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[LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

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  [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-21 07:10 +1000
    Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-21 10:23 +0100
    Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-21 20:18 +0800
      Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-01-21 12:56 +0000
        Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-21 19:18 +0100
      Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-01-21 10:33 -0300
        Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-21 18:12 +0000
        Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-22 06:56 +1000
          Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-23 19:33 +0000
            Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-01-24 13:30 +0800
              Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-01-27 20:56 +0000
                Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-01-27 21:02 +0000
        Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-01-29 19:00 +0000
          Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-29 19:33 +0000
            Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-01-29 20:04 +0000
              Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-01-29 22:15 +0000
                Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 10:50 +0100
                Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-01-30 18:47 +0000
              Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-30 00:53 +0000
                Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-30 01:53 +0042
                  Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-30 03:38 +0000
                    Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-30 04:43 +0042
          Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-24 05:38 +0000
    Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2025-01-21 15:30 +0000
      Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2025-01-21 16:26 +0000
      Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-21 19:21 +0100
    Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-21 19:54 +0000
      Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-01-22 06:47 +1000
        Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-21 22:49 +0042
          Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2025-01-22 13:04 +1000
            Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2025-01-22 12:58 +0042
            Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-01-25 15:15 +0000
    Re: [LINK] Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2025-01-21 20:57 +0000

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#26420

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> They could, that is until google simply starts expecting JS to be
>> executed regardless of the value of the user agent header.
> 
> Then scrapers will add JS to their agents and the users of older
> browsers are the only ones reliably locked out.

Which is exactly what I posted four posts back:

Message-ID: <vndvpi$2h3ut$1@dont-email.me>
 
> candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:
> >> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> writes:
> >> I'm not approving the idea; just sharing what I think they might 
> >> have in mind when they say Javascript will help them fend off 
> >> robots.
> >
> > It would also make it harder to scrape, since I  think  web scrapers 
> > don't run JS by default.
> 
> Which just means this will push web scrapers to start running JS.
> 
> They don't run JS (yet) because they have not needed to run JS to do 
> their scraping.  But if JS is required, and they want to scrape bad 
> enough, they will put in support for running JS.

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#26421

Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

> yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> They could, that is until google simply starts expecting JS to be
>>> executed regardless of the value of the user agent header.
>> 
>> Then scrapers will add JS to their agents and the users of older
>> browsers are the only ones reliably locked out.
>
> Which is exactly what I posted four posts back:

Hit shappens!

And IMO this is no reason to repeat yourself.

-- 
                             Trump-Fatigue?
              Try ... <https://bobskaradio.com/> ... now!

                            \\o   o//   \o/

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#26627

On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 19:00:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

> It would also make it harder to scrape, since I /think/ web scrapers
> don't run JS by default.

I don’t see why it’s so hard to do. Toolkits like PhantomJS and Selenium 
have been commonplace for years, for precisely this sort of use. They’re 
in the standard Debian repos, so should be available in derivatives 
thereof -- check your distro with an apt-cache search.

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#26381

Oh the irony ... it's ok to scrape everybody else's content to train its 
AI/News products, but how dare anyone else try the same to us!

On 2025-01-20, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search
>  by Thom Holwerda 2025-01-18
>  - https://www.osnews.com/story/141570/google-begins-requiring-javascript-for-google-search/
>
> " Google says it has begun requiring users to turn on JavaScript, the 
>   widely used programming language to make web pages interactive, in 
>   order to use Google Search.
>   In an email to TechCrunch, a company spokesperson claimed that the 
>   change is intended to "better protect" Google Search against 
>   malicious activity, such as bots and spam, and to improve the 
>   overall Google Search experience for users. The spokesperson noted 
>   that, without JavaScript, many Google Search features won't work 
>   properly and that the quality of search results tends to be 
>   degraded.
>  Kyle Wiggers at TechCrunch
>  
>  One of the strangely odd compliments you could give Google Search 
>  is that it would load even on the weirdest or oldest browsers, 
>  simply because it didn't require JavaScript. Whether I loaded 
>  Google Search in the JS-less Dillo, Blazer on PalmOS, or the latest 
>  Firefox, I'd end up with a search box I could type something into 
>  and search. Sure, beyond that the web would be, shall we say, 
>  problematic, but at least Google Search worked. With this move, 
>  Google will end such compatibility, which was most likely a side 
>  effect more than policy." ...
>
> I switched from Google to Duck Duck Go (Lite) many years ago, but
> it's annoying that I'll have to find another search engine to use
> as a fall-back for when DDG breaks, since I do most of my Web
> browsing in Dillo.
>

