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50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution

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  50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution "internetado" <internetado@fanless.alt119.net> - 2024-08-11 18:38 -0300
    Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-12 11:51 +0042
      Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-08-12 15:03 +0000
        Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-08-12 15:18 +0000
      Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 23:09 +0000
    Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-12 08:24 -0700
      Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-12 17:12 +0100
        Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-12 10:04 -0700
          Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2024-08-12 21:45 +0100
          Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-12 21:53 +0100
            Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-13 08:40 -0700
              Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:51 +0000
                Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-13 21:47 -0700
                  Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 05:41 +0000
                    Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-14 13:34 -0300
                      Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-14 19:58 +0000
      Re: 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 23:12 +0000

#25478 — 50 years ago, CP/M started the microcomputer revolution

  To: comp.misc
CP/M is turning 50 this year.

The ancient Control Program for Microcomputers, or CP/M for short, has 
been enjoying a modest renaissance in recent years. By 21st century 
standards, it's unimaginably tiny and simple. The whole OS fits into 
under 200 kB, and the resident bit of the kernel is only about 3 kB. 
Today, in the era of end-user OSes in the tens-of-gigabytes size range, 
this exerts a fascination to a certain kind of hobbyist. Back when it 
was new, though, this wasn't minimalist - it was all that early 
hardware could support.
 Liam Proven

I'm a little too young to have experienced CP/M as anything other than 
a retro platform - I'm from 1984, and we got our first computer in 1990 
or so - but its importance and influence cannot be overstated. Many of 
the conventions set by CP/M made their way to the various DOS variants, 
and in turn, we still see some of those conventions in Windows today. 
Had Digital Research, the company CP/M creator Gary Kildall set up to 
sell CP/M, accepted the deal with IBM to make CP/M the default 
operating system for the then newly-created IBM PC, we'd be living in a 
very different world today.

Digital Research would also create several other popular and/or 
influential software products beyond CP/M, such as DR DOS and GEM, as 
well as various other DOS variants and CP/M versions with DOS 
compatibility. It would eventually be acquired by Novell, where it 
faded into obscurity.

https://www.osnews.com/story/140419/50-years-ago-cp-m-started-the-microcomputer-revolution/
-- 

Internetado.
bbs.alt119.net

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#25481

"internetado" <internetado@fanless.alt119.net> writes:

> Had Digital Research, the company CP/M
> creator Gary Kildall set up to sell CP/M, accepted the deal with IBM
> to make CP/M the default operating system for the then newly-created
> IBM PC, we'd be living in a very different world today.

CP/M was reimplemented by Seattle Computer Products as "Quick and Dirty
Operation System"[0] and later Microsoft bought it and stripped the
"Quick and" and kept DOS as name.  Shouldn't that once and forever
explain how to read the "D" of "DOS"?  o;-)

I used CP/M-Z80 for a while and when MSDOS appeared, I avoided it for a
long time, but when I finally had to do some stuff on it, I immediately
felt kind of at home due to the similar structure of the OS function
calls.  That felt strange.  Maybe even a bit shady.

____________

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_and_Dirty_Operating_System

-- 
I do not bite, I just want to play.

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#25483

yeti  <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
>"internetado" <internetado@fanless.alt119.net> writes:
>
>> Had Digital Research, the company CP/M
>> creator Gary Kildall set up to sell CP/M, accepted the deal with IBM
>> to make CP/M the default operating system for the then newly-created
>> IBM PC, we'd be living in a very different world today.

You could get CP/M-86 with the PC for a small fee, or PC-DOS for free,
or a couple other options including the UCSD P-System.  Most people got
MS-DOS because they didn't have a need or know about the software available
already for CP/M-86.  Note that what was available for CP/M-86 was a tiny
fraction of what was available for CP/M 2.2 on the 8080, even if it was a
lot more than was available for CP/M-68K.

>CP/M was reimplemented by Seattle Computer Products as "Quick and Dirty
>Operation System"[0] and later Microsoft bought it and stripped the
>"Quick and" and kept DOS as name.  Shouldn't that once and forever
>explain how to read the "D" of "DOS"?  o;-)

I wouldn't call Q-DOS and the later PC-DOS reimplementations of CP/M.
The user interface was more or less modelled on CP/M but with a lot of
important things done wrong because the people who did it didn't really
understand CP/M and because engineers shouldn't write code.

