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Groups > comp.misc > #26457 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-02-16 16:55 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-02-26 21:21 -0300 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 290 — 23 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.misc
Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> - 2025-02-16 16:55 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-16 21:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 23:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 11:40 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 09:26 -0800
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 22:42 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-17 22:23 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:20 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-19 07:32 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-02-18 23:47 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-19 09:42 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-06 07:10 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:44 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-20 08:23 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:55 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 17:59 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:01 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 22:51 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:01 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:29 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 22:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 05:19 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:28 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 10:55 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:34 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 23:06 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:10 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 10:08 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 23:12 +0100
OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:31 -0300
Re: OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:52 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-27 21:40 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-01 11:48 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 06:40 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-05 13:39 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-05 22:12 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 17:54 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:41 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 23:19 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:16 +0100
education Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-06 07:55 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 22:00 -0300
Re: education Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-08 03:47 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 18:27 -0300
Re: education Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-09 02:08 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 02:58 -0300
Re: education Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-10 18:38 +0000
Re: education cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 19:13 +0000
Re: education Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:30 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 11:17 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-25 19:12 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 02:08 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2025-02-26 09:06 -0600
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-02-26 18:09 -0400
the command line is language (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:46 -0300
Re: the command line is language (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-02-27 03:31 -0400
Re: the command line is language Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:10 -0300
Re: the command line is language D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:41 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:47 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:34 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:38 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 22:34 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 18:50 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:11 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:18 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 17:04 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 18:53 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-28 21:41 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 22:03 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:29 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:16 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 12:36 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 17:07 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 19:05 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 15:06 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-01 11:47 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:31 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:52 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:51 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-01 17:15 -0400
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-02 12:34 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-02-26 12:29 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:34 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 22:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000
more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:38 -0300
Re: more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 19:47 -0500
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:55 -0300
Re: more on broken schools kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 19:00 -0500
OT: a personal note to Stefan Ram (Was: Re: more on broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 09:31 -0300
Re: more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:03 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:30 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:43 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:33 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:30 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 03:00 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-10 10:50 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:46 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 23:05 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 11:31 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-14 23:46 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-16 22:43 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-17 23:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 22:50 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 17:06 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:28 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:12 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 14:08 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:32 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 22:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:34 +0100
fdm, paredit and systemd (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 13:18 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:53 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:23 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:31 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 21:10 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 00:09 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:41 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:32 +0100
UNIX systems (Was: Re: fdm, paredit and systemd) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 03:10 -0300
Re: UNIX systems (Was: Re: fdm, paredit and systemd) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-10 10:54 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 09:08 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 23:09 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-13 18:17 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-16 00:03 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-16 22:41 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 10:50 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 16:26 -0300
Re: UNIX systems Matto Fransen <mattof@sdf.org> - 2025-03-21 19:53 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-24 00:11 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-21 23:37 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-24 00:34 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-25 21:49 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-26 23:24 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-29 22:31 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:40 -0300
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-22 10:11 -0300
Re: UNIX systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-25 17:40 -0400
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-25 23:04 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Charles Dagny <1800@DEV.NULL> - 2025-03-28 21:41 -0300
Re: UNIX systems onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2025-03-10 15:06 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-11 11:58 -0300
Re: UNIX systems yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-11 15:49 +0042
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 15:25 +0000
Re: UNIX systems onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2025-03-11 16:24 +0000
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 17:30 +0000
Re: UNIX systems candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-12 22:30 +0000
Re: UNIX systems yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-12 23:23 +0042
Re: UNIX systems candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-13 20:40 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-13 18:04 -0300
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-13 21:26 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:23 -0300
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-13 01:24 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-12 01:38 -0300
Re: UNIX systems snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-12 14:03 +0000
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-12 22:19 +0100
Re: UNIX systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-11 19:09 -0400
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-04 02:44 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-03-04 17:50 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-19 09:40 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-20 08:29 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:56 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:45 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:01 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:02 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:44 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:01 +0100
broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:46 -0300
Re: broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:18 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 22:34 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:38 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 15:45 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 14:05 +0100
Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 13:15 +0000
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:10 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:49 -0300
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 07:41 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 19:52 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 21:41 -0300
Re: broken schools yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-08 02:59 +0042
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 00:14 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 22:26 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 22:52 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:39 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 22:59 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:10 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-15 23:58 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-17 00:02 -0300
Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-18 03:00 +0000
Re: broken schools Eva Lu <evalu@tor.soy> - 2025-03-18 21:20 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 11:17 +0100
OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-19 13:51 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-19 23:20 +0100
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 11:52 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-23 00:31 +0100
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:50 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-01 16:43 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-04 11:20 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-06 23:17 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-10 15:19 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-12 21:05 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-13 13:10 -0300
lifestyles Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:20 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:40 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:57 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-17 18:30 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 22:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 00:08 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-18 00:30 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:52 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-20 01:09 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:27 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-20 21:51 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:07 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:35 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:31 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:06 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:01 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 13:48 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:56 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:22 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 14:05 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:03 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:14 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:47 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-20 22:12 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:15 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:04 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:21 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 22:46 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 10:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2025-02-25 14:20 +0300
small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 15:20 -0300
Re: small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:57 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:20 -0300
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:49 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-02-26 13:50 +0042
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:59 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:13 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:41 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:33 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:12 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:03 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:51 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-20 21:49 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:22 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-22 17:09 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-23 00:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:49 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:05 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:24 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:05 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:56 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:51 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:10 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 14:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:28 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 21:58 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:26 +0100
OT: personal stories (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 11:58 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:21 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:04 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:21 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:49 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-08 00:43 +0042
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:46 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:45 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:37 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:30 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2025-02-25 13:17 -0600
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:21 -0300
Page 2 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 … 15 Next page →
| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 22:01 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87tt8odsb7.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26536 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >> Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> writes: >> >>> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >>> >>>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2025, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>>> >>>>> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote: >>>>>> In comp.misc, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> Indeed, so long as you block all FB's scripts and images on >>>>>>> otherwise unrelated websites. Although I don't tend to make close >>>>>>> friends so I don't need to worry about controlling their FB usage. >>>>>> >>>>>> Doesn't stop people from posting about you on FB. (Or worse, posting >>>>>> photos of you on there.) >>>>> >>>>> What I don't tell, they can't post, and the same with what they >>>>> don't photograph. Although I guess that does leave a bit of an >>>>> information vacuum there which some nutcase could exploit to make >>>>> up missing personal info/photos on me if they so desired. >>>>> >>>>>>> Quite mysteriously, all sorts of otherwise respectable open-source >>>>>>> software developers are happy to use GitHub even though it's owned >>>>>>> by M$. So even having ditched their software long ago, M$ are now >>>>>>> very hard to avoid online if, ironically, you want to use, and >>>>>>> especially work on, open-source software. I find that truely >>>>>>> unfathomable, but others barely seem to see my problem with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many, I suspect, started using Github before Microsoft bought them in >>>>>> 2018. >>>>> >>>>> For software projects I use, many more seem to have moved to there >>>>> since 2018 than before. You'd think they like the M$ acquisition. >>>>> Occasionally I object and am ignored. >>>> >>>> You have been heard! I will not be hosting my stuff on github. On the >>>> other hand, I have nothing interesting to host, so perhaps a moot >>>> point. ;) My home made scripts and little utilities live on my laptop >>>> and sometimes on my server, and are shared upon request. >>> >>> I think most little scripts should be documented (with a manual) and put >>> online. It will make it easier for others to use and it will certainly >>> encourage others to improve it and share the improvement. So you could >>> see your little script turn into a nice polished program simply because >>> someone saw the idea and knew what to do to make it a lot better. Could >>> be a good source of joy. >>> >>> One time I wrote a function---just a function---and added to some >>> archive online. This was a pretty niche programming language. Years >>> later, I looked it up---I was still called the author of the function, >>> but the code was completely rewritten, with much more expertise >>> knowledge. I thought it was ironic that my name was still there. We >>> value the pioneer perhaps too much. >>> >>>>>> Lately I've been seeing people advocating for a switch to >>>>>> Codeberg. >>>>> >>>>> I don't know about Codeberg, but there have been lots of >>>>> alternatives all along. Tons of projects switched from SourceForge >>>>> to GitHub. Many projects have their own websites too, so why not >>>>> self-host? GitHub do offer a lot of extra features for free, but >>>>> that's dealing with the devil IMHO. Especially as the more tied in >>>>> to GitHub-specific systems a project gets, the less practical it is >>>>> to move away if M$ get more greedy later on. >>>> >>>> I have heard about gitea. It seems as if it allows you to setup >>>> graphical git hosting yourself. I personally use a fossil repository >>>> accessible only over ssh. I don't use any of the wiki/ticket/chat >>>> functionality included in it. >>> >>> There's Forgejo, too. It looks very good. Like in Github, you can >>> disable all such modules---wiki, ticket system et cetera. >> >> Sorry---you'd have to switch to git. I don't think Gitea or Forgejo >> work with fossil. But fossil has its own web server, so you'd be fine >> with it, too. > > This is the truth. I'm a contrarian kind of guy, so when the world > goes git, I go fossil. ;) Jokes aside, I like the concept of one > binary and how it works for my own personal use case. I went fossil when I had to teach a class. I thought git was more complicated than fossil. But it turns out that fossil was seen as crazily complicated by nearly all students (anyway). I think fossil is just fine, though I confess I prefer the file system over a database.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 10:29 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1b411147-a833-8c73-2d85-e5c749fc23b9@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26550 |
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> This is the truth. I'm a contrarian kind of guy, so when the world >> goes git, I go fossil. ;) Jokes aside, I like the concept of one >> binary and how it works for my own personal use case. > > I went fossil when I had to teach a class. I thought git was more > complicated than fossil. But it turns out that fossil was seen as > crazily complicated by nearly all students (anyway). I think fossil is > just fine, though I confess I prefer the file system over a database. This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy complicated compared with git? I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day, regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing rebasing and huge software projects).
