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Groups > comp.misc > #26457 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-02-16 16:55 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-02-26 21:21 -0300 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 290 — 23 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.misc
Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> - 2025-02-16 16:55 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-16 21:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 23:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 11:40 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2025-02-17 09:26 -0800
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 22:42 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-17 22:23 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:20 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-19 07:32 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-02-18 23:47 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-19 09:42 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-06 07:10 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:44 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-20 08:23 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:55 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 17:59 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:01 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 22:51 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:01 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:29 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 22:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 05:19 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:28 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 10:55 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:34 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 23:06 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:10 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 10:08 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 23:12 +0100
OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:31 -0300
Re: OT: walking and exercising (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:52 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-02-27 21:40 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-01 11:48 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 06:40 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-05 13:39 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-05 22:12 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 17:54 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:41 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-24 23:19 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:16 +0100
education Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-06 07:55 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 22:00 -0300
Re: education Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-08 03:47 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 18:27 -0300
Re: education Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-09 02:08 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 02:58 -0300
Re: education Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-10 18:38 +0000
Re: education cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 19:13 +0000
Re: education Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:30 +0000
Re: education Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 11:17 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-25 19:12 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 02:08 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2025-02-26 09:06 -0600
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-02-26 18:09 -0400
the command line is language (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:46 -0300
Re: the command line is language (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-02-27 03:31 -0400
Re: the command line is language Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:10 -0300
Re: the command line is language D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:41 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:47 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:34 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:38 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 22:34 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 18:50 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:11 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:18 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 17:04 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 18:53 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-28 21:41 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 22:03 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 03:29 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:16 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 12:36 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:55 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-27 17:07 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 19:05 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 15:06 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-01 11:47 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:31 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:52 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:15 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-01 16:51 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-01 17:15 -0400
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-02 12:34 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-02-26 12:29 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 16:34 -0500
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 22:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0000
more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:38 -0300
Re: more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-26 19:47 -0500
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 08:55 -0300
Re: more on broken schools kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-27 19:00 -0500
OT: a personal note to Stefan Ram (Was: Re: more on broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 09:31 -0300
Re: more on broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:03 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:30 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:43 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:33 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:30 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 03:00 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-10 10:50 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:46 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 23:05 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 11:31 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-14 23:46 +0100
Re: more on broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-16 22:43 -0300
Re: more on broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-17 23:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 22:50 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 17:06 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:28 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:12 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 14:08 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:32 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 22:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:34 +0100
fdm, paredit and systemd (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 13:18 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:53 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:23 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:31 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 21:10 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 00:09 +0100
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:41 -0300
Re: fdm, paredit and systemd D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:32 +0100
UNIX systems (Was: Re: fdm, paredit and systemd) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 03:10 -0300
Re: UNIX systems (Was: Re: fdm, paredit and systemd) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-10 10:54 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 09:08 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 23:09 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-13 18:17 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-16 00:03 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-16 22:41 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 10:50 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 16:26 -0300
