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Re: Hello

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  Re: Hello James Nathan <badlands_2004@yahoo.com> - 2011-04-12 08:27 -0500
    Re: Hello Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-12 09:29 -0500
      Re: Hello Vincent Manis <vmanis@telus.net> - 2011-04-12 10:08 -0500
      Re: Hello Martin DeMello <martindemello@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 11:11 -0500
        Re: Hello Sebastian Bachmann <sebastian.bachmann@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 11:14 -0500
        Re: Hello Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-12 11:15 -0500
          Re: Hello Martin DeMello <martindemello@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 12:36 -0500
    Re: Hello andrew mcelroy <sophrinix@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 12:52 -0500

#2683 — Re: Hello

No, I will try another program to learn to write a program. Ruby is just to hard to download, and to work with. thanks for all your help and understanding.
James Nathan

--- On Mon, 4/11/11, James Nathan <badlands_2004@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: James Nathan <badlands_2004@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hello
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 10:18 PM

I will just give up on Ruby and Ruby on Rails for now 
James Nathan

--- On Mon, 4/11/11, Vincent Manis <vmanis@telus.net> wrote:

From: Vincent Manis <vmanis@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Hello
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Date: Monday, April 11, 2011, 5:55 PM

On 2011-04-11, at 16:50, jake kaiden wrote:
>  these two are the ruby and rails base class api's, which will give you 
> information on the built in classes and how to use them:
> ruby-doc.org/core/
> api.rubyonrails.org/
> 
>  the "pragmatic guide" is also very good, and has examples and 
> tutorials:
> http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/
> 
>  this is also a decent introduction tutorial:
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/codecorn/ruby/basictutorial.htm
> 
>  and, of course - there is my personal favorite, the "poignant-guide":
> http://www.thinkingaloud.net/whys-poignant-guide-to-ruby/

These are all excellent books, and for those who really want to grok Ruby,  the Poignant Guide is excellent. But for somebody who is brand new to Ruby, and to programming in general, I'd still recommend Ullman's Ruby: Visual Quickstart Guide as a really good place to start. It does things like walking you through installing Ruby, for example. 

-- vincent

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#2687

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James Nathan <badlands_2004@yahoo.com> wrote:
> No, I will try another program to learn to write a program. Ruby is just to hard to download, and to work with.
> thanks for all your help and understanding.
> James Nathan

To put it bluntly: All easy(-ish) to use and learn scripting languages
follow the same path: download, install, use editor to write software.

Java, .NET, and C/++ are much more difficult for a newby to software
development to get running (assuming that you mostly use a computer to
get stuff done, and don't have much of a technical background).

With Ruby installed, all you need is a text editor to write your code
in, or an IDE (which presents its own learning curve, but can pay off
in the long run).

Anyway, how, in your opinion, can we make it easier for you to get
started? IOW, what do you expect to have, when you download a Ruby
installer?

-- 
Phillip Gawlowski

Though the folk I have met,
(Ah, how soon!) they forget
When I've moved on to some other place,
There may be one or two,
When I've played and passed through,
Who'll remember my song or my face.

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#2688

On 2011-04-12, at 07:29, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 3:27 PM, James Nathan <badlands_2004@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> No, I will try another program to learn to write a program. Ruby is just to hard to download, and to work with.
>> thanks for all your help and understanding.
>> James Nathan
> Anyway, how, in your opinion, can we make it easier for you to get
> started? IOW, what do you expect to have, when you download a Ruby
> installer?


I'm sorry we weren't able to give you what you needed, James. I do wish you luck in learning about programming. 

This does bring up an issue. I would like to see www.ruby-lang.org have a page `Totally new to programming', with appropriate resources; this page would be prominently linked to on the front page. 
It would have a paragraph or so on what Ruby is, along with what the installers do, along with a few resources that would help a total beginner get started. I can visualize many interactions like this.
 
  A: You're a programmer, can you tell me how I can learn programming?
  B: Try Ruby, it's a great way of getting started.
  A: What do I do? 
  B: Well, go to www.ruby-lang.org, and they have all the information you need. 

Unfortunately, that isn't really good enough for somebody who has no framework to see what all the various pieces are. So one page that says `here's what Ruby is, here's what an installer is, here's how you get Ruby running on your computer, and here's what you should read to get started with Ruby' would be a tremendous resource for beginners. I'm not claiming that the information isn't out there, just that it isn't in a form that a true beginner can use. 