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-23 22:55 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87ikp03y4r.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26565 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >>> This is the truth. I'm a contrarian kind of guy, so when the world >>> goes git, I go fossil. ;) Jokes aside, I like the concept of one >>> binary and how it works for my own personal use case. >> >> I went fossil when I had to teach a class. I thought git was more >> complicated than fossil. But it turns out that fossil was seen as >> crazily complicated by nearly all students (anyway). I think fossil is >> just fine, though I confess I prefer the file system over a database. > > This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy > complicated compared with git? Not compared to git. They did not get to see git. They just hated fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course altogether. Very likely they knew that other courses would give them the same credits and they could try it afresh on the next semester. I don't have much information. The command line seemed an awful experience to them. I suspect that they thought that the command line was archaic means of system interface and that perhaps it was just a teacher idiosyncrasy. This experience gave me the following feeling---they ask for real-world, pratical experience, but they're not up to an introduction to the tools used in the real-world. > I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day, > regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple > commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing > rebasing and huge software projects). I think it boils down to a lot more because these are compouter users that even ``environment variable'' is a never-seen concept. I watched them opening a c:\> prompt on their Windows system, slowlying typing up their very long path to their project, say, and then doing it again on the next class---paths with spaces and other complicated symbols.
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 05:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vpgvgu$turg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26619 |
Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > >> On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> >>>> This is the truth. I'm a contrarian kind of guy, so when the world >>>> goes git, I go fossil. ;) Jokes aside, I like the concept of one >>>> binary and how it works for my own personal use case. >>> >>> I went fossil when I had to teach a class. I thought git was more >>> complicated than fossil. But it turns out that fossil was seen as >>> crazily complicated by nearly all students (anyway). I think fossil is >>> just fine, though I confess I prefer the file system over a database. >> >> This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy >> complicated compared with git? > > Not compared to git. They did not get to see git. They just hated > fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course altogether. > Very likely they knew that other courses would give them the same > credits and they could try it afresh on the next semester. > > I don't have much information. The command line seemed an awful > experience to them. I suspect that they thought that the command line > was archaic means of system interface and that perhaps it was just a > teacher idiosyncrasy. For some (most? all?) they likely had only ever used a "touch/feely" interface (i.e., phone) and so, yes, they were very ill equiped to even comprehend a command line, much less be productive in one. > This experience gave me the following feeling---they ask for real-world, > pratical experience, but they're not up to an introduction to the tools > used in the real-world. They likely have never been out of their smartphone protected bubble. >> I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day, >> regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple >> commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing >> rebasing and huge software projects). > > I think it boils down to a lot more because these are compouter users > that even ``environment variable'' is a never-seen concept. I watched > them opening a c:\> prompt on their Windows system, slowlying typing up > their very long path to their project, say, and then doing it again on > the next class---paths with spaces and other complicated symbols. Which is (almost) the same they would do using a GUI or their phone. Wherever the file manager defaults, they then meticiously "step" their way over to where they want to be. The concept of saving a 'bookmark' (of sorts) to "go directly there" is likely foreign to them. In fact, they sound like the types who open the google search page, then type a URL into the google search box, to go to that URL.
