:49 -0500 : >> Even if nobody is using them... > > Both phones suffer from the shitty and non-user replaceable batteries. > Glued together. This is true but at least 5% of Android models still have them. While 0% of Apple models ever had user-replaceable batteries. > And the software that drops support after a few years. The full software support for Android is far better than iOS for a variety of reasons which the Apple zealots would never be able to comprehend. For example, apple zealots are completely ignorant that all Android phones (4.4 & above) are updated monthly completely seamlessly over the Internet. <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html> "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered in various OS components like device connectivity, location services, media services, Emergency alerts, and others." Google & Samsung phones have 7 years of multi-update full support. *Samsung Extends Android and Security Updates to 7 Years* <https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/> "Samsung phones now come backed with seven years' worth of security updates and seven generations of OS upgrades." *Google just put Apple and Samsung on notice - 7 years of software updates* <https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/google-pixel-8-software-updates> "That support covers everything, including full Android updates, the regular Pixel feature drops and security updates." Apple only fully supports one release and one release alone. <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/> Which is partially why iPhones have more than 1-1/2 times known exploits! <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog> The other part is by all accounts, Apple has the worst QA in the industry, which was easily proven by Google's Project Zero analysis. > Both are shitty chinese disposable devices. Pure crap. This is mostly true, as they are 'shitty disposable devices', but some are built in India and others in South Korea... not sure about the rest. > Both are the result of pure greed. The profit margins on Apple devices are extremely high (around 50%) so there's less greed (but only due to competition) in Android pricing. For example, my phone was free (I only had to pay the tax) and T-Mobile replaced it twice for free (it's my third one) because I broke it twice. > At least apple has a thriving cult. I always wondered why Apple has that thriving cult, and I'm only slowly realizing the Apple users are herd animals who can't think on their own.
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-17 18:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v28uja$2erec$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141239 |
On 2024-05-17 17:26, Andrew wrote: > Hank Rogers wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 17:04:49 -0500 : > >>> Even if nobody is using them... >> >> Both phones suffer from the shitty and non-user replaceable batteries. >> Glued together. > > This is true but at least 5% of Android models still have them. > While 0% of Apple models ever had user-replaceable batteries. Which is irrelevant. > >> And the software that drops support after a few years. > > The full software support for Android is far better than iOS for a variety > of reasons which the Apple zealots would never be able to comprehend. No... ...it's really not. > > For example, apple zealots are completely ignorant that all Android phones > (4.4 & above) are updated monthly completely seamlessly over the Internet. > > <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html> > "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally > referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered > in various OS components like device connectivity, location services, > media services, Emergency alerts, and others." Is that every single update? Don't you tout the wonder of being able to load software from anywhere? > > Google & Samsung phones have 7 years of multi-update full support. > *Samsung Extends Android and Security Updates to 7 Years* > <https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/> > "Samsung phones now come backed with seven years' worth of > security updates and seven generations of OS upgrades." That's only for their latest phones. Apple has mostly supported it's phones for longer than Samsung OR Google. > > *Google just put Apple and Samsung on notice - 7 years of software updates* > <https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/google-pixel-8-software-updates> > "That support covers everything, including full Android updates, > the regular Pixel feature drops and security updates." > > Apple only fully supports one release and one release alone. > <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/> But supports phones going by 5 or 6 years ON that release. > > Which is partially why iPhones have more than 1-1/2 times known exploits! > <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog> > > The other part is by all accounts, Apple has the worst QA in the > industry, which was easily proven by Google's Project Zero analysis. No, actually.
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-22 09:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v2l6nt$18rov$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141244 |
On 2024-05-22 09:27, Andrew wrote: > -hh wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 11:07:01 -0400 : > >>> Which is irrelevant. >> >> Indeed. All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved along >> to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't. > > You missed the point of having choices that Apple never gives users > (mainly because there are few companies as anti-consumer as Apple is). And yet Apple has incredible consumer loyalty... > >> It would take >> some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in >> production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New >> Old Stock" that's still available for sale. > > Those were phones on sale at the time that the search was run. > > What's relevant is if you're on Android & you want an sd card or an aux > jack or an FM radio, you can extremely easily find a model today with them, > (since about half of Android phones sold today have one or more of them). And yet people keep buying iPhones and replacing them with iPhones when they change phones. > > Unfortunately, it also means that if you want a user-removable battery, > then your choices are severely limited. > > But it also shows Android hardware is always better than iPhone hardware > (because Apple gives you no choice for any of those 4 hardware features). LOL!
