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Re: First attempt at a Python prog (Chess)

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  Re: First attempt at a Python prog (Chess) Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 14:28 +0100
    Re: First attempt at a Python prog (Chess) Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 10:15 -0500
      Re: First attempt at a Python prog (Chess) Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-04-30 16:55 +0100

#70777 — Re: First attempt at a Python prog (Chess)

On 2013-02-15 05:05:27 +0000, Rick Johnson said:

> On Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:48:10 AM UTC-6, Chris Hinsley wrote:
> 
>> Is a Python list as fast as a bytearray?
> 
> Why would you care about that now? Are you running this code on the 
> Xerox Alto? Excuse me for the sarcasm but your post title has perplexed 
> me:
> 
>  "First attempt at a Python prog (Chess)"Okay, but how does that translate to:
> "The fastest, most efficient, most brain fricked python code ever 
> released in the form of a game, that just happens to look an awful lot 
> like C source"?
>     
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimization_%28computer_science%29#When_to_optimize 
> 
> 
> Why bother to use Python if what you really want to write is C code? If 
> you want to write good code (not just python), you need to write code 
> that is maintainable. Yes i KNOW, this is just some stupid chess game, 
> but i can assure you that this style of code is only going to harm your 
> evolution. This code is obfuscated at best and BF'ed at worst. And 
> forget about the algorithms for now, the first problems to address are 
> superficial.
> 
> First of all your naming conventions suck. You've used the "interface" 
> style for every function in this game so i can't /easily/ eyeball parse 
> the /real/ interface functions from the helper functions -- and i'm not 
> going to even try, because i don't read ugly code! Try to learn the 
> Python style guide as soon as you can (In particular pay attention to 
> naming conventions):
> 
>  http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
> 
> Secondly this game could benefit from some OOP paradigm (not sure if 
> are familiar with OOP or not???). But don't go bat-crazy with OOP! You 
> don't need an object to represent /every/ single piece on the board 
> (That would be nuts!). You need just enough OOP to encapsulate the data 
> and create a proper interface.
> A good litmus test is based on the "three little bears":
> 
>  "Papa bears bed is too hard"
> 
> A hard utilization of paradigms wields too little OOP and therefore 
> ends up being too difficult (aka: "hard") to maintain because there is 
> no logical interface; just a massive collection of functions stuffed 
> into global space until BF reaches critical mass and you're forced to 
> do a complete re-write! (Of course sometimes you don't need OOP at all, 
> just interface)
>  "Mama bears bed is too soft"
> 
> A soft utilization of paradigms wields too much OOP whereby you are 
> surrounded by big FAT objects which are smothering you to death, and 
> they smell because they cannot properly wash themselves between the 
> rolls of fat.
> 
>  "but baby bears is just right"
> Ahhh, the blissful comfort of a paradigm utilization that is "just 
> right". This is where your code should be, you want a level of OOP 
> usage that is "just right" for the occasion; not any more, not any less.
> ## START EXAMPLE CODE ##
> class GameBoard(???):
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.board = self._createBoard()
>            def __str__(self):
>         """Override:"""
>         # return a string represention of the board
>         # suitable for writing to stdout
>            def _createBoard(self):
>         """Internal:"""
>         self.board = [blah]
>           def make_move(self, piece, vector):
>         """Interface: move a game piece based on vector"""
>         # Find and move the piece. Whether the pieces
>         # are objects or not doesn't matter.
>        class GamePiece(object):
>     def __init__(self, typename, color):
>         self.typeName = typeName
>         self.color = color
>         self.captureFlag = self._computeFlag()
> 
> 
> def main():
>     board = Board()
>     playing = True
>     while playing is not False
>         i = input('PieceName - MoveVec:')
>         n, v = parse(i)
>         result = board.make_move(n, v)
>         if result == 'GameOver':
>             playing = False
>         else:
>             # clear the stdout
>             str(board)
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__:
>     main()
> ## END EXAMPLE CODE ##
> 
> And now you have the added benefit of exporting the objects for use elsewhere.

Wow, such vitriol for such a simple bear to cope with !

Maybe Papa bear would like to try some humility !

This was my very first Python prog, and my first chess prog and my 
attempt to learn somthing about Generators ! Do youtself a favour and 
leave the Python comunity for the good of the language !

Chris

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#70782

On 4/30/14 8:28 AM, Chris Hinsley wrote:
> On 2013-02-15 05:05:27 +0000, Rick Johnson said:
>>
>> First of all your naming conventions suck. You've used the "interface"
>> style for every function in this game so i can't /easily/ eyeball
>> parse the /real/ interface functions from the helper functions -- and
>> i'm not going to even try, because i don't read ugly code! Try to
>> learn the Python style guide as soon as you can (In particular pay
>> attention to naming conventions):

> Wow, such vitriol for such a simple bear to cope with !
>
> Maybe Papa bear would like to try some humility !
>
> This was my very first Python prog, and my first chess prog and my
> attempt to learn somthing about Generators ! Do youtself a favour and
> leave the Python comunity for the good of the language !
>
> Chris
>

Chris, you might want to try another list:

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor


The folks on this list are friendly, but tough. They are not generally 
arrogant, but many of them are experts (or core python developers) and 
most of them are worth listening to. The list mentioned above is for 
folks who are learning python and who have basic questions or want basic 
clarifications.   (they are gentler too)    :)


marcus

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#70783

On 2014-04-30 16:15, Mark H Harris wrote:
> On 4/30/14 8:28 AM, Chris Hinsley wrote:
>> On 2013-02-15 05:05:27 +0000, Rick Johnson said:
>>>
>>> First of all your naming conventions suck. You've used the "interface"
>>> style for every function in this game so i can't /easily/ eyeball
>>> parse the /real/ interface functions from the helper functions -- and
>>> i'm not going to even try, because i don't read ugly code! Try to
>>> learn the Python style guide as soon as you can (In particular pay
>>> attention to naming conventions):
>
>> Wow, such vitriol for such a simple bear to cope with !
>>
>> Maybe Papa bear would like to try some humility !
>>
>> This was my very first Python prog, and my first chess prog and my
>> attempt to learn somthing about Generators ! Do youtself a favour and
>> leave the Python comunity for the good of the language !
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> Chris, you might want to try another list:
>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>
> The folks on this list are friendly, but tough. They are not generally arrogant,
> but many of them are experts (or core python developers) and most of them are
> worth listening to. The list mentioned above is for folks who are learning
> python and who have basic questions or want basic clarifications.   (they are
> gentler too)    :)

It's also worth noting that Rick Johnson is a well-known troll here and *not* 
representative of this group. He was deliberately insulting Chris, not being 
"tough" but helpful. He is not worth listening to. He is to be killfiled and 
ignored. Chris, I'm sorry you ran into him on your first introduction to this 
community.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco

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