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Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer

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  Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 13:04 +0300
    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 05:08 -0600
      Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 17:18 +0300
        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 22:53 -0600
          Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 09:47 +0300
            Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-09 18:12 +1100
      Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 17:36 +0300
    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 15:55 +0000
      Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 19:04 +0300
        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 13:10 -0400
        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 19:29 +0000
          Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 01:52 +0300
            Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-08 19:57 -0400
            Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-09 01:33 +0000
              Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 11:24 +0300
                Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-09 09:44 +0100
                Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 14:45 +0000
                Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Piet van Oostrum <piet@vanoostrum.org> - 2013-10-09 14:36 -0400
                  Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-10 00:29 +0300
                    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 18:03 -0400
                    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-09 23:26 +0100
            Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-09 08:00 +0100
            Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 14:43 +0000
              Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 18:00 +0300
                Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 11:20 -0400
                Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-09 16:39 +0100
                Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 18:06 +0000
                  Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-09 19:28 +0100
                  Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2013-10-09 14:26 -0500
                  Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-09 20:40 +0100
                  Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-09 23:48 +0000
                    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-10 11:18 +1100
                    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-10 00:31 +0000
                      Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-10 01:10 +0000
                        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-10 12:28 +1100
                        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-10 06:21 +0100
                        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 22:36 -0700
                          Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-10 06:56 +0100
                          Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-10 17:01 +1100
                            Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-10 07:20 +0000
                          Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-10 07:18 +0000
                        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-10 10:50 +0200
                        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-10 13:42 +0000
                    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-10 11:43 +1100
                    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2013-10-09 20:58 -0400
                    Learning about HTTP [was: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer] Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2013-10-10 08:44 +0100
                    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-10-10 19:45 -0400
                    Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2013-10-10 19:48 -0400
                Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-10-09 18:06 +0000
      Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 20:30 +0300
        Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2013-10-08 13:47 -0400
          Re: Cookie gets changed when hit comes from a referrer Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-09 01:24 +0000

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#56519

On 09/10/2013 23:03, Joel Goldstick wrote:
>>
>> Expire is not the issue here, as i have it is working with no problem.
>> when i print the cookie expiration time is calculated properly.
>
>
>> Something else is going worng.
>>
> Indeed!
>

Well explained here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_error

-- 
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Most poems rhyme,
But this one doesn't.

Mark Lawrence

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#56474

On 08/10/2013 23:52, Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος wrote:

>
> Is there something i can try to isolate the problem and make it work?
>

As you are the problem why not try solitary confinement? :)

-- 
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Most poems rhyme,
But this one doesn't.

Mark Lawrence

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#56490

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 01:52:44 +0300, Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος wrote:

> Στις 8/10/2013 10:29 μμ, ο/η Denis McMahon έγραψε:

>> Have you checked the cookie jar in the browser to see what value the
>> cookie has? Is that the value you think it should have? Note that
>> checking the cookie jar is a browser topic, not a python topic, so if
>> you don't know how to do that you're going to have to find the right
>> place to ask, WHICH IS NOT HERE!

>> Ideally you need to check what the server thinks it's setting the
>> cooking to, what the browser thinks it received as the cookie, and what
>> the server gets back afterwards to work out where the error is
>> happening.

> Is there something i can try to isolate the problem and make it work?
> By whole counters project is based on cookie handling now....

See those last two paragraphs there that you quoted. You should have read 
them.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#56493

Στις 9/10/2013 5:43 μμ, ο/η Denis McMahon έγραψε:
> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 01:52:44 +0300, Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος wrote:
>
>> Στις 8/10/2013 10:29 μμ, ο/η Denis McMahon έγραψε:
>
>>> Have you checked the cookie jar in the browser to see what value the
>>> cookie has? Is that the value you think it should have? Note that
>>> checking the cookie jar is a browser topic, not a python topic, so if
>>> you don't know how to do that you're going to have to find the right
>>> place to ask, WHICH IS NOT HERE!
>
>>> Ideally you need to check what the server thinks it's setting the
>>> cooking to, what the browser thinks it received as the cookie, and what
>>> the server gets back afterwards to work out where the error is
>>> happening.
>
>> Is there something i can try to isolate the problem and make it work?
>> By whole counters project is based on cookie handling now....
>
> See those last two paragraphs there that you quoted. You should have read
> them.
>
ok so then tell me where i should ask this.