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 13:28 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87cyf7z4qd.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26626 |
Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes: > Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: >> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >> >>> On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >>> >>>>> This is the truth. I'm a contrarian kind of guy, so when the world >>>>> goes git, I go fossil. ;) Jokes aside, I like the concept of one >>>>> binary and how it works for my own personal use case. >>>> >>>> I went fossil when I had to teach a class. I thought git was more >>>> complicated than fossil. But it turns out that fossil was seen as >>>> crazily complicated by nearly all students (anyway). I think fossil is >>>> just fine, though I confess I prefer the file system over a database. >>> >>> This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy >>> complicated compared with git? >> >> Not compared to git. They did not get to see git. They just hated >> fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course altogether. >> Very likely they knew that other courses would give them the same >> credits and they could try it afresh on the next semester. >> >> I don't have much information. The command line seemed an awful >> experience to them. I suspect that they thought that the command line >> was archaic means of system interface and that perhaps it was just a >> teacher idiosyncrasy. > > For some (most? all?) they likely had only ever used a "touch/feely" > interface (i.e., phone) and so, yes, they were very ill equiped to even > comprehend a command line, much less be productive in one. > >> This experience gave me the following feeling---they ask for real-world, >> pratical experience, but they're not up to an introduction to the tools >> used in the real-world. > > They likely have never been out of their smartphone protected bubble. > >>> I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day, >>> regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple >>> commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing >>> rebasing and huge software projects). >> >> I think it boils down to a lot more because these are compouter users >> that even ``environment variable'' is a never-seen concept. I watched >> them opening a c:\> prompt on their Windows system, slowlying typing up >> their very long path to their project, say, and then doing it again on >> the next class---paths with spaces and other complicated symbols. > > Which is (almost) the same they would do using a GUI or their phone. > Wherever the file manager defaults, they then meticiously "step" their > way over to where they want to be. The concept of saving a 'bookmark' > (of sorts) to "go directly there" is likely foreign to them. In fact, > they sound like the types who open the google search page, then type a > URL into the google search box, to go to that URL. I think you comprehend me pretty well. :)
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 10:55 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <a1b77153-bb7e-a960-6efe-5b0813d0d4e5@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26619 |
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy >> complicated compared with git? > > Not compared to git. They did not get to see git. They just hated > fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course altogether. > Very likely they knew that other courses would give them the same > credits and they could try it afresh on the next semester. Ahh, got it! Yes, sadly this happens to me as well. At the slightest hint of difficulty or effort, about 20% of the class riots, complains to the school that the teacher is evil, that the difficulty level should be lowered etc. They do not realize, that the only ones they are cheating by doing that are themselves. The sad thing is that business owners (including myself) have noted a dramatic drop in skill from graduates over the past 3-4 years. One reason is that the government has changed the funding of the schools, rewarding schools that pass all students. So of course, the schools pass all students, since it means more money for them (they are paid by the government upon graduation) and you get the situation where awful students graduate, and now, where companies no longer hire them. Usually in order to buck the trend somewhat, I make my first course more difficult in order to get rid of the unmotivated ones. If I don't have the first course of the semester, the following 1-2 are pure hell, since the bad ones remain and complain about everything, but after 1-2 semesters they usually quit. It is just sad that I could not make them realize this after 3 weeks, and instead they waste 1-2 semesters. But such is life. > I don't have much information. The command line seemed an awful > experience to them. I suspect that they thought that the command line > was archaic means of system interface and that perhaps it was just a > teacher idiosyncrasy. > > This experience gave me the following feeling---they ask for real-world, > pratical experience, but they're not up to an introduction to the tools > used in the real-world. True. But from time to time it is fun to see when they really "get" the terminal. It's such an eye opening experience for them, and they, themselves become completely amazed at what they can do with a computer all of a sudden! One guy told me he had no idea and it was amazing the day he understood the terminal concept. He went on to become a rock star! Those students are what makes it worth it for me. >> I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day, >> regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple >> commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing >> rebasing and huge software projects). > > I think it boils down to a lot more because these are compouter users > that even ``environment variable'' is a never-seen concept. I watched > them opening a c:\> prompt on their Windows system, slowlying typing up > their very long path to their project, say, and then doing it again on > the next class---paths with spaces and other complicated symbols. Haha, yes... I think I have to tell them about ls, cd, pwd etc. about 30-40 times before they finally start to remember what it is. ;)