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#26382

On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 15:30:19 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> wrote:
>Oh the irony ... it's ok to scrape everybody else's content to train its 
>AI/News products, but how dare anyone else try the same to us!

the supreme council have wanted their infallible "nanny state" to become 
an actual planet-wide reality . . . and by now they've just about got it
 
if people really do get the government they deserve, then the government
really do get the people they deserve . . what goes around, comes around 

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#26385

On Tue, 21 Jan 2025, Jim Jackson wrote:

>
> Oh the irony ... it's ok to scrape everybody else's content to train its
> AI/News products, but how dare anyone else try the same to us!

Jim, you're forgetting something. It is also ok to serve up copyrighted 
material such as movies and tv series to the public witout permission of 
the owner on youtube, and not get any fines at all!

Woe unto you, if you do that as a small business owner, then the IP 
lawyers will be after you.

> On 2025-01-20, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>> Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search
>>  by Thom Holwerda 2025-01-18
>>  - https://www.osnews.com/story/141570/google-begins-requiring-javascript-for-google-search/
>>
>> " Google says it has begun requiring users to turn on JavaScript, the
>>   widely used programming language to make web pages interactive, in
>>   order to use Google Search.
>>   In an email to TechCrunch, a company spokesperson claimed that the
>>   change is intended to "better protect" Google Search against
>>   malicious activity, such as bots and spam, and to improve the
>>   overall Google Search experience for users. The spokesperson noted
>>   that, without JavaScript, many Google Search features won't work
>>   properly and that the quality of search results tends to be
>>   degraded.
>>  Kyle Wiggers at TechCrunch
>>
>>  One of the strangely odd compliments you could give Google Search
>>  is that it would load even on the weirdest or oldest browsers,
>>  simply because it didn't require JavaScript. Whether I loaded
>>  Google Search in the JS-less Dillo, Blazer on PalmOS, or the latest
>>  Firefox, I'd end up with a search box I could type something into
>>  and search. Sure, beyond that the web would be, shall we say,
>>  problematic, but at least Google Search worked. With this move,
>>  Google will end such compatibility, which was most likely a side
>>  effect more than policy." ...
>>
>> I switched from Google to Duck Duck Go (Lite) many years ago, but
>> it's annoying that I'll have to find another search engine to use
>> as a fall-back for when DDG breaks, since I do most of my Web
>> browsing in Dillo.
>>
>

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#26386

Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

> " Google says it has begun requiring users to turn on JavaScript, the
>    widely used programming language to make web pages interactive, in
>    order to use Google Search.

Text search still works with JS disabled, but I think image/map/video 
search have required JS for some time, shopping search is pot luck as 
you only see descriptions with no images, you can't use verbatim or 
date-range searches unless you know how to manipulate the query 
parameters in the URL

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#26387

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> 
>> " Google says it has begun requiring users to turn on JavaScript, the
>>    widely used programming language to make web pages interactive, in
>>    order to use Google Search.
> 
> Text search still works with JS disabled,

Before posting I tried a Google search in Dillo and was redirected
to a page saying:
"Turn on JavaScript to keep searching"

Same thing today.

Apparantly some specific user-agents might be excepted, although
that seems inconsistent with aiming to block bots since it's an
obvious solution for them too.

