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Groups > comp.lang.python > #20474 > unrolled thread

[semi OT]: Smartphones and Python?

Started byMartin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com>
First post2012-02-15 20:58 +0000
Last post2012-02-19 00:41 +0100
Articles 6 on this page of 26 — 11 participants

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  [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Martin Schöön <martin.schoon@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 20:58 +0000
    Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-02-15 23:17 +0000
    Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-15 15:36 -0800
    Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? geremy condra <debatem1@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 18:19 -0800
      Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-15 18:38 -0800
      Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-15 18:38 -0800
        Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 20:26 -0700
          Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-16 06:53 -0800
          Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-16 06:53 -0800
            Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 08:22 -0700
              Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-16 17:38 +0000
                Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-16 17:50 +0000
                Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 18:45 -0700
              Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-16 21:25 -0800
                Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 18:51 -0700
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-17 20:51 -0800
                    Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 23:05 -0600
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-17 20:51 -0800
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-19 00:45 +0100
                Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> - 2012-02-19 04:46 +1100
                Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 17:36 -0700
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-18 21:58 -0800
                  Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-18 21:58 -0800
                Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python? Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com> - 2012-02-20 12:53 +0100
              Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-02-16 21:25 -0800
              Re: [semi OT]: Smartphones and Python? Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-19 00:41 +0100

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#20600 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

FromMichael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com>
Date2012-02-18 17:36 -0700
SubjectRe: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?
Message-ID<mailman.5948.1329611821.27778.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#20536
On 02/18/2012 10:46 AM, Lie Ryan wrote:
> Android does have a full Linux experience; what it lacks is the GNU 
> experience. Unlike "normal" Linux distros, Android does not use GNU 
> userspace, instead it have its own userspace based on bionic, toolbox, 
> and dalvik. Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer's 
> experience.

The fact that RIM is porting Android to QNX would seem to contradict
your assertion that Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer
experience.  Have you developed for Android?  In what way do you
interact with Linux in your apps and APIs?  Can you make system calls?
How is Linux a core part of Android's user and developer experience?  I
know that Android does allow some integration of native code, so that
does meld Linux and Android somewhat.

>From a user's pov (non-rooted), there is nothing of Linux exposed.  I
just install apps, run them, and manipulate my files which are stored in
my sd card.  The fact that it's in /mnt/sdcard is completely hidden, as
are all files that support dalvik.  The OS could be Windows, iOS, or
whatever.  It doesn't matter because the platform is not defined by the
kernel but by the APIs that apps need to use to run on the platform,
just like in Python!  In fact in some ways calling Android "Linux" would
be similar to calling Java and the Sun JVM "Linux" or Python, "Linux"
just because it happens to run atop that kernel.  I have mentioned those
specifically because they are interpreted or virtual machines
themselves; the "binaries" run regardless of underlying CPU type, or
kernel type.

In my mind, the fact that Android runs on the Linux kernel is almost
entirely coincidental to Android's aims.  Google could have developed
their own kernel, but of course it's much cheaper to use Linux.  And of
course Dalvik is currently written to consume posix APIs from the kernel.

In my mind, and in my experience with Android, Linux is irrelevant.  In
fact continuing to call Android "Linux" might just be doing ourselves a
disservice.  In any case, saying that since it's linux, you can install
anything you want on it, such as a JVM, is neither useful or accurate.

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#20606 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

From88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com>
Date2012-02-18 21:58 -0800
SubjectRe: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?
Message-ID<mailman.5951.1329631115.27778.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#20600
在 2012年2月19日星期日UTC+8上午8时36分48秒，Michael Torrie写道：
> On 02/18/2012 10:46 AM, Lie Ryan wrote:
> > Android does have a full Linux experience; what it lacks is the GNU 
> > experience. Unlike "normal" Linux distros, Android does not use GNU 
> > userspace, instead it have its own userspace based on bionic, toolbox, 
> > and dalvik. Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer's 
> > experience.
> 
> The fact that RIM is porting Android to QNX would seem to contradict
> your assertion that Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer
> experience.  Have you developed for Android?  In what way do you
> interact with Linux in your apps and APIs?  Can you make system calls?
> How is Linux a core part of Android's user and developer experience?  I
> know that Android does allow some integration of native code, so that
> does meld Linux and Android somewhat.
> 
> >From a user's pov (non-rooted), there is nothing of Linux exposed.  I
> just install apps, run them, and manipulate my files which are stored in
> my sd card.  The fact that it's in /mnt/sdcard is completely hidden, as
> are all files that support dalvik.  The OS could be Windows, iOS, or
> whatever.  It doesn't matter because the platform is not defined by the
> kernel but by the APIs that apps need to use to run on the platform,
> just like in Python!  In fact in some ways calling Android "Linux" would
> be similar to calling Java and the Sun JVM "Linux" or Python, "Linux"
> just because it happens to run atop that kernel.  I have mentioned those
> specifically because they are interpreted or virtual machines
> themselves; the "binaries" run regardless of underlying CPU type, or
> kernel type.
> 
> In my mind, the fact that Android runs on the Linux kernel is almost
> entirely coincidental to Android's aims.  Google could have developed
> their own kernel, but of course it's much cheaper to use Linux.  And of
> course Dalvik is currently written to consume posix APIs from the kernel.
> 
> In my mind, and in my experience with Android, Linux is irrelevant. 