It does have lineage from CP/M but less than the lineage CP/M has from
RT-11.  Notice that you use the PIP command to copy files in CP/M like
in RT-11 while PC-DOS introduces COPY, for instance.

>I used CP/M-Z80 for a while and when MSDOS appeared, I avoided it for a
>long time, but when I finally had to do some stuff on it, I immediately
>felt kind of at home due to the similar structure of the OS function
>calls.  That felt strange.  Maybe even a bit shady.

It's less like RT-11, sadly.  And the memory map is very strange to someone
used to writing CP-M 2.2 code.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#25484

On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 15:03:21 +0000, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> yeti  <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
>>"internetado" <internetado@fanless.alt119.net> writes:
>>
>>> Had Digital Research, the company CP/M creator Gary Kildall set up to
>>> sell CP/M, accepted the deal with IBM to make CP/M the default
>>> operating system for the then newly-created IBM PC, we'd be living in
>>> a very different world today.
> 
> You could get CP/M-86 with the PC for a small fee, or PC-DOS for free,

PC DOS was charged for by IBM, as I remember. Most other vendors bundled 
MS-DOS (which was slightly different)



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#25497

On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 11:51:32 +0042, yeti wrote:

> Shouldn't that once and forever explain how to read the "D" of "DOS"?

There have been umpteen different OSes called “DOS” or variations thereon, 
over the last sixty, maybe getting on to seventy years. The name “DOS” is 
as old as hard drives. In fact, it was intended to distinguish OSes that 
had adopted hard drives.

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#25485

On 8/11/24 2:38 PM, internetado wrote:

> Digital Research would also create several other popular and/or
> influential software products beyond CP/M, such as DR DOS and GEM, as
> well as various other DOS variants and CP/M versions with DOS
> compatibility. It would eventually be acquired by Novell, where it
> faded into obscurity.
> 
> https://www.osnews.com/story/140419/50-years-ago-cp-m-started-the-microcomputer-revolution/

Nobody ever mentions GEM!  I used Ventura Publisher under GEM -- an 
expensive and unweildy piece of software which produced excellent 
results once you beat it into submission and never tried to make it do 
anything it really didn't want to do.

I didn't know that GEM was a Kildall thing.  Novell seemed to be as good 
at killing things as Microsoft is at stealing them.

-- 
Cheers, Bev
   "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can
    only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote
    themselves largess out of the public treasury."
                                     -- Alexander Tyler (Unverified)

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#25488

On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 08:24:46 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 8/11/24 2:38 PM, internetado wrote:
>> Digital Research would also create several other popular and/or
>> influential software products beyond CP/M, such as DR DOS and GEM, as
>> well as various other DOS variants and CP/M versions with DOS
>> compatibility. It would eventually be acquired by Novell, where it
>> faded into obscurity.
>> https://www.osnews.com/story/140419/50-years-ago-cp-m-started-the-microcomputer-revolution/
>
>Nobody ever mentions GEM!  I used Ventura Publisher under GEM -- an 
>expensive and unweildy piece of software which produced excellent 
>results once you beat it into submission and never tried to make it do 
>anything it really didn't want to do.
>I didn't know that GEM was a Kildall thing.  Novell seemed to be as good 
>at killing things as Microsoft is at stealing them.

couldn't recall "gem" . . . 

(using Tor Browser 13.5.2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEM_(desktop_environment)
>GEM (for Graphics Environment Manager[2]) is a discontinued operating
>environment released by Digital Research in 1985. GEM is known primarily
>as the native graphical user interface of the Atari ST series of computers,
>providing a WIMP desktop. It was also available for IBM PC compatibles
>[3][4] and shipped with some models from Amstrad. GEM is used as the core
>for some commercial MS-DOS programs, the most notable being Ventura
>Publisher. It was ported to other computers that previously lacked
>graphical interfaces, but never gained traction. The final retail version
>of GEM was released in 1988.
>Digital Research later produced X/GEM for their FlexOS[3][5] real-time
>operating system with adaptations for OS/2 Presentation Manager[6][3] and
>the X Window System under preparation as well.[3] 
[end quote]

but i did use ventura publisher extensively back in the day . . .

