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Comparing strings from the back?

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  Comparing strings from the back? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-03 21:54 -0400
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-04 12:07 +1000
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-04 02:17 +0000
      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2012-09-03 21:56 -0700
      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-04 08:50 +0100
      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-04 18:32 +0200
        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-04 18:07 +0000
          Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-05 11:17 +0200
        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-05 07:59 +1000
          Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-05 11:24 +0200
            Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-05 11:43 +0200
              Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-05 14:30 +0000
                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-05 16:51 +0200
                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-05 16:24 +0000
                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-05 22:47 +0000
                      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-06 08:33 +0000
                        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-06 06:07 -0400
                          Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-07 04:06 +0000
                            Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-07 19:10 +0000
                              Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-08 00:55 +0000
                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-08 11:53 +0000
                                RE: Comparing strings from the back? "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-09-13 18:39 +0000
                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-13 15:37 -0400
                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-13 20:48 -0700
                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 00:46 -0400
                                      Re: Comparing strings from the back? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-13 21:54 -0700
                                        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 01:38 -0400
                                          Re: Comparing strings from the back? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-13 23:06 -0700
                                            Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 04:03 -0400
                                              Re: Comparing strings from the back? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 01:20 -0700
                                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 04:53 -0400
                                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 03:26 -0700
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 07:36 -0400
                                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-14 10:16 +0000
                                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 07:43 -0400
                                                RE: Comparing strings from the back? "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-09-14 22:43 +0000
                                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 23:10 -0400
                                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 18:11 -0700
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-17 14:05 +1000
                                                      Re: Comparing strings from the back? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2012-09-16 23:06 -0700
                                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-09-17 13:35 -0700
                                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2012-09-18 09:14 +1000
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-09-18 08:12 -0700
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-18 11:55 -0400
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-18 11:59 -0400
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-18 12:17 -0400
                                                      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-19 00:47 +0000
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-19 02:20 +1000
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-18 16:40 -0400
                                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-19 00:48 +0100
                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-13 20:53 +0100
                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-13 17:06 -0400
                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-14 03:39 +0000
                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-14 14:15 +1000
                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-13 22:17 +0100
                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dwight Hutto <dwightdhutto@gmail.com> - 2012-09-13 17:35 -0400
                                RE: Comparing strings from the back? "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-09-14 21:32 +0000
                            Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-07 19:40 +0000
                            Re: Comparing strings from the back? Gelonida N <gelonida@gmail.com> - 2012-09-08 17:52 +0200
                              Re: Comparing strings from the back? Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-10 08:59 +0000
                                Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-10 13:45 +0000
                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-10 14:06 +0000
                                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-11 09:51 +0000
                                      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-11 11:55 -0400
                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-11 00:26 +1000
                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-10 14:32 +0000
                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-10 14:43 +0000
                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-11 00:56 +1000
                                  Re: Comparing strings from the back? Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-09-11 09:41 +0000
                        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-06 12:04 +0100
                          Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steve Howell <showell30@yahoo.com> - 2012-09-14 17:51 -0700
                        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-06 08:13 -0400
                          Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-06 22:29 +1000
                        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-06 15:43 +0200
                          Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-06 10:23 -0400
                            Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-06 16:33 +0200
                            Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-06 16:42 +0200
                              Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-09-06 11:54 -0400
                          Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-06 16:34 +0200
                        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Gelonida N <gelonida@gmail.com> - 2012-09-08 17:50 +0200
                    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-06 15:37 +0200
                      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-07 00:39 +1000
                        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-06 17:36 +0200
                          Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-06 17:44 +0200
                        Re: Comparing strings from the back? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-09-07 04:07 +0000
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-09-04 01:13 -0400
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-09-04 08:56 +0100
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2012-09-04 11:58 +0200
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Neil Hodgson <nhodgson@iinet.net.au> - 2012-09-05 12:18 +1000
      Re: Comparing strings from the back? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2012-09-05 03:39 +0100
      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-09-04 22:48 -0400
      Re: Comparing strings from the back? Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2012-09-05 16:33 +0200
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2012-09-05 10:29 +0200
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-09-05 18:33 +1000
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2012-09-05 11:48 +0200
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2012-09-05 17:45 +0200
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dan Goodman <dg.gmane@thesamovar.net> - 2012-09-10 18:07 +0200
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-10 16:33 +0000
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dan Goodman <dg.gmane@thesamovar.net> - 2012-09-10 19:32 +0200
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Dan Goodman <dg.gmane@thesamovar.net> - 2012-09-10 19:44 +0200
    Re: Comparing strings from the back? Oscar Benjamin <oscar.j.benjamin@gmail.com> - 2012-09-10 21:52 +0000

