Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.misc > #13411 > unrolled thread

Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome

Back to article view | Back to comp.misc

Contents

  Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome RS Wood  <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2017-04-05 19:46 +0000
    Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:08 +0000
      Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2017-04-06 12:59 +0000
        Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2017-04-06 17:45 +0000
          Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2017-04-06 15:02 -0400
            Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2017-04-07 06:00 +0000
      Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-04-06 21:17 +0100
        Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2017-04-08 17:12 +0200
          Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2017-04-08 20:44 +0300
            Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2017-04-09 10:25 +0200
              Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2017-04-09 09:36 +0100
              Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2017-04-09 13:13 +0300
            Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2017-04-09 13:08 +0100
      Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2017-04-07 19:29 +0100
    Re: Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2017-04-08 15:46 +0100

#13411 — Shuttleworth ditches Unity for Gnome

From the «4 days after 1 April» department:
Title: Ubuntu to switch back to GNOME, drop Unity
Author: Thom Holwerda
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 20:28:03 +0300
Link: http://osnews.com/story/29753/Ubuntu_to_switch_back_to_GNOME_drop_Unity

Mark Shuttleworth, dropping a bombshell on a boring Wednesday: We are wrapping
up an excellent quarter and an excellent year for the company, with performance
in many teams and products that we can be proud of. As we head into the new
fiscal year, it's appropriate to reassess each of our initiatives. I'm writing
to let you know that we will end our investment in Unity8, the phone and
convergence shell. We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. [...] I took the view that, if convergence was the future and
we could deliver it as free software, that would be widely appreciated both in
the free software community and in the technology industry, where there is
substantial frustration with the existing, closed, alternatives available to
manufacturers. I was wrong on both counts. In the community, our efforts were
seen fragmentation not innovation. And industry has not rallied to the
possibility, instead taking a 'better the devil you know' approach to those
form factors, or investing in home-grown platforms. What the Unity8 team has
delivered so far is beautiful, usable and solid, but I respect that markets,
and community, ultimately decide which products grow and which disappear. That
just happened.


--
Posting to comp.misc, sci.misc, and misc.news.internet.discuss

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#13412

On 2017-04-05, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> From the «4 days after 1 April» department:
> Title: Ubuntu to switch back to GNOME, drop Unity
> Author: Thom Holwerda
> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 20:28:03 +0300
> Link: http://osnews.com/story/29753/Ubuntu_to_switch_back_to_GNOME_drop_Unity
>
> Mark Shuttleworth, dropping a bombshell on a boring Wednesday: We are wrapping
> up an excellent quarter and an excellent year for the company, with performance
> in many teams and products that we can be proud of. As we head into the new
> fiscal year, it's appropriate to reassess each of our initiatives. I'm writing
> to let you know that we will end our investment in Unity8, the phone and
> convergence shell. We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for
> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. 

Too late, mate. I went to Mint and I ain't coming back.


-- 
Today is Setting Orange, the 22nd day of Discord in the YOLD 3183
                  I don't have an attitude problem.
    If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13417

On 2017-04-05, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> Too late, mate. I went to Mint and I ain't coming back.

Unity and Gnome 3 both suck. I still use Ubuntu but went with Xfce and Mate
for desktop environments.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
  Don't talk to cops!             -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
  Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13420

>>>>> Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> writes:
>>>>> On 2017-04-05, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

 >> Too late, mate. I went to Mint and I ain't coming back.

 > Unity and Gnome 3 both suck.  I still use Ubuntu but went with Xfce
 > and Mate for desktop environments.

	FWIW, I've used Openbox + XTerm + Screen for my desktop for
	about a decade.  This year I took a look at Openbox dependencies.

	... And promptly switched to JWM.

PS.  Discovered that wonderful sxiv(1) image viewer along the way, too.

