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Ruby Future Or?

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  Ruby Future Or? Robert Johns <piratej74@live.com> - 2011-05-15 06:31 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? John Feminella <johnf@bitsbuilder.com> - 2011-05-15 06:46 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-15 14:00 +0200
      Re: Ruby Future Or? Clifford Heath <no@spam.please.net> - 2011-05-15 22:57 +1000
        Re: Ruby Future Or? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-15 15:37 +0200
    Re: Ruby Future Or? Joel VanderWerf <joelvanderwerf@gmail.com> - 2011-05-15 11:08 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? Stu <stu@rubyprogrammer.net> - 2011-05-15 14:25 -0500
      Re: Ruby Future Or? Daniel Berger <djberg96@gmail.com> - 2011-05-16 16:20 -0500
        Re: Ruby Future Or? spiralofhope <spiralofhope_rubyml@lavabit.com> - 2011-05-16 16:49 -0500
          Re: Ruby Future Or? Thiel Chang <schang@wxs.nl> - 2011-05-16 17:17 -0500
            Re: Ruby Future Or? Daniel Berger <djberg96@gmail.com> - 2011-05-16 19:54 -0500
        Re: Ruby Future Or? Stu <stu@rubyprogrammer.net> - 2011-05-16 16:58 -0500
        Re: Ruby Future Or? Ralf Mueller <ralf.mueller@zmaw.de> - 2011-05-17 03:06 -0500
          Re: Ruby Future Or? Rimantas Liubertas <rimantas@gmail.com> - 2011-05-17 05:09 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? Vassilis Rizopoulos <eldestdamphyr@gmail.com> - 2011-05-16 02:40 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? spiralofhope <spiralofhope_rubyml@lavabit.com> - 2011-05-16 03:30 -0500
      Re: Ruby Future Or? Kirk Haines <wyhaines@gmail.com> - 2011-05-16 15:31 -0500
        Re: Ruby Future Or? Kirk Haines <wyhaines@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 07:28 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? Zach Dennis <zach.dennis@gmail.com> - 2011-05-16 17:10 -0500
      Re: Ruby Future Or? Ivan Cenov <i_cenov@botevgrad.com> - 2011-05-18 04:53 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-17 18:49 -0500
      Re: Ruby Future Or? Sam Duncan <sduncan@wetafx.co.nz> - 2011-05-17 19:04 -0500
      Re: Ruby Future Or? Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-05-17 19:49 -0500
      Re: Ruby Future Or? Steve Klabnik <steve@steveklabnik.com> - 2011-05-17 21:05 -0500
        Re: Ruby Future Or? David Jacobs <developer@wit.io> - 2011-05-17 22:34 -0500
      Re: Ruby Future Or? Christopher Dicely <cmdicely@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 01:21 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? Alexey Petrushin <axyd80@gmail.com> - 2011-05-18 18:21 -0500
    Re: Ruby Future Or? "Markus H." <shevegen@gmail.com> - 2011-05-19 12:51 -0500

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#4702

> The other thing is taste: I personally don't like the
> idea of giving space such a meaning in
> a programming language. That's one of the reasons,
> I dislike about Python.

Do you really think all those cascading 'ends' in Ruby (that you can 
never get right nor locate the missing 'end') are better?

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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#4703

Hrm, peach or nectarine, peach or nectarine ...

Sooo hard to choose which tasty nutritious stone fruit to eat. But once 
I do, the eaters of that OTHER tasty stone fruit are gonna hear about 
it, that's for darn tootin'.


On 18/05/11 11:49, 7stud -- wrote:
>> The other thing is taste: I personally don't like the
>> idea of giving space such a meaning in
>> a programming language. That's one of the reasons,
>> I dislike about Python.
> Do you really think all those cascading 'ends' in Ruby (that you can
> never get right nor locate the missing 'end') are better?
>

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#4706

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Chad Perrin <code@apotheon.net> wrote:
>
> I have no problem locating a missing "end".  In fact, the "end"s make it
> easier to track nesting, at least for me.  So, speaking only for myself,
> yeah . . . I do think they're "better".

'sides, when keeping methods short and sweet, you don't lose track of
the end of your method. Losing track of the end is a code smell, I'd
say.