Re: UNIX systems Matto Fransen <mattof@sdf.org> - 2025-03-21 19:53 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-24 00:11 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-21 23:37 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-24 00:34 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-25 21:49 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-26 23:24 -0300
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-29 22:31 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:40 -0300
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-22 10:11 -0300
Re: UNIX systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-25 17:40 -0400
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-25 23:04 +0100
Re: UNIX systems Charles Dagny <1800@DEV.NULL> - 2025-03-28 21:41 -0300
Re: UNIX systems onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2025-03-10 15:06 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-11 11:58 -0300
Re: UNIX systems yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-11 15:49 +0042
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 15:25 +0000
Re: UNIX systems onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2025-03-11 16:24 +0000
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 17:30 +0000
Re: UNIX systems candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-12 22:30 +0000
Re: UNIX systems yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-12 23:23 +0042
Re: UNIX systems candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-03-13 20:40 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-13 18:04 -0300
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-13 21:26 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:23 -0300
Re: UNIX systems cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-13 01:24 +0000
Re: UNIX systems Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-12 01:38 -0300
Re: UNIX systems snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-12 14:03 +0000
Re: UNIX systems D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-12 22:19 +0100
Re: UNIX systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-11 19:09 -0400
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-03-04 02:44 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-03-04 17:50 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-19 09:40 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-20 08:29 +1000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:56 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:45 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:01 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:02 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:44 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:01 +0100
broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 13:46 -0300
Re: broken schools (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:18 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 22:34 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:38 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 15:45 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 14:05 +0100
Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-26 13:15 +0000
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:10 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:49 -0300
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 07:41 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 19:52 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 21:41 -0300
Re: broken schools yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-08 02:59 +0042
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 00:14 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 22:26 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 22:52 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 08:39 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 22:59 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-14 12:10 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-15 23:58 +0100
Re: broken schools Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-17 00:02 -0300
Re: broken schools Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-03-18 03:00 +0000
Re: broken schools Eva Lu <evalu@tor.soy> - 2025-03-18 21:20 -0300
Re: broken schools D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-18 11:17 +0100
OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-19 13:51 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic (Was: Re: broken schools) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-19 23:20 +0100
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-21 11:52 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-23 00:31 +0100
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-29 20:50 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-01 16:43 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-04 11:20 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-06 23:17 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-10 15:19 -0300
Re: OT: totally off-topic D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-04-12 21:05 +0200
Re: OT: totally off-topic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-04-13 13:10 -0300
lifestyles Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:20 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:40 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 15:57 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-17 18:30 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-17 22:44 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 00:08 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-18 00:30 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:52 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-20 01:09 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:27 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-20 21:51 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:22 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:07 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:35 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:31 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:06 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:01 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 13:48 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:56 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-18 10:22 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> - 2025-02-18 14:05 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 22:03 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:14 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:47 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-02-20 22:12 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:15 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:04 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:21 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 22:46 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 10:43 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2025-02-25 14:20 +0300
small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 15:20 -0300
Re: small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:57 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:20 -0300
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 14:49 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-02-26 13:50 +0042
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100
Re: small communities, nntp server D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:59 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:13 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:41 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:33 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:12 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 11:03 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:51 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-20 21:49 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 23:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:22 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-02-22 17:09 +0000
