Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.misc > #9266 > unrolled thread

Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros

Back to article view | Back to comp.misc

Contents

  Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-10-31 20:40 +0300
    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-31 16:09 -0400
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-10-31 20:53 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> - 2015-10-31 14:12 -0700
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-10-31 22:27 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-01 04:37 +0000
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2015-11-01 22:44 +0000
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-01 23:54 +0000
              Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-02 13:17 +0000
                Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 15:35 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-02 08:36 -0800
                    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 17:37 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-11-02 17:28 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-11-04 01:28 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:08 -0500
                Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 07:17 +1100
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-03 12:54 +0000
                    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 08:06 +1100
                Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 20:48 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-03 12:54 +0000
                    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-03 13:01 +0000
                      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-03 19:27 +0000
                        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-04 11:04 +0000
                          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-04 23:48 +0000
                        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:12 -0500
                          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros     wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) - 2015-11-11 12:35 -0800
                            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2015-11-11 23:11 -0400
                            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-12 15:31 +0000
                            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-11-12 18:41 +0100
                      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-04 13:52 +0000
                        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-04 15:00 +0000
                        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-05 08:56 +1100
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-11-01 11:58 +0000
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:15 -0500
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-12 00:40 +0000
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-02 14:29 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-02 09:06 -0600
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "D. Aaron Sawyer" <aaron@110.net> - 2015-11-02 10:10 -0500
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-02 09:27 -0600
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-02 15:35 +0000
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-02 19:21 +0000
    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-31 15:26 -0500
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2015-10-31 22:32 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-31 20:47 -0400
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-11-02 11:05 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-11-02 14:33 +0300
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-11-02 15:12 -0600
    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2017-05-04 10:40 +0000
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2017-05-04 10:53 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2017-05-05 13:44 +0200
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2017-05-05 01:15 +0100
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2017-05-05 04:29 -0400
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-05-05 09:49 +0100
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2017-05-05 13:10 +0200

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

#9266 — Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros

For me the most interesting thing is the comment that the younger tech 
staff don't *want* to learn the languages this project now requires.  
Pathetic.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30/has_voyager_1_escaped_the_sun_yet_yes_but_also_no_say_boffins/ 

//--clip
Boffins have debated whether Voyager 1 has left the Solar System for a 
few years now, after NASAdeclared it could no longer detect direct 
evidence of the solar wind. The absence of the stream of particles 
hurtling out from the sun was taken as evidence Voyager 1 had left the 
solar system and entered the interstellar medium. But after revisiting 
Voyager data, the new paper suggests some odd magnetic field readings 
mean the probe is passing through “a more distorted magnetic field just 
outside the heliopause, which is the boundary between the solar wind 
and the interstellar medium.”
/--clip

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/31/brush_up_on_your_fortran/

//--clip
In an interview with Popular Mechanics, the manager of NASA's Voyager 
program Suzanne Dodd said the retirement of the last original crew 
member has left the space agency with a shortage of people capable of 
communicating with the 40-year-old craft.
Launched in 1977, the two Voyager crafts rely on mid-70s hardware 
powered by purpose-built General Electric interrupt processors. After 
38 years in space, the two probes are currently on the outer fringes of 
the Sun's influence, heading into interstellar space.
Though most of the instruments onboard the two probes have been 
deactivated, both are still able to maintain contact with Earth and 
will continue to do so into the 2020's, until their onboard 
radioisotope thermoelectric generators no longer function.
In the meantime, NASA needs engineers capable of interacting with the 
1970s-era technology, a skillset that includes knowledge of both 
Fortran and assembly as well as the ability to command a machine with 
just around 68KB of total memory.
"Although, some people can program in an assembly language and 
understand the intricacy of the spacecraft, most younger people can't 
or really don't want to," Dodd was quoted as saying.
With high-level languages now the standard for developers, knowing how 
to fluently code in assembly has become a specialized skill, as has 
fluency in dated languages such as Fortran. While obscure, the skillset 
is potentially lucrative. Along with NASA's aging fleet of spacecraft, 
many businesses still rely on ancient languages such as Fortran or 
COBOL for specialized tasks and critical infrastructure. ®
//--clip

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#9267

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> For me the most interesting thing is the comment that the younger tech 
> staff don't *want* to learn the languages this project now requires.  
> Pathetic.
> 
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30/has_voyager_1_escaped_the_sun_yet_yes_but_also_no_say_boffins/
> 
> 
> //--clip
> Boffins have debated whether Voyager 1 has left the Solar System for a 
> few years now, after NASAdeclared it could no longer detect direct 
> evidence of the solar wind. The absence of the stream of particles 
> hurtling out from the sun was taken as evidence Voyager 1 had left the 
> solar system and entered the interstellar medium. But after revisiting 
> Voyager data, the new paper suggests some odd magnetic field readings 
> mean the probe is passing through “a more distorted magnetic field just 
> outside the heliopause, which is the boundary between the solar wind 
> and the interstellar medium.”
> /--clip
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/31/brush_up_on_your_fortran/
> 
> //--clip
> In an interview with Popular Mechanics, the manager of NASA's Voyager 
> program Suzanne Dodd said the retirement of the last original crew 
> member has left the space agency with a shortage of people capable of 
> communicating with the 40-year-old craft.