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 13:34 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <8734g3z4hd.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26634 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Sun, 23 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >>> This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy >>> complicated compared with git? >> >> Not compared to git. They did not get to see git. They just hated >> fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course altogether. >> Very likely they knew that other courses would give them the same >> credits and they could try it afresh on the next semester. > > Ahh, got it! Yes, sadly this happens to me as well. At the slightest hint of > difficulty or effort, about 20% of the class riots, complains to the school that > the teacher is evil, that the difficulty level should be lowered etc. They do > not realize, that the only ones they are cheating by doing that are themselves. > The sad thing is that business owners (including myself) have noted a dramatic > drop in skill from graduates over the past 3-4 years. One reason is that the > government has changed the funding of the schools, rewarding schools that pass > all students. So of course, the schools pass all students, since it means more > money for them (they are paid by the government upon graduation) and you get the > situation where awful students graduate, and now, where companies no longer hire > them. > > Usually in order to buck the trend somewhat, I make my first course more > difficult in order to get rid of the unmotivated ones. If I don't have the first > course of the semester, the following 1-2 are pure hell, since the bad ones > remain and complain about everything, but after 1-2 semesters they usually quit. > It is just sad that I could not make them realize this after 3 weeks, and > instead they waste 1-2 semesters. But such is life. Such is life. :) >>> I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day, >>> regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple >>> commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing >>> rebasing and huge software projects). >> >> I think it boils down to a lot more because these are compouter users >> that even ``environment variable'' is a never-seen concept. I watched >> them opening a c:\> prompt on their Windows system, slowlying typing up >> their very long path to their project, say, and then doing it again on >> the next class---paths with spaces and other complicated symbols. > > Haha, yes... I think I have to tell them about ls, cd, pwd etc. about 30-40 > times before they finally start to remember what it is. ;) Oh, yes, memory is another thing I notice. Not only students, but teachers, too; I'm known as having a superb memory or something. Truth is, though, it's their memory that is not doing very well.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 23:15 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <3819981d-fafa-1973-c572-d251da02ab26@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26641 |
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > >> On Sun, 23 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> >>>> This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy >>>> complicated compared with git? >>> >>> Not compared to git. They did not get to see git. They just hated >>> fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course altogether. >>> Very likely they knew that other courses would give them the same >>> credits and they could try it afresh on the next semester. >> >> Ahh, got it! Yes, sadly this happens to me as well. At the slightest hint of >> difficulty or effort, about 20% of the class riots, complains to the school that >> the teacher is evil, that the difficulty level should be lowered etc. They do >> not realize, that the only ones they are cheating by doing that are themselves. >> The sad thing is that business owners (including myself) have noted a dramatic >> drop in skill from graduates over the past 3-4 years. One reason is that the >> government has changed the funding of the schools, rewarding schools that pass >> all students. So of course, the schools pass all students, since it means more >> money for them (they are paid by the government upon graduation) and you get the >> situation where awful students graduate, and now, where companies no longer hire >> them. >> >> Usually in order to buck the trend somewhat, I make my first course more >> difficult in order to get rid of the unmotivated ones. If I don't have the first >> course of the semester, the following 1-2 are pure hell, since the bad ones >> remain and complain about everything, but after 1-2 semesters they usually quit. >> It is just sad that I could not make them realize this after 3 weeks, and >> instead they waste 1-2 semesters. But such is life. > > Such is life. :) > >>>> I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day, >>>> regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple >>>> commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing >>>> rebasing and huge software projects). >>> >>> I think it boils down to a lot more because these are compouter users >>> that even ``environment variable'' is a never-seen concept. I watched >>> them opening a c:\> prompt on their Windows system, slowlying typing up >>> their very long path to their project, say, and then doing it again on >>> the next class---paths with spaces and other complicated symbols. >> >> Haha, yes... I think I have to tell them about ls, cd, pwd etc. about 30-40 >> times before they finally start to remember what it is. ;) > > Oh, yes, memory is another thing I notice. Not only students, but > teachers, too; I'm known as