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#28720

On 2012-09-08, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2012 19:10:16 +0000, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>
>> On 2012-09-07, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>
>> wrote:
>> <snip>
>> 
>> Would you say, then, that dict insertion is O(N)?
>
> Pedantically, yes. 
>
> But since we're allowed to state (or even imply *wink*) whatever 
> assumptions we like, we're allowed to assume "in the absence of 
> significant numbers of hash collisions" and come up with amortized O(1) 
> for dict insertions and lookups.
>
> (Provided, of course, that your computer has an infinite amount of 
> unfragmented memory and the OS never starts paging your dict to disk. 
> Another unstated assumption that gets glossed over when we talk about 
> complexity analysis -- on real world computers, for big enough N, 
> *everything* is O(2**N) or worse.)
>
> Big Oh analysis, despite the formal mathematics used, is not an exact 
> science. Essentially, it is a way of bringing some vague order to hand-
> wavy estimates of complexity, and the apparent mathematical rigour is 
> built on some awfully shaky foundations. But despite that, it actually is 
> useful.
>
> Coming back to strings... given that in any real-world application, you 
> are likely to have some string comparisons on equal strings and some on 
> unequal strings, and more importantly you don't know which are which 
> ahead of time, which attitude is less likely to give you a nasty surprise 
> when you run your code?
>
> "I have many millions of 100K strings to compare against other 100K 
> strings, and string comparisons are O(1) so that will be fast."
>
> "I have many millions of 100K strings to compare against other 100K 
> strings, and string comparisons are O(N) so that will be slow, better 
> find another algorithm."

True. I can't think of a situation where I've used string comparisons
directly in any text heavy code. Rather, I would use a dict or a set (or a
regex) and hash(str) is always O(N).

>
>
> Remember too that "for small enough N, everything is O(1)". Getting hung 
> up on Big Oh is just as much a mistake as ignoring it completely.
>
>

I can't think of a situation in my own work where O(N) vs O(1) string
comparisons would cause a significant problem (except perhaps in libraries
that I use but didn't write). However, I can find a number of cases where I
compare numpy.ndarrays for equality. For example, I found

if np.all(a == b):

in some code that I recently wrote. Although np.all() short-circuits, a==b
does not so that line forces O(N) behaviour onto a situation where the average
case can be better. Unfortunately numpy doesn't seem to provide a
short-circuit equals() function. array_equal() is what I want but it does the
same as the above. In future, I'll consider using something like

def cmparray(a, b):
  return a.shape == b.shape and a.dtype == b.dtype and buffer(a) == buffer(b)

to take advantage of (what I assume are) short-circuit buffer comparisons.

>> Since string comparison is only useful if the strings can be equal or
>> unequal, the average case depends on how often they are equal/unequal as
>> well as the average complexity of both. For random strings the frequency
>> of equal strings decreases very fast as N increases so that the
>> comparison of random strings is O(1).
>
> But that is not an upper bound, and Big Oh analysis is strictly defined 
> in terms of upper bounds.

It is an upper bound, but it is an upper bound on the *expectation value*
assuming a particular distribution of inputs, rather than an upper bound on
all possible inputs.

>>> (I'm talking about the average here -- the actual number of comparisons
>>> can range all the way up to N, but the average is <= 2.)