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  np. Into The Black -- Chromag  3013 B6A0 230E 334A

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13422

On Thu, 06 Apr 2017 17:45:25 +0000
Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
This year I took a look at Openbox dependencies.
> 
> 	... And promptly switched to JWM.
> 
??? So openbox is dependent on something unpleasant?  The below is what I
found when I googled it:

//--clip
Compiling Openbox should be a relatively painless experience. You will
need the following packages:

    C compiler (such as GCC)
    Libc library and headers (development package)
    Xlib library and headers (development package)
    Xext and Xrandr library and headers (development package) -
optional but recommended 

    Glib-2 library and headers (development package)
    LibXML-2 library and headers (development package)
    Pango library and headers (development package)
    Imlib2 (development package) - optional but recommended
    Startup-notification library and headers (development package) -
optional but recommended XCursor library and headers (development
package) - optional but recommended Pkg-config 

These should all be available through your distribution.
Dependencies in Ubuntu and Debian

In Ubuntu and Debian, install the following packages:

    build-essential
    pkg-config
    libpango1.0-dev
    libglib2.0-dev
    libxml2-dev
    libxcursor-dev
    libimlib2-dev
    libstartup-notification0-dev
    xlibs-dev
    libxext-dev
    x11proto-randr-dev 
//--clip

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13426

>>>>> RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes:
>>>>> On Thu, 06 Apr 2017 17:45:25 +0000 Ivan Shmakov wrote:

 >> This year I took a look at Openbox dependencies.

 >> ... And promptly switched to JWM.

 > ???  So openbox is dependent on something unpleasant?  The below is
 > what I found when I googled it:

 > //--clip Compiling Openbox should be a relatively painless
 > experience.

	I see I may have failed to mention that I ran the version of
	Openbox that comes with Debian; the authoritative source of its
	dependencies is hence http://packages.debian.org/jessie/openbox.

[...]

 > Pango library and headers (development package)

	And to answer the question: this one, specifically.

	Although I now see that Debian Stretch JWM package also depends
	on it (via Cairo, used to support SVG) [1].  Which actually
	warrants for a bug report or two.

Description-en: very small lightweight pure X11 window manager with tray
 and menus
...
 JWM is a window manager for the X11 Window System.  JWM is written in
 C and uses only Xlib and (optionally) the shape extension and libXpm.
...

	(Does not look up-to-date anymore.  Also the "optional" part.)

[1] http://packages.debian.org/stretch/jwm

[...]

-- 
FSF associate member #7257  58F8 0F47 53F5 2EB2 F6A5  8916 3013 B6A0 230E 334A

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13423

On 2017-04-05 21:08:43 +0000, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> said:

> Too late, mate. I went to Mint and I ain't coming back.

I like Mint, but can't get the keyboard mappings working under a VM on 
my Mac. Shame because it would be my desktop of choice these days 
(server of choice remains Debian - there are rumours of other operating 
systems out there, but I pay them no heed...).


Cheers,
Ian

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13435

On 2017-04-06, Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:
> On 2017-04-05 21:08:43 +0000, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> said:
>
>> Too late, mate. I went to Mint and I ain't coming back.
>
> I like Mint, but can't get the keyboard mappings working under a VM on 
> my Mac. Shame because it would be my desktop of choice these days 
> (server of choice remains Debian - there are rumours of other operating 
> systems out there, but I pay them no heed...).
>

Karabiner did a good job at remapping keys when I needed it for anything
Linux running in Fusion VMs.

Key Codes.app, a freebie in the Mac App Store does a good job of telling
you what keycodes are generated by which keys.

(I since swapped to a US keyboard for programming; Apple's Swiss keyboard
layouts leave much to be desired in that area).


-- 
The First of April: The only day of the year that people critically
evaluate news stories before believing them.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13436

Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>:

> (I since swapped to a US keyboard for programming; Apple's Swiss
> keyboard layouts leave much to be desired in that area).

Why on earth should we depend on some prepackaged keyboard layouts? I
need to type Finnish, Esperanto, Spanish, Hebrew, English, C and some
math. I shouldn't depend on anybody having the perfect layout for my
needs but I have defined one for myself.


Marko

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13437

On 2017-04-08, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>:
>
>> (I since swapped to a US keyboard for programming; Apple's Swiss
>> keyboard layouts leave much to be desired in that area).
>
> Why on earth should we depend on some prepackaged keyboard layouts?

That is a very good question.  Until 20 years ago I was mainly using
dumb terminals which had keyboards with a fixed layout.  I did get a 
chance to specify the layout for some AZERTY terminals for a specific
customer in the mid-80s but that was implemented in PROM.

I spent a lot of time at customer sites, where I encountered a variety
of OEM keyboards and few of those were exactly the same, so full touch
typing ability wasn't a particularly sensible goal.  Instead I got used
to using visual hints to remind me of which particular layout I am
dealing with at the moment.