having a superb memory or something. Truth > is, though, it's their memory that is not doing very well. I think smartphones and google are a huge part of the problem. I do not have a smartphone, so I have to remember things like codes, shopping lists, directions, and I am convinced it helps my memory somewhat. The young ones, just google everything, so they don't exercise their memory. For instance, one of the students the other day was amazed at how I could live without google maps, and wondered how I do it. My answer, I check where I want to go, before I leave home. Most of the time I remember it. If I don't know exactly where to go, I ask someone in the street, or ask a hotel. The hotels are nice, because often they give you a map. For long trips I might print out the map on a piece of paper. This has the advantage of having zero value, so I never have to worry about dropping it, forgetting it or someone stealing it. The students were chocked! ;)
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 23:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vpiu26$1g0vt$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26648 |
D <nospam@example.net> wrote: > On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> Oh, yes, memory is another thing I notice. Not only students, but >> teachers, too; I'm known as having a superb memory or something. >> Truth is, though, it's their memory that is not doing very well. > > I think smartphones and google are a huge part of the problem. I do > not have a smartphone, so I have to remember things like codes, > shopping lists, directions, and I am convinced it helps my memory > somewhat. > > The young ones, just google everything, so they don't exercise their > memory. There have been studies to the effect that yes, using 'google' or 'the phone' to remember everything does indeed erode the ability to actually 'remember' without said crutches. > For instance, one of the students the other day was amazed at how I > could live without google maps, and wondered how I do it. > > My answer, I check where I want to go, before I leave home. Most of > the time I remember it. If I don't know exactly where to go, I ask > someone in the street, or ask a hotel. The hotels are nice, because > often they give you a map. For long trips I might print out the map > on a piece of paper. This has the advantage of having zero value, so > I never have to worry about dropping it, forgetting it or someone > stealing it. > > The students were chocked! ;) I saw a news report once (credibility slightly suspect) which posited that there were even some of the "youngins" that use "gps phone nav" for navigating routes they travel frequently, such that without the "nav tool" they are unable to recall how to get "there" from "here" even though they have made the exact same trip 200 prior times. I often 'frustrate' my wife by going off the beaten path (major roads) onto back roads (I'll admit, sometimes done specifically for the value of the 'frustration' part) to get "there" from "here" with no GPS nav or pre-planning at all and in almost all instances I get "there" even though the entire route is brand new for me. Those students that rely on gmaps would be even more shocked with one of those 'side trips'.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-25 11:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <7270eaa2-4a1b-e04a-2044-17656d06173d@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26654 |
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Rich wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> wrote: >> On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >>> Oh, yes, memory is another thing I notice. Not only students, but >>> teachers, too; I'm known as having a superb memory or something. >>> Truth is, though, it's their memory that is not doing very well. >> >> I think smartphones and google are a huge part of the problem. I do >> not have a smartphone, so I have to remember things like codes, >> shopping lists, directions, and I am convinced it helps my memory >> somewhat. >> >> The young ones, just google everything, so they don't exercise their >> memory. > > There have been studies to the effect that yes, using 'google' or 'the > phone' to remember everything does indeed erode the ability to actually > 'remember' without said crutches. Interesting! That would confirm my subjective feeling. >> For instance, one of the students the other day was amazed at how I >> could live without google maps, and wondered how I do it. >> >> My answer, I check where I want to go, before I leave home. Most of >> the time I remember it. If I don't know exactly where to go, I ask >> someone in the street, or ask a hotel. The hotels are nice, because >> often they give you a map. For long trips I might print out the map >> on a piece of paper. This has the advantage of having zero value, so >> I never have to worry about dropping it, forgetting it or someone >> stealing it. >> >> The students were chocked! ;) > > I saw a news report once (credibility slightly suspect) which posited > that there were even some of the "youngins" that use "gps phone nav" > for navigating routes they travel frequently, such that without the > "nav tool" they are unable to recall how to get "there" from "here" > even though they have made the exact same trip 200 prior times. Wow! I find that hard to believe. If true, we are close to the end of our civilization! =/ > I often 'frustrate' my wife by going off the beaten path (major roads) > onto back roads (I'll admit, sometimes done specifically for the value > of the 'frustration' part) to get "there" from "here" with no GPS nav > or pre-planning at all and in almost all instances I get "there" even > though the entire route is brand new for me. This is excellent! Always going the same way, or driving the same route gets very boring after a while. Sometimes when I walk a new path, I discover a new store I didn't know existed. > Those students that rely on gmaps would be even more shocked with one > of those 'side trips'. You bet!