Excuse the puns, which were only partially unintentional.

-- 
Phillip Gawlowski

Though the folk I have met,
(Ah, how soon!) they forget
When I've moved on to some other place,
There may be one or two,
When I've played and passed through,
Who'll remember my song or my face.

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#4711

[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

If you have more than two or three ends, your code sucks. It's a feature,
not a bug.

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#4715

I think that kind of canonical generalization isn't strictly true, *especially* if you work with lambdas or heavy algorithms. I'm a huge fan of abstraction, especially in Ruby and Lisp, but to say that code should never be nested this much is (by my standards) not a good generalization.
On Tuesday, 17 May 2011 at 10:05 pm, Steve Klabnik wrote: 
> If you have more than two or three ends, your code sucks. It's a feature,
> not a bug.
> 

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#4721

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:49 PM, 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The other thing is taste: I personally don't like the
>> idea of giving space such a meaning in
>> a programming language. That's one of the reasons,
>> I dislike about Python.
>
> Do you really think all those cascading 'ends' in Ruby (that you can
> never get right nor locate the missing 'end') are better?

I've never had much problem with getting the "ends" right in Ruby, but
I tend to frame blocks before filling them in. But, sure, sometimes I
would rather not have to deal with ending blocks.

In practice, I've found Ruby easier to refactor, incorporate from an
outside source, and work with in general than Python -- though Python
is slightly easier to write in the first place. So, yeah, between
Ruby's explicit delimiters and Python's significant whitespace, I find
Ruby's structure to work better. But its largely a subjective
difference of what works best for different people.

(Oddly, while I haven't done as much with Haskell as with Python, the
significant whitespace in Haskell hasn't bothered me as much as
Python's; I don't know if its that I just haven't done as much with
Haskell or if there is something in the interaction with the rest of
the syntax with the whitespace sensitivity that is less disruptive in
Haskell.)

But all these languages are pleasant to work with, for their various
quirks. I don't know about anyone else who has complained about
Python's whitespace sensitivity, but when I mention my dislike of it,
its not by way of saying Python sucks, just one feature of the
language that occasionally causes frustration that isn't present in
some other languages . Python also has positive features that aren't
mirrored in other languages, including some that are tightly linked to
significant whitespace (not needing to explicitly end blocks is a
convenience.)

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#4748

He-he, I guess Rails for Ruby is the same as JEE is for Java :)

And maybe in future it may be suppressed by JavaScript and similar stuff 
(like CoffeeScript) but definitely not with Python.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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#4773

Sure ruby has a future.

It is now better than 10 years ago and people used it 10 years ago too.

I also hope that matz continues to stay active, his vision still guides
ruby forward even though there are now other ruby-implementations out
there (Go, Rubinius, go!)

I myself do not use rails. I used Ruby before Rails existed too.

Rails got a lot of attraction and hype to ruby, but it is a completely
separate community. I am not part of it in any way and to me it makes no
difference whatsoever whether rails exists or not. I don't mean this in
a bad way either, it just does not matter to me at all. :)

Python became more popular than Ruby but I think this had to do with the
fact that Ruby really had CRAPPY documentation for a long time. Without
the Pickaxe, I am still wondering whether ruby could have been used
outside Japan at all ...

I myself don't really see Python as an enemy to Ruby. Both ruby and
python are very similar in many things, though there are plenty of
differences too, mostly in the philosophy. I prefer ruby's philosophy (I
started using ruby after trying it out, having read an interview with
matz - great interview by the way!)

What I am seeing since some months though is that Javascript is becoming
insanely popular. That is not only to jquery alone ...

I think ultimately Javascript is becoming so popular because of the
importance of WWW.

I myself really don't like Javascript too much. I think it is a mistake
to use so many different languages ... the WWW has become so much more
complex than 10 years ago.... :(

Javascript has an unfair advantage too. Every browser defaults to it...

I'd rather use Ruby and show Javascript the middle finger.

Or even better, I would like to use Ruby EVERYWHERE for me here when I
can - I want to target my browser without Javascript.... or I dream of a
VM where any language is possible. And I would stick to Ruby.

Unfortunately that is just wishful thinking.

Javascript is there to stay ...

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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