-- 
What is now proved was at first only imagined! & WebHost
<http://superhost.gr>

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#56496

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος
<nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> wrote:
> Στις 9/10/2013 5:43 μμ, ο/η Denis McMahon έγραψε:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 01:52:44 +0300, Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος wrote:
>>
>>> Στις 8/10/2013 10:29 μμ, ο/η Denis McMahon έγραψε:
>>
>>
>>>> Have you checked the cookie jar in the browser to see what value the
>>>> cookie has? Is that the value you think it should have? Note that
>>>> checking the cookie jar is a browser topic, not a python topic, so if
>>>> you don't know how to do that you're going to have to find the right
>>>> place to ask, WHICH IS NOT HERE!
>>
>>
>>>> Ideally you need to check what the server thinks it's setting the
>>>> cooking to, what the browser thinks it received as the cookie, and what
>>>> the server gets back afterwards to work out where the error is
>>>> happening.
>>
>>
>>> Is there something i can try to isolate the problem and make it work?
>>> By whole counters project is based on cookie handling now....
>>
>>
>> See those last two paragraphs there that you quoted. You should have read
>> them.
>>
> ok so then tell me where i should ask this.
>


I already told you where to learn about cookies.  Try that first.
People will be nicer to your questions if you show you are willing to
come prepared.  As to where to ask -- perhaps there is an http mailing
list.  Your code can't work if you don't know how cookies work.
-- 
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.com

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#56499

On 09/10/2013 16:00, Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος wrote:

> ok so then tell me where i should ask this.
>

Google, bing, duckduckgo, ask, yahoo ...

-- 
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Most poems rhyme,
But this one doesn't.

Mark Lawrence

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#56507

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 18:00:28 +0300, Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος wrote:

> Στις 9/10/2013 5:43 μμ, ο/η Denis McMahon έγραψε:
>> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 01:52:44 +0300, Νίκος Αλεξόπουλος wrote:
>>
>>> Στις 8/10/2013 10:29 μμ, ο/η Denis McMahon έγραψε:
>>
>>>> Have you checked the cookie jar in the browser to see what value the
>>>> cookie has? Is that the value you think it should have? Note that
>>>> checking the cookie jar is a browser topic, not a python topic, so if
>>>> you don't know how to do that you're going to have to find the right
>>>> place to ask, WHICH IS NOT HERE!

>>>> Ideally you need to check what the server thinks it's setting the
>>>> cooking to, what the browser thinks it received as the cookie, and
>>>> what the server gets back afterwards to work out where the error is
>>>> happening.

>>> Is there something i can try to isolate the problem and make it work?
>>> By whole counters project is based on cookie handling now....

>> See those last two paragraphs there that you quoted. You should have
>> read them.

> ok so then tell me where i should ask this.

In those two paragraphs I have told you what you need to do to isolate 
where your problem is occurring. If you don't know how to do that, then I 
commend to you the wealth of information that may be discovered using 
search engines. However, as we keep telling you, this group is not the 
right place to ask questions such as:

a) How do I see what's in my web browser's cookie jar?
b) How do I make my web server log the cookies it sends and receives?

For (a) you want information about your browser, not about python.
For (b) you want information about your web server, not about python.

Find the relevant forums and ask in them.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#56509

On 09/10/2013 19:06, Denis McMahon wrote:
>
> Find the relevant forums and ask in them.
>

Why am I thinking of this 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_Hole_in_My_Bucket ?

-- 
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Most poems rhyme,
But this one doesn't.

Mark Lawrence

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#56511

On 2013-10-09 19:28, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 09/10/2013 19:06, Denis McMahon wrote:
>> Find the relevant forums and ask in them.
> 
> Why am I thinking of this 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_Hole_in_My_Bucket ?

There's a bug in my program, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
There's a bug in my program, dear newsgroup a bug.

Then fix it, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, dear Nikos,
Then fix it, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, fix it.

With what shall I fix it, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
With what shall I fix it, dear newsgroup, with what?

The traceback, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, dear Nikos,
The traceback, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, traceback.