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-25 10:08 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87cyf6rx2o.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26666 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Rich wrote: [...] >> I often 'frustrate' my wife by going off the beaten path (major roads) >> onto back roads (I'll admit, sometimes done specifically for the value >> of the 'frustration' part) to get "there" from "here" with no GPS nav >> or pre-planning at all and in almost all instances I get "there" even >> though the entire route is brand new for me. > > This is excellent! Always going the same way, or driving the same route gets > very boring after a while. Sometimes when I walk a new path, I discover a new > store I didn't know existed. That really happens when you walk instead of driving. Not to mention that if you're walking, it's okay to stop by at a store. If you're driving, it's not okay because (at least where I live), it's never easy to find a parking place. And you might not want to interrupt the song that's playing or get out of the air conditioning.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-25 23:12 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <3d28e9f9-682d-6ece-95ee-209467457a38@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26674 |
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > >> On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Rich wrote: > > [...] > >>> I often 'frustrate' my wife by going off the beaten path (major roads) >>> onto back roads (I'll admit, sometimes done specifically for the value >>> of the 'frustration' part) to get "there" from "here" with no GPS nav >>> or pre-planning at all and in almost all instances I get "there" even >>> though the entire route is brand new for me. >> >> This is excellent! Always going the same way, or driving the same route gets >> very boring after a while. Sometimes when I walk a new path, I discover a new >> store I didn't know existed. > > That really happens when you walk instead of driving. Not to mention > that if you're walking, it's okay to stop by at a store. If you're > driving, it's not okay because (at least where I live), it's never easy > to find a parking place. And you might not want to interrupt the song > that's playing or get out of the air conditioning. > This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of exercise I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit meditative if you get into it.
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 21:31 -0300 |
| Subject | OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) |
| Message-ID | <87seo0jkip.fsf_-_@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26692 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Tue, 25 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >> >>> On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Rich wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>>> I often 'frustrate' my wife by going off the beaten path (major roads) >>>> onto back roads (I'll admit, sometimes done specifically for the value >>>> of the 'frustration' part) to get "there" from "here" with no GPS nav >>>> or pre-planning at all and in almost all instances I get "there" even >>>> though the entire route is brand new for me. >>> >>> This is excellent! Always going the same way, or driving the same route gets >>> very boring after a while. Sometimes when I walk a new path, I discover a new >>> store I didn't know existed. >> >> That really happens when you walk instead of driving. Not to mention >> that if you're walking, it's okay to stop by at a store. If you're >> driving, it's not okay because (at least where I live), it's never easy >> to find a parking place. And you might not want to interrupt the song >> that's playing or get out of the air conditioning. >> > > This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of > exercise I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit > meditative if you get into it. I agree. :) What I often do at the beach is actually just walk it end to end. The beach I always go to has about 1 km in length. But lately I've been trying to swim in the ocean as well. I've taken swimming classes for various years and I didn't have the energy to continue when I joined graduate school. Now I'm out and I have been trying to continue, but after two months swimming in a gym, I decided to quit it and move to the beach. I'm happy to announce that lately the water has been crystalline around here. The news called it Caribbean today. I have been using some fins to give me some ``self confidence''. It's fairly scary to swim the beach end to end. You need to distance yourself from the shore to stay a bit away from the waves and even other people. And you can barely see much while swimming: even with crystalline water, visility is still very limited. But it's really more pleasurable to be at the beach than at the gym. Sure, when the water gets pretty dark, I will probably not swim. I hope I'm lucky enough so that such conditions don't last too long when they arrive.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-27 14:52 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) |
| Message-ID | <18f161d1-50cc-6024-957b-16073c71f465@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26734 |
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > >> On Tue, 25 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> >>> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >>> >>>> On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Rich wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>> I often 'frustrate' my wife by going off the beaten path (major roads) >>>>> onto back roads (I'll admit, sometimes done specifically for the value >>>>> of the 'frustration' part) to get "there" from "here" with no GPS nav >>>>> or pre-planning at all and in almost all instances I get "there" even >>>>> though the entire route is brand new for me. >>>> >>>> This is excellent! Always going the same way, or driving the same route gets >>>> very boring after a while. Sometimes when I walk a new path, I discover a new >>>> store I didn't know existed. >>> >>> That really happens when you walk instead of driving. Not to mention >>> that if you're walking, it's okay to stop by at a store. If you're >>> driving, it's not okay because (at least where I live), it's never easy >>> to find a parking place. And you might not want to interrupt the song >>> that's playing or get out of the air conditioning. >>> >> >> This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of >> exercise I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit >> meditative if you get into it. > > I agree. :) What I often do at the beach is actually just walk it end > to end. The beach I always go to has about 1 km in length. But lately That's wonderful! > I've