When I used to do software engineering training for a company I used to work for, one of the more popular courses I ran was called `Programming for Non-Programmers', aimed at giving people exactly that framework. A lot of beginners get stuck there, and can't easily move forward without a bit of help. 

-- vincent

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#2690

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Phillip Gawlowski
<cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Anyway, how, in your opinion, can we make it easier for you to get
> started? IOW, what do you expect to have, when you download a Ruby
> installer?

He does raise a good point - it would be nice to have a classic 3 pane
IDE (files, program text, output window) that bundled a copy of ruby
in an all-in-one installer, so that you just launched it, typed in
some code, ran it, and saved it when you were happy with it. It
needn't be very powerful in the grand scheme of things, just trivial
to install and run "hello world" from.

martin

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#2691

[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

Are you working with Windows?

() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
On Dienstag, 12. April 2011 at 18:11, Martin DeMello wrote: 
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Phillip Gawlowski
> <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Anyway, how, in your opinion, can we make it easier for you to get
> > started? IOW, what do you expect to have, when you download a Ruby
> > installer?
> 
> He does raise a good point - it would be nice to have a classic 3 pane
> IDE (files, program text, output window) that bundled a copy of ruby
> in an all-in-one installer, so that you just launched it, typed in
> some code, ran it, and saved it when you were happy with it. It
> needn't be very powerful in the grand scheme of things, just trivial
> to install and run "hello world" from.
> 
> martin
> 

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#2692

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Martin DeMello <martindemello@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> He does raise a good point - it would be nice to have a classic 3 pane
> IDE (files, program text, output window) that bundled a copy of ruby
> in an all-in-one installer, so that you just launched it, typed in
> some code, ran it, and saved it when you were happy with it. It
> needn't be very powerful in the grand scheme of things, just trivial
> to install and run "hello world" from.

So, a package like NetBeans 6.9, then, which includes an IDE (I don't
think that a total newby to programming should have to deal with a
full fledged IDE, though, considering the mental overhead *that*
introduces), and a JRuby runtime, all in one installer.

-- 
Phillip Gawlowski

Though the folk I have met,
(Ah, how soon!) they forget
When I've moved on to some other place,
There may be one or two,
When I've played and passed through,
Who'll remember my song or my face.

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#2696

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Phillip Gawlowski
<cmdjackryan@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Martin DeMello <martindemello@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> He does raise a good point - it would be nice to have a classic 3 pane
>> IDE (files, program text, output window) that bundled a copy of ruby
>> in an all-in-one installer, so that you just launched it, typed in
>> some code, ran it, and saved it when you were happy with it. It
>> needn't be very powerful in the grand scheme of things, just trivial
>> to install and run "hello world" from.
>
> So, a package like NetBeans 6.9, then, which includes an IDE (I don't
> think that a total newby to programming should have to deal with a
> full fledged IDE, though, considering the mental overhead *that*
> introduces), and a JRuby runtime, all in one installer.

Yep, though NetBeans is way overkill for the task. Something small and
ruby-focused would be ideal (though since the OP asked for rails as
well, maybe NetBeans or Eclipse with a few ruby and rails plugins
really would be the better way to go). Here's the sort of feature list
I have in mind:

1. A metainstaller that installs ruby (I'm thinking RVM on linux and
the one-click installer on windows) and the IDE
2. The IDE will be preconfigured with the ruby and gem paths that the
installer installs into
3. A GUI for the common gem commands (install/uninstall/list
installed/search remote)
4. A "run" button, with output pane.
5. A file pane listing the contents of the current working directory
(so that the user can see what 'require_relative' can access)
6. A plugin architecture that allows frameworks like rails to supply
plugins that
6a. generate a project skeleton
6b. augment the "run" button as needed (in rails's case, for example,
starting up the webserver and/or reloading all the code)

The common view of an IDE is as something that helps people with
*language* features, but I think an even bigger win for a newcomer is
something that helps setup and maintain an environment within which he
can write code.

martin

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#2698

[Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:27 AM, James Nathan <badlands_2004@yahoo.com>wrote:

> No, I will try another program to learn to write a program. Ruby is just to
> hard to download, and to work with. thanks for all your help and
> understanding.
> James Nathan
>

Before you give up, checkout
http://tryruby.org
It let's you try out ruby in your web browser (firefox works the best right
now).
iPad support, safari, chrome, opera support is coming soon :-).

Respectfully,
Andrew McElroy
http://tryruby.org

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