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| From | Andrew <andrew@spam.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-22 16:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <v2l6dv$2uma$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #141244 |
-hh wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 11:07:01 -0400 : >> Which is irrelevant. > > Indeed. All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved along > to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't. You missed the point of having choices that Apple never gives users (mainly because there are few companies as anti-consumer as Apple is). > It would take > some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in > production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New > Old Stock" that's still available for sale. Those were phones on sale at the time that the search was run. What's relevant is if you're on Android & you want an sd card or an aux jack or an FM radio, you can extremely easily find a model today with them, (since about half of Android phones sold today have one or more of them). Unfortunately, it also means that if you want a user-removable battery, then your choices are severely limited. But it also shows Android hardware is always better than iPhone hardware (because Apple gives you no choice for any of those 4 hardware features). >>>> And the software that drops support after a few years. >>> >>> The full software support for Android is far better than iOS for a >>> variety >>> of reasons which the Apple zealots would never be able to comprehend. >> >> No... ...it's really not. > > This doesn't actually matter, because fundamentally, its not a profound > statement: by literal definition as per set theory, no subset of a > whole can ever be greater than the whole from which it was a subset. Au contraire... given Apple's hotfix support is the worst in the industry, you're only saying bugfix support isn't important because it's not there. > As such, just what does 'full software support' really mean? It's no longer shocking you didn't read Apple's own definition of full support, given you Apple religious zealots not only know nothing of Apple products - but you "think" you know everything about Android & iOS. > Its only > of value if every Android smartphone sold is capable of using the 'full' > breadth of this software set (which is dang near impossible) and then > also only if this 'full' set is materially different (better) than > software sets from other providers (eg, Apple iOS). Idiot. You're making lame excuses for Apple only patching all the bugs it knows about in only the latest iOS or mac release - which are dumb excuses. Apple's bugfix support for operating systems is the worst in the industry. > Plus the Law of > Diminishing Returns applies too: just because something is "N+1" larger > doesn't mean that the "+1" increment is also significant. To use a > analogy, $10,000,001 is pedantically "more money" than $10,000,000, but > that extra dollar doesn't make this difference be significant. You didn't even read Apple's own explanation that they never patch all the hole in operating systems that they know exist - except the latest OS only. >> Apple has mostly supported it's phones for longer than Samsung OR Google. > > Yes, that's been their track record history. Apple's operating system support has _always_ been the worst in the industry. The only reason you don't know that is you don't know what Apple says about Apple NOT PATCHING all known bugs in any release but the latest. >>> � *Google just put Apple and Samsung on notice - 7 years of software >>> updates* > > These "7 years" announcements were clearly made to try to have their > products be better able to compete against Apple. > > Plus they're merely promises of future performance which remains yet to > be seen as achievable in real world practice. Let's wait to see what > their respective SEC filings say about these initiatives. Why do you think the iPhone historically always has had more than twice the zero-day holes and more than 1-1/2 times the exploits of Android? Do you think the fact the iPhone is exploited more and has more 0 days may be because Apple's hotfix support is the worst in the industry perhaps? See references in the sig since I speak facts about Apple & Android. -- FACT: *Apple only fully supports a single release.* <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/> FACT: *Apple always has far more exploits than does Android.* <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog> FACT: *Apple only recently (in iOS 16) started the RSR patch mechanism.* <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224> FACT: *Google & Craig Federighi both said Apple QA is lacking in coverage.* <https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html> "The root causes I highlight here are not novel and are often overlooked. *We'll see cases of iOS code which seems to have never worked*, *iOS code that likely skipped QA or likely had little testing* *or no code review before the iOS release was shipped to users*." See also: <https://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2016/02/15/what-apple-did-and-didnt-say-about-its-software-quality/> <https://www.quiverquant.com/news/Apple%20Prioritizes%20Software%20Stability%20Over%20New%20Features%20in%20Strategic%20Shift> <https://www.axios.com/2018/01/30/scoop-apple-delays-ios-features-to-focus-on-reliability-performance-1517278421> <https://www.quiverquant.com/news/Apple%20Prioritizes%20Software%20Stability%20Over%20New%20Features%20in%20Strategic%20Shift>
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| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-24 10:30 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <v2q8b1$2c2c4$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141364 |
On 5/22/24 12:27 PM, Andrew wrote: > -hh wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 11:07:01 -0400 : > >>> Which is irrelevant. >> >> Indeed. All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved along >> to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't. > > You missed the point of having choices that Apple never gives users > (mainly because there are few companies as anti-consumer as Apple is). Since the rest of the Industry (well, 95%) has adopted the same design choice, it really isn't as tyrannical of Apple as you're trying to make it out to be. It is more indicative of Apple appropriately identifying a "where the puck is going to be". >> It would take >> some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in >> production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New >> Old Stock" that's still available for sale. > > Those were phones on sale at the time that the search was run. I'm aware of that. Now go back and check to see how many of those were actually --> still in production <-- versus being obsolete stock that was merely still available for sale. > What's relevant is if you're on Android & you want an sd card or an aux > jack or an FM radio, you can extremely easily find a model today with them, > (since about half of Android phones sold today have one or more of them). Incorrect, because your claim also means ~half have none of these features too. And what have all three? Probably just a tiny fraction. Once again, you're just not being successful in identifying if any of these product feature are integral to product success in the, to demonstrate if Apple's disinclination towards them is "anti-consumer". Indeed, if they were as much of a "pro consumer" differentiator as you're trying to imply, then the fraction of Androids which featured all three should be quite large. It isn't. > Unfortunately, it also means that if you want a user-removable battery, > then your choices are severely limited. > > But it also