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-23 00:23 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-19 21:49 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 16:05 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 18:24 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-20 23:05 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-20 22:56 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-21 10:51 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-23 23:21 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 11:10 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 14:04 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-24 23:28 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-24 21:58 -0300
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-25 11:26 +0100
OT: personal stories (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-25 11:58 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-26 13:21 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-27 06:04 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-27 15:21 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-07 20:49 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-03-08 00:43 +0042
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:46 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-08 23:45 +0100
Re: OT: personal stories Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 21:37 -0300
Re: OT: personal stories D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-09 13:30 +0100
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2025-02-25 13:17 -0600
Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-26 21:21 -0300
Page 13 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 11 12 [13] 14 15 Next page →
| From | snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 22:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1r82qg1.5dn82r121ep78N%snipeco.2@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #26533 |
Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > > [...] > > > My dream is that people will start to use small self-hosted, > > end-to-end encrypted chat services, so that the laws forbidding > > encryption become meaningless. > > > > That's my idea, too. I don't think the USENET is actually a perfect > project. I think communities should not too large. So I think we > should build more NNTP servers to be used by small communities. And > then these servers should have a standard API so that an index could be > created somewhere where people can discover communities. > > Imagine how many closed NNTP servers, mailing lists are out there and > nobody knows. [...] Closed NNTP newsservers are not Usenet, just local proprietary news. They're operated by a server owner who has the power of booting users off his server if he doesn't like their opinions. Those users have no alternative server to use for those local groups so they've effectively been censored, exactly like web forums with a cadre of moderators. With Usenet there are many servers, each carrying a subset of groups from the full group list. If a server operator TOSes a user they're at liberty to use another service and still access their groups uncensored. -- ^Ï^. Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS My pet rock Gordon just is.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 23:15 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87r03savru.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26541 |
snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) writes: > Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: > >> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >> >> [...] >> >> > My dream is that people will start to use small self-hosted, >> > end-to-end encrypted chat services, so that the laws forbidding >> > encryption become meaningless. >> > >> >> That's my idea, too. I don't think the USENET is actually a perfect >> project. I think communities should not too large. So I think we >> should build more NNTP servers to be used by small communities. And >> then these servers should have a standard API so that an index could be >> created somewhere where people can discover communities. >> >> Imagine how many closed NNTP servers, mailing lists are out there and >> nobody knows. > [...] > > Closed NNTP newsservers are not Usenet, just local proprietary news. > They're operated by a server owner who has the power of booting users > off his server if he doesn't like their opinions. Those users have no > alternative server to use for those local groups so they've effectively > been censored, exactly like web forums with a cadre of moderators. > > With Usenet there are many servers, each carrying a subset of groups > from the full group list. If a server operator TOSes a user they're at > liberty to use another service and still access their groups uncensored. That's right. But I think we need the closed ones too. But I also think the closed ones are a good way to show people that there's something out there that's the USENET. So if they every get censored on a closed NNTP server, they could still go to a USENET server and still have a community they can't be banned from.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 11:04 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <8c1f9a81-4f8a-799f-ebcc-8d82cec82b43@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26557 |
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) writes: > >> Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: >> >>> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> My dream is that people will start to use small self-hosted, >>>> end-to-end encrypted chat services, so that the laws forbidding >>>> encryption become meaningless. >>>> >>> >>> That's my idea, too. I don't think the USENET is actually a perfect >>> project. I think communities should not too large. So I think we >>> should build more NNTP servers to be used by small communities. And >>> then these servers should have a standard API so that an index could be >>> created somewhere where people can discover communities. >>> >>> Imagine how many closed NNTP servers, mailing lists are out there and >>> nobody knows. >> [...] >> >> Closed NNTP newsservers are not Usenet, just local proprietary news. >> They're operated by a server owner who has the power of booting users >> off his server if he doesn't like their opinions. Those users have no >> alternative server to use for those local groups so they've effectively >> been censored, exactly like web forums with a cadre of moderators. >> >> With Usenet there are many servers, each carrying a subset of groups >> from the full group list. If a server operator TOSes a user they're at >> liberty to use another service and still access their groups uncensored. > > That's right. But I think we need the closed ones too. But I also > think the closed ones are a good way to show people that there's > something out there that's the USENET. So if they every get censored on > a closed NNTP server, they could still go to a USENET server and still > have a community they can't be banned from. > I think that more choice is better! Some will prefer small, private communities, some the global usenet, and some will switch between the two. =)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 10:21 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <d016aa3b-ee17-2bad-89b7-ca94e14dde86@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26533 |
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > > [...] > >> My dream is that people will start to use small self-hosted, >> end-to-end encrypted chat services, so that the laws forbidding >> encryption become meaningless. > > That's my idea, too. I don't think the USENET is actually a perfect > project. I think communities should not too large. So I think we > should build more NNTP servers to be used by small communities. And > then these servers should have a standard API so that an index could be > created somewhere where people can discover communities. > > Imagine how many closed NNTP servers, mailing lists are out there and > nobody knows. > > The web is like that. A website sends you to another one. This is > decentralization. No NNTP servers send you to another one, except those > that have peers, but then it's as if they're all the same. My idea is > to make NNTP servers more like the web. > > I don't know if it works. I'm thinking out loud. That would be a nice take on NNTP. A kind of "federated" nntp model, as opposed to todays standardize and "global" version. Federated is perhaps not the right word for it. I think I see your vision here... we could think of the local nntp servers as small communities, you could opt-in to make them public, keep them private, or just register them with a search engine if you want. That model also would avoid all the newsgroup hierarchy stuff, you just name your groups what ever you want, and you can decide to setup peers with other communities you know.