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Groups > comp.misc > #26457 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-02-16 16:55 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-02-26 21:21 -0300 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 290 — 23 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.misc
Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> - 2025-02-16 16:55 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-16 21:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 23:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 11:40 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 09:26 -0800
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 22:42 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-17 22:23 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:20 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-19 07:32 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-02-18 23:47 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-19 09:42 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-06 07:10 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:44 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-20 08:23 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:55 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 17:59 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:01 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 22:51 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:01 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:29 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 22:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 05:19 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:28 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 10:55 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:34 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 23:06 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:10 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 10:08 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 23:12 +0100
OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:31 -0300
Re: OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:52 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-27 21:40 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-01 11:48 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 06:40 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-05 13:39 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-05 22:12 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 17:54 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:41 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 23:19 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:16 +0100
education Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-06 07:55 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 22:00 -0300
Re: education Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-08 03:47 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 18:27 -0300
Re: education Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-09 02:08 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 02:58 -0300
Re: education Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-10 18:38 +0000
Re: education cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 19:13 +0000
Re: education Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:30 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 11:17 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-25 19:12 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 02:08 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2025-02-26 09:06 -0600
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-02-26 18:09 -0400
the command line is language (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:46 -0300
Re: the command line is language (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-02-27 03:31 -0400
Re: the command line is language Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:10 -0300
Re: the command line is language D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:41 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:47 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:34 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:38 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 22:34 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 18:50 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:11 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:18 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 17:04 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 18:53 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-28 21:41 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 22:03 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:29 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:16 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 12:36 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 17:07 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 19:05 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 15:06 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-01 11:47 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:31 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:52 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:51 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-01 17:15 -0400
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-02 12:34 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-02-26 12:29 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:34 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 22:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000
more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:38 -0300
Re: more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 19:47 -0500
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:55 -0300
Re: more on broken schools kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 19:00 -0500
OT: a personal note to Stefan Ram (Was: Re: more on broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 09:31 -0300
Re: more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:03 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:30 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:43 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:33 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:30 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 03:00 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-10 10:50 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:46 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 23:05 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 11:31 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-14 23:46 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-16 22:43 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-17 23:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 22:50 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 17:06 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:28 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:12 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 14:08 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:32 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 22:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:34 +0100
fdm, paredit and systemd (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 13:18 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:53 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:23 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:31 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 21:10 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 00:09 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:41 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:32 +0100
UNIX systems (Was: Re: fdm, paredit and systemd) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 03:10 -0300
Re: UNIX systems (Was: Re: fdm, paredit and systemd) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-10 10:54 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 09:08 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 23:09 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-13 18:17 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-16 00:03 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-16 22:41 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 10:50 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 16:26 -0300
Re: UNIX systems Matto Fransen <mattof@sdf.org> - 2025-03-21 19:53 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-24 00:11 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-21 23:37 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-24 00:34 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-25 21:49 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-26 23:24 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-29 22:31 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:40 -0300
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-22 10:11 -0300
Re: UNIX systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-25 17:40 -0400
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-25 23:04 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Charles Dagny <1800@DEV.NULL> - 2025-03-28 21:41 -0300
Re: UNIX systems onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2025-03-10 15:06 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-11 11:58 -0300
Re: UNIX systems yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-11 15:49 +0042
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 15:25 +0000
Re: UNIX systems onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2025-03-11 16:24 +0000
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 17:30 +0000
Re: UNIX systems candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-12 22:30 +0000
Re: UNIX systems yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-12 23:23 +0042
Re: UNIX systems candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-13 20:40 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-13 18:04 -0300
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-13 21:26 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:23 -0300
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-13 01:24 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-12 01:38 -0300
Re: UNIX systems snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-12 14:03 +0000
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-12 22:19 +0100
Re: UNIX systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-11 19:09 -0400
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-04 02:44 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-03-04 17:50 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-19 09:40 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-20 08:29 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:56 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:45 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:01 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:02 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:44 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:01 +0100
broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:46 -0300
Re: broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:18 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 22:34 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:38 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 15:45 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 14:05 +0100
Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 13:15 +0000
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:10 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:49 -0300
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 07:41 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 19:52 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 21:41 -0300
Re: broken schools yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-08 02:59 +0042
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 00:14 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 22:26 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 22:52 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:39 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 22:59 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:10 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-15 23:58 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-17 00:02 -0300
Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-18 03:00 +0000
Re: broken schools Eva Lu <evalu@tor.soy> - 2025-03-18 21:20 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 11:17 +0100
OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-19 13:51 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-19 23:20 +0100
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 11:52 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-23 00:31 +0100