been trying to swim in the ocean as well. I've taken swimming > classes for various years and I didn't have the energy to continue when > I joined graduate school. Now I'm out and I have been trying to > continue, but after two months swimming in a gym, I decided to quit it > and move to the beach. I'm happy to announce that lately the water has > been crystalline around here. The news called it Caribbean today. That's good exercise. I don't like gyms or swimming pools, but if I had the ocean nearby, at a decent temperature, I think I might enjoy swimming! > I have been using some fins to give me some ``self confidence''. It's > fairly scary to swim the beach end to end. You need to distance > yourself from the shore to stay a bit away from the waves and even other > people. And you can barely see much while swimming: even with > crystalline water, visility is still very limited. Reminds me of the last time I went swimming in spain, and the waves were huge! You really had to time getting into the water or else risk getting knocked over. > But it's really more pleasurable to be at the beach than at the gym. > Sure, when the water gets pretty dark, I will probably not swim. I hope > I'm lucky enough so that such conditions don't last too long when they > arrive. >
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| From | candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-27 21:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnvs1mfu.6dhd.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid> |
| In reply to | #26692 |
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 22:12 this Tuesday (GMT): > > > On Tue, 25 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >> >>> On Mon, 24 Feb 2025, Rich wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>>> I often 'frustrate' my wife by going off the beaten path (major roads) >>>> onto back roads (I'll admit, sometimes done specifically for the value >>>> of the 'frustration' part) to get "there" from "here" with no GPS nav >>>> or pre-planning at all and in almost all instances I get "there" even >>>> though the entire route is brand new for me. >>> >>> This is excellent! Always going the same way, or driving the same route gets >>> very boring after a while. Sometimes when I walk a new path, I discover a new >>> store I didn't know existed. >> >> That really happens when you walk instead of driving. Not to mention >> that if you're walking, it's okay to stop by at a store. If you're >> driving, it's not okay because (at least where I live), it's never easy >> to find a parking place. And you might not want to interrupt the song >> that's playing or get out of the air conditioning. >> And paid parking, sometimes! > This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of exercise > I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit meditative if > you get into it. I enjoy walking, but I rarely get to actually do it.. -- user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-01 11:48 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <09aefdc0-e931-7d4b-e2fc-7385e5129904@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26776 |
On Thu, 27 Feb 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: >> This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of exercise >> I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit meditative if >> you get into it. > > > I enjoy walking, but I rarely get to actually do it.. Why not?
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| From | candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-05 06:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnvsfs93.so99.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid> |
| In reply to | #26795 |
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 10:48 this Saturday (GMT): > > > On Thu, 27 Feb 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: > >>> This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of exercise >>> I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit meditative if >>> you get into it. >> >> >> I enjoy walking, but I rarely get to actually do it.. > > Why not? Suburban hell. -- user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-05 13:39 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <0953e2a7-6a95-797d-4a1b-9797a3e8af7f@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26813 |
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 10:48 this Saturday (GMT): >> >> >> On Thu, 27 Feb 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: >> >>>> This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of exercise >>>> I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit meditative if >>>> you get into it. >>> >>> >>> I enjoy walking, but I rarely get to actually do it.. >> >> Why not? > > > Suburban hell. This is very sad. Maybe you can move? Or drive to a close by park?
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| From | candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnvshast.2ecok.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid> |
| In reply to | #26814 |
D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 12:39 this Wednesday (GMT): > > > On Wed, 5 Mar 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: > >> D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 10:48 this Saturday (GMT): >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: >>> >>>>> This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of exercise >>>>> I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit meditative if >>>>> you get into it. >>>> >>>> >>>> I enjoy walking, but I rarely get to actually do it.. >>> >>> Why not? >> >> >> Suburban hell. > > This is very sad. Maybe you can move? Or drive to a close by park? Yeah I could see if theres some nearby -- user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-05 22:12 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1c0b7702-82f2-9db8-f41f-2c2975156c5f@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26816 |
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 12:39 this Wednesday (GMT): >> >> >> On Wed, 5 Mar 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: >> >>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote at 10:48 this Saturday (GMT): >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2025, candycanearter07 wrote: >>>> >>>>>> This is the truth! I like walking. It is one of the few forms of exercise >>>>>> I engage in. =) It is also relaxing and can almost be a bit meditative if >>>>>> you get into it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I enjoy walking, but I rarely get to actually do it.. >>>> >>>> Why not? >>> >>> >>> Suburban hell. >> >> This is very sad. Maybe you can move? Or drive to a close by park? > > > Yeah I could see if theres some nearby > I will hope that your search will be successful! =)
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