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-23 22:46 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87tt8k3yjp.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26562 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > >> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >> >> [...] >> >>> My dream is that people will start to use small self-hosted, >>> end-to-end encrypted chat services, so that the laws forbidding >>> encryption become meaningless. >> >> That's my idea, too. I don't think the USENET is actually a perfect >> project. I think communities should not too large. So I think we >> should build more NNTP servers to be used by small communities. And >> then these servers should have a standard API so that an index could be >> created somewhere where people can discover communities. >> >> Imagine how many closed NNTP servers, mailing lists are out there and >> nobody knows. >> >> The web is like that. A website sends you to another one. This is >> decentralization. No NNTP servers send you to another one, except those >> that have peers, but then it's as if they're all the same. My idea is >> to make NNTP servers more like the web. >> >> I don't know if it works. I'm thinking out loud. > > That would be a nice take on NNTP. A kind of "federated" nntp model, > as opposed to todays standardize and "global" version. Federated is > perhaps not the right word for it. > > I think I see your vision here... we could think of the local nntp > servers as small communities, you could opt-in to make them public, > keep them private, or just register them with a search engine if you > want. > > That model also would avoid all the newsgroup hierarchy stuff, you > just name your groups what ever you want, and you can decide to setup > peers with other communities you know. Yeah---that's the idea. But it's also future. First thing is to get a nice prototype with the mundane work done so that we can start dreaming up something cool like that. More to follow eventually.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-24 10:43 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <991575cc-d15e-0729-d571-b5396a1052e1@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26618 |
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > >> On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: >> >>> D <nospam@example.net> writes: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> My dream is that people will start to use small self-hosted, >>>> end-to-end encrypted chat services, so that the laws forbidding >>>> encryption become meaningless. >>> >>> That's my idea, too. I don't think the USENET is actually a perfect >>> project. I think communities should not too large. So I think we >>> should build more NNTP servers to be used by small communities. And >>> then these servers should have a standard API so that an index could be >>> created somewhere where people can discover communities. >>> >>> Imagine how many closed NNTP servers, mailing lists are out there and >>> nobody knows. >>> >>> The web is like that. A website sends you to another one. This is >>> decentralization. No NNTP servers send you to another one, except those >>> that have peers, but then it's as if they're all the same. My idea is >>> to make NNTP servers more like the web. >>> >>> I don't know if it works. I'm thinking out loud. >> >> That would be a nice take on NNTP. A kind of "federated" nntp model, >> as opposed to todays standardize and "global" version. Federated is >> perhaps not the right word for it. >> >> I think I see your vision here... we could think of the local nntp >> servers as small communities, you could opt-in to make them public, >> keep them private, or just register them with a search engine if you >> want. >> >> That model also would avoid all the newsgroup hierarchy stuff, you >> just name your groups what ever you want, and you can decide to setup >> peers with other communities you know. > > Yeah---that's the idea. But it's also future. First thing is to get a > nice prototype with the mundane work done so that we can start dreaming > up something cool like that. More to follow eventually. > Looking forward to it!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-25 14:20 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <20250225142026.34dcfeedd457824305b5e455@gmail.moc> |
| In reply to | #26562 |
D to Salvador Mirzo: > > The web is like that. A website sends you to another > > one. This is decentralization. No NNTP servers send > > you to another one, except those that have peers, but > > then it's as if they're all the same. My idea is to > > make NNTP servers more like the web. > > That would be a nice take on NNTP. A kind of "federated" > nntp model, as opposed to todays standardize and "global" > version. Federated is perhaps not the right word for it. > > I think I see your vision here... we could think of the > local nntp servers as small communities, you could opt-in > to make them public, keep them private, or just register > them with a search engine if you want. > > That model also would avoid all the newsgroup hierarchy > stuff, you just name your groups what ever you want, and > you can decide to setup peers with other communities you > know. Is the difference from the current Usenet so big? There already are many servers, public and private, and peering with one another. news.tilde.club is an example of a small NNTP community. -- () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-25 15:20 -0300 |
| Subject | small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) |
| Message-ID | <87a5a9rimn.fsf_-_@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26672 |
Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> writes:
> D to Salvador Mirzo:
>
>> > The web is like that. A website sends you to another
>> > one. This is decentralization. No NNTP servers send
>> > you to another one, except those that have peers, but
>> > then it's as if they're all the same. My idea is to
>> > make NNTP servers more like the web.
>>
>> That would be a nice take on NNTP. A kind of "federated"
>> nntp model, as opposed to todays standardize and "global"
>> version. Federated is perhaps not the right word for it.
>>
>> I think I see your vision here... we could think of the
>> local nntp servers as small communities, you could opt-in
>> to make them public, keep them private, or just register
>> them with a search engine if you want.
>>
>> That model also would avoid all the newsgroup hierarchy
>> stuff, you just name your groups what ever you want, and
>> you can decide to setup peers with other communities you
>> know.
>
> Is the difference from the current Usenet so big? There
> already are many servers, public and private, and peering
> with one another. news.tilde.club is an example of a small
> NNTP community.
It's not too different. It's close. But not quite. For instance, in
my idea---which I acknowledge that I did not present it properly---, the
NNTP server is meant for a small community of people who would like to
have an interesting community. I'm writing ``interesting'' on purpose
because it is completely vague. But you'll get the meaning of the words
from the properties of the community.
Which properties? Let's leave that open as well. Let's go straight to
the implementation of system behavior that has been designed to support
these properties---whether it will work or not.
In an NNTP server of such desired communities, every member should have
the same rights as every other member---meaning powers in the system.
So every member can create whatever groups he wishes. How could NNTP
systems allow this? Clients don't have a way to send arbitrary commands
to servers. So the idea of such NNTP server is to allow a remote TCP
connection to let users interact with the server beyond of what NNTP
really allows. In other words, the system should be hackable. And it
might be even literally hackable. For example:
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
$ telnet nntp.server.somewhere.com 119
Trying 1.2.3.4...
Connected to nntp.server.somewhere.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
200 Welcome!
repl
REPL> (+ 1 1)
2
LOOP> quit
200 Okay, done.
quit
205 Good-bye.
Connection closed by foreign host.
$
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
You get the idea. Honestly, this look rather pointless to me right now.