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:50 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-01 16:43 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-04 11:20 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-06 23:17 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-10 15:19 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-12 21:05 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-13 13:10 -0300
lifestyles Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:20 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:40 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:57 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-17 18:30 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 22:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 00:08 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-18 00:30 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:52 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-20 01:09 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:27 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-20 21:51 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:07 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:35 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:31 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:06 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:01 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 13:48 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:56 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:22 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 14:05 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:03 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:14 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:47 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-20 22:12 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:15 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:04 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:21 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 22:46 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 10:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2025-02-25 14:20 +0300
small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 15:20 -0300
Re: small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:57 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:20 -0300
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:49 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-02-26 13:50 +0042
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:59 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:13 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:41 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:33 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:12 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:03 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:51 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-20 21:49 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:22 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-22 17:09 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-23 00:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:49 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:05 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:24 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:05 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:56 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:51 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:10 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 14:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:28 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 21:58 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:26 +0100
OT: personal stories (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 11:58 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:21 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:04 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:21 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:49 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-08 00:43 +0042
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:46 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:45 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:37 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:30 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2025-02-25 13:17 -0600
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:21 -0300
Page 9 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 7 8 [9] 10 11 … 15 Next page →
| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-14 12:23 -0300 |
| Subject | Re: UNIX systems |
| Message-ID | <87frjfskjg.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26899 |
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes: > In article <8734fgvdzr.fsf@example.com>, > Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: >>yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes: >> >>> candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote: >>> >>>> Is it so bad it wraps around to being good, >>> >>> Yip. The overflow flips the sign bit. >> >>Lol! Let me also take the opportunity to thank everyone for this >>thread. I don't feel like watching Plan 9 From Outer Space, but if they >>had a plan to revive dead corpses on Earth, I believe they mean that >>Plan 9 could be seen as a way to revive UNIX? But UNIX isn't dead! :P > > "Not only is Unix dead, it's starting to smell really bad." > (from Rob Pike (author of, "The Unix Porgramming Environment" > ...and much of the Plan 9 operating system. :-D) > > I've never found the original reference for that quote, for what > it's worth, but Rob has never denied it, either. But I'd bet he means it research-wise. I meant it in how popular UNIX systems are, even though I still think Windows is the most popular on people's notebooks. (And Paul Graham claimed in 2007 that Microsoft is dead---but he meant it creatively, not in market share.) Microsoft is Dead, Paul Graham, 2007 https://paulgraham.com/microsoft.html
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| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-13 01:24 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: UNIX systems |
| Message-ID | <vqtc4e$t9f$1@reader1.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #26892 |
In article <slrnvt42jn.3c0ba.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid>, candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote: >Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> wrote at 17:30 this Tuesday (GMT): >> In article <1r91h98.25ytyrndpbdbN%onion@anon.invalid>, >> Mr Ön!on <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote: >>>Addendum: 'Plan 9 From Outer Space' is widely thought to be the worst >>>movie ever made. I do hope that this does not reflect anybody's adverse >>>opinion of Plan 9 OS . . . >> >> Heh; I've got to admit: I've seen it, and I didn't think it was >> _that_ bad. Sure, it wasn't what I'd call a _good_ movie, but I >> am pretty sure that I've seen worse. > >Is it so bad it wraps around to being good, or is it just flat bad? I just remmeber it being kind of, well, inane. I don't know if I thought it fit into the "so bad it's good" category at the time, but thinking of it now, that may not be a bad way to describe it. "When you have the Solarmanite, you have nothing!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InO2o5KHPiY - Dan C.
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| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-12 01:38 -0300 |
| Subject | Re: UNIX systems |
| Message-ID | <87a59qhni1.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #26878 |
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
> Anyway, Plan 9, the operating system, was named in a similar
> vein after the movie. There are a few other historical movie
> references associated with it, as well: the original window
> system was named "8 1/2" (though using the Unicode code point
> for the fraction 1/2), in reference to the Fellini film. In
> between the 2nd and 3rd Editions, the working name for the
> system at the Labs was "Brazil", in homage to the Terry Gilliam
> dystopian cult classic. While the name was changed back to Plan
> 9 for the open source 3rd Edition release, a small reference to
> this is left in the name of the current window system, "rio",
> presumably a reference to Rio de Janeiro.
And now we have Peter Thiel highjacking the Tolkien world with
mil- and spook-tech Palantir (as well as Valar, Mithril, Lembas,
Rivendell and Arda.)
He's seems to have overlooked that in the story, it was a palantir
that Sauron used to totally corrupt Saruman and another to utterly
demoralize Denethor, Steward of Gondor. It's not clear to me whether
Thiel thinks of himself as Sauron or as a more resilient Saruman.
The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which
one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920,
the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of
the franchise to women -- two constituencies that are
notoriously tough for libertarians -- have rendered the notion
of "capitalist democracy" into an oxymoron.
-- Peter Thiel, in CATO Unbound
I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.
-- Peter Thiel
Okay, Sauron it is.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-12 14:03 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: UNIX systems |
| Message-ID | <1r935kz.iqrn5xb0e5zkN%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #26889 |
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > And now we have Peter Thiel highjacking the Tolkien world with > mil- and spook-tech Palantir (as well as Valar, Mithril, Lembas, > Rivendell and Arda.) > > He's seems to have overlooked that in the story, it was a palantir > that Sauron used to totally corrupt Saruman and another to utterly > demoralize Denethor, Steward of Gondor. It's not clear to me whether > Thiel thinks of himself as Sauron or as a more resilient Saruman. > > The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which > one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, > the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of > the franchise to women -- two constituencies that are > notoriously tough for libertarians -- have rendered the notion > of "capitalist democracy" into an oxymoron. > -- Peter Thiel, in CATO Unbound > > I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. > -- Peter Thiel > > Okay, Sauron it is. > Exactly so. Thiel's use of the name 'Palantir' for his all-seeing eye has always struck me as being in excruciatingly bad taste. -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-12 22:19 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: UNIX systems |
| Message-ID | <d657df81-e814-2028-187d-fac684c8db70@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26890 |
On Wed, 12 Mar 2025, Sn!pe wrote: > Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > >> And now we have Peter Thiel highjacking the Tolkien world with >> mil- and spook-tech Palantir (as well as Valar, Mithril, Lembas, >> Rivendell and Arda.) >> >> He's seems to have overlooked that in the story, it was a palantir >> that Sauron used to totally corrupt Saruman and another to utterly >> demoralize Denethor, Steward of Gondor. It's not clear to me whether >> Thiel thinks of himself as Sauron or as a more resilient Saruman. >> >> The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which >> one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, >> the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of >> the franchise to women -- two constituencies that are >> notoriously tough for libertarians -- have rendered the notion >> of "capitalist democracy" into an oxymoron. >> -- Peter Thiel, in CATO Unbound >> >> I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. >> -- Peter Thiel >> >> Okay, Sauron it is. >> > > Exactly so. Thiel's use of the name 'Palantir' for his all-seeing eye > has always struck me as being in excruciatingly bad taste. I always thought it was great humor! =)
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| From | kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-11 19:09 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: UNIX systems |
| Message-ID | <vqqfs0$6r1$1@panix2.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #26876 |
In article <87o6y7bomx.fsf@example.com>,
Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote:
>onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) writes:
>
>> Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I believe Plan 9 is doing pretty well ...
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/-zNSQmS2gls>
>
>Thanks! Have you watched? Can you explain why they choose the name?
"Plan nine? Isn't that the plan which involves the resurrection of
the dead?"