Do you have to write a touch screen device driver under 
any mobile phone requested by your boss?

If the current one is not suitable in the 
market entangled with law suites from other big corps,
do you have to chunk a clean implementation?


> In
> fact continuing to call Android "Linux" might just be doing ourselves a
> disservice.  In any case, saying that since it's linux, you can install
> anything you want on it, such as a JVM, is neither useful or accurate.

Check the Jython JRE lib. If it is not compatable under 
Android's system, then there are jobs to do in the JVM
maintainer in  Androids or some revised requests for
the Jython JRE library group.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20607 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

From88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com>
Date2012-02-18 21:58 -0800
SubjectRe: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?
Message-ID<27781830.3.1329631112403.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbne2>
In reply to#20600
在 2012年2月19日星期日UTC+8上午8时36分48秒，Michael Torrie写道：
> On 02/18/2012 10:46 AM, Lie Ryan wrote:
> > Android does have a full Linux experience; what it lacks is the GNU 
> > experience. Unlike "normal" Linux distros, Android does not use GNU 
> > userspace, instead it have its own userspace based on bionic, toolbox, 
> > and dalvik. Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer's 
> > experience.
> 
> The fact that RIM is porting Android to QNX would seem to contradict
> your assertion that Linux is a core part of Android's user and developer
> experience.  Have you developed for Android?  In what way do you
> interact with Linux in your apps and APIs?  Can you make system calls?
> How is Linux a core part of Android's user and developer experience?  I
> know that Android does allow some integration of native code, so that
> does meld Linux and Android somewhat.
> 
> >From a user's pov (non-rooted), there is nothing of Linux exposed.  I
> just install apps, run them, and manipulate my files which are stored in
> my sd card.  The fact that it's in /mnt/sdcard is completely hidden, as
> are all files that support dalvik.  The OS could be Windows, iOS, or
> whatever.  It doesn't matter because the platform is not defined by the
> kernel but by the APIs that apps need to use to run on the platform,
> just like in Python!  In fact in some ways calling Android "Linux" would
> be similar to calling Java and the Sun JVM "Linux" or Python, "Linux"
> just because it happens to run atop that kernel.  I have mentioned those
> specifically because they are interpreted or virtual machines
> themselves; the "binaries" run regardless of underlying CPU type, or
> kernel type.
> 
> In my mind, the fact that Android runs on the Linux kernel is almost
> entirely coincidental to Android's aims.  Google could have developed
> their own kernel, but of course it's much cheaper to use Linux.  And of
> course Dalvik is currently written to consume posix APIs from the kernel.
> 
> In my mind, and in my experience with Android, Linux is irrelevant. 

Do you have to write a touch screen device driver under 
any mobile phone requested by your boss?

If the current one is not suitable in the 
market entangled with law suites from other big corps,
do you have to chunk a clean implementation?


> In
> fact continuing to call Android "Linux" might just be doing ourselves a
> disservice.  In any case, saying that since it's linux, you can install
> anything you want on it, such as a JVM, is neither useful or accurate.

Check the Jython JRE lib. If it is not compatable under 
Android's system, then there are jobs to do in the JVM
maintainer in  Androids or some revised requests for
the Jython JRE library group.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20621 — Re: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?

FromJean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel@sequans.com>
Date2012-02-20 12:53 +0100
SubjectRe: [OT]: Smartphones and Python?
Message-ID<mailman.9.1329738831.3037.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#20536
Michael Torrie wrote:
>
> I do not understand what you are saying, or at least why you are saying
> this.  But I don't understand most of your posts.
>   
It's a bot. Add it to your kill file.

JM

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#20537

From88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com>
Date2012-02-16 21:25 -0800
Message-ID<mailman.5910.1329456365.27778.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#20514
在 2012年2月16日星期四UTC+8下午11时22分44秒，Michael Torrie写道：
> On 02/16/2012 07:53 AM, 88888 Dihedral wrote:
> > The law suites of JAVA Vitrtual Machine from Oracle
> > are famous now. But in 201X the JVM patents will be 
> > expired, thus it is not very urgent to chunk out a new jython now. Anyway just write codes that can be maintained and  ported to other languages and platforms
> > easily.
> 
> Umm what does this have to do with anything?
> 
> You claimed Jython is or will be available on Android. It's not and
> Jython isn't being ported to Dalvik and it has nothing to do with
> patents.  Android might use java a language, but the virtual machines
> are very different.  And no expired patents are going to change that
> fact.  Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

Android is a customized linux OS used in mobile phones.
I don't think any linux systm has to be locked by JAVA or any JVM to run applications.

The memory systems in mobile phones are different from
PCs. This is the current situation in the consumer
electronics sector.

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#20599

FromMatej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com>
Date2012-02-19 00:41 +0100
Message-ID<jhpcpm$1o89$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
In reply to#20514
On 16.2.2012 16:22, Michael Torrie wrote:
> Android simply isn't going to run the JVM anytime soon.

In reality yes, but just technically speaking there is the project 
IcedRobot (http://www.icedrobot.org/), which is a fork of Android over 
OpenJDK.

Best,

Matěj

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