shows Android hardware is always better than iPhone hardware > (because Apple gives you no choice for any of those 4 hardware features). But 95% of Android doesn't offer that choice either, so that feature is simply not an indicator. Especially since you've not been able to show if the 5% residual is actually still in production, as opposed to left over inventory. >>>>> And the software that drops support after a few years. >>>> >>>> The full software support for Android is far better than iOS for a >>>> variety >>>> of reasons which the Apple zealots would never be able to comprehend. >>> >>> No... ...it's really not. >> >> This doesn't actually matter, because fundamentally, its not a profound >> statement: by literal definition as per set theory, no subset of a >> whole can ever be greater than the whole from which it was a subset. > > Au contraire... given Apple's hotfix support is the worst in the industry, > you're only saying bugfix support isn't important because it's not there. Just what is "hotfix" supposed to mean here? And why is it now being introduced as a new Goalpost? >> As such, just what does 'full software support' really mean? > > It's no longer shocking you didn't read Apple's own definition of full > support, given you Apple religious zealots not only know nothing of Apple > products - but you "think" you know everything about Android & iOS. I've not read the fine print because I'm not a fanboy, nor have I ever had any issues or troubles from their current & historical level of product support: I'm predominantly going by what you've tried to brag about, which I see as evidence of Android/Google trying to catch up. >> Its only >> of value if every Android smartphone sold is capable of using the 'full' >> breadth of this software set (which is dang near impossible) and then >> also only if this 'full' set is materially different (better) than >> software sets from other providers (eg, Apple iOS). > > Idiot. You're making lame excuses for Apple only patching all the bugs it > knows about in only the latest iOS or mac release - which are dumb excuses. How can any software developer patch bugs that they don't know about? Or are you trying to criticize the entire industry for their practice of sun-setting support on old obsolete & superseded software that's if its used by anyone at all, its <0.0001% of the installed base? If so, show us the dates of the latest bug & security updates for Android OS versions 1 (2008) through 6 (2015): I'm sure that there's been zero for the past five years, if not longer. > Apple's bugfix support for operating systems is the worst in the industry. Unsubstantiated claim. Golly, how about that. >> Plus the Law of >> Diminishing Returns applies too: just because something is "N+1" larger >> doesn't mean that the "+1" increment is also significant. To use a >> analogy, $10,000,001 is pedantically "more money" than $10,000,000, but >> that extra dollar doesn't make this difference be significant. > > You didn't even read Apple's own explanation that they never patch all the > hole in operating systems that they know exist - except the latest OS only. You're correct that I didn't bother to read that, because all that one has to do to mitigate whatever theoretical risk you're concerned about is just to maintain one's equipment to the latest OS. Since MacOS and iOS updates from Apple are free of charge, there's few reasons not to. >>> Apple has mostly supported it's phones for longer than Samsung OR Google. >> >> Yes, that's been their track record history. > > Apple's operating system support has _always_ been the worst in the > industry. The only reason you don't know that is you don't know what Apple > says about Apple NOT PATCHING all known bugs in any release but the latest. Unsubstantiated claim. Again. Golly, how about that. >>>> � *Google just put Apple and Samsung on notice - 7 years of software >>>> updates* >> >> These "7 years" announcements were clearly made to try to have their >> products be better able to compete against Apple. >> >> Plus they're merely promises of future performance which remains yet to >> be seen as achievable in real world practice. Let's wait to see what >> their respective SEC filings say about these initiatives. > > Why do you think the iPhone historically always has had more than twice the > zero-day holes and more than 1-1/2 times the exploits of Android? > Do you think the fact the iPhone is exploited more and has more 0 days may > be because Apple's hotfix support is the worst in the industry perhaps? "When asked why he robbed banks, Sutton simply replied, 'Because that's where the money is.'" > See references in the sig since I speak facts about Apple & Android. No need to, as you clearly don't sufficiently understand the industry. -hh
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| From | Andrew <andrew@spam.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-24 15:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <v2qd5s$qgc$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> |
| In reply to | #141407 |
-hh wrote on Fri, 24 May 2024 10:30:57 -0400 :
>> You missed the point of having choices that Apple never gives users
>> (mainly because there are few companies as anti-consumer as Apple is).
>
> Since the rest of the Industry (well, 95%) has adopted the same design
> choice, it really isn't as tyrannical of Apple as you're trying to make
> it out to be. It is more indicative of Apple appropriately identifying
> a "where the puck is going to be".
You're so desperate to excuse Apple's well-known anti-consumer stance that
you brazen fabricate out of thin air that more than half is, now, only 5%?
>>> It would take
>>> some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in
>>> production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New
>>> Old Stock" that's still available for sale.
>>
>> Those were phones on sale at the time that the search was run.
>
> I'm aware of that. Now go back and check to see how many of those were
> actually --> still in production <-- versus being obsolete stock that
> was merely still available for sale.
Those are recent figures which you hate because Apple has never supplied
the user with basic hardware functionality that Android always enjoyed.
>> What's relevant is if you're on Android & you want an sd card or an aux
>> jack or an FM radio, you can extremely easily find a model today with them,
>> (since about half of Android phones sold today have one or more of them).
>
> Incorrect, because your claim also means ~half have none of these
> features too. And what have all three? Probably just a tiny fraction.
>
> Once again, you're just not being successful in identifying if any of
> these product feature are integral to product success in the, to
> demonstrate if Apple's disinclination towards them is "anti-consumer".
>
> Indeed, if they were as much of a "pro consumer" differentiator as
> you're trying to imply, then the fraction of Androids which featured all
> three should be quite large. It isn't.
It's no longer shocking how desperate you Apple religious zealots are to
defend that Apple has never supplied you with basic hardware functionality.
>> Unfortunately, it also means that if you want a user-removable battery,
>> then your choices are severely limited.
>>
>> But it also shows Android hardware is always better than iPhone hardware
>> (because Apple gives you no choice for any of those 4 hardware features).
>
> But 95% of Android doesn't offer that choice either, so that feature is
> simply not an indicator. Especially since you've not been able to show
> if the 5% residual is actually still in production, as opposed to left
> over inventory.
It's no longer amazing how desperate you are to defend that cheap iPhone
which has never had even the most basic of standard hardware functionality.