I can't believe that no one "wants to."  What I would believe is that NASA
is not willing to take someone with enthusiasm but no experience with this
specific hardware and train them.  Like most employers they want someone
who can step into a position with no learning period.

> Launched in 1977, the two Voyager crafts rely on mid-70s hardware 
> powered by purpose-built General Electric interrupt processors. After 
> 38 years in space, the two probes are currently on the outer fringes of 
> the Sun's influence, heading into interstellar space.
> Though most of the instruments onboard the two probes have been 
> deactivated, both are still able to maintain contact with Earth and 
> will continue to do so into the 2020's, until their onboard 
> radioisotope thermoelectric generators no longer function.
> In the meantime, NASA needs engineers capable of interacting with the 
> 1970s-era technology, a skillset that includes knowledge of both 
> Fortran and assembly as well as the ability to command a machine with 
> just around 68KB of total memory.

> "Although, some people can program in an assembly language and 
> understand the intricacy of the spacecraft, most younger people can't 
> or really don't want to," Dodd was quoted as saying.
> With high-level languages now the standard for developers, knowing how 
> to fluently code in assembly has become a specialized skill, as has 
> fluency in dated languages such as Fortran. While obscure, the skillset 
> is potentially lucrative. Along with NASA's aging fleet of spacecraft, 
> many businesses still rely on ancient languages such as Fortran or 
> COBOL for specialized tasks and critical infrastructure. ®
> //--clip
> 
> 



-- 
Pete

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9270

On 2015-10-31, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I can't believe that no one "wants to."  What I would believe is that NASA
> is not willing to take someone with enthusiasm but no experience with this
> specific hardware and train them.  Like most employers they want someone
> who can step into a position with no learning period.

What I find amusing is that, as an experienced Fortran programmer on
things from IBM 1130 and newer, I've never heard of these positions. 
I've just tried finding them on the NASA@Careers site, with no luck. 
Perhaps no one is applying because they CAN'T FIND THE DAMN JOBS.  But
that'd be too obvious.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9271

In article <slrnn3aai7.jmi.howard@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs
<howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> On 2015-10-31, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I can't believe that no one "wants to."  What I would believe is that NASA
> > is not willing to take someone with enthusiasm but no experience with this
> > specific hardware and train them.  Like most employers they want someone
> > who can step into a position with no learning period.
> 
> What I find amusing is that, as an experienced Fortran programmer on
> things from IBM 1130 and newer, I've never heard of these positions. 
> I've just tried finding them on the NASA@Careers site, with no luck. 
> Perhaps no one is applying because they CAN'T FIND THE DAMN JOBS.  But
> that'd be too obvious.

I'll sing in that chorus -- one of my first programming jobs (some
decades ago) was converting a specialized FORTRAN scientific library
into optimized assembly code (on a PDP-10), resulting in many happy
users of that library.

I also did FORTRAN on the IBM 1130, Univac 1108 (two zeroes!), many 360
systems, SDS Sigma 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 560, big CDC and Cray boxes.

I'm not dead yet, and I'd love a job doing that kind of thing!

--

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9273

In comp.misc Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> > For me the most interesting thing is the comment that the younger tech 
> > staff don't *want* to learn the languages this project now requires.  
> > Pathetic.
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30/has_voyager_1_escaped_the_sun_yet_yes_but_also_no_say_boffins/
> > 
> > 
> > //--clip
> > Boffins have debated whether Voyager 1 has left the Solar System
> > for a few years now, after NASAdeclared it could no longer detect
> > direct evidence of the solar wind. The absence of the stream of
> > particles hurtling out from the sun was taken as evidence Voyager 1
> > had left the solar system and entered the interstellar medium. But
> > after revisiting Voyager data, the new paper suggests some odd
> > magnetic field readings mean the probe is passing through ?a more
> > distorted magnetic field just outside the heliopause, which is the
> > boundary between the solar wind and the interstellar medium.?
> > /--clip
> > 
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/31/brush_up_on_your_fortran/
> > 
> > //--clip
> > In an interview with Popular Mechanics, the manager of NASA's
> > Voyager program Suzanne Dodd said the retirement of the last
> > original crew member has left the space agency with a shortage of
> > people capable of communicating with the 40-year-old craft.