The average is actually bounded by 1 / (1 - p) where p is the probability that
two characters match. This bound can be arbitrarily large as p approaches 1 as
would be the case if, say, one character was much more likely than others. The
particular assumption that you have made p = 1/M where M is the number of
characters is actually the *smallest* possible value of p. For non-uniform
real data (English words for example) p is significantly greater than 1/M but
in a strict bounds sense we should say that 1/M <= p <= 1.

Oscar

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#29071

Dwight Hutto wrote:
> Why don' you just time it,eit lops through incrementing thmax input/

What? Without context I have no idea what this means.


Ramit

--


This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  

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#29072

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Prasad, Ramit
<ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> Dwight Hutto wrote:
>> Why don' you just time it,eit lops through incrementing thmax input/
>
> What? Without context I have no idea what this means.
>
>
> Ramit


Why don't you read the OP:


Let's assume you're testing two strings for equality.  You've already
done the obvious quick tests (i.e they're the same length), and you're
down to the O(n) part of comparing every character.

I'm wondering if it might be faster to start at the ends of the strings
instead of at the beginning?  If the strings are indeed equal, it's the
same amount of work starting from either end.  But, if it turns out that
for real-life situations, the ends of strings have more entropy than the
beginnings, the odds are you'll discover that they're unequal quicker by
starting at the end.

>

and this one from me:

First include len(string)/2, in order to include starting at the
center of the string, and threading/weaving by 2 processes out.

import timeit

 do the the rest, and see which has the fastest time.> --
>

Why don't take the time to read the OP, and ramit in your head?

Remember that you're in the middle of a conversation where the OP is
following as it goes along, so anyone reading the entire set of
postings should get it.

But for people who just want to jump in, and assume that the only
thing that matters is one piece, without reading the entire content of
the conversation, will always have something out of context for them.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

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#29108

On Sep 14, 5:37 am, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why don't take the time to read the OP, and ramit in your head?

Please, don't be a dick.

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#29112

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:48 PM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 14, 5:37 am, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why don't take the time to read the OP, and ramit in your head?
>
> Please, don't be a dick.
>
>

For telling him to ramit into his head that you should read the OP?




-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

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#29114

On Sep 14, 2:46 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For telling him to ramit into his head that you should read the OP?

Yes. I'm not sure if it was intentionally racist, but you come across
as a bit of a dwight supremacist.

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#29119

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:54 AM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 14, 2:46 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For telling him to ramit into his head that you should read the OP?
>
> Yes. I'm not sure if it was intentionally racist, but you come across
> as a bit of a dwight supremacist.

Please explain any logic whatsoever that would give you that conclusion.

Seems more like propaganda, and you're not very good at it.

I think you're referring to a play on words(ramit). Ain't I so punny.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

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#29124

On Sep 14, 3:39 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please explain any logic whatsoever that would give you that conclusion.

Well, this:

> I think you're referring to a play on words(ramit).

Using foreign names derogatively is a common tactic of the racist.

> Ain't I so punny.

Not really, no.

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#29138

>> I think you're referring to a play on words(ramit).
>
> Using foreign names derogatively is a common tactic of the racist.

Not really. But nice spin on my pun to make me look bad.

Keep trying, and maybe you'll come up with an insult/ propaganda
that's less obvious to the viewer that you're a liar, and a person who
couldn't end this with out throwing a blatant race card.

It's similar to if I said, this is real 'queer' of you to do ya big
pansy, and next you'll be calling me a homophobe.

Try harder, because no one would ever believe I was a racist, and if
they did, it's an uninformed decision based off of cherry picken
phrases out of context.

Very text book propaganda of you though.

-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

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#29141

On Sep 14, 6:04 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Using foreign names derogatively is a common tactic of the racist.
>
> Not really. But nice spin on my pun to make me look bad.

It actually *is* common behaviour of racists.

> It's similar to if I said, this is real 'queer' of you to do ya big
> pansy, and next you'll be calling me a homophobe.

Well, *yes*. Because your choice of that terminology as derogatory
shows you view it as derogatory.