>>>>>> And the software that drops support after a few years.
>>>>>
>>>>> The full software support for Android is far better than iOS for a
>>>>> variety
>>>>> of reasons which the Apple zealots would never be able to comprehend.
>>>>
>>>> No... ...it's really not.
>>>
>>> This doesn't actually matter, because fundamentally, its not a profound
>>> statement: by literal definition as per set theory, no subset of a
>>> whole can ever be greater than the whole from which it was a subset.
>>
>> Au contraire... given Apple's hotfix support is the worst in the industry,
>> you're only saying bugfix support isn't important because it's not there.
>
> Just what is "hotfix" supposed to mean here? And why is it now being
> introduced as a new Goalpost?
You zealots are so desperate to defend Apple's worst support in the
industry that you claim you don't even know what a bug fix is?
>>> As such, just what does 'full software support' really mean?
>>
>> It's no longer shocking you didn't read Apple's own definition of full
>> support, given you Apple religious zealots not only know nothing of Apple
>> products - but you "think" you know everything about Android & iOS.
> I've not read the fine print because I'm not a fanboy, nor have I ever
> had any issues or troubles from their current & historical level of
> product support: I'm predominantly going by what you've tried to brag
> about, which I see as evidence of Android/Google trying to catch up.
You're too desperate. Fixing all the known bugs is not fine print.
Fixing all known bugs is what everyone does for multiple releases.
*Except Apple*
Only Apple only fixes all the bugs it knows about in only one release.
*Apple has the worst support in the industry*
>>> Its only
>>> of value if every Android smartphone sold is capable of using the 'full'
>>> breadth of this software set (which is dang near impossible) and then
>>> also only if this 'full' set is materially different (better) than
>>> software sets from other providers (eg, Apple iOS).
>>
>> Idiot. You're making lame excuses for Apple only patching all the bugs it
>> knows about in only the latest iOS or mac release - which are dumb excuses.
>
> How can any software developer patch bugs that they don't know about?
>
> Or are you trying to criticize the entire industry for their practice of
> sun-setting support on old obsolete & superseded software that's if its
> used by anyone at all, its <0.0001% of the installed base?
>
> If so, show us the dates of the latest bug & security updates for
> Android OS versions 1 (2008) through 6 (2015): I'm sure that there's
> been zero for the past five years, if not longer.
You are defending what is known to be the absolute worst support in the
industry & you don't even understand how iOS or Android update.
>> Apple's bugfix support for operating systems is the worst in the industry.
>
> Unsubstantiated claim. Golly, how about that.
Read the cites. Every operating system except Apple's patches all bugs they
know about in multiple releases. Only Apple doesn't. That's just a fact.
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
>>> Plus the Law of
>>> Diminishing Returns applies too: just because something is "N+1" larger
>>> doesn't mean that the "+1" increment is also significant. To use a
>>> analogy, $10,000,001 is pedantically "more money" than $10,000,000, but
>>> that extra dollar doesn't make this difference be significant.
>>
>> You didn't even read Apple's own explanation that they never patch all the
>> hole in operating systems that they know exist - except the latest OS only.
>
> You're correct that I didn't bother to read that, because all that one
> has to do to mitigate whatever theoretical risk you're concerned about
> is just to maintain one's equipment to the latest OS. Since MacOS and
> iOS updates from Apple are free of charge, there's few reasons not to.
It's no longer shocking you Apple religious zealots deny even what Apple
said about their hotfix support being the worst in the industry bar none.
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>>>> Apple has mostly supported it's phones for longer than Samsung OR Google.
>>>
>>> Yes, that's been their track record history.
>>
>> Apple's operating system support has _always_ been the worst in the
>> industry. The only reason you don't know that is you don't know what Apple
>> says about Apple NOT PATCHING all known bugs in any release but the latest.
>
> Unsubstantiated claim. Again. Golly, how about that.
And yet, I provided the cites which prove only Apple patches all the bugs
it knows about only in a single release while nobody's support is that bad.
Samsung and Google support 7 years of operating system updates
and 7 years of security updates to the operating system, Jolly Roger.
*Samsung Extends Android and Security Updates to 7 Years*
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/>
"Samsung phones now come backed with seven years' worth of
security updates and seven generations of OS upgrades."
*Google fixes all known bugs for 7 years of software updates*
<https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/google-pixel-8-software-updates>
"That support covers everything, including full Android updates,
the regular Pixel feature drops and security updates."
In addition, for billions of Android devices, Google has been updating
_all_ of those over version 4.4 for years! Monthly. Forever.
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
"Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
media services, Emergency alerts, and others."
It's so seamless, most Android users don't even know it.
There's a reason iPhones are the most exploited phones in phone history?
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
It's because Apple's support is well known to be the worst in the industry.
>> See references in the sig since I speak facts about Apple & Android.
>
> No need to, as you clearly don't sufficiently understand the industry.
Heh heh heh... there's a reason I say about you Apple zealots what I do.
