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Groups > comp.lang.python > #70045 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lalitha Prasad K <lalithaprasad@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-04-10 21:24 +0530 |
| Last post | 2014-04-11 09:35 -0500 |
| Articles | 8 on this page of 48 — 15 participants |
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Teaching python to non-programmers Lalitha Prasad K <lalithaprasad@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 21:24 +0530
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers pete.bee.emm@gmail.com - 2014-04-10 10:53 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-10 19:36 +0100
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers pete.bee.emm@gmail.com - 2014-04-10 13:52 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2014-04-10 23:40 +0100
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 20:17 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 13:59 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 21:37 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 15:11 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2014-04-11 06:34 +0100
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 15:42 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-04-11 10:46 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 21:01 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-04-11 11:48 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 22:42 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 22:54 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 16:01 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-11 11:36 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 16:00 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-11 11:34 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Paul Rudin <paul.nospam@rudin.co.uk> - 2014-04-11 12:46 +0100
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-11 11:59 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-04-11 07:39 -0500
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 22:50 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 11:19 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-12 01:45 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-04-14 16:13 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-04-14 00:59 -0600
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 23:39 -0600
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-11 10:07 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 20:17 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 15:54 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-11 09:37 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-11 07:09 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 17:19 +1000
Re: Interleaved vs. top-posting Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-04-11 07:44 -0500
Re: Interleaved vs. top-posting Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-04-12 07:28 +0100
Ostracising bad actors (was: Teaching python to non-programmers) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-04-11 13:28 +1000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers pete.bee.emm@gmail.com - 2014-04-11 13:20 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 17:50 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> - 2014-04-13 23:51 +0100
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-14 00:54 +0100
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-04-14 00:20 +0000
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-14 08:32 +0100
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-04-11 14:43 +0100
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 09:12 -0500
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 11:24 -0700
Re: Teaching python to non-programmers Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-04-11 09:35 -0500
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| From | "Rhodri James" <rhodri@wildebst.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-13 23:51 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <op.xd91rgqj5079vu@gnudebeest> |
| In reply to | #70165 |
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:20:05 +0100, <pete.bee.emm@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:40:22 PM UTC-7, Rhodri James wrote: >> It's called irony, and unfortunately Mark is reacting to an >> all-to-common >> situation that GoogleGroups foists on unsuspecting posters like >> yourself. > > People who say "I can't be bothered to correct this" while posting a > wise a$$ correction are just trolling, probably not funny in real life > either. I think if you're going to wise off than be witty about it, > otherwise just a terse reference to a link. 99% of the time, Mark is the one to make a brief comment with the link I gave you. And often gets roundly condemned for daring to suggest that GG is not a shining beacon of perfection, for clearly the rest of us are complaining out of jealousy. See my previous comments about straws and camels' backs. Also irony. > At any rate, my original point stands. You're not teaching on planet > Vulcan. Better to teach things in an odd order if that helps motivates > your students. It's not like people in real life carefully examine all > available documentation before learning some piece of tech. Usually they > shrug and say "what's the worst that could happen", dive in, and roll > with the consequences%10. Since "the worst that could happen" with some of the kit I've worked on is that I kill people, I have to disagree. Some flexibility is good, but if you want to understand how something works you do need to go through it in a logical order. Otherwise you can end up knowing lots of bits but having no understanding of how they interact or hang together. That's fine if you want to learn how to write programs, but it's terrible if you want to become a programmer. -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-14 00:54 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.9235.1397433256.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #70199 |
On 13/04/2014 23:51, Rhodri James wrote: > On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:20:05 +0100, <pete.bee.emm@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:40:22 PM UTC-7, Rhodri James wrote: >>> It's called irony, and unfortunately Mark is reacting to an >>> all-to-common >>> situation that GoogleGroups foists on unsuspecting posters like >>> yourself. >> >> People who say "I can't be bothered to correct this" while posting a >> wise a$$ correction are just trolling, probably not funny in real life >> either. I think if you're going to wise off than be witty about it, >> otherwise just a terse reference to a link. > > 99% of the time, Mark is the one to make a brief comment with the link I > gave you. And often gets roundly condemned for daring to suggest that > GG is not a shining beacon of perfection, for clearly the rest of us are > complaining out of jealousy. See my previous comments about straws and > camels' backs. Also irony. > The world will now breath a sigh of relief as I've set up my Thunderbird filters to discard all of the double spaced crap that arrives from gg, hence the amount that I see to complain about will be minimised. This has the added advantage of discarding the blatant lies that our resident unicode expert sprouts about Python, but the powers that be deem fit not to take any action over. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