-- The Leader
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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| From | Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-04 02:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <eli$2503032144@qaz.wtf> |
| In reply to | #26498 |
In comp.misc, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote: > Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote: >> Doesn't stop people from posting about you on FB. (Or worse, posting >> photos of you on there.) > What I don't tell, they can't post, and the same with what they > don't photograph. Although I guess that does leave a bit of an > information vacuum there which some nutcase could exploit to make > up missing personal info/photos on me if they so desired. $WORK is the worst offender in my experience for photographing and posting. >> Lately I've been seeing people advocating for a switch to >> Codeberg. > > I don't know about Codeberg, but there have been lots of > alternatives all along. Tons of projects switched from SourceForge > to GitHub. Many projects have their own websites too, so why not > self-host? GitHub do offer a lot of extra features for free, but > that's dealing with the devil IMHO. Codeberg is a German non-profit with a lot a github features. Self hosting is always an option, but not one I necessarily like for a lot of projects. I've found it not entirely obvious how to download source (as opposed to just view one version) from some self-hosted projects and having a issues tracker with an easy sign-up is useful, if only to see how issue response works. For some things I'm entirely okay with zero response to bugs, but for other things I'd like to see more. If you are still curious about Codeberg: https://docs.codeberg.org/getting-started/faq/ Elijah ------ won't begrudge anyone who chooses some other path
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| From | scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-04 17:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <T3HxP.130035$eNx6.126006@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #26807 |
In article <eli$2503032144@qaz.wtf>, Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote: >In comp.misc, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote: >> I don't know about Codeberg, but there have been lots of >> alternatives all along. Tons of projects switched from SourceForge >> to GitHub. Many projects have their own websites too, so why not >> self-host? GitHub do offer a lot of extra features for free, but >> that's dealing with the devil IMHO. > >Codeberg is a German non-profit with a lot a github features. Self >hosting is always an option, but not one I necessarily like for a lot of >projects. I've found it not entirely obvious how to download source >(as opposed to just view one version) from some self-hosted projects >and having a issues tracker with an easy sign-up is useful, if only >to see how issue response works. For some things I'm entirely okay >with zero response to bugs, but for other things I'd like to see more. GitLab isn't too terribly difficult to get running, especially if you have any familiarity with Docker. I run a couple of instances: one at home, one at work. It does 99% of what gitlab.com does...for my purposes, it does everything that I need it to do. The only thing for which I might ding it is that it's pretty heavyweight. It'll take about 3 minutes to get going on my servers. As long as it's running from an SSD (or maybe a RAID array with lots of disks), it's quick enough for me once it's spun up. -- _/_ / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail) (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting! \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-19 09:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <eddc5d1e-ddfb-2efb-140e-c7503594b64d@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26488 |
On Tue, 19 Feb 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> wrote: >> On Mon, 17 Feb 2025, Dave Yeo wrote: >>> It's got pretty hard to avoid some of these businesses. Google, Facebook, >>> Microsoft are examples of companies that are very hard to avoid. >> >> ? Facebook is super easy to avoid. Just don't use it. They make nothing of >> value. > > Indeed, so long as you block all FB's scripts and images on > otherwise unrelated websites. Although I don't tend to make close > friends so I don't need to worry about controlling their FB usage. I use privacy badger to block all FB scripts on sites. >> If you have a job at a global mega-corp I agree, M$ and Google are >> difficult to avoid. =( >> >> In private you can do just fine to avoid them as well. > > No, Google can track you via their Captchas, which I guess even > many NoScript users allow by default because the three page reloads > to let them through when a website requires it is a real pain in > the neck. Oh, I simply don't use web sites where I get captchas. Then of course, we must not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I'd rather block 99%, than not being able to block at all. > Quite mysteriously, all sorts of otherwise respectable open-source > software developers are happy to use GitHub even though it's owned > by M$. So even having ditched their software long ago, M$ are now > very hard to avoid online if, ironically, you want to use, and > especially work on, open-source software. I find that truely > unfathomable, but others barely seem to see my problem with it. This is a great mystery to me! I have no clue how so many open source users can be so clueless! =( They also loooooove slck and discord. That's revolting! IRC works percectly fine, and if you need blinken lights, you can just add some of the numerous web IRC programs out there, or at least use matrix or xmpp. Then there is codeberg, sourcehut, gitlab even, but ohhhh no, they loooove M$. Add to that visual code or what ever it is, which is M$ poison to infiltrate linux laptops. I think the reason must be that many open source users are young and naive and do not remembre how M$ tried to close down linux decades ago. When I teach, I make it a point to bring up these things. Sadly the students then go on to work, and get stuck in github and various proprietary tools. But such is life! We must continue to fight the good fight. =)
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| From | not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 08:29 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <67b65b4d@news.ausics.net> |
| In reply to | #26492 |
D <nospam@example.net> wrote: > On Tue, 19 Feb 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >> No, Google can track you via their Captchas, which I guess even >> many NoScript users allow by default because the three page reloads >> to let them through when a website requires it is a real pain in >> the neck. > > Oh, I simply don't use web sites where I get captchas. Yikes! No online shopping then? I'm always getting them, from the shopping sites, PayPal, or Credit Card payment processors. Alibaba/Aliexpress at least self-host theirs - but half the time they decide I'm a robot and won't let me through at all! -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 15:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <8a9f43d5-a802-e517-85d4-4e45259634d4@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26499 |
On Wed, 20 Feb 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> wrote: >> On Tue, 19 Feb 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>> No, Google can track you via their Captchas, which I guess even >>> many NoScript users allow by default because the three page reloads >>> to let them through when a website requires it is a real pain in >>> the neck. >> >> Oh, I simply don't use web sites where I get captchas. > > Yikes! No online shopping then? I'm always getting them, from the > shopping sites, PayPal, or Credit Card payment processors. > Alibaba/Aliexpress at least self-host theirs - but half the time > they decide I'm a robot and won't let me through at all! Hmm... this is very strange. I do shop online, and almost never get it. Ok, I can think of one exception in amazon.com. I manage to avoid them 99% of the time, but for some used books I cannot find locally, I have to bite the bullet and go through amazon.com.