(using Tor Browser 13.5.2)
https://archive.org/details/xerox-ventura-publisher-4.1-for-windows-4.1-1992-10-english-3.5-1.44-mb
>Xerox Ventura Publisher 4.1 For Windows
>by Xerox
>Publication date  1992 
>Topics            Xerox, Ventura, Publisher, Corel
>Language          English
>Xerox Ventura Publisher 4.1 For Windows ( 4.1) ( 1992 10) [ English]
>( 3.5'' 1.44 MB)
>Addeddate         2020-08-01 13:03:00
>Identifier        xerox-ventura-publisher-4.1-for-windows-4.1-1992-10-
>                  english-3.5-1.44-mb
>Scanner           Internet Archive HTML5 Uploader 1.6.4
>There are no reviews yet. Be the first one to write a review.
>576 Views
>3 Favorites
>ZIP FILES
>Media Scans.zip   43.0M
>https://archive.org/download/xerox-ventura-publisher-4.1-for-windows-4.1-1992-10-english-3.5-1.44-mb/Media%20Scans.zip
>Xerox Ventura Publisher 4.1 for Windows (4.1)
>(1992-10) [English] (3.5''-1.44MB).zip   5.7M
>https://archive.org/download/xerox-ventura-publisher-4.1-for-windows-4.1-1992-10-english-3.5-1.44-mb/Xerox%20Ventura%20Publisher%204.1%20for%20Windows%20%284.1%29%20%281992-10%29%20%5BEnglish%5D%20%283.5%27%27-1.44MB%29.zip
Xerox Ventura Publisher 4.1 for Windows (4.1) (1992-10) [English] (3.5''-1.44MB).zip
 / 5.67 MB, extracted folder . . .
Xerox Ventura Publisher 4.1 for Windows (4.1) (1992-10) [English] (3.5''-1.44MB)
 / 8.01 MB, 7 Files, 3 Folders
disk1.img
   \APP
   \DAN
   \DEU
   \ENG
   \ESP
   \FRA
   \ITA
   \NED
   \NOR
   \POR
   \SVE
   B
   CMYKPROC.TX_
   CMYKSPOT.TX_
   DEFAULT.ST_
   DIALOG3D.DLL
   DITHER.VP
   HPGL.BF_
   LZEXPAND.DLL
   MUSCROLL.DLL
   PALETTE.HL_
   PARAMS.PP_
   PCTTOGEM.CN_
   README.TXT
   RGBPROC.TX_
   RGBSPOT.TX_
   SETUP.EXE
   SETUP2.EXE
   SPLDICT.PD
   VER.DLL
   VPWIN.EX_
   VPWIN.ME_
   VPWIN.MS_
   WFNTLOOK.UP
   WHM_ENG.WH_
   WVENT72.FO_
   WVENT96.FO_
disk2.img
   &BOOK-P1.CA_
   &BOOK-P1.CH_
   ... (*.*_)
   WWSUK.WL_
   WXYWRITE.WL_
disk3.img
   \PFM
   \UTILITY
   DANSK.WH_
   DEUTSCH.WH_
   ... (*.*_)
   WINHELP.HL_
   WUENGLSH.WH_ 
disk4.img
   \NFILTERS
   COMMDLG.DL_
   DDEML.DL_
   ... (*.*_)
   VSEPS.DL_
   VSEPS.HL_