The problem's not Python, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
The problem's not Python, dear newsgroup, what now?

Try Google, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, dear Nikos,
Try Google, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, Google.

But what shall I query, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
But what shall I query, dear newsgroup, but what?

Some keywords, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, dear Nikos,
Some keywords, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, keywords.

I know it's off-topic, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
I know it's off-topic, dear newsgroup, but help...


I can see the similarity ;-)

-tkc

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#56514

On 09/10/2013 20:26, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2013-10-09 19:28, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> On 09/10/2013 19:06, Denis McMahon wrote:
>>> Find the relevant forums and ask in them.
>>
>> Why am I thinking of this
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_Hole_in_My_Bucket ?
>
> There's a bug in my program, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
> There's a bug in my program, dear newsgroup a bug.
>
> Then fix it, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, dear Nikos,
> Then fix it, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, fix it.
>
> With what shall I fix it, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
> With what shall I fix it, dear newsgroup, with what?
>
> The traceback, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, dear Nikos,
> The traceback, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, traceback.
>
> The problem's not Python, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
> The problem's not Python, dear newsgroup, what now?
>
> Try Google, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, dear Nikos,
> Try Google, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, Google.
>
> But what shall I query, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
> But what shall I query, dear newsgroup, but what?
>
> Some keywords, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, dear Nikos,
> Some keywords, dear Nikos, dear Nikos, keywords.
>
> I know it's off-topic, dear newsgroup, dear newsgroup,
> I know it's off-topic, dear newsgroup, but help...
>
>
> I can see the similarity ;-)
>
> -tkc
>

Great minds think alike? :)

-- 
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Most poems rhyme,
But this one doesn't.

Mark Lawrence

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#56521

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 18:06:05 +0000, Denis McMahon wrote:

> Find the relevant forums and ask in them.

In fairness to Nikos, that may not be an easy thing to do. I for one have 
*no idea* where to find an appropriate forum to learn about these sorts 
of web basics. comp.protocol.http doesn't exist :-)

I'm pretty sure that everyone here has been in this situation. We've 
pretty much all asked for recommendations "where is a good place to learn 
about X?", for some definition of X. That is a reasonable question, and 
"just google it" is *not* a reasonable answer, because search engines are 
not good at that sort of value judgement. Human beings are. And even the 
best of us have had days were we simply cannot come up with good search 
terms that find us what we need.

So, for the benefit of anyone, not just Nikos, who wants to learn about 
how browsers connect to web sites and how to run a web server, does 
anyone have any recommendation for tutorials, mailing lists, web forums 
or books which are suitable? Preferably things you have used yourself, 
and can personally vouch for being useful.

I'm pretty sure that *somebody* here has been in the position of needing 
to learn about running a website, and can point Nikos in the right 
direction (away from here). How did you learn? 

And if nobody is able, or willing, to answer? I've been in that position 
too, asking for help that nobody was able to give. It sucks, and you move 
on and do your best.


-- 
Steven

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#56523

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> So, for the benefit of anyone, not just Nikos, who wants to learn about
> how browsers connect to web sites and how to run a web server, does
> anyone have any recommendation for tutorials, mailing lists, web forums
> or books which are suitable? Preferably things you have used yourself,
> and can personally vouch for being useful.

Personally, what I find most useful is network-level tracing - if I
want to know what my web server's doing, I'll telnet to it (or, more
likely, use my MUD client) and look at exactly what it's sending; and
if I want to know what a browser's doing, I'll do the same (since my
MUD clients allow me to run them "backwards", listening rather than
connecting).

But that isn't for everyone, I'm aware of that.

ChrisA

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#56525

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 23:48:12 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 18:06:05 +0000, Denis McMahon wrote:
> 
>> Find the relevant forums and ask in them.
> 
> In fairness to Nikos, that may not be an easy thing to do. I for one
> have *no idea* where to find an appropriate forum to learn about these
> sorts of web basics. comp.protocol.http doesn't exist :-)

If Nikos wants to write programs that communicate using internet 
protocols, Nikos really needs to learn where internet protocols are 
defined, how to read and interpret those protocol definitions, and how to 
check that the data he's sending or receiving is the data that he thinks 
he's sending or receiving.