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-19 21:45 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87frk9mok6.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26492 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: [...] >> Quite mysteriously, all sorts of otherwise respectable open-source >> software developers are happy to use GitHub even though it's owned >> by M$. So even having ditched their software long ago, M$ are now >> very hard to avoid online if, ironically, you want to use, and >> especially work on, open-source software. I find that truely >> unfathomable, but others barely seem to see my problem with it. > > This is a great mystery to me! I have no clue how so many open source > users can be so clueless! =( They also loooooove slck and > discord. That's revolting! IRC works percectly fine, and if you need > blinken lights, you can just add some of the numerous web IRC programs > out there, or at least use matrix or xmpp. Lol---well said. (I call Discord a Christmas Tree. And Slack is no different.) Quite right. And USENET, which is way more appropriate for technical discussion than IRC. > I think the reason must be that many open source users are young and > naive and do not remembre how M$ tried to close down linux decades > ago. That's very likely part of the reason. > When I teach, I make it a point to bring up these things. Sadly the > students then go on to work, and get stuck in github and various > proprietary tools. But such is life! We must continue to fight the > good fight. =) Teaching can only go so far.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 16:01 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <872b55ac-c289-80d2-733a-eef130471862@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26501 |
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > > [...] > >>> Quite mysteriously, all sorts of otherwise respectable open-source >>> software developers are happy to use GitHub even though it's owned >>> by M$. So even having ditched their software long ago, M$ are now >>> very hard to avoid online if, ironically, you want to use, and >>> especially work on, open-source software. I find that truely >>> unfathomable, but others barely seem to see my problem with it. >> >> This is a great mystery to me! I have no clue how so many open source >> users can be so clueless! =( They also loooooove slck and >> discord. That's revolting! IRC works percectly fine, and if you need >> blinken lights, you can just add some of the numerous web IRC programs >> out there, or at least use matrix or xmpp. > > Lol---well said. (I call Discord a Christmas Tree. And Slack is no > different.) Quite right. And USENET, which is way more appropriate for > technical discussion than IRC. It is strange that usenet has disappeared from the common mind. I find it excellent! Especially since google disconnected it got even better! There is a challenge though. In todays reincarnation, I find the nr of posts more than manageable. But if I think of a scenario where the nr of posts would increase tenfold, there would be no chance of catching up, except using the narrowest of the narrow sorting based on author and subject line. Today, I can casually browse and glance at most posts, but with 10x the nr of posts, that would not be feasible. I think there is a limit where the usenet model breaks down for most users who are not into cli clients. >> I think the reason must be that many open source users are young and >> naive and do not remembre how M$ tried to close down linux decades >> ago. > > That's very likely part of the reason. > >> When I teach, I make it a point to bring up these things. Sadly the >> students then go on to work, and get stuck in github and various >> proprietary tools. But such is life! We must continue to fight the >> good fight. =) > > Teaching can only go so far. In every class of about 35, there's always 4-9 or so that "get it" and become completely obsessed with the terminal, self-hosting, they buy numerous raspberry pis, they stay awake until 5 in the morning tinkering. Those guys go on the become rock stars! The rest go to the office at 09 and leave at 17, and that's about it.
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 18:22 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87y0y0fh0d.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26521 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Wed, 19 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >> >> [...] >> >>>> Quite mysteriously, all sorts of otherwise respectable open-source >>>> software developers are happy to use GitHub even though it's owned >>>> by M$. So even having ditched their software long ago, M$ are now >>>> very hard to avoid online if, ironically, you want to use, and >>>> especially work on, open-source software. I find that truely >>>> unfathomable, but others barely seem to see my problem with it. >>> >>> This is a great mystery to me! I have no clue how so many open source >>> users can be so clueless! =( They also loooooove slck and >>> discord. That's revolting! IRC works percectly fine, and if you need >>> blinken lights, you can just add some of the numerous web IRC programs >>> out there, or at least use matrix or xmpp. >> >> Lol---well said. (I call Discord a Christmas Tree. And Slack is no >> different.) Quite right. And USENET, which is way more appropriate for >> technical discussion than IRC. > > It is strange that usenet has disappeared from the common mind. I find it > excellent! Especially since google disconnected it got even better! That's right! Thanks, Google Inc., for leaving us alone. :) > There is a challenge though. In todays reincarnation, I find the nr of posts > more than manageable. But if I think of a scenario where the nr of posts would > increase tenfold, there would be no chance of catching up, except using the > narrowest of the narrow sorting based on author and subject line. > > Today, I can casually browse and glance at most posts, but with 10x the nr of > posts, that would not be feasible. I already find it unwieldy. But I don't think we have to follow every thread. You can follow that subthread you got yourself involved. Using Gnus, there are two things that I do. Articles that I'd like to follow-up are ticket---so appear in red for me. Articles that were replies to my own posted articles get the highest score and so they appear in bold. https://0x0.st/8Tsq.png I ticked your article just to show you something red. It wasn't red before. Yes, I also only show three letters for each author because I usually don't care to know who I'm talking to, but since identity does help to understand what the person is saying, three letters is enough. > I think there is a limit where the usenet model breaks down for most users who > are not into cli clients. Yeah. It's not going to work for regular people. However, there's something that I think it should work for regular people---low volume NNTP servers. But it turns out that even mailing lists don't work for regular people because e-mail doesn't work for regular people. Even Discord or Slack doesn't quite work for regular people. Perhaps nothing works for regular people. They do not find ways to tame information on their computer screens. Regular people don't want to use desktops anymore; they want to use their phones. NNTP, the USENET, e-mail, these are systems that only the people thristy for knowledge really use---that 17% of your class of 35. >>> I think the reason must be that many open source users are young and >>> naive and do not remembre how M$ tried to close down linux decades >>> ago. >> >> That's very likely part of the reason. >> >>> When I teach, I make it a point to bring up these things. Sadly the >>> students then go on to work, and get stuck in github and various >>> proprietary tools. But such is life! We must continue to fight the >>> good fight. =) >> >> Teaching can only go so far. > > In every class of about 35, there's always 4-9 or so that "get it" and become > completely obsessed with the terminal, self-hosting, they buy numerous raspberry > pis, they stay awake until 5 in the morning tinkering. > > Those guys go on the become rock stars! > > The rest go to the office at 09 and leave at 17, and that's about it. And I think that's fine for us because these about 6 people of every class of 35 is enough to pack the USENET. But most of them are not here. That's what's sad. They should be here. They would enjoy being here. But I think somehow they're not. This suggests a certain inertia. But what I find more likely is that you're overestimating. Perhaps it's more like 0.35 rock stars in every class of about 35. I take it seriously that they could be right---that somehow we should all be on Discord. But, no, intelligence always wins and the fact is that the tools we're using here (for communication) is absolutely better[1] than the more recent commercial alternatives. [1] Better for fact, knowledge seekers.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 23:02 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <800485e9-89a6-61a3-d94d-84df476bb6f5@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26529 |