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#25490

On 8/12/24 9:12 AM, D wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 08:24:46 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 8/11/24 2:38 PM, internetado wrote:
>>> Digital Research would also create several other popular and/or
>>> influential software products beyond CP/M, such as DR DOS and GEM, as
>>> well as various other DOS variants and CP/M versions with DOS
>>> compatibility. It would eventually be acquired by Novell, where it
>>> faded into obscurity.
>>> https://www.osnews.com/story/140419/50-years-ago-cp-m-started-the-microcomputer-revolution/
>>
>>Nobody ever mentions GEM!  I used Ventura Publisher under GEM -- an 
>>expensive and unweildy piece of software which produced excellent 
>>results once you beat it into submission and never tried to make it do 
>>anything it really didn't want to do.
>>I didn't know that GEM was a Kildall thing.  Novell seemed to be as good 
>>at killing things as Microsoft is at stealing them.
> 
> couldn't recall "gem" . . .
> 
> (using Tor Browser 13.5.2)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEM_(desktop_environment)
>>GEM (for Graphics Environment Manager[2]) is a discontinued operating
>>environment released by Digital Research in 1985. GEM is known primarily
>>as the native graphical user interface of the Atari ST series of computers,
>>providing a WIMP desktop. It was also available for IBM PC compatibles
>>[3][4] and shipped with some models from Amstrad. GEM is used as the core
>>for some commercial MS-DOS programs, the most notable being Ventura
>>Publisher. It was ported to other computers that previously lacked
>>graphical interfaces, but never gained traction. The final retail version
>>of GEM was released in 1988.
>>Digital Research later produced X/GEM for their FlexOS[3][5] real-time
>>operating system with adaptations for OS/2 Presentation Manager[6][3] and
>>the X Window System under preparation as well.[3] 
> [end quote]
> 
> but i did use ventura publisher extensively back in the day . . .
> 
> (using Tor Browser 13.5.2)
> https://archive.org/details/xerox-ventura-publisher-4.1-for-windows-4.1-1992-10-english-3.5-1.44-mb
>>Xerox Ventura Publisher 4.1 For Windows
>>by Xerox
>>Publication date  1992 ...

As I recall, when you executed Ventura (from a floppy, of course) it 
first brought up GEM.  That was the only time I ever saw it.  I used VP 
first in 1988 or 89, and then at a different job in 1991.  Before 
Windows 3.0 in 1990, according to Gemini. Must have been MSDOS...


-- 
Cheers, Bev
    The stone age didn't end for lack of stones.
                           -- Troy the Troll

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#25494

On 12/08/2024 18:04, The Real Bev wrote:

> As I recall, when you executed Ventura (from a floppy, of course) it 
> first brought up GEM.  That was the only time I ever saw it.  I used VP 
> first in 1988 or 89, and then at a different job in 1991.  Before 
> Windows 3.0 in 1990, according to Gemini. Must have been MSDOS...
> 
> 

GEM was DR's Graphics Environment Manager and was available for x86 and 
also ran on the Atari ST. It was a total dog, at least on the Atari. I 
had the misfortune to have to write software for it on the ST a long 
time back. I'm trying to suppress the nightmares returning.

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#25495

On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 10:04:28 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 8/12/24 9:12 AM, D wrote:
snip
>> but i did use ventura publisher extensively back in the day . . .
>> (using Tor Browser 13.5.2)
>> https://archive.org/details/xerox-ventura-publisher-4.1-for-windows-4.1-1992-10-english-3.5-1.44-mb
>>>Xerox Ventura Publisher 4.1 For Windows
>>>by Xerox
>>>Publication date  1992 ...
>
>As I recall, when you executed Ventura (from a floppy, of course) it 
>first brought up GEM.  That was the only time I ever saw it.  I used VP 
>first in 1988 or 89, and then at a different job in 1991.  Before 
>Windows 3.0 in 1990, according to Gemini. Must have been MSDOS...