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-24 18:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v2rdjn$2i9ls$16@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141408 |
On 2024-05-24 08:53, Andrew wrote: > -hh wrote on Fri, 24 May 2024 10:30:57 -0400 : > >>> You missed the point of having choices that Apple never gives users >>> (mainly because there are few companies as anti-consumer as Apple is). >> Since the rest of the Industry (well, 95%) has adopted the same design >> choice, it really isn't as tyrannical of Apple as you're trying to make >> it out to be. It is more indicative of Apple appropriately identifying >> a "where the puck is going to be". > You're so desperate to excuse Apple's well-known anti-consumer stance that > you brazen fabricate out of thin air that more than half is, now, only 5%? > >>>> It would take >>>> some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in >>>> production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New >>>> Old Stock" that's still available for sale. >>> Those were phones on sale at the time that the search was run. >> I'm aware of that. Now go back and check to see how many of those were >> actually --> still in production <-- versus being obsolete stock that >> was merely still available for sale. > Those are recent figures which you hate because Apple has never supplied > the user with basic hardware functionality that Android always enjoyed. > >>> What's relevant is if you're on Android & you want an sd card or an aux >>> jack or an FM radio, you can extremely easily find a model today with them, >>> (since about half of Android phones sold today have one or more of them). >> Incorrect, because your claim also means ~half have none of these >> features too. And what have all three? Probably just a tiny fraction. >> >> Once again, you're just not being successful in identifying if any of >> these product feature are integral to product success in the, to >> demonstrate if Apple's disinclination towards them is "anti-consumer". >> >> Indeed, if they were as much of a "pro consumer" differentiator as >> you're trying to imply, then the fraction of Androids which featured all >> three should be quite large. It isn't. > It's no longer shocking how... ...you refuse to address the points HH actually made? You're right about that.
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| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-26 14:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <v2vvir$3h10g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141408 |
On 5/24/24 11:53 AM, Andrew wrote:
> -hh wrote on Fri, 24 May 2024 10:30:57 -0400 :
>
>>> You missed the point of having choices that Apple never gives users
>>> (mainly because there are few companies as anti-consumer as Apple is).
>>
>> Since the rest of the Industry (well, 95%) has adopted the same design
>> choice, it really isn't as tyrannical of Apple as you're trying to make
>> it out to be. It is more indicative of Apple appropriately identifying
>> a "where the puck is going to be".
>
> You're so desperate to excuse Apple's well-known anti-consumer stance that
> you brazen fabricate out of thin air that more than half is, now, only 5%?
No, it was based on what you said: half of Android contain at least one
of these features that you worship .. that's ~50% .. and you conceded
that virtually none contain all three: I was gracious and allocated 5%
to that.
Now you're welcome to go provide the substantiating citations which
quantify the value more accurately, so get to it. Frankly, I'd be quite
surprised if it exceeded even but 1% of Android sales, esp. in the West.
>>>> It would take
>>>> some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in
>>>> production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New
>>>> Old Stock" that's still available for sale.
>>>
>>> Those were phones on sale at the time that the search was run.
>>
>> I'm aware of that. Now go back and check to see how many of those were
>> actually --> still in production <-- versus being obsolete stock that
>> was merely still available for sale.
>
> Those are recent figures which you hate because Apple has never supplied
> the user with basic hardware functionality that Android always enjoyed.
It doesn't matter if the figures are 'recent' because what you've
provided does not identify and differentiate between products currently
in production vs "New Old Stock" that was discontinued 1-20 years ago.
As such, you're not making a successful line of argument for describing
what Android's *current* product feature set decisions are.
>>> What's relevant is if you're on Android & you want an sd card or an aux
>>> jack or an FM radio, you can extremely easily find a model today with them,
>>> (since about half of Android phones sold today have one or more of them).
>>
>> Incorrect, because your claim also means ~half have none of these
>> features too. And what have all three? Probably just a tiny fraction.
>>
>> Once again, you're just not being successful in identifying if any of
>> these product feature are integral to product success in the, to
>> demonstrate if Apple's disinclination towards them is "anti-consumer".
>>
>> Indeed, if they were as much of a "pro consumer" differentiator as
>> you're trying to imply, then the fraction of Androids which featured all
>> three should be quite large. It isn't.
>
> It's no longer shocking how desperate you Apple religious zealots are to
> defend that Apple has never supplied you with basic hardware functionality.
Nah. I've had smartphones with removable batteries & microSDs, so I
actually know what I'm allegedly "missing out on" by those features
being dropped in favor of others.
The facts of the matter are that if these features that you're trying to
taut were actually compelling to users, then more than 5% of Androids
would be equipped with them today. They're not. Indeed, by your own
claim, barely half of them bother to have at least one of this set.
>>> Unfortunately, it also means that if you want a user-removable battery,
>>> then your choices are severely limited.
>>>
>>> But it also shows Android hardware is always better than iPhone hardware
>>> (because Apple gives you no choice for any of those 4 hardware features).
>>
>> But 95% of Android doesn't offer that choice either, so that feature is
>> simply not an indicator. Especially since you've not been able to show
>> if the 5% residual is actually still in production, as opposed to left
>> over inventory.
>
> It's no longer amazing how desperate you are to defend that cheap iPhone
> which has never had even the most basic of standard hardware functionality.
If your claim was true that these features are fundamental to (as you
call it): "the most basic of standard hardware functionality", then why
do essentially no Android smartphones feature them either?
>>>>>>> And the software that drops support after a few years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The full software support for Android is far better than iOS for a
>>>>>> variety
>>>>>> of reasons which the Apple zealots would never be able to comprehend.
>>>>>
>>>>> No... ...it's really not.
>>>>
>>>> This doesn't actually matter, because fundamentally, its not a profound
>>>> statement: by literal definition as per set theory, no subset of a
>>>> whole can ever be greater than the whole from which it was a subset.