(You can use the REPL to use someone's account, say, without the person
ever finding out.) It's really just a joke in taking ``hackable'' to
the extreme. I can also say it's a homage paid to the MIT hackers in
the 50s and 60s, who built debuggers that let you fix problems in the
system as you used it, stories told in the book ``Hackers'' by Steven
Levy, 1984.
Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Let's get back. So by way of shells
like that, you can have commands that let you create groups and create
user accounts and other things. For instance, we can implement search
beyond XPAT, say, and many more things for fun or whatever.
So I want to provide people with a tool that's very easy to install and
lets them create a closed community with a tree of users. What tree?
To get an account, someone on the inside must create your account and
then the system records has invited who. It's clear to everyone who
knows who, who invited who. This might create a certain sense of
responsibility in the users. There should be a command that lists all
users and the tree of users, so that's public information:
users
200 List of current users:
A, last seen on Mon Nov 25 14:40:16 2024, invited (B C)
B (account locked: disappeared for over 3 months), last seen on Sun Nov 17 23:39:21 2024, invited nobody
C, last seen on Tue Feb 25 14:42:24 2025, invited (D E F ...)
[...]
You get the idea.
This idea stems from my hypothesis that a good community is one that
unites people in cyberspace, but these people have a real connection
with one another that goes beyond the mere interaction that might be
taking place between them in cyberspace. Say I invited you. Then
that's because I already know you somehow. You then invite someone
else, whom I have no idea about, but I do know that that person has a
connection with you, so it has an indirect connection with me. Of
course that people might just randomly invite one another; it's a system
with mathematical guarantees.
Just let you understand me a bit more: I came to the conclusion that an
a community in cyberspace should have a connection in the offline world.
So I invite a friend from mine school, who might invite someone across
the world, but this remote person has a connection with my friend, who
has an external-world connection with me.
And there's much more---I think it's nice to have a cohesive group,
which could use the knowledge of who is reading the groups, closing
accounts of people who don't have the interest in participating. This
allows a person who is writing to answer the question---what's my
audience? Those that have been logging on.
In other words, there's no privacy. The idea is for a closed community.
USENET access doesn't interfere with the community because the USENET
can't read the local groups.
Although there's no privacy, many experiments can be done. We could
have a command, for example, that enables randomization of names in a
certain group so that nobody ever knows who posted what. But such idea
is nothing but a game---it's usually very easy to detect who writes what
in a small group.
The idea really started out as a playground for programmers, but it has
evolved to some of these ideas. There's much more to it, but I plan to
dissertate on it only if I release a first prototype.
If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear about it.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 13:57 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: small communities, nntp server (Was: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy) |
| Message-ID | <2e5b4c25-5c44-23aa-1765-4346b724cd31@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26682 |
Sounds interesting! I don't know which way would be the best one to go. To fork leafnode, and add/remove stuff, or to write from scratch. If you only focus on a subset of nntp maybe writing from scratch might not be such a huge task? On Tue, 25 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> writes: > >> D to Salvador Mirzo: >> >>>> The web is like that. A website sends you to another >>>> one. This is decentralization. No NNTP servers send >>>> you to another one, except those that have peers, but >>>> then it's as if they're all the same. My idea is to >>>> make NNTP servers more like the web. >>> >>> That would be a nice take on NNTP. A kind of "federated" >>> nntp model, as opposed to todays standardize and "global" >>> version. Federated is perhaps not the right word for it. >>> >>> I think I see your vision here... we could think of the >>> local nntp servers as small communities, you could opt-in >>> to make them public, keep them private, or just register >>> them with a search engine if you want. >>> >>> That model also would avoid all the newsgroup hierarchy >>> stuff, you just name your groups what ever you want, and >>> you can decide to setup peers with other communities you >>> know. >> >> Is the difference from the current Usenet so big? There >> already are many servers, public and private, and peering >> with one another. news.tilde.club is an example of a small >> NNTP community. > > It's not too different. It's close. But not quite. For instance, in > my idea---which I acknowledge that I did not present it properly---, the > NNTP server is meant for a small community of people who would like to > have an interesting community. I'm writing ``interesting'' on purpose > because it is completely vague. But you'll get the meaning of the words > from the properties of the community. > > Which properties? Let's leave that open as well. Let's go straight to > the implementation of system behavior that has been designed to support > these properties---whether it will work or not. > > In an NNTP server of such desired communities, every member should have > the same rights as every other member---meaning powers in the system. > So every member can create whatever groups he wishes. How could NNTP > systems allow this? Clients don't have a way to send arbitrary commands > to servers. So the idea of