> Try harder, because no one would ever believe I was a racist, and if
> they did, it's an uninformed decision based off of cherry picken
> phrases out of context.

Oh, so *now* context is important.

> Very text book propaganda of you though.

I don't think that word means what you think it does.

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#29143

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:20 AM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 14, 6:04 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Using foreign names derogatively is a common tactic of the racist.
>>
>> Not really. But nice spin on my pun to make me look bad.
>
> It actually *is* common behaviour of racists.
>

Not if there name is ramit. What if your name was john? I'd say I'll
be right back, I have to go take a crap on the john. It's a joke about
a name, not where it originates.

>> It's similar to if I said, this is real 'queer' of you to do ya big
>> pansy, and next you'll be calling me a homophobe.
>
> Well, *yes*. Because your choice of that terminology as derogatory
> shows you view it as derogatory.

No it was a loose analogy to show that he's just trying to use
anything he can say to slam me, and everyone can know it wasn't meant
as racist.

>> Try harder, because no one would ever believe I was a racist, and if
>> they did, it's an uninformed decision based off of cherry picken
>> phrases out of context.
>
> Oh, so *now* context is important.

Never said it wasn't. The whole conversation to me is the context, and
the OP usually follows it, and that's who it is usually intended for.

>> Very text book propaganda of you though.
>
> I don't think that word means what you think it does.

from wiki:

Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the
attitude of a community toward some cause or position. Propaganda is
usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order
to create the chosen result in audience attitudes.

He wants people to think I'm a racist, and you now want to see that in
me as well. It seems it has propagated, and that I know exactly what
it means.

And all over a silly post that had too little content, at the time, to
have what I said require any other posts, especially if the OP is
following the conversation.

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

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#29148

On Sep 14, 6:53 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not if there name is ramit. What if your name was john? I'd say I'll
> be right back, I have to go take a crap on the john. It's a joke about
> a name, not where it originates.

I'd recommend reading up on white privilege but I'm pretty sure it'd
be a wasted suggestion.

> >> It's similar to if I said, this is real 'queer' of you to do ya big
> >> pansy, and next you'll be calling me a homophobe.
>
> > Well, *yes*. Because your choice of that terminology as derogatory
> > shows you view it as derogatory.
>
> No it was a loose analogy

You can't use something as an example to support your case, and then
dismiss it as "a loose analogy" when it undermines it.

> he's just trying to use anything he can say to slam me everyone
> can know it wasn't meant as racist.

The "anything" I'm "using" is what *you* have said. I'm not trying to
"slam" you, I don't even know who you are. I just have a very short
fuse for rudeness and an even shorter one for racism, even if it *was*
intended in a "hyuck hyuck, I'm so punny" way. Ignorant racism is
still racism.

> The whole conversation to me is the context

And yet:

> He wants people to think I'm a racist, and you now want to see that in
> me as well. It seems it has propagated, and that I know exactly what
> it means.

Again, so much for context. There is no "he" and me, I'm the person
who made the original accusation and then followed up on it. That's
not propagation, so it's not propaganda.

Now, someone who starts a new thread to have a conversation *with
themselves* in some bizarre piece of performance art that seems
intended to brand as petty the *requests that he actually follow list
etiquette*...*that* is someone I'd consider a propagandist.

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#29156

> I'd recommend reading up on white privilege but I'm pretty sure it'd
> be a wasted suggestion.

Not really, I tend to like interdisciplinary study. But I'm a little
of everything if you like Darwin.
>
>> >> It's similar to if I said, this is real 'queer' of you to do ya big
>> >> pansy, and next you'll be calling me a homophobe.
>>
>> > Well, *yes*. Because your choice of that terminology as derogatory
>> > shows you view it as derogatory.
>>
>> No it was a loose analogy
>
> You can't use something as an example to support your case, and then
> dismiss it as "a loose analogy" when it undermines it.
>

How did it undermine it? It's the same thing, just transferred to
another well known group subject to violent bigotry.