Just as, if Nikos wants to generate web pages using HTML markup, Nikos 
needs to learn where HTML markup is defined.

There's no easy path to this knowledge. For some of us, it's been a 30 or 
more year journey so far and we're still learning (I'm into year 36, 
having started at the age of 14 and turning 51 in seven weeks).

If Nikos can't even figure out the right queries to feed into a search 
engine to get started on such matters as looking at the cookie jar in a 
browser or enabling cookie logging on a server, then he probably 
shouldn't be trying to code at this level.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#56529

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 00:31:06 +0000, Denis McMahon wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 23:48:12 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 18:06:05 +0000, Denis McMahon wrote:
>> 
>>> Find the relevant forums and ask in them.
>> 
>> In fairness to Nikos, that may not be an easy thing to do. I for one
>> have *no idea* where to find an appropriate forum to learn about these
>> sorts of web basics. comp.protocol.http doesn't exist :-)
> 
> If Nikos wants to write programs that communicate using internet
> protocols, Nikos really needs to learn where internet protocols are
> defined, how to read and interpret those protocol definitions, and how
> to check that the data he's sending or receiving is the data that he
> thinks he's sending or receiving.

You can't seriously mean that everyone who runs a website has to become 
skilled at reading and interpreting the RFCs for "internet protocols". 
Which protocols? All the way down to TCP/IP?


> Just as, if Nikos wants to generate web pages using HTML markup, Nikos
> needs to learn where HTML markup is defined.
> 
> There's no easy path to this knowledge. For some of us, it's been a 30
> or more year journey so far and we're still learning (I'm into year 36,
> having started at the age of 14 and turning 51 in seven weeks).
> 
> If Nikos can't even figure out the right queries to feed into a search
> engine to get started on such matters as looking at the cookie jar in a
> browser or enabling cookie logging on a server, then he probably
> shouldn't be trying to code at this level.

Nikos Nikos Nikos... and what about me? If I asked you for a few pointers 
about a good place to learn about running a web site, would you tell me 
to fuck off too? I wonder what you are doing here, if you are so 
unwilling to share your hard-earned knowledge with others as you seem in 
this post. This attitude is not the Denis McMahon I'm used to.

Honestly, your response seems to me to be just a more verbose way of 
saying "RTFM n00b", and about as helpful. Speaking for myself, I don't 
want this forum to be the sort of place where that is considered an 
appropriate response, no matter how politely the dismissal is dressed up.

I'm here to help people, and yes, that even means Nikos. To give back to 
the community that helped me (and continues to help me). In my opinion, 
if we're going to tell people to RTFM the least we can do is point them 
at the right manual, and not just dismiss them by telling them to google 
it. I don't think that's too much to ask.

(On the other hand, it's okay to say "I don't know of any good forums for 
learning this stuff. Sorry mate, I can't help.")

I have no objection to encouraging people to read the fine manual, and I 
don't intend to be Nikos' (or anyone else's) unpaid full-time help desk 
and troubleshooter. But I do think it is simply unfair to treat him more 
harshly than we would others in the same position. If *anyone else* asked 
for help on these sorts of network and browser questions, we'd give them 
more constructive pointers than just "google it".

Nikos, are you reading this? This is what happens when you behave like a 
royal pain in the arse and annoy people. They stop wanting to help you. 
Be told. Learn from this. Don't repeat this mistake in the next forum. If 
you learn nothing else, learn that lesson.


-- 
Steven

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#56531

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 00:31:06 +0000, Denis McMahon wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 23:48:12 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 18:06:05 +0000, Denis McMahon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Find the relevant forums and ask in them.
>>>
>>> In fairness to Nikos, that may not be an easy thing to do. I for one
>>> have *no idea* where to find an appropriate forum to learn about these
>>> sorts of web basics. comp.protocol.http doesn't exist :-)
>>
>> If Nikos wants to write programs that communicate using internet
>> protocols, Nikos really needs to learn where internet protocols are
>> defined, how to read and interpret those protocol definitions, and how
>> to check that the data he's sending or receiving is the data that he
>> thinks he's sending or receiving.
>
> You can't seriously mean that everyone who runs a website has to become
> skilled at reading and interpreting the RFCs for "internet protocols".
> Which protocols? All the way down to TCP/IP?