such NNTP server is to allow a remote TCP > connection to let users interact with the server beyond of what NNTP > really allows. In other words, the system should be hackable. And it > might be even literally hackable. For example: > > --8<-------------------------------------------------------->8--- > $ telnet nntp.server.somewhere.com 119 > Trying 1.2.3.4... > Connected to nntp.server.somewhere.com. > Escape character is '^]'. > 200 Welcome! > repl > REPL> (+ 1 1) > 2 > LOOP> quit > 200 Okay, done. > quit > 205 Good-bye. > Connection closed by foreign host. > $ > --8<-------------------------------------------------------->8--- > > You get the idea. Honestly, this look rather pointless to me right now. > (You can use the REPL to use someone's account, say, without the person > ever finding out.) It's really just a joke in taking ``hackable'' to > the extreme. I can also say it's a homage paid to the MIT hackers in > the 50s and 60s, who built debuggers that let you fix problems in the > system as you used it, stories told in the book ``Hackers'' by Steven > Levy, 1984. > > Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Let's get back. So by way of shells > like that, you can have commands that let you create groups and create > user accounts and other things. For instance, we can implement search > beyond XPAT, say, and many more things for fun or whatever. > > So I want to provide people with a tool that's very easy to install and > lets them create a closed community with a tree of users. What tree? > To get an account, someone on the inside must create your account and > then the system records has invited who. It's clear to everyone who > knows who, who invited who. This might create a certain sense of > responsibility in the users. There should be a command that lists all > users and the tree of users, so that's public information: > > users > 200 List of current users: > A, last seen on Mon Nov 25 14:40:16 2024, invited (B C) > B (account locked: disappeared for over 3 months), last seen on Sun Nov 17 23:39:21 2024, invited nobody > C, last seen on Tue Feb 25 14:42:24 2025, invited (D E F ...) > [...] > > You get the idea. > > This idea stems from my hypothesis that a good community is one that > unites people in cyberspace, but these people have a real connection > with one another that goes beyond the mere interaction that might be > taking place between them in cyberspace. Say I invited you. Then > that's because I already know you somehow. You then invite someone > else, whom I have no idea about, but I do know that that person has a > connection with you, so it has an indirect connection with me. Of > course that people might just randomly invite one another; it's a system > with mathematical guarantees. > > Just let you understand me a bit more: I came to the conclusion that an > a community in cyberspace should have a connection in the offline world. > So I invite a friend from mine school, who might invite someone across > the world, but this remote person has a connection with my friend, who > has an external-world connection with me. > > And there's much more---I think it's nice to have a cohesive group, > which could use the knowledge of who is reading the groups, closing > accounts of people who don't have the interest in participating. This > allows a person who is writing to answer the question---what's my > audience? Those that have been logging on. > > In other words, there's no privacy. The idea is for a closed community. > USENET access doesn't interfere with the community because the USENET > can't read the local groups. > > Although there's no privacy, many experiments can be done. We could > have a command, for example, that enables randomization of names in a > certain group so that nobody ever knows who posted what. But such idea > is nothing but a game---it's usually very easy to detect who writes what > in a small group. > > The idea really started out as a playground for programmers, but it has > evolved to some of these ideas. There's much more to it, but I plan to > dissertate on it only if I release a first prototype. > > If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear about it. >
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 21:20 -0300 |
| Subject | Re: small communities, nntp server |
| Message-ID | <87frk0kzlv.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26708 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: > Sounds interesting! I don't know which way would be the best one to > go. To fork leafnode, and add/remove stuff, or to write from scratch. > > If you only focus on a subset of nntp maybe writing from scratch might > not be such a huge task? Totally right. Specially if you know the language quite well, which is not actually my case---this is my first program in Common Lisp. Nevertheless, it's the most enjoyable project I've ever worked on in my life.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-27 14:49 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: small communities, nntp server |
| Message-ID | <f272c15b-ed29-b2d0-c3b7-b9649c68c1a8@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26732 |
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > >> Sounds interesting! I don't know which way would be the best one to >> go. To fork leafnode, and add/remove stuff, or to write from scratch. >> >> If you only focus on a subset of nntp maybe writing from scratch might >> not be such a huge task? > > Totally right. Specially if you know the language quite well, which is > not actually my case---this is my first program in Common Lisp. > Nevertheless, it's the most enjoyable project I've ever worked on in my > life. > I'm happy to hear it! =)
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| From | yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 13:50 +0042 |
| Subject | Re: small communities, nntp server |
| Message-ID | <87h64g6egp.fsf@tilde.institute> |
| In reply to | #26682 |
Has ™someone™ experiences with Cyrus-NNTP?