for me it was back in the mid-80s when most computer users at a local
newspaper office in the denver area were using compaq/xt/286/mac, etc.
there could've been a gem logo when starting ventura publisher, but i
just don't recall; i do somewhat remember testing those archived 1992
vp "4.1" disks in dosbox (0.74-3) about ten months ago, but even then
i don't recall if any gem logo appeared for sure ... i suspect it did;
aldus pagemaker was my favorite, others preferred quarkxpress, but it
was wordstar and later wordperfect where most of the work i was doing
took place . . . (these articles are handy so i'm posting them again):
_______________________________________________________________________________
https://winworldpc.com/product/wordstar/300
>WordStar 3.00
>WordStar, originally from MicroPro, was a popular word processor during the
>early 80s. It was ported to a number of CP/M architectures as well as Unix
>and PC/MS-DOS. It competed directly against many word processors, including
>WordPerfect, Microsoft Word for DOS, and Multimate. By the late 80s most
>business word processing had moved to WordPerfect. In the early 90s, Microsoft
>Word for Windows took over.
>Also see a history of WordStar: A Potted History of WordStar and some earlier
>0.x versions at The WordStar Collection
>Wanted: Pre-1.0 versions were sold publicly. WordStar 0.87 redump, WordStar
>0.89, WordStar 0.91, WordStar 0.92, (Google results indicate these existed)
>WordStar 1.0. Early WordStar 2.0 releases were reported to be copy protected.
>Available releases
> 0.x/1.x
> 2.x
> 3.00 (current)
> 3.30
> for PCjr
> 2000
> 4.0
> 1512
> 5.0
> COLT
> 5.5
> 6
> 1.5 for Windows
> 7
> 2.0 for Windows
>Release notes
>Wanted: Wordstar 3.00 for PC/MS-DOS. Reportedly 3.0 was the first version available for DOS.
>Information
>Product type
> Application Word Processor 
>Vendor
> MicroPro
>Release date
> 1982
>Minimum CPU
> Z80
>User interface
> Text
>Platform
> CPM 
>Download count
> 35 (1 for release)
>Downloads
>Download name                                Version         Language  Architecture  File size Downloads
> WordStar 3.00 for CPM Manuals               3.00 for CPM    English   [Z80]         17.19MB   1
> WordStar 3.00 for CPM-80 (files)            3.00 for CPM-80 English   [Z80]        189.76KB   0
> https://winworldpc.com/download/08c3841f-c383-c398-c2b3-11c3a5c28f13
> https://winworldpc.com/download/08c3841f-c383-c398-c2b3-11c3a5c28f13/from/c3ae6ee2-8099-713d-3411-c3a6e280947e
  ("WordStar 3.00 for CPM-80 (files).7z" ; 188 KB / 192,512 bytes)
> WordStar 3.01 for CPM-80 (1982) (5.25-DSQD) 3.01 for CPM-80 English   [Z80]         11.05MB   0
> https://winworldpc.com/download/348b9ab2-df7d-11ec-8dc3-0200008a0da4
> https://winworldpc.com/download/348b9ab2-df7d-11ec-8dc3-0200008a0da4/from/c3ae6ee2-8099-713d-3411-c3a6e280947e
  ("WordStar 3.01 for CPM-80 (1982) (5.25-DSQD).7z" ; 10.5 MB / 11,055,104 bytes)
> WordStar 3.01 for CPM-80 Manuals (1982)     3.01 for CPM-80 English   [Z80]        145.37MB   0
>Comments
_______________________________________________________________________________
https://archive.org/details/WordPerfect5.1.1989-11-06
>WordPerfect 5.1 (1989-11-06)
>by WordPerfect
>Publication date  1989-11-06 
>Usage  Public Domain Mark 1.0  Creative Commons License  publicdomain
>Topics  WordPerfect, MS-DOS, Word Perfect, WordPerfect 5.1, Word Perfect 5.1, DOS
>Language  English
>WordPerfect 5.1 for MS-DOS (11-06-89)  (5.25 inch floppy)
>WordPerfect 5.1 for MS-DOS was first released on November 6, 1989. It was followed
>by numerous minor 5.1 updates, indicated by the file date stamps.
>This was the most popular and widely used version of the WordPerfect product.
>WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS adds drop-down menus, context sensitive help, tables, an
>equation editor, and spreadsheet handling.
>A stripped-down lightweight version of WordPerfect 5.1 was sold as LetterPerfect.
>The program was originally developed under contract at Brigham Young University
>for use on a Data General minicomputer in 1979. The authors retained the rights to
>the program, forming Satellite Systems International (SSI) to sell it under the
>name WordPerfect in 1980. A port to MS-DOS followed in 1982 and several greatly