>>>
>>> Au contraire... given Apple's hotfix support is the worst in the industry,
>>> you're only saying bugfix support isn't important because it's not there.
>>
>> Just what is "hotfix" supposed to mean here? And why is it now being
>> introduced as a new Goalpost?
>
> You zealots are so desperate to defend Apple's worst support in the
> industry that you claim you don't even know what a bug fix is?
You said "hotfix", not "bugfix".
If you made a typographical error here, clearly say so.
>>>> As such, just what does 'full software support' really mean?
>>>
>>> It's no longer shocking you didn't read Apple's own definition of full
>>> support, given you Apple religious zealots not only know nothing of Apple
>>> products - but you "think" you know everything about Android & iOS.
>> I've not read the fine print because I'm not a fanboy, nor have I ever
>> had any issues or troubles from their current & historical level of
>> product support: I'm predominantly going by what you've tried to brag
>> about, which I see as evidence of Android/Google trying to catch up.
>
> You're too desperate. Fixing all the known bugs is not fine print.
No, that's not what was being said.
> Fixing all known bugs is what everyone does for multiple releases.
> *Except Apple*
Except that the proof that your statement is false was contained within
the challenge I gave you below ... which you've dodged addressing.
> Only Apple only fixes all the bugs it knows about in only one release.
> *Apple has the worst support in the industry*
YA Unsubstantiated claim. Cite, please.
>>>> Its only
>>>> of value if every Android smartphone sold is capable of using the 'full'
>>>> breadth of this software set (which is dang near impossible) and then
>>>> also only if this 'full' set is materially different (better) than
>>>> software sets from other providers (eg, Apple iOS).
>>>
>>> Idiot. You're making lame excuses for Apple only patching all the bugs it
>>> knows about in only the latest iOS or mac release - which are dumb excuses.
>>
>> How can any software developer patch bugs that they don't know about?
Silence!
>> Or are you trying to criticize the entire industry for their practice of
>> sun-setting support on old obsolete & superseded software that's if its
>> used by anyone at all, its <0.0001% of the installed base?
Silence!
>> If so, show us the dates of the latest bug & security updates for
>> Android OS versions 1 (2008) through 6 (2015): I'm sure that there's
>> been zero for the past five years, if not longer.
>
> You are defending what is known to be the absolute worst support in the
> industry & you don't even understand how iOS or Android update.
On the contrary: because *NO* version of Android OS 1 - 6 (inclusive)
have received any bugfixes or security updates for the past five (5)
years, it shows that Android support isn't "forever" as you've tried to
imply in your criticisms on how Apple provides their own support.
>>> Apple's bugfix support for operating systems is the worst in the industry.
>>
>> Unsubstantiated claim. Golly, how about that.
>
> Read the cites. Every operating system except Apple's patches all bugs they
> know about in multiple releases. Only Apple doesn't. That's just a fact.
Because (and as I've already noted), the simplest user solution is to
make sure to keep the OS up-to-date, where --> as you pointed out <--
all [known] bugs are patched because its the latest release.
>
> <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
Yup, confirmation of being up-to-date simply by having the latest OS,
just as I've already pointed out to you.
>>>> Plus the Law of
>>>> Diminishing Returns applies too: just because something is "N+1" larger
>>>> doesn't mean that the "+1" increment is also significant. To use a
>>>> analogy, $10,000,001 is pedantically "more money" than $10,000,000, but
>>>> that extra dollar doesn't make this difference be significant.
>>>
>>> You didn't even read Apple's own explanation that they never patch all the
>>> hole in operating systems that they know exist - except the latest OS only.
>>
>> You're correct that I didn't bother to read that, because all that one
>> has to do to mitigate whatever theoretical risk you're concerned about
>> is just to maintain one's equipment to the latest OS. Since MacOS and
>> iOS updates from Apple are free of charge, there's few reasons not to.
>
> It's no longer shocking you Apple religious zealots deny even what Apple
> said about their hotfix support being the worst in the industry bar none.
> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
No, that cite isn't Apple admitting that their support is the worst.
Try again.
Likewise, you're dodging addressing the point I made, which was to
simply maintain the OS as current to be confident in being the most
up-to-date on bug & security patches to one's device.
>>>>> Apple has mostly supported it's phones for longer than Samsung OR Google.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's been their track record history.
>>>
>>> Apple's operating system support has _always_ been the worst in the
>>> industry. The only reason you don't know that is you don't know what Apple
>>> says about Apple NOT PATCHING all known bugs in any release but the latest.
>>
>> Unsubstantiated claim. Again. Golly, how about that.
>
> And yet, I provided the cites which prove only Apple patches all the bugs
> it knows about only in a single release while nobody's support is that bad.
No, that's not what was being said. What was being said was that Apple
wasn't guaranteeing that known patches would flow down to all old legacy
OS versions. That statement doesn't prevent them from providing all bug
patches to earlier OS versions - its just not an ironclad obligation.
From a business sense, there's diminishing returns on the expense,
since both current installed base and the relevant risk are in decline.
This is precisely why I asked you about Android's current level of
support for old OS's and Android 1 - 6 OS specifically: with zero
updates over the past five (5) years, they're obviously abandoned for
_all_ patches.
> Samsung and Google support 7 years of operating system updates
> and 7 years of security updates to the operating system, Jolly Roger.
> *Samsung Extends Android and Security Updates to 7 Years*
Android OS 8 ("Oreo") is still less than 7 years old, yet there's been
zero security patch updates to it since October 2021 ... over 2.5 years.
