Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer??

From	Ethan Carter <ec1828@somewhere.edu>
Newsgroups	comp.misc
Subject	Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer??
Date	2025-04-01 10:25 -0300
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<x87v7rof1yt.fsf@somewhere.edu> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <vs7a9c$3pg3k$1@dont-email.me> <87tt7bo1wc.fsf@gmail.com> <vsaj17$38nej$3@dont-email.me> <87h63ak3e3.fsf@gmail.com> <vscrc4$2t8mk$5@dont-email.me>

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

> On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 11:19:00 -0300, Ethan Carter wrote:

>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 20:25:23 -0300, Ethan Carter wrote:
>>>
>>>> I get the feeling here that, by the same token, you could never have a
>>>> provably secure cryptosystem because someone knows the private key?
>>>
>>> None of our cryptosystems are provably secure.
>> 
>> One example of provably secure system is the one-time pad.
>
> But it’s not. Where do you get the pad from? Proof of security of the 
> system relies on proof of the randomness of the pad. Which takes us back 
> to square one.

I think your ``square one'' is that no system is provably secure.
This denies the work of various thinkers who have written definitions
and proofs.  A proof is usually work of mathematical nature, not of
engineering nature.  Randomness is assumed in all of these proofs, so
there is not a single step in them that's flawed in any way.

So I think your position is that the assumption of randomness is not a
good idea.  You seem to rather prefer to assume that randomness
doesn't exist.  But that's just another assumption.  And it's not an
interesting one.  It destroys a lot of good work.

Why is randomness assumed?  We can't calculate without it.  For
instance, what's the probability of getting a 6 in a fair die?  It's
1/6.  But that's not true in your choice of assumptions because you
reject the assumption of randomness.  What do you get as a result?  I
think none---you wouldn't have a model to work with.

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

What about the practical world?  We have enough randomness to run the
entire world as it is currently done despite the accidents we've had
and could still have.  So I don't think it's a good idea to say that
we don't have provably secure systems because someone may have
criticisms with respect to the quality of random number generators: we
have various systems that satisfy the definition of provably secure.

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Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-28 21:16 +0000
  Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-28 23:10 +0000
    Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-03-29 11:50 +0000
      Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-29 15:05 +0000
        Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-29 12:58 -0400
        Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-29 18:38 -0300
          Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-29 22:08 +0000
            Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-03-30 04:37 -0300
        Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-03-30 09:31 +1000
          Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-30 11:14 +0100
            Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-30 11:28 +0100
              Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-03-30 09:11 -0400
                Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Toaster <toaster@dne3.net> - 2025-04-04 20:16 -0400
                Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2025-04-04 20:56 -0400
                Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-05 02:13 +0000
                Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-05 09:08 +0100
          Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-30 21:18 +0000
            Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-03-31 08:15 +1000
              Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-31 01:30 +0000
      Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-29 22:09 +0000
        Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2025-03-29 22:39 +0000
          Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-31 01:29 +0000
    Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Ethan Carter <ec1828@gmail.com> - 2025-03-29 20:25 -0300
      Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-30 04:58 +0000
        Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Ethan Carter <ec1828@gmail.com> - 2025-03-30 11:19 -0300
          Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-31 01:32 +0000
            Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Ethan Carter <ec1828@somewhere.edu> - 2025-04-01 10:25 -0300
              Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-04 19:05 +0000
          Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-31 01:34 +0000
            Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Ethan Carter <ec1828@somewhere.edu> - 2025-04-01 10:31 -0300
              Re: Truly Random Numbers On A Quantum Computer?? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-04 19:05 +0000

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