Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #68718 > unrolled thread

Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.python