I used a play on words in a response, and because his names foreign
that makes me a racist. There's no logic in that, other than to bring
me down, and use the worst thing you can say...playing the race card.



>> he's just trying to use anything he can say to slam me everyone
>> can know it wasn't meant as racist.
>
> The "anything" I'm "using" is what *you* have said. I'm not trying to
> "slam" you, I don't even know who you are. I just have a very short
> fuse for rudeness and an even shorter one for racism,
It wasn't rude in terms of these things that have been said about me.
Then lengthen your fuse, because I'm not a racist, I just play with
words a lot, including foreign names.
 even if it *was*
> intended in a "hyuck hyuck, I'm so punny" way. Ignorant racism is
> still racism.
Still trying to propagate a thought that I'm racist based on a guy who
for all I know is white, and uses the A.K.A ramit.

I have no freakin clue if ramit is an ethnic name or nickname...we're
on the internet tweedledick(badumchee, and hyuck,hyuck,hyuck)

>
>> The whole conversation to me is the context
>
> And yet:
>
>> He wants people to think I'm a racist, and you now want to see that in
>> me as well. It seems it has propagated, and that I know exactly what
>> it means.
>
> Again, so much for context. There is no "he" and me, I'm the person
> who made the original accusation and then followed up on it. That's
> not propagation, so it's not propaganda.
You're still trying to prove the point, when we all know I'm not a racist.

>
> Now, someone who starts a new thread to have a conversation *with
> themselves* in some bizarre piece of performance art that seems
> intended to brand as petty the *requests that he actually follow list
> etiquette*...*that* is someone I'd consider a propagandist.
> --

You mean like you taking over this thread to call me a racist, and go
on ad nauseam about it, when everyone can see what you're doing is
trying to prove a point you know is wrong?

Go back to debate 101, and flunk your professor if he passed you.


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

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#29147

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 01:20:53 -0700, alex23 wrote:
> On Sep 14, 6:04 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]


Please don't feed the trolls.


-- 
Steven

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#29157

 [snip]


> Please don't feed the trolls.

You're down here under the bridge with the rest of us trolls too, Steven. 24/7




-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

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#29193

Dwight Hutto wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:20 AM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 14, 6:04 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Using foreign names derogatively is a common tactic of the racist.
> >>
> >> Not really. But nice spin on my pun to make me look bad.
> >
> > It actually *is* common behaviour of racists.
> >
> 
> Not if there name is ramit. What if your name was john? I'd say I'll
> be right back, I have to go take a crap on the john. It's a joke about
> a name, not where it originates.

Okay, so maybe not racist but instead offensive juvenile humor?
I suppose that is better...

> 
> >> It's similar to if I said, this is real 'queer' of you to do ya big
> >> pansy, and next you'll be calling me a homophobe.

Um, yes! You are using 'queer' and 'pansy' as a derogatory comparison 
which falls under the definition for homophobia.

"Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, irrational fear, and hatred."
~ First two sentences on Wikipedia

> >
> > Well, *yes*. Because your choice of that terminology as derogatory
> > shows you view it as derogatory.

> 
> No it was a loose analogy to show that he's just trying to use
> anything he can say to slam me, and everyone can know it wasn't meant
> as racist.

Since I was unsure myself if you were trying to be offensive or racist,
I would disagree with "everyone can know it wasn't meant as racist".

> 
> >> Try harder, because no one would ever believe I was a racist, and if
> >> they did, it's an uninformed decision based off of cherry picken
> >> phrases out of context.
> >
> > Oh, so *now* context is important.
> 
> Never said it wasn't. The whole conversation to me is the context, and
> the OP usually follows it, and that's who it is usually intended for.
> 
[ snip ]

This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.  