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> It is strange that usenet has disappeared from the common mind. I find it >> excellent! Especially since google disconnected it got even better! > > That's right! Thanks, Google Inc., for leaving us alone. :) =) >> There is a challenge though. In todays reincarnation, I find the nr of posts >> more than manageable. But if I think of a scenario where the nr of posts would >> increase tenfold, there would be no chance of catching up, except using the >> narrowest of the narrow sorting based on author and subject line. >> >> Today, I can casually browse and glance at most posts, but with 10x the nr of >> posts, that would not be feasible. > > I already find it unwieldy. But I don't think we have to follow every > thread. You can follow that subthread you got yourself involved. Using > Gnus, there are two things that I do. Articles that I'd like to > follow-up are ticket---so appear in red for me. Articles that were > replies to my own posted articles get the highest score and so they > appear in bold. > > https://0x0.st/8Tsq.png > > I ticked your article just to show you something red. It wasn't red > before. Yes, I also only show three letters for each author because I > usually don't care to know who I'm talking to, but since identity does > help to understand what the person is saying, three letters is enough. For the moment all works for me with a flat layout based on time of arrival. But should the nr of posts increase, I think I shall have to switch back to thread layout and actually explore scoring like you do to get some nice automation into my reading. For the longest time inertia kept me from using colors in alpine, and finally, when I had a slow day in the office I did take some time to customize it, and lo and behold, it did save me a couple of minutes daily by making some things easier to spot, so count that up in a year, and it was a very nice time saving initiative! >> I think there is a limit where the usenet model breaks down for most users who >> are not into cli clients. > > Yeah. It's not going to work for regular people. However, there's > something that I think it should work for regular people---low volume > NNTP servers. Leafnode I think would be quite a nice piece of software for small, local nntp servers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leafnode I use part of its functionality to pull in usenet into my mail client. > But it turns out that even mailing lists don't work for regular people > because e-mail doesn't work for regular people. Even Discord or Slack > doesn't quite work for regular people. Perhaps nothing works for > regular people. They do not find ways to tame information on their > computer screens. Regular people don't want to use desktops anymore; > they want to use their phones. This is the truth! I am worried that people are turning more into digital consumers than digital producers. used in such a way, digital technology can become a drain on the soul. Computers were supposed to be creative tools! I get the feeling that for many, they have instead become devices of slavery. It is a very sad development. I love text only interfaces, I love reading. I don't own a smart phone and I feel very sad when I'm on a bus or in a subway car and see 99% of people staring in silence into their phones. It seems like quite a dystopia for me. =( > NNTP, the USENET, e-mail, these are systems that only the people thristy > for knowledge really use---that 17% of your class of 35. I wonder if they will discover it? I was happy when I offered a 1 hour free and voluntary session with the topic of learning the basics of vim, and 11 out of 35 said it was interesting! =D This makes me feel hope! >> In every class of about 35, there's always 4-9 or so that "get it" and become >> completely obsessed with the terminal, self-hosting, they buy numerous raspberry >> pis, they stay awake until 5 in the morning tinkering. >> >> Those guys go on the become rock stars! >> >> The rest go to the office at 09 and leave at 17, and that's about it. > > And I think that's fine for us because these about 6 people of every > class of 35 is enough to pack the USENET. But most of them are not This is the truth! Hmm, maybe I should add an hour or two next semester on the topic of retro-computing? ;) > here. That's what's sad. They should be here. They would enjoy being > here. But I think somehow they're not. This suggests a certain > inertia. But what I find more likely is that you're overestimating. > Perhaps it's more like 0.35 rock stars in every class of about 35. > > I take it seriously that they could be right---that somehow we should > all be on Discord. But, no, intelligence always wins and the fact is > that the tools we're using here (for communication) is absolutely > better[1] than the more recent commercial alternatives. Well, I do sometimes chat on my business partners mattermost, but only if live audio/video and email is not an option. Fortunately for me, that turns out to be about once or twice a year. ;) But the young whipper snappers do chat happily away from time to time, and I am happy that they are just not dragging me into it. Only today was one of my younger partners telling the class that my emails are quite something to behold. Long and packed with all the information the person needs to perform the task. At first he found it draining and stressful, but then he learned that I do not demand instant replies when I email (then I call or write in the email that it is urgent) and after a while he learned to appreciate that all information he might need is in the email. > [1] Better for fact, knowledge seekers. >
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 22:44 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87r03scbr3.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26539 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: [...] >> Yeah. It's not going to work for regular people. However, there's >> something that I think it should work for regular people---low volume >> NNTP servers. > > Leafnode I think would be quite a nice piece of software for small, local nntp > servers. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leafnode > > I use part of its functionality to pull in usenet into my mail client. I need to look into leafnode again. Now I don't think leafnode can peer with a USENET server, right? I think we should have a server that does. I'm willing to write it. My desire is to have an NNTP server that can host your local groups there, easily. And your friends who will connect to see your local groups should also see some USENET groups along with them. So the NNTP server should also be able to peer with a USENET server. Doesn't need to be a powerful server like INN2 does. All in one. I would be surprised if INN2 doesn't do all of this, but I think we should have other alternatives with newer ideas too. For instance, I think these smaller servers should be mostly closed (with passwords or cryptographic keys or certificates) because they're meant for a group of friends who know each other. Each user should be able to create local groups and new accounts, forming a small community. (A good community is one in which every member has roughly the same powers as every other member.) This small community should have access to the USENET (by using their very community server). That's roughly the idea. The server should be hackable; perhaps hackable in real time; so a dynamic language seems the right fit for it. >> But it turns out that even mailing lists don't work for regular people >> because e-mail doesn't work for regular people. Even Discord or Slack >> doesn't quite work for regular people. Perhaps nothing works for >> regular people. They do not find ways to tame information on their >> computer screens. Regular people don't want to use desktops anymore; >> they want to use their phones. > > This is the truth! I am worried that people are turning more into digital > consumers than digital producers. used in such a way, digital technology can > become a drain on the soul. > > Computers were supposed to be creative tools! I get the feeling that for many, > they have instead become devices of slavery. It is a very sad development. I > love text only interfaces, I love reading. I don't own a smart phone and I feel > very sad when I'm on a bus or in a subway car and see 99% of people staring in > silence into their phones. It seems like quite a dystopia for me. =( It's sad indeed. On the bright side, we seem to be immune to that. At least *we* are not in such a pit. :) Better than nothing. :) >> NNTP, the USENET, e-mail, these are systems that only the people thristy >> for knowledge really use---that 17% of your class of 35. > > I wonder if they will discover it? I was happy when I offered a 1 hour free and > voluntary session with the topic of learning the basics of vim, and 11 out of 35 > said it was interesting! =D They find it interesting. But it seems to stop there. > This makes me feel hope! Honestly, I've only had this hope when I was a teenager myself. >>> In every class of about 35, there's always 4-9 or so that "get it" and become >>> completely obsessed with the terminal, self-hosting, they buy >>> numerous raspberry >>> pis, they stay awake until 5 in the morning tinkering. >>> >>> Those guys go on the become rock stars! >>> >>> The rest go to the office at 09 and leave at 17, and that's about it. >> >> And I think that's fine for us because these about 6 people of every >> class of 35 is enough to pack the USENET. But most of them are not > > This is the truth! Hmm, maybe I should add an hour or two next semester on the > topic of retro-computing? ;) Lol. Why not? :) >> here. That's what's sad. They should be here. They would enjoy being >> here. But I think somehow they're not. This suggests a certain >> inertia. But what I find more likely is that you're overestimating. >> Perhaps it's more like 0.35 rock stars in every class of about 35. >> >> I take it seriously that they could be right---that somehow we should >> all be on Discord. But, no, intelligence always wins and the fact is >> that the tools we're using here (for communication) is absolutely >> better[1] than the more recent commercial alternatives. > > Well, I do sometimes chat on my business partners mattermost, but only if live > audio/video and email is not an option. Fortunately for me, that turns out to be > about once or twice a year. ;) > > But the young whipper snappers do chat happily away from time to time, and I am > happy that they are just not dragging me into it. > > Only today was one of my younger partners telling the class that my emails are > quite something to behold. Long and packed with all the information the person > needs to perform the task. At first he found it draining and stressful, but then > he learned that I do not demand instant replies when I email (then I call or > write in the email that it is urgent) and after a while he learned to appreciate > that all information he might need is in the email. Yeah---young people don't quite get e-mail. They never read about e-mail. Perhaps one thing that's against them (and it was not against us) is that they have a lot of options today. We didn't have this many options. We started out on a simpler world. So we were able to stay at the top of the game over the years. And so we mastered it. Now we're experienced and we handle the complexities of the world with the help of our experience. They don't have these tools available. They could get here quickly, but they're lost. Instructions we give them don't suffice: perhaps because people must discover things for themselves. That's perhaps why education only works for those who actually don't need one.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 10:43 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <b0ddc4d8-8972-8ba9-aba7-c4ecb80b95eb@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26553 |
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > > [...] > >>> Yeah. It's not going to work for regular people. However, there's >>> something that I think it should work for regular people---low volume >>> NNTP servers. >> >> Leafnode I think would be quite a nice piece of software for small, local nntp >> servers. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leafnode >> >> I use part of its functionality to pull in usenet into my mail client. > > I need to look into leafnode again. Now I don't think leafnode can peer > with a USENET server, right? I think we should have a server that does. > I'm willing to write it. I think you are right. It doesn't peer, but it does pull selected groups and latest posts from a "real" nntp server. However! It saves all messages in a local spool folder, and since nntp is a nice and simple retro-protocols, it is trivial to understand the format. So what you could do, between 2 leafnode servers, is to just reverse engineer the format and "copy" the spool directory between the two leafnode installations and all the messages will pop up on the other leafnode as well. > My desire is to have an NNTP server that can host your local groups > there, easily. And your friends who will connect to see your local > groups should also see some USENET groups along with them. So the NNTP > server should also be able to peer with a USENET server. Doesn't need > to be a powerful server like INN2 does. All in one. I think this should be doable. > I would be surprised if INN2 doesn't do all of this, but I think we > should have other alternatives with newer ideas too. For instance, I The reason I did not go the INN2 route was that I wanted some small and simple, for pulling messages one way only. Leafnode at first had some restrictions such as needing a valid DNS name which was a pain, so I simply deleted its checks, and now the server can be named anything I want, which is fine, since I'm not peering. This can of course be added back if you want it. > think these smaller servers should be mostly closed (with passwords or > cryptographic keys or certificates) because they're meant for a group of > friends who know each other. Each user should be able to create local > groups and new accounts, forming a small community. (A good community > is one in which every member has roughly the same powers as every other > member.) This small community should have access to the USENET (by > using their very community server). That's roughly the idea. The > server should be hackable; perhaps hackable in real time; so a dynamic > language seems the right fit for it. A "hack" around it is to just run it with stunnel or over a vpn. That way it is "private" and you don't need to add something to the software itself in terms of passwords. >>> But it turns out that even mailing lists don't work for regular people >>> because e-mail doesn't work for regular people. Even Discord or Slack >>> doesn't quite work for