<https://www.cyrusimap.org/imap/reference/admin/nntp.html>
The last time I wanted to try it, it's dependencies on Debian were
broken and I've not retried it since then.
.
--
___ _
|\/| | |_) |
| | E S H | H E | L A N E T .
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BurOF6X4EXc>
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: small communities, nntp server |
| Message-ID | <a9cbf95d-b4d4-0b1d-e3da-df68becc0bc9@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26710 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025, yeti wrote: > Has ™someone™ experiences with Cyrus-NNTP? > > <https://www.cyrusimap.org/imap/reference/admin/nntp.html> > > The last time I wanted to try it, it's dependencies on Debian were > broken and I've not retried it since then. > . > Interesting! Didn't know it included an nntp server. The last nntp server I got running was leafnode.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-26 23:08 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: small communities, nntp server |
| Message-ID | <a8a7d645-bd84-2105-ce0c-af99050c4dd9@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26710 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025, yeti wrote: > Has ™someone™ experiences with Cyrus-NNTP? > > <https://www.cyrusimap.org/imap/reference/admin/nntp.html> > > The last time I wanted to try it, it's dependencies on Debian were > broken and I've not retried it since then. > . > Sorry, not a real server. Leafnode is more of nntp "light".
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-19 21:59 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87a5ahl9cy.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26481 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: [...] > Another option is to have 2 phone numbers. One for work, and one for > friends (without quotationmarks). Two phones is a good idea. Or two chips, but then you have to be careful not to accidentally share your contacts with the app. Gotta be careful. Two phones is safer because then you have no contacts in the second one. > I use the same technique with email. I have a spam-email that > currently has around 20k spam messages in it, and this is the one most > companies get. It's also nice to host your own mail. It's not as difficult as people have been saying lately. A few weeks of reading (YMMV) can take you from zero to up and running.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 16:13 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <7a565ef6-2a26-f2d0-6029-648c8f40d158@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26506 |
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > > [...] > >> Another option is to have 2 phone numbers. One for work, and one for >> friends (without quotationmarks). > > Two phones is a good idea. Or two chips, but then you have to be > careful not to accidentally share your contacts with the app. Gotta be > careful. Two phones is safer because then you have no contacts in the > second one. I have a dumbphone with 2 sim slots. It's ok, does the job and nothing more. It's a nokia 110 4g. The good thing is that since it has two sim slots I can have both my work and private number on the same phone. Since it is a dumbphone, there are no apps that can leak data between the two. =) >> I use the same technique with email. I have a spam-email that >> currently has around 20k spam messages in it, and this is the one most >> companies get. > > It's also nice to host your own mail. It's not as difficult as people > have been saying lately. A few weeks of reading (YMMV) can take you > from zero to up and running. I buy this from a local european cloud provider. I am very happy with their service. I have thought about hosting myself, but I cannot justify the time. I do self-host my web site, and 2 SaaS products though on rented servers. =)
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 18:41 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87bjuwfg4w.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26524 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: [...] >>> I use the same technique with email. I have a spam-email that >>> currently has around 20k spam messages in it, and this is the one most >>> companies get. >> >> It's also nice to host your own mail. It's not as difficult as people >> have been saying lately. A few weeks of reading (YMMV) can take you >> from zero to up and running. > > I buy this from a local european cloud provider. I am very happy with > their service. I have thought about hosting myself, but I cannot > justify the time. > > I do self-host my web site, and 2 SaaS products though on rented > servers. =) You're good. I decided to host my everything. I'm running notqmail with some patches on top. My phone e-mail checker is K9, which I believe is actually Thunderbird. But it turns out that now there's the Thunderbird for Android, too. It looks the same as K9, except that it's blue instead of red. On the desktop, I run Gnus with an IMAP4 server local. And it's not over---I also run fdm to fetch my mail from my own server to me locally. So, yes, it's very complicated. And I'm not even close to finish because I didn't talk about public-inbox and mailing lists, which is involved with Gnus because it's where I read and write mail. It's almost a life project. But it's fun to do these things *if* you have the free time.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 23:33 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <410ead07-9330-56be-1449-c346c1a7bea3@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26532 |
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > > [...] > >>>> I use the same technique with email. I have a spam-email that >>>> currently has around 20k spam messages in it, and this is the one most >>>> companies get. >>> >>> It's also nice to host your own mail. It's not as difficult as people >>> have been saying lately. A few weeks of reading (YMMV) can take you >>> from zero to up and running. >> >> I buy this from a local european cloud provider. I am very happy with >> their service. I have thought about hosting myself, but I cannot >> justify the time. >> >> I do self-host my web site, and 2 SaaS products though on rented >> servers. =) > > You're good. > > I decided to host my everything. I'm running notqmail with some patches > on top. My phone e-mail checker is K9, which I believe is actually > Thunderbird. But it turns out that now there's the Thunderbird for > Android, too. It looks the same as K9, except that it's blue instead of > red. On the desktop, I run Gnus with an IMAP4 server local. And it's > not over---I also run fdm to fetch my mail from my own server to me > locally. So, yes, it's very complicated. And I'm not even close to > finish because I didn't talk about public-inbox and mailing lists, which > is involved with Gnus because it's where I read and write mail. It's > almost a life project. > > But it's fun to do these things *if* you have the free time. This is the truth! It is fun! =) My at home self hosting is limited to 2 x 2 bay NAS boxes (in two separate countries with replication between them), 1 x radxa zero with kodi on it, which pulls movies from one of the NAS boxes, and a backup server which receives backups from my laptop and my fathers laptop. That's about it, when it comes to personal self-hosting.