> I can't believe that no one "wants to."  What I would believe is that
> NASA is not willing to take someone with enthusiasm but no experience
> with this specific hardware and train them.  Like most employers they
> want someone who can step into a position with no learning period.

This is most likely the exact reason.  The new standard of "the new
hire must come fully trained for _our_ particular stuff".  How
companies that expect this manage to hire anyone at all is amazing.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9280

On 2015-10-31, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> In comp.misc Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
>> > For me the most interesting thing is the comment that the younger tech 
>> > staff don't *want* to learn the languages this project now requires.  
>> > Pathetic.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30/has_voyager_1_escaped_the_sun_yet_yes_but_also_no_say_boffins/
>> > 
>> > 
>> > //--clip
>> > Boffins have debated whether Voyager 1 has left the Solar System
>> > for a few years now, after NASAdeclared it could no longer detect
>> > direct evidence of the solar wind. The absence of the stream of
>> > particles hurtling out from the sun was taken as evidence Voyager 1
>> > had left the solar system and entered the interstellar medium. But
>> > after revisiting Voyager data, the new paper suggests some odd
>> > magnetic field readings mean the probe is passing through ?a more
>> > distorted magnetic field just outside the heliopause, which is the
>> > boundary between the solar wind and the interstellar medium.?
>> > /--clip
>> > 
>> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/31/brush_up_on_your_fortran/
>> > 
>> > //--clip
>> > In an interview with Popular Mechanics, the manager of NASA's
>> > Voyager program Suzanne Dodd said the retirement of the last
>> > original crew member has left the space agency with a shortage of
>> > people capable of communicating with the 40-year-old craft.
>
>> I can't believe that no one "wants to."  What I would believe is that
>> NASA is not willing to take someone with enthusiasm but no experience
>> with this specific hardware and train them.  Like most employers they
>> want someone who can step into a position with no learning period.
>
> This is most likely the exact reason.  The new standard of "the new
> hire must come fully trained for _our_ particular stuff".  How
> companies that expect this manage to hire anyone at all is amazing.

I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9306

On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?

A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really have
no wish to go back to it at this point.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

  NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9307

"Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message 
news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>
> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really 
> have
> no wish to go back to it at this point.

I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9321

gareth wrote:
> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>
>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>> have
>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>
> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.

That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
lanuguage the software runs on.

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9328

"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
> gareth wrote:
>>
>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
> lanuguage the software runs on.


Which machine languages are not Universal Turing Machines?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9330

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:35:43 -0000, "gareth"
<no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

>"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
>news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>> lanuguage the software runs on.

>Which machine languages are not Universal Turing Machines?

     That is irrelevant.  Languages have trade-offs and make some
things easy and some things difficult.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9334

"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@telus.net> wrote in message 
news:j74f3bdtmb7nlmlfkuf62kfq4g9v7glq1n@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 15:35:43 -0000, "gareth"
> <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>>> gareth wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>
>>Which machine languages are not Universal Turing Machines?
>
>     That is irrelevant.  Languages have trade-offs and make some
> things easy and some things difficult.

It is very relevant, for that something might be difficult, or perhaps more 
involved,
does not denigrate the designed program.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9332

"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> writes:

> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>
>
> Which machine languages are not Universal Turing Machines?

Washing machine language.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9357

>Which machine languages are not Universal Turing Machines?

All of them.  Eventually you always run out of memory.

R's,
John

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9467

In article <n17voc$s14$1@dont-email.me>,
 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
> > gareth wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
> >> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
> > That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
> > lanuguage the software runs on.
> 
> 
> Which machine languages are not Universal Turing Machines?

All.  All machines are finite and there are time considerations in
all applications. An algorerhythm that takes thousands of years
is a non starter.

-- 
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9337

"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
> gareth wrote:
>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>
>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>>> have
>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>
>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>
> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
> lanuguage the software runs on.

We aren't talking about machine language there. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9343

Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>
>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>>>> have
>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>
>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>
>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>
> We aren't talking about machine language there.
>
What do you think MACRO-11 generated?  IBM 1620 code?

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9352

"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM000523A2611A8CB7@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>>> gareth wrote:
>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>>
>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my 
>>>>> sleep.
>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but 
>>>>> really
>>>>> have
>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>>
>>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>>
>> We aren't talking about machine language there.
>>
> What do you think MACRO-11 generated?  IBM 1620 code?

Irrelevant to the DESIGN being discussed. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9338

"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
> gareth wrote:
>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>
>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>>> have
>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>
>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>
> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
> lanuguage the software runs on.

Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
failure of system design.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#9344

gareth wrote:
>
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>
>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>>>> have
>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>
>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>
>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>
> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
> failure of system design.

Not all software projects include buying the hardware.  Most projects
already had the computer system.

/BAH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.misc

csiph-web