regular people. Perhaps nothing works for >>> regular people. They do not find ways to tame information on their >>> computer screens. Regular people don't want to use desktops anymore; >>> they want to use their phones. >> >> This is the truth! I am worried that people are turning more into digital >> consumers than digital producers. used in such a way, digital technology can >> become a drain on the soul. >> >> Computers were supposed to be creative tools! I get the feeling that for many, >> they have instead become devices of slavery. It is a very sad development. I >> love text only interfaces, I love reading. I don't own a smart phone and I feel >> very sad when I'm on a bus or in a subway car and see 99% of people staring in >> silence into their phones. It seems like quite a dystopia for me. =( > > It's sad indeed. On the bright side, we seem to be immune to that. At > least *we* are not in such a pit. :) Better than nothing. :) True! =) >> Only today was one of my younger partners telling the class that my emails are >> quite something to behold. Long and packed with all the information the person >> needs to perform the task. At first he found it draining and stressful, but then >> he learned that I do not demand instant replies when I email (then I call or >> write in the email that it is urgent) and after a while he learned to appreciate >> that all information he might need is in the email. > > Yeah---young people don't quite get e-mail. They never read about > e-mail. Perhaps one thing that's against them (and it was not against > us) is that they have a lot of options today. We didn't have this many > options. We started out on a simpler world. So we were able to stay at > the top of the game over the years. And so we mastered it. Now we're > experienced and we handle the complexities of the world with the help of > our experience. They don't have these tools available. They could get > here quickly, but they're lost. Instructions we give them don't > suffice: perhaps because people must discover things for themselves. > That's perhaps why education only works for those who actually don't > need one. I think is perhaps somewhat of a downward trend. I feel awe when talking to the older generations who had to learn the hardware, program in assembler and so on. In my generation, hardware and assembler were solved problems, so the programming was done in higher level languages. Todays generation don't even see the hardware, they all use cloud servers and python. So the original foundation gets further and further away. Only a small set of hw wizards still care and know about that layer of the stack.
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-23 23:04 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <875xl03xok.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26568 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >> >> [...] >> >>>> Yeah. It's not going to work for regular people. However, there's >>>> something that I think it should work for regular people---low volume >>>> NNTP servers. >>> >>> Leafnode I think would be quite a nice piece of software for small, >>> local nntp >>> servers. >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leafnode >>> >>> I use part of its functionality to pull in usenet into my mail client. >> >> I need to look into leafnode again. Now I don't think leafnode can peer >> with a USENET server, right? I think we should have a server that does. >> I'm willing to write it. > > I think you are right. It doesn't peer, but it does pull selected > groups and latest posts from a "real" nntp server. > > However! > > It saves all messages in a local spool folder, and since nntp is a > nice and simple retro-protocols, it is trivial to understand the > format. So what you could do, between 2 leafnode servers, is to just > reverse engineer the format and "copy" the spool directory between the > two leafnode installations and all the messages will pop up on the > other leafnode as well. Okay, but the question was to just to confirm my mostly-forgotten recollections of Leafnode. I wouldn't mind working on it to make it peer via NNTP itself. But I would much rather write a completely new in a non-C language. >> I would be surprised if INN2 doesn't do all of this, but I think we >> should have other alternatives with newer ideas too. For instance, I > > The reason I did not go the INN2 route was that I wanted some small > and simple, for pulling messages one way only. Leafnode at first had > some restrictions such as needing a valid DNS name which was a pain, > so I simply deleted its checks, and now the server can be named > anything I want, which is fine, since I'm not peering. This can of > course be added back if you want it. I never used INN2, but I do suspect that it's made for a serious USENET server and that it's more complex that it needs to be for the idea of a network of small NNTP servers. >>> Only today was one of my younger partners telling the class that my >>> emails are quite something to behold. Long and packed with all the >>> information the person needs to perform the task. At first he found >>> it draining and stressful, but then he learned that I do not demand >>> instant replies when I email (then I call or write in the email that >>> it is urgent) and after a while he learned to appreciate that all >>> information he might need is in the email. >> >> Yeah---young people don't quite get e-mail. They never read about >> e-mail. Perhaps one thing that's against them (and it was not against >> us) is that they have a lot of options today. We didn't have this many >> options. We started out on a simpler world. So we were able to stay at >> the top of the game over the years. And so we mastered it. Now we're >> experienced and we handle the complexities of the world with the help of >> our experience. They don't have these tools available. They could get >> here quickly, but they're lost. Instructions we give them don't >> suffice: perhaps because people must discover things for themselves. >> That's perhaps why education only works for those who actually don't >> need one. > > I think is perhaps somewhat of a downward trend. I feel awe when > talking to the older generations who had to learn the hardware, > program in assembler and so on. I feel the same. Like you, I feel great learning from the older generations. In fact, I often think that they were privileged for being able to be there first. I identified this easily enough to develop a passion for studying the history of computer science, which makes me look very old now because I use a lot of very old tools, which are awesome tools despite their age. I got a web post by Joel Spolsky the phrase that ``software doesn't get dusty''. > In my generation, hardware and assembler were solved problems, so the > programming was done in higher level languages. > > Todays generation don't even see the hardware, they all use cloud > servers and python. > > So the original foundation gets further and further away. Only a small > set of hw wizards still care and know about that layer of the stack. That's quite right. I went through the same. The whole thing was pretty much already done. I believe I am not very fond of directly interacting with hardware myself. For example, I usually like to have a very clean office---no wires (if I could), not a lot of gadgets around. Nevertheless, I feel obsessed by computers and I try to get close to the hardware by more abstract means. For instance, I've been reading about the 6502 and it seems like such a simple CPU that it makes up for a very great computer architecture first introduction, unlike x86, say.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 11:01 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <4cc33db7-d48f-98f9-7f36-fe20ee6f73a9@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26620 |