>updated versions quickly followed. The application's feature list was considerably
>more advanced than contemporary MS-DOS applications like WordStar, and it rapidly
>displaced most other systems, especially after the 4.2 release in 1986. By release
>5.1 in 1989, WordPerfect had become a standard in the MS-DOS market.
>Addeddate  2017-03-12 19:10:38
>Identifier  WordPerfect5.1.1989-11-06
>Scanner  Internet Archive HTML5 Uploader 1.6.3
>There are no reviews yet. Be the first one to write a review.
>2,333 Views
>2 Favorites
>DOWNLOAD OPTIONS
>7Z  1 file
>https://archive.org/download/WordPerfect5.1.1989-11-06/WordPerfect%205.1%20%2811-06-89%29%20%285.25%29.7z
>TORRENT  1 file
>https://archive.org/download/WordPerfect5.1.1989-11-06/WordPerfect5.1.1989-11-06_archive.torrent
WordPerfect 5.1 (11-06-89) (5.25).7z / 3.98 MB, extracted folder . . .
WordPerfect 5.1 (11-06-89) (5.25) / 5.74 MB / 15 Files, 0 Folders
D1_Install1.img
   README.UTL
   INSTALL.EXE
   UPDATE.INS
   LEARN.SPN
   LEARN.S01
D2_Install2.img
   LEARN.S02
D3_Program1.img
   README.WP
   UPDATE.INS
   WP.SPN
   WP.S01
D4_Program2.img
   WP.S02
D5_Spell1.img
   README.SPL
   UPDATE.INS
   SPELL.SPN
   SPELL.S01
D6_Spell2.img
   SPELL.S02
D7_Ptr1.img
   README.PTR
   UPDATE.INS
   PTR.SPN
   PTR.S01
D8_Ptr2.img
   PTR.S02
D9_Printer1.img
   INSTALL.LST
   WPR1.SPN
   WPR1.S01
D10_Printer2.img
   WPR1.S02
D11_Printer3.img
   WPR1.S03
Graphics1.img
   1.BAT
   ABACUS.WPG
   ... (*.WPG)
   ICECREAM.WPG
   LIST.COM
   README.DOC
Graphics2.img
   1.BAT
   1913FORD.WPG
   3_5DISK.WPG
   5_25DISK.WPG
   DL.COM
   JAG.WPG
   ... (*.WPG)
   XMASTREE.WPG
   `89TBIRD.WPG
Graphics3.img
   README.BAT
   INSTALL.BAT
   PICTURES.EXE
winworldpc.com.txt
_______________________________________________________________________________
https://archive.org/details/word-perfect-5.2-for-windows-5.2-1993-04-english-3.5-1.44-mb
>by WordPerfect
>Publication date  1993-04 
>Topics  WordPerfect, 5.2, Corel
>Language  English
>WordPerfect 5.2 For Windows ( 5.2) ( 1993 04) [ English] ( 3.5'' 1.44 MB)
>Two incredible resources for WordPerfect can be found online at:
>WPUniverse.com - an independent and active community dedicated to WordPerfect
>and WordPerfect Office products like Quattro Pro, Presentations, Paradox, etc.
>WPDos.org - an amazing site for fans of the older versions of WordPerfect for
>DOS and Windows.  The site has numerous well-written and thorough tutorials
>for installing WordPerfect for DOS on modern Windows and Mac computers.
>Addeddate  2020-11-24 11:53:53
>Identifier  word-perfect-5.2-for-windows-5.2-1993-04-english-3.5-1.44-mb
>Scanner  Internet Archive HTML5 Uploader 1.6.4
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>340 Views
>3 Favorites
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>ZIP
>https://archive.org/download/word-perfect-5.2-for-windows-5.2-1993-04-english-3.5-1.44-mb/WordPerfect%205.2%20for%20Windows%20%285.2%29%20%281993-04%29%20%5BEnglish%5D%20%283.5%27%27-1.44MB%29.zip
WordPerfect 5.2 for Windows (5.2) (1993-04) [English] (3.5''-1.44MB).zip
 / 8.70 MB, extracted folder . . .
WordPerfect 5.2 for Windows (5.2) (1993-04) [English] (3.5''-1.44MB)
 / 10.6 MB, 9 Files, 1 Folders
atm.img
   ATM.CNF
   ATM16.DLL
   ATM32.DLL
   ATMCNTRL.EXE
   ATMSYS.DRV
   INSTALL.CNF
   INSTALL.EXE
   PROGDISK
   PSFONTS
   WPBD____.PFB
   WPBD____.PFM
   WPBE____.PFB
   WPBE____.PFM
   WPBR____.PFB
   WPBR____.PFM
   WPCE____.PFB
   WPCE____.PFM
   WPCP____.PFB
   WPCP____.PFM
   WPCS____.PFB
   WPCS____.PFM
   WPEU____.PFB
   WPEU____.PFM
   WPHO____.PFB
   WPHO____.PFM
   WPMH____.PFB
   WPMH____.PFM
   WPOE____.PFB
   WPOE____.PFM
   WPOT____.PFB
   WPOT____.PFM
   WPST____.PFB
   WPST____.PFM
   README.TXT
faxdirect.img
   DSK9555-.1
   EXPCOMM.DRV
   EXPVCD.386
   FAXDIR.S01
   FAXDIR.SPN
   INSTALL.DAT
   INSTALL.EXE
   README.LCN
   README.TXT
gramm5.img
   BITMAPS
   GWARC1
   GWARC2
   INSTALL.EX$
   INSTALL.EXE
   INSTALL.INS
   NETWORK.HLP
   NETWORK.INS
   README.TXT
program1.img
   INSTALL.DAT
   INSTALL.EXE
   INSTALL.LST
   README.LCN
   VER.DLL
   WP.S01
   WP.SPN
   WPBRIDGE.SER
   WPGIUS.HLP
program2.img
   WP.S02
program3.img
   WP.S03
program4.img
   WP.S04
program5.img
   WP.S05