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| From | Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-14 00:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <534b29b5$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #70200 |
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 00:54:02 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > but the powers that be deem fit not > to take any action over. There is no Internet police. Which is a good thing, for if there were, this sort of criticism of the Internet police is exactly the sort of thing that would bring down their wrath onto you. -- Steven D'Aprano http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-14 08:32 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.9238.1397460760.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #70201 |
On 14/04/2014 01:20, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 00:54:02 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > >> but the powers that be deem fit not >> to take any action over. > > There is no Internet police. Which is a good thing, for if there were, > this sort of criticism of the Internet police is exactly the sort of > thing that would bring down their wrath onto you. > I've been known on the odd occasion to get my bottom smacked. The full wrath is reserved for Greek internet experts. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
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| From | Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-11 14:43 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.9203.1397223806.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #70063 |
On 10/04/2014 21:52, pete.bee.emm@gmail.com wrote: > >> >> Just awesome, not only do we have double line spacing and single line >> >> paragraphs, we've also got top posting, oh boy am I a happy bunny :) >> >> I'll leave someone3 else to explain, I just can't be bothered. >> >> > > Do you get paid to be a jerk, or is it just for yuks? If the latter, you're not funny. > Lucky I didn't say anything about the dirty knife. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
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| From | Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-11 09:12 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <li8t94$1lm$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #70063 |
On 4/10/14 3:52 PM, pete.bee.emm@gmail.com wrote: > > Do you get paid to be a jerk, or is it just for yuks? If the latter, you're not funny. > Mark is the c.l.python resident margin police. Think of him as a welcome committee with an attitude. :)
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| From | Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-10 11:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <68f96703-4a7d-44ff-8a72-51cb6f145ca9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #70045 |
On Thursday, April 10, 2014 9:24:48 PM UTC+5:30, Lalitha Prasad K wrote: > Dear List > > Recently I was requested to teach python to a group of students of GIS (Geographic Information Systems). Their knowledge of programming is zero. The objective is to enable them to write plug-ins for GIS software like QGIS and ArcGIS. It would require them to learn, besides core python, PyQt, QtDesigner. So my plan is to teach them core python, PyQt, Qt Designer, in that order. A kind of "bottom up approach". But the students seem to feel that I should use "top down approach". That is, show them how to write a plug-in, then PyQt and Qt Designer and then enough of python so they can handle the above. I don't think, that is possible or a good idea. But I would like to know, if there are any other approaches. > > > Thanks and Regards Theres a Mulla Nassr Eddin story: Villagers A and B had a dispute. They went to Mulla. A gave his harangue for a while... Mulla: You are right! The B came and gave his story Mulla (to B) You are right Mulla's wife (scratching her head): But Mulla?! Both cant be right?!?! Mulla: You are right. When you are a teacher you have to learn to say "Yes Yes!" to all sorts of demands -- from curriculum, boards, colleagues, and of course students And then keep on doing what you know is right! I have some writings on the stupidities of CS edu establishment http://blog.languager.org/2011/02/cs-education-is-fat-and-weak-1.html and following
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| From | Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-04-11 09:35 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mailman.9205.1397226915.18130.python-list@python.org> |
| In reply to | #70045 |
On 4/10/14 10:54 AM, Lalitha Prasad K wrote:
> Dear List
>
> Recently I was requested to teach python to a group of students of GIS
> (Geographic Information Systems).
Adults? ... what age ranges?
> Their knowledge of programming is
> zero. The objective is to enable them to write plug-ins for GIS software
> like QGIS and ArcGIS.
Its a fabulous idea. Integrating disciplines is the correct approach
to computer science education in my opinion.
From day one (and yes I was there on day one) computer science knows
nothing about the insurance industry, and underwriters know nothing
about programming. The way to get these two groups together is to
integrate comp sci education with underwriting.
> It would require them to learn, besides core
> python, PyQt, QtDesigner. So my plan is to teach them core python, PyQt,
> Qt Designer, in that order. A kind of "bottom up approach".
Beautiful.
> But the
> students seem to feel that I should use "top down approach". That is,
> show them how to write a plug-in, then PyQt and Qt Designer and then
> enough of python so they can handle the above.
The phrase "just enough python" is almost possible. I am working on
a project I call SimplyPy that has this same goal in mind; but I'm not
finished yet. But the idea is to boil the galaxy of python down to a
small solar system with a couple of planets. If these cats are in their
early twenties, no problem. If they really are "non programmers" it will
be easier because they come to the table teachable. I would rather have
twenty students "tabula rosa" than having one student who thinks they
already know everything.
marcus
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