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> It saves all messages in a local spool folder, and since nntp is a >> nice and simple retro-protocols, it is trivial to understand the >> format. So what you could do, between 2 leafnode servers, is to just >> reverse engineer the format and "copy" the spool directory between the >> two leafnode installations and all the messages will pop up on the >> other leafnode as well. > > Okay, but the question was to just to confirm my mostly-forgotten > recollections of Leafnode. I wouldn't mind working on it to make it > peer via NNTP itself. But I would much rather write a completely new in > a non-C language. I wonder if there are any good C to Go converters out there? Would be interesting to see how much effort it would take to convert leafnode from c to go? Maybe then, it would be an easier code base to work with? >>> I would be surprised if INN2 doesn't do all of this, but I think we >>> should have other alternatives with newer ideas too. For instance, I >> >> The reason I did not go the INN2 route was that I wanted some small >> and simple, for pulling messages one way only. Leafnode at first had >> some restrictions such as needing a valid DNS name which was a pain, >> so I simply deleted its checks, and now the server can be named >> anything I want, which is fine, since I'm not peering. This can of >> course be added back if you want it. > > I never used INN2, but I do suspect that it's made for a serious USENET > server and that it's more complex that it needs to be for the idea of a > network of small NNTP servers. Yes, I think it is way more complex than leafnode. >> I think is perhaps somewhat of a downward trend. I feel awe when >> talking to the older generations who had to learn the hardware, >> program in assembler and so on. > > I feel the same. Like you, I feel great learning from the older > generations. In fact, I often think that they were privileged for being > able to be there first. I identified this easily enough to develop a > passion for studying the history of computer science, which makes me > look very old now because I use a lot of very old tools, which are > awesome tools despite their age. I got a web post by Joel Spolsky the > phrase that ``software doesn't get dusty''. True. I have a retro-class on thursday and will show them some nice stuff in the form of vim, alpine, and midnight commander. Apart from a shell (bash) those are my main tools in the terminal. >> In my generation, hardware and assembler were solved problems, so the >> programming was done in higher level languages. >> >> Todays generation don't even see the hardware, they all use cloud >> servers and python. >> >> So the original foundation gets further and further away. Only a small >> set of hw wizards still care and know about that layer of the stack. > > That's quite right. I went through the same. The whole thing was > pretty much already done. I believe I am not very fond of directly > interacting with hardware myself. For example, I usually like to have a > very clean office---no wires (if I could), not a lot of gadgets around. When I was young, as a system administrator, I loved wires all around, disk drives, NIC:s, power supplies etc. My office would look like a junk yard. But as I grew older and moved more and more into sales, I now have younger guys who have taken over that role, and that messiness. ;) My office now has one cable, and that is the power cable. Since I get about 13-14 hours out of my laptop, I don't even need a power cable during the working day, unless I have many hours of video calls on that day. > Nevertheless, I feel obsessed by computers and I try to get close to the > hardware by more abstract means. For instance, I've been reading about > the 6502 and it seems like such a simple CPU that it makes up for a very > great computer architecture first introduction, unlike x86, say. I remember programming for the Z80 when I was young, on my calculator, and also, of course, assembler on the 486. Those were the days! =)
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 13:46 -0300 |
| Subject | broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) |
| Message-ID | <87ecznxpcw.fsf_-_@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26635 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Sun, 23 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >>> It saves all messages in a local spool folder, and since nntp is a >>> nice and simple retro-protocols, it is trivial to understand the >>> format. So what you could do, between 2 leafnode servers, is to just >>> reverse engineer the format and "copy" the spool directory between the >>> two leafnode installations and all the messages will pop up on the >>> other leafnode as well. >> >> Okay, but the question was to just to confirm my mostly-forgotten >> recollections of Leafnode. I wouldn't mind working on it to make it >> peer via NNTP itself. But I would much rather write a completely new in >> a non-C language. > > I wonder if there are any good C to Go converters out there? Would be > interesting to see how much effort it would take to convert leafnode from c to > go? Maybe then, it would be an easier code base to work with? I know C a lot more than I know Go---nothing. :) I've already began some work in Common Lisp. >>> I think is perhaps somewhat of a downward trend. I feel awe when >>> talking to the older generations who had to learn the hardware, >>> program in assembler and so on. >> >> I feel the same. Like you, I feel great learning from the older >> generations. In fact, I often think that they were privileged for being >> able to be there first. I identified this easily enough to develop a >> passion for studying the history of computer science, which makes me >> look very old now because I use a lot of very old tools, which are >> awesome tools despite their age. I got a web post by Joel Spolsky the >> phrase that ``software doesn't get dusty''. > > True. I have a retro-class on thursday and will show them some nice stuff in the > form of vim, alpine, and midnight commander. Apart from a shell (bash) those are > my main tools in the terminal. Hey... GNU EMACS. :) >> Nevertheless, I feel obsessed by computers and I try to get close to the >> hardware by more abstract means. For instance, I've been reading about >> the 6502 and it seems like such a simple CPU that it makes up for a very >> great computer architecture first introduction, unlike x86, say. > > I remember programming for the Z80 when I was young, on my calculator, and also, > of course, assembler on the 486. Those were the days! =) Lol. You have more experience than I do. I did own a 486 DX2 66 MHz (that was my first), but I wrote no assembly at all---I didn't even know there was assembly or machine code back then. I did get to know the BIOS pretty well, though, but I had not much of an idea how it really fit into the hardware. (I took four to five years to realize that I had to get involved with programming to really understand the computer.) Pretty funny, though, the first book I read was called ``HARDWARE''. It was an x86 computer architecture book, superficial, that explained how the parts connected or something. That book was very influential because it showed me that, by reading it, I could actually make sense of taking the computer apart and putting it back on. I consciously realized---I can read and get knowledge. (Schools always recommended reading, but they never really recommended technical reading---they seemed to recommended only national literature.) From that point on, I never stopped to read technical books, which gave me a new realization of how amazingly broken schools are. And the problem is not so much in the system itself---it's more in the people who run that system. Many years later, as a result, when I was in graduate school, instead of choosing a topic to write on, I chose an adviser to work with. I couldn't care less about any topic; I asked my adviser---what are you working on? Let's work on that. You see? Anything is interesting so long as the people working on it are interesting. When they are not, no method will do.
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