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#25500

On 8/12/24 1:53 PM, D wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 10:04:28 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 8/12/24 9:12 AM, D wrote:
> snip
>>> but i did use ventura publisher extensively back in the day . . .
>>> (using Tor Browser 13.5.2)
>>> https://archive.org/details/xerox-ventura-publisher-4.1-for-windows-4.1-1992-10-english-3.5-1.44-mb
>>>>Xerox Ventura Publisher 4.1 For Windows
>>>>by Xerox
>>>>Publication date  1992 ...
>>
>>As I recall, when you executed Ventura (from a floppy, of course) it 
>>first brought up GEM.  That was the only time I ever saw it.  I used VP 
>>first in 1988 or 89, and then at a different job in 1991.  Before 
>>Windows 3.0 in 1990, according to Gemini. Must have been MSDOS...
> 
> for me it was back in the mid-80s when most computer users at a local
> newspaper office in the denver area were using compaq/xt/286/mac, etc.
> there could've been a gem logo when starting ventura publisher, but i
> just don't recall; i do somewhat remember testing those archived 1992
> vp "4.1" disks in dosbox (0.74-3) about ten months ago, but even then
> i don't recall if any gem logo appeared for sure ... i suspect it did;

There were a LOT of disks, and I was really sorry when I pitched them 
into the recycling bin along with a lot of other stuff that I used to 
use.  I gave the books to the library because I'm unable to throw books 
away -- at least they can do the triage with a professional attitude.

I really liked WordStar and was really regretful when I switched to Word 
Perfect because it did SOMETHING better that I wanted done.  A curious 
WP thing:  I temped for some title insurance people for a few weeks. 
They had a system where knowledgeable people would fill in (pencil) a 
template with codes indicating various descriptions etc. for the drones 
to type in.  After a while I (a drone) realized that the whole system 
was done with Word Perfect macro codes, a pretty slick application.


> aldus pagemaker was my favorite, others preferred quarkxpress, but it
> was wordstar and later wordperfect where most of the work i was doing
> took place . . . (these articles are handy so i'm posting them again):
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> https://winworldpc.com/product/wordstar/300 

<snip>

-- 
Cheers, Bev
   If you have one lawyer in town, he goes hungry.
   If you have two lawyers in town, they both get rich.

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#25501

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 08:40:55 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> A curious WP thing:  I temped for some title insurance people for a few
> weeks. They had a system where knowledgeable people would fill in
> (pencil) a template with codes indicating various descriptions etc. for
> the drones to type in.  After a while I (a drone) realized that the
> whole system was done with Word Perfect macro codes, a pretty slick
> application.

So they were reinventing the kind of thing that typesetting markup systems 
(troff/groff, TEX, SGML) have been doing for decades.

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#25508

On 8/13/24 2:51 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 08:40:55 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
> 
>> A curious WP thing:  I temped for some title insurance people for a few
>> weeks. They had a system where knowledgeable people would fill in
>> (pencil) a template with codes indicating various descriptions etc. for
>> the drones to type in.  After a while I (a drone) realized that the
>> whole system was done with Word Perfect macro codes, a pretty slick
>> application.
> 
> So they were reinventing the kind of thing that typesetting markup systems
> (troff/groff, TEX, SGML) have been doing for decades.