> I need to type Finnish, Esperanto, Spanish, Hebrew, English, C and
> some math. I shouldn't depend on anybody having the perfect layout for
> my needs but I have defined one for myself.

Leaving out Hebrew[1] and math (not sure what layout you have in mind
for C), you could do the rest quite comfortably using the Compose key on
the VT200 (and successor) keyboards.

For accented characters, you would hit Compose-/ and then a letter to
apply an acute accent, Compose-" for an Umlaut... (might have been the
other way around as in Compose-letter-", I forget). All quite logical.

How do you implement your solution?  How do you cope when stuck with
whatever layout a customer has, particularly if the customer system
is locked down to the extent you cannot remap the keyboard?

This is far from the first time I have been frustrated by keyboard
layouts and am very interested in hearing your solution.

[1] Hebrew VT200 keyboards did exist, but never having used one I can't
comment on their ease of use.

-- 
The First of April: The only day of the year that people critically
evaluate news stories before believing them.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13438

Paul Sture wrote:

> you could do the rest quite comfortably using the Compose key on
> the VT200 (and successor) keyboards.
>
> For accented characters, you would hit Compose-/ and then a letter to
> apply an acute accent, Compose-" for an Umlaut... (might have been the
> other way around as in Compose-letter-", I forget). All quite logical.

Yes, I liked the VTx00 compose key, e.g. when arriving at an Italian 
site for a week of C programming to discover all terminals had local 
keyboards, I soon got used to typing "compose ( -" and "compose ) -"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13439

Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>:

> How do you implement your solution?

xmodmap

Much easier to deal with than xkb.

> How do you cope when stuck with whatever layout a customer has,
> particularly if the customer system is locked down to the extent you
> cannot remap the keyboard?

Eww, I'd rather share a toothbrush than a keyboard.

Anyway, my X11 session is mine. I can do whatever I want with my
keyboard events.


Marko

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13440

On 2017-04-08 17:44:07 +0000, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> said:

> Why on earth should we depend on some prepackaged keyboard layouts?

By co-incidence I was playing with a Lenovo Yoga Book in a shop yesterday:
<http://www3.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/yoga/yoga-book-series/Lenovo-Yoga-Book/p/ZZITZTOYB1F>

Software 

keyboard depending on haptics, with the keyboard layout being 
programmable, and pen input too (including being able to place a piece 
of paper on the 'keyboard' and write directly on the paper with 
physical ink, still having it captured by the machine as well).

 It was much better than I expected and I could type reasonably quickly 
on it. Looks like a nice machine, though no idea about Linux on it. 
Comes in Windows or Android versions.


Cheers,
Ian

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13431

On 05/04/2017 22:08, Huge wrote:
> On 2017-04-05, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>>  From the «4 days after 1 April» department:
>> Title: Ubuntu to switch back to GNOME, drop Unity
>> Author: Thom Holwerda
>> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 20:28:03 +0300
>> Link: http://osnews.com/story/29753/Ubuntu_to_switch_back_to_GNOME_drop_Unity
>>
>> Mark Shuttleworth, dropping a bombshell on a boring Wednesday: We are wrapping
>> up an excellent quarter and an excellent year for the company, with performance
>> in many teams and products that we can be proud of. As we head into the new
>> fiscal year, it's appropriate to reassess each of our initiatives. I'm writing
>> to let you know that we will end our investment in Unity8, the phone and
>> convergence shell. We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for
>> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
>
> Too late, mate. I went to Mint and I ain't coming back.
>
>
+1

I have an Ubuntu machine (32bit) at work for running 32bit builds of 
legacy software we still support. Unity drives me mad as it's just 
awkward to use.

Mint + XFCE does a fine job on a pair of older laptops with anaemic 
graphics hardware. Not going Ubuntu unless Mint drops a clanger in the 
future.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#13434

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> Mark Shuttleworth, dropping a bombshell on a boring Wednesday: We are wrapping
> up an excellent quarter and an excellent year for the company, with performance
> in many teams and products that we can be proud of. As we head into the new
> fiscal year, it's appropriate to reassess each of our initiatives.

Substantial layoffs reported:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/06/canonical_cuts_jobs_with_unity_bullet/

Theo

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.misc

csiph-web