Is this because its already been abandoned too?
Or is Samsung/Google's "7 years" merely "from today going forward"
promise?
Evidence suggests the latter, not the former:
> <https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/>
> "Samsung phones now come backed with seven years' worth of
> security updates and seven generations of OS upgrades. >
> *Google fixes all known bugs for 7 years of software updates*
> <https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/google-pixel-8-software-updates>
> "That support covers everything, including full Android updates,
> the regular Pixel feature drops and security updates."
>
> In addition, for billions of Android devices, Google has been updating
> _all_ of those over version 4.4 for years! Monthly. Forever.
But 4.4 years is far short of 7 years, plus where's their official
statement that these patches for **all** known bugs for older Android OS
versions? Cite, please.
Because the track record ain't that great:
Android OS 9 hasn't any security patches since Jan 2022 (2+ years)
Android OS 10? None since Feb 2023 = 15 months & counting.
Android OS 11 is still less than 4 years since its initial release, and
its latest security update was Feb 2024, so that's not "monthly" as per
your above claim, since 12-14's latest security update were all in May:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history>
> <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
> "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
> referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
> in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
> media services, Emergency alerts, and others."
>
> It's so seamless, most Android users don't even know it.
But iOS updates aren't? Pull my other leg. The main way that I'm aware
that there's been an iOS update is that iOS requires its security code
to be entered after a reboot. Perhaps a question for Android here is
what comparable security element do they choose to incorporate, if any?
> There's a reason iPhones are the most exploited phones in phone history?
> <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
> It's because Apple's support is well known to be the worst in the industry.
YA unsubstantiated claim on your part ..
... plus a mere list of known exploits isn't proof of "most" exploited.
... plus even if it was true that iOS is most exploited, one then
needs to seek understanding as to why it would be so deliberately
targeted. FYI, I've already alluded to one major reason for such a
motivation.
>>> See references in the sig since I speak facts about Apple & Android.
>>
>> No need to, as you clearly don't sufficiently understand the industry.
>
> Heh heh heh... there's a reason I say about you Apple zealots what I do.
Because you're merely a troll, and a pretty lame one at that.
-hh
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-22 11:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <v2l1ml$17k7r$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141244 |
On 5/17/24 9:00 PM, Alan wrote: > On 2024-05-17 17:26, Andrew wrote: >> Hank Rogers wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 17:04:49 -0500 : >> >>>> Even if nobody is using them... >>> >>> Both phones suffer from the shitty and non-user replaceable batteries. >>> Glued together. >> >> This is true but at least 5% of Android models still have them. >> While 0% of Apple models ever had user-replaceable batteries. > > Which is irrelevant. Indeed. All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved along to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't. It would take some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New Old Stock" that's still available for sale. >>> And the software that drops support after a few years. >> >> The full software support for Android is far better than iOS for a >> variety >> of reasons which the Apple zealots would never be able to comprehend. > > No... ...it's really not. This doesn't actually matter, because fundamentally, its not a profound statement: by literal definition as per set theory, no subset of a whole can ever be greater than the whole from which it was a subset. As such, just what does 'full software support' really mean? Its only of value if every Android smartphone sold is capable of using the 'full' breadth of this software set (which is dang near impossible) and then also only if this 'full' set is materially different (better) than software sets from other providers (eg, Apple iOS). Plus the Law of Diminishing Returns applies too: just because something is "N+1" larger doesn't mean that the "+1" increment is also significant. To use a analogy, $10,000,001 is pedantically "more money" than $10,000,000, but that extra dollar doesn't make this difference be significant. >> For example, apple zealots are completely ignorant that all Android >> phones >> (4.4 & above) are updated monthly completely seamlessly over the >> Internet. >> >> <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html> >> "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally >> referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered >> in various OS components like device connectivity, location services, >> media services, Emergency alerts, and others." > > Is that every single update? > > Don't you tout the wonder of being able to load software from anywhere? > >> >> Google & Samsung phones have 7 years of multi-update full support. >> *Samsung Extends Android and Security Updates to 7 Years* >> >> <https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/> >> "Samsung phones now come backed with seven years' worth of >> security updates and seven generations of OS upgrades." > > That's only for their latest phones. > > Apple has mostly supported it's phones for longer than Samsung OR Google. Yes, that's been their track record history. Plus: >> *Google just put Apple and Samsung on notice - 7 years of software >> updates* These "7 years" announcements were clearly made to try to have their products be better able to compete against Apple. Plus they're merely promises of future performance which remains yet to be seen as achievable in real world practice. Let's wait to see what their respective SEC filings say about these initiatives. -hh
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| From | sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-24 09:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v2qg4k$2dicr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141376 |
On 5/22/2024 8:07 AM, -hh wrote: <snip> > Indeed. All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved along > to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't. It would take > some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in > production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New > Old Stock" that's still available for sale. Thankfully, one iPhone philosophy, only on U.S. models, has not been adopted by any Android phone manufacturers, and that's the decontenting of the physical SIM slot. This loss is a a royal PITA if you're traveling outside the U.S. and want to buy a local SIM card complete with a phone number. While foreign data-only eSIMs are readily available for travelers, travel eSIMs that include an actual phone number, are few and far between. My sister's boyfriend had his iPhone 12 stolen in Paris and he needed to buy a new iPhone. He had a hard time finding an iPhone 13 since there was such a rush on the 13 when the 14 came out. He travels a lot and needs to use a physical foreign SIM. -- “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards
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| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-24 18:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v2rdn3$2i9ls$17@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141409 |
On 2024-05-24 09:44, sms wrote: > On 5/22/2024 8:07 AM, -hh wrote: > > <snip> > >> Indeed. All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved >> along to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't. It >> would take some more research to determine if these holdouts are >> actually still in production (and for what market segment) or if >> they're now down to "New Old Stock" that's still available for sale. > > Thankfully, one iPhone philosophy, only on U.S. models, has not been > adopted by any Android phone manufacturers, and that's the decontenting > of the physical SIM slot. This loss is a a royal PITA if you're > traveling outside the U.S. and want to buy a local SIM card complete > with a phone number. While foreign data-only eSIMs are readily available > for travelers, travel eSIMs that include an actual phone number, are few > and far between. > > My sister's boyfriend had his iPhone 12 stolen in Paris and he needed to > buy a new iPhone. He had a hard time finding an iPhone 13 since there > was such a rush on the 13 when the 14 came out. He travels a lot and > needs to use a physical foreign SIM. > You not understanding the physical SIMs can be made in to eSIMs is not the world's problem.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-26 13:05 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <v2vq3v$3g59h$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141416 |
On 5/24/24 9:08 PM, Alan wrote: > On 2024-05-24 09:44, sms wrote: >> On 5/22/2024 8:07 AM, -hh wrote: >> >> <snip> >> >>> Indeed. All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved >>> along to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't. It >>> would take some more research to determine if these holdouts are >>> actually still in production (and for what market segment) or if >>> they're now down to "New Old Stock" that's still available for sale. >> >> Thankfully, one iPhone philosophy, only on U.S. models, has not been >> adopted by any Android phone manufacturers, and that's the >> decontenting of the physical SIM slot. This loss is a a royal PITA if >> you're traveling outside the U.S. and want to buy a local SIM card >> complete with a phone number. While foreign data-only eSIMs are >> readily available for travelers, travel eSIMs that include an actual >> phone number, are few and far between. >> >> My sister's boyfriend had his iPhone 12 stolen in Paris and he needed >> to buy a new iPhone. He had a hard time finding an iPhone 13 since >> there was such a rush on the 13 when the 14 came out. He travels a lot >> and needs to use a physical foreign SIM. >> > > You not understanding the physical SIMs can be made in to eSIMs is not > the world's problem. I wasn't aware of this .. if one buys a physical SIM in a random foreign smokeshop (or whatever), what's the process for entering into an eSIM-only smartphone like? -hh
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| From | sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-26 13:52 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v307et$3j5r6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141464 |
On 5/26/2024 10:05 AM, -hh wrote: > On 5/24/24 9:08 PM, Alan wrote: <snip> >> You not understanding the physical SIMs can be made in to eSIMs is not >> the world's problem. > > I wasn't aware of this .. if one buys a physical SIM in a random foreign > smokeshop (or whatever), what's the process for entering into an > eSIM-only smartphone like? See: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnEvkwgEWhM>. It's been done to add a physical SIM to an eSIM only iPhone, but it's not trivial. Basically, he has it backwards. eSIMs can be loaded onto a phone that only has a physical SIM slot, using eSIM.me <https://esim.me/>, but not the other way around. What is needed is the ability to put a physical SIM into an iPhone that only has eSIMs (only the iPhone 14 & 15 models sold in the U.S.). For the rest of the world, except China, you still get one physical SIM slot and one eSIM slot. In China you get two physical SIM slots. For data-only, an eSIM is fine. If you're traveling, and want a foreign phone number as well as data, then you're usually stuck with a physical SIM. -- “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-05-26 13:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <v307i7$3iomp$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141464 |
On 2024-05-26 10:05, -hh wrote: > On 5/24/24 9:08 PM, Alan wrote: >> On 2024-05-24 09:44, sms wrote: >>> On 5/22/2024 8:07 AM, -hh wrote: >>> >>> <snip> >>> >>>> Indeed. All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved >>>> along to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't. It >>>> would take some more research to determine if these holdouts are >>>> actually still in production (and for what market segment) or if >>>> they're now down to "New Old Stock" that's still available for sale. >>> >>> Thankfully, one iPhone philosophy, only on U.S. models, has not been >>> adopted by any Android phone manufacturers, and that's the >>> decontenting of the physical SIM slot. This loss is a a royal PITA if >>> you're traveling outside the U.S. and want to buy a local SIM card >>> complete with a phone number. While foreign data-only eSIMs are >>> readily available for travelers, travel eSIMs that include an actual >>> phone number, are few and far between. >>> >>> My sister's boyfriend had his iPhone 12 stolen in Paris and he needed >>> to buy a new iPhone. He had a hard time finding an iPhone 13 since >>> there was such a rush on the 13 when the 14 came out. He travels a >>> lot and needs to use a physical foreign SIM. >>> >> >> You not understanding the physical SIMs can be made in to eSIMs is not >> the world's problem. > > I wasn't aware of this .. if one buys a physical SIM in a random foreign > smokeshop (or whatever), what's the process for entering into an > eSIM-only smartphone like? I did some of this for a client before she left Canada for the winter. She was going to carry around both phones so she could have both her Canada number and her US number available to her, when I explained she could have both on one phone. In the process, I came across this: 'Convert a physical SIM to an eSIM on the same iPhone You can convert a physical SIM to an eSIM on the same iPhone, if your carrier supports it. Follow these steps:' <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/118669>
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