Possibly, but these were generating legal documents with a lot of 
legalisms of various sorts and combinations, not just making pretty 
documents. Same thing, I guess.  I once did some sort of document using 
something that required typing in codes by hand and found it extremely 
unpleasant.

-- 
Cheers, Bev
   I see your point, but I still think you're full of crap.  --Shea

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#25509

On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 21:47:14 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 8/13/24 2:51 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 08:40:55 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>> 
>>> A curious WP thing:  I temped for some title insurance people for a
>>> few weeks. They had a system where knowledgeable people would fill in
>>> (pencil) a template with codes indicating various descriptions etc.
>>> for the drones to type in.  After a while I (a drone) realized that
>>> the whole system was done with Word Perfect macro codes, a pretty
>>> slick application.
>> 
>> So they were reinventing the kind of thing that typesetting markup
>> systems (troff/groff, TEX, SGML) have been doing for decades.
> 
> Possibly, but these were generating legal documents with a lot of 
> legalisms of various sorts and combinations, not just making pretty 
> documents.

One of the groundbreaking features of troff was its ability to do line 
numbering -- rather important in legal documents such as patent 
applications.

That was likely crucial in getting the Bell Labs crew the funding from the 
higher-ups at AT&T to develop Unix.

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#25511

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 21:47:14 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> On 8/13/24 2:51 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 08:40:55 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> 
>>>> A curious WP thing:  I temped for some title insurance people for a
>>>> few weeks. They had a system where knowledgeable people would fill in
>>>> (pencil) a template with codes indicating various descriptions etc.
>>>> for the drones to type in.  After a while I (a drone) realized that
>>>> the whole system was done with Word Perfect macro codes, a pretty
>>>> slick application.
>>> 
>>> So they were reinventing the kind of thing that typesetting markup
>>> systems (troff/groff, TEX, SGML) have been doing for decades.
>> 
>> Possibly, but these were generating legal documents with a lot of 
>> legalisms of various sorts and combinations, not just making pretty 
>> documents.
>
> One of the groundbreaking features of troff was its ability to do line 
> numbering -- rather important in legal documents such as patent 
> applications.
>
> That was likely crucial in getting the Bell Labs crew the funding from the 
> higher-ups at AT&T to develop Unix.

Thanks for sharing that.  Can you give me a historical reference about
that?  I'd like to read it.  Thank you!

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#25513

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> 
>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 21:47:14 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/13/24 2:51 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 08:40:55 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> A curious WP thing:  I temped for some title insurance people for a
>>>>> few weeks. They had a system where knowledgeable people would fill in
>>>>> (pencil) a template with codes indicating various descriptions etc.
>>>>> for the drones to type in.  After a while I (a drone) realized that
>>>>> the whole system was done with Word Perfect macro codes, a pretty
>>>>> slick application.
>>>> 
>>>> So they were reinventing the kind of thing that typesetting markup
>>>> systems (troff/groff, TEX, SGML) have been doing for decades.
>>> 
>>> Possibly, but these were generating legal documents with a lot of 
>>> legalisms of various sorts and combinations, not just making pretty 
>>> documents.
>>
>> One of the groundbreaking features of troff was its ability to do line 
>> numbering -- rather important in legal documents such as patent 
>> applications.
>>
>> That was likely crucial in getting the Bell Labs crew the funding from the 
>> higher-ups at AT&T to develop Unix.
> 
> Thanks for sharing that.  Can you give me a historical reference about
> that?  I'd like to read it.  Thank you!

Search for "patent" in these two pages, you'll get some info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-strange-birth-and-long-life-of-unix

Feel free to also read the remainder of each if you so choose.

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#25498

On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 08:24:46 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> I didn't know that GEM was a Kildall thing.  Novell seemed to be as good
> at killing things as Microsoft is at stealing them.

Part of the blame has to go to Apple. Back then, they were very jealous of 
other companies trying to do GUIs that looked even remotely like the 
Macintosh in any way, shape or form. They sic’d their lawyers onto DR 
because GEM had, of all things, pull-down menus.

Finally Kildall was able to appease the Apple hounds by having the menus 
simply fall down when you moused over them.

(Yeah, I was an Apple Mac fan(atic) back then.)

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