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#29199

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Prasad, Ramit
<ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> Dwight Hutto wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:20 AM, alex2find-work-home/3 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sep 14, 6:04 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Using foreign names derogatively is a common tactic of the racist.
>> >>
>> >> Not really. But nice spin on my pun to make me look bad.
>> >
>> > It actually *is* common behaviour of racists.
>> >
>>
>> Not if there name is ramit. What if your name was john? I'd say I'll
>> be right back, I have to go take a crap on the john. It's a joke about
>> a name, not where it originates.
>
> Okay, so maybe not racist but instead offensive juvenile humor?
> I suppose that is better...

No, just shop talk. You hit me and hit I logarithmically hit back
..."butterfly effect".

>
>>
>> >> It's similar to if I said, this is real 'queer' of you to do ya big
>> >> pansy, and next you'll be calling me a homophobe.
>
> Um, yes! You are using 'queer' and 'pansy' as a derogatory comparison
> which falls under the definition for homophobia.
>
> "Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, irrational fear, and hatred."
> ~ First two sentences on Wikipedia
No, analogy, and a continued attack on a subject we know is propaganda.

>
>> >
>> > Well, *yes*. Because your choice of that terminology as derogatory
>> > shows you view it as derogatory.
>
>>
>> No it was a loose analogy to show that he's just trying to use
>> anything he can say to slam me, and everyone can know it wasn't meant
>> as racist.
>
> Since I was unsure myself if you were trying to be offensive or racist,
> I would disagree with "everyone can know it wasn't meant as racist".
>

If you're unsure if it was racist, you should err on the side of
caution. There are many nicknames on the net. That could be an ethnic
name, or an A.K.A.. Non-logical, pure speculation, that is biased that
your minority needs more anit-you.

Don't engage in conversations you're sure to lose.

>>
>> >> Try harder, because no one would ever believe I was a racist, and if
>> >> they did, it's an uninformed decision based off of cherry picken
>> >> phrases out of context.
>> >
>> > Oh, so *now* context is important.
>>
>> Never said it wasn't. The whole conversation to me is the context, and
>> the OP usually follows it, and that's who it is usually intended for.
>>


-- 
Best Regards,
David Hutto
CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com

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#29354

On Sep 15, 1:10 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Prasad, Ramit
> > Since I was unsure myself if you were trying to be offensive or racist,
> > I would disagree with "everyone can know it wasn't meant as racist".
>
> If you're unsure if it was racist, you should err on the side of
> caution.

If your comments are mistakable as racism, maybe *you* should be more
cautious and *not make them*.

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#29360

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:11 AM, alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 15, 1:10 pm, Dwight Hutto <dwightdhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Prasad, Ramit
>> > Since I was unsure myself if you were trying to be offensive or racist,
>> > I would disagree with "everyone can know it wasn't meant as racist".
>>
>> If you're unsure if it was racist, you should err on the side of
>> caution.
>
> If your comments are mistakable as racism, maybe *you* should be more
> cautious and *not make them*.

That applies to the most obvious examples (for instance, there's a
line in a 19th century opera that uses a six-letter word starting with
'n' to refer to a dark-skinned person - for obvious reasons, that line
is usually changed in modern performances, even though it was
descriptive and not offensive when the opera was written - like
referring to a Caucasian). However, there are many things which could
be misinterpreted as racist, and I would hate to see people leaned
hard on to make their speech entirely politically correct. Use common
sense, on both sides. Don't be offensive, and don't be offended.

ChrisA

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#29365

On Sep 17, 2:05 pm, Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would hate to see people leaned
> hard on to make their speech entirely politically correct. Use common
> sense, on both sides. Don't be offensive, and don't be offended.

While I would like to agree, this would require there to be no power
disparities between the parties involved, which isn't always the case.
I hate the term "politically correct", it always seems to be used in
an eye-rolling, "what a load of nonsense" way, probably because I
believe there's at least some validity in the Sapir/Whorf hypothesis
that language dictates thought.

If Ramit's name was Barbie and e was told to "get back to your dream
home" or some other guff, it would be quite rightly viewed as sexist,
whether intentional or not. Such behaviour has been called out on this
list in the past, and I'm genuinely surprised to see so little
reaction to this.

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