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| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-20 23:12 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87wmdkavwa.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #26543 |
D <nospam@example.net> writes: >> I decided to host my everything. I'm running notqmail with some patches >> on top. My phone e-mail checker is K9, which I believe is actually >> Thunderbird. But it turns out that now there's the Thunderbird for >> Android, too. It looks the same as K9, except that it's blue instead of >> red. On the desktop, I run Gnus with an IMAP4 server local. And it's >> not over---I also run fdm to fetch my mail from my own server to me >> locally. So, yes, it's very complicated. And I'm not even close to >> finish because I didn't talk about public-inbox and mailing lists, which >> is involved with Gnus because it's where I read and write mail. It's >> almost a life project. >> >> But it's fun to do these things *if* you have the free time. > > This is the truth! It is fun! =) My at home self hosting is limited to > 2 x 2 bay NAS boxes (in two separate countries with replication > between them), 1 x radxa zero with kodi on it, which pulls movies from > one of the NAS boxes, and a backup server which receives backups from > my laptop and my fathers laptop. > > That's about it, when it comes to personal self-hosting. You know, I have not worked on backup yet. :) I've done a lot of work on this system and I don't really have a backup, except for one project or two that I happen to once in a while push some commits to a remote server. But my remote server doesn't have a backup strategy either. And my needs are pretty simple. If I can stop to just write a Makefile that copies files to a remote server, that will keep me safe. Gotta stop to do this. I also have some unallocated space on my solid state drive. OpenBSD is able to dump partitions and using these dumps for recovery. It could be something that would be very effective, too. Gotta get some things out of the way here first and start new projects. I'm taking my chances for now.
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| From | D <nospam@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-21 11:03 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <96023ba9-7561-445a-1289-ea6b93677ba8@example.net> |
| In reply to | #26556 |
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote: > D <nospam@example.net> writes: > >>> I decided to host my everything. I'm running notqmail with some patches >>> on top. My phone e-mail checker is K9, which I believe is actually >>> Thunderbird. But it turns out that now there's the Thunderbird for >>> Android, too. It looks the same as K9, except that it's blue instead of >>> red. On the desktop, I run Gnus with an IMAP4 server local. And it's >>> not over---I also run fdm to fetch my mail from my own server to me >>> locally. So, yes, it's very complicated. And I'm not even close to >>> finish because I didn't talk about public-inbox and mailing lists, which >>> is involved with Gnus because it's where I read and write mail. It's >>> almost a life project. >>> >>> But it's fun to do these things *if* you have the free time. >> >> This is the truth! It is fun! =) My at home self hosting is limited to >> 2 x 2 bay NAS boxes (in two separate countries with replication >> between them), 1 x radxa zero with kodi on it, which pulls movies from >> one of the NAS boxes, and a backup server which receives backups from >> my laptop and my fathers laptop. >> >> That's about it, when it comes to personal self-hosting. > > You know, I have not worked on backup yet. :) I've done a lot of work on > this system and I don't really have a backup, except for one project or > two that I happen to once in a while push some commits to a remote > server. But my remote server doesn't have a backup strategy either. > And my needs are pretty simple. If I can stop to just write a Makefile > that copies files to a remote server, that will keep me safe. Gotta > stop to do this. > > I also have some unallocated space on my solid state drive. OpenBSD is > able to dump partitions and using these dumps for recovery. It could be > something that would be very effective, too. Gotta get some things out > of the way here first and start new projects. I'm taking my chances for > now. > I recommend restic, alternatively for a more home made feeling, rsync. Both have worked really well for me, and restic seems to have matured very well the past couple of years.
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