> but I think image/map/video search have required JS for some
> time

Video and image searches didn't need JS and are actually still
working in Dillo even though full web searches are denied. My guess
is that they'll roll the redirects out to them as well before long
though.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#26390

not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:

> Before posting I tried a Google search in Dillo and was redirected
> to a page saying:
> "Turn on JavaScript to keep searching"
>
> Same thing today.

~$ grep ELinks .dillo/dillorc 
##     "ELinks/0.18.0 (textmode; Linux 5.10.0-33-amd64 x86_64; 102x36-2)"
http_user_agent="ELinks/0.18.0 (textmode; Linux)"

-- 
I do not bite, I just want to play.

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#26391

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
> not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
> 
>> Before posting I tried a Google search in Dillo and was redirected
>> to a page saying:
>> "Turn on JavaScript to keep searching"
>>
>> Same thing today.
> 
> ~$ grep ELinks .dillo/dillorc 
> ##     "ELinks/0.18.0 (textmode; Linux 5.10.0-33-amd64 x86_64; 102x36-2)"
> http_user_agent="ELinks/0.18.0 (textmode; Linux)"

But now nobody knows you're using Dillo in the first place! What
incentive do website makers have to consider Dillo users if they're
all pretending to use other browsers?

I think it's shooting yourself in the foot. True, websites have
been machine gunning me down for years in spite of my honest Dillo
user-agent, but at least I'm not part of the problem.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#26392

Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:

> yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
>> not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>> 
>>> Before posting I tried a Google search in Dillo and was redirected
>>> to a page saying:
>>> "Turn on JavaScript to keep searching"
>>>
>>> Same thing today.
>> 
>> ~$ grep ELinks .dillo/dillorc 
>> ##     "ELinks/0.18.0 (textmode; Linux 5.10.0-33-amd64 x86_64; 102x36-2)"
>> http_user_agent="ELinks/0.18.0 (textmode; Linux)"
>
> But now nobody knows you're using Dillo in the first place! What
> incentive do website makers have to consider Dillo users if they're
> all pretending to use other browsers?

I played with that config setting for maybe only an hour.  Just for
curiosity.

-- 
I do not bite, I just want to play.

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#26404

Computer Nerd Kev  <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
>> not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
>> 
>>> Before posting I tried a Google search in Dillo and was redirected
>>> to a page saying:
>>> "Turn on JavaScript to keep searching"
>>>
>>> Same thing today.
>> 
>> ~$ grep ELinks .dillo/dillorc 
>> ##     "ELinks/0.18.0 (textmode; Linux 5.10.0-33-amd64 x86_64; 102x36-2)"
>> http_user_agent="ELinks/0.18.0 (textmode; Linux)"
>
>But now nobody knows you're using Dillo in the first place! What
>incentive do website makers have to consider Dillo users if they're
>all pretending to use other browsers?

I am using lynx, and it is configured to identify as "Laxative Nine" in
the string, and I have no problem doing google searches.  It has not at
any point got upset at my lack of javascript, unlike so many other sites.
--scott

-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#26389

Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search
>  by Thom Holwerda 2025-01-18
>  - https://www.osnews.com/story/141570/google-begins-requiring-javascript-for-google-search/
> 
> " Google says it has begun requiring users to turn on JavaScript, the 
>   widely used programming language to make web pages interactive, in 
>   order to use Google Search.
>   In an email to TechCrunch, a company spokesperson claimed that the 
>   change is intended to "better protect" Google Search against 
>   malicious activity, such as bots and spam, and to improve the 
>   overall Google Search experience for users. The spokesperson noted 
>   that, without JavaScript, many Google Search features won't work 
>   properly and that the quality of search results tends to be 
>   degraded.
>  Kyle Wiggers at TechCrunch
 
I don't want many Google Search features, I find them annoying,
especially their "suggestions".
As for the "quality of search results", I mostly use duckduckgo
because google search results generally suck.

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