Certainly not; but if he's run into trouble with cookies, I think it's
not too much to ask him to read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie
It has a lot of text, but quite a bit of it is likely to be of use.
Then there's links down the bottom to an RFC, to Mozilla, and so on,
which could also be of use. Half an hour spent reading there will pay
good dividends.

> ... I do think it is simply unfair to treat him more
> harshly than we would others in the same position. If *anyone else* asked
> for help on these sorts of network and browser questions, we'd give them
> more constructive pointers than just "google it".
>
> Nikos, are you reading this? This is what happens when you behave like a
> royal pain in the arse and annoy people. They stop wanting to help you.
> Be told. Learn from this. Don't repeat this mistake in the next forum. If
> you learn nothing else, learn that lesson.

Actually no, it's not unfair to treat him more harshly. What's unfair
is that he hasn't been banned, killfiled by everyone, or in some other
way completely cut off from assistance. It's just as unfair as the
mercy God shows to us. We're being extremely unjust in helping him...
he hasn't earned anything, he hasn't merited help, he's not paying us.
It's a gift, it's free service, and it's a privilege. Nikos, rejoice
in the unfair and inconceivably merciful state of this forum, and as
Steven says, learn from it and don't make the same mistake elsewhere.

(I've made that mistake myself, too. I've made myself a stench in the
nostrils of certain communities. It's not something you can't come
back from; it's part of life, part of learning.)

ChrisA

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#56538

On 10/10/2013 02:28, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> Half an hour spent reading there will pay
> good dividends.
>

That's been sadly lacking in all of these threads.  With responses 
coming back faster than a ball on the centre court at Wimbledon, it's 
hardly surprising that progress has been conspicious by its absence.

-- 
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Most poems rhyme,
But this one doesn't.

Mark Lawrence

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#56540

On Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:40:19 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> I have no objection to encouraging people to read the fine manual, and I 
> don't intend to be Nikos' (or anyone else's) unpaid full-time help desk 
> and troubleshooter. But I do think it is simply unfair to treat him more 
> harshly than we would others in the same position. If *anyone else* asked 
> for help on these sorts of network and browser questions, we'd give them 
> more constructive pointers than just "google it".

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-October/657221.html

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-October/657034.html

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#56542

On 10/10/2013 06:36, rusi wrote:
> On Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:40:19 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> I have no objection to encouraging people to read the fine manual, and I
>> don't intend to be Nikos' (or anyone else's) unpaid full-time help desk
>> and troubleshooter. But I do think it is simply unfair to treat him more
>> harshly than we would others in the same position. If *anyone else* asked
>> for help on these sorts of network and browser questions, we'd give them
>> more constructive pointers than just "google it".
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-October/657221.html
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-October/657034.html
>

I don't understand you point, please explain.

-- 
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Most poems rhyme,
But this one doesn't.

Mark Lawrence

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#56544

rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:40:19 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > If *anyone else* asked for help on these sorts of network and
> > browser questions, we'd give them more constructive pointers than
> > just "google it".

Someone who has so consistently demonstrated their unwillingness to
learn, and their persistent arrogance in flooding this forum with
demands for assistance, is quite deserving of curt “go and find out for
yourself, leave this forum alone” responses.

We are a, and should remain, an open and tolerant community. But the
persistently disrespectful actions of Nikos threaten the forum's value
and usefulness for everyone else. There are limits to how much
disruption and obstinacy this community should tolerate from a given
individual.

> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-October/657221.html
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-October/657034.html

Both of which got quite helpful responses: a brief, polite referral to
seek a specific discussion forum where their requests would be on topic.

-- 
 \         “If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all |
  `\    others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking |
_o__)                          power called an idea” —Thomas Jefferson |
Ben Finney

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#56551

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 17:01:25 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

> There are limits to how much disruption and obstinacy this community
> should tolerate from a given individual.

I think we are in violent agreement :-)

It's possible we disagree about where to draw the line, and whether 
persistent cluelessness counts as wilful disruption, but otherwise I'm 
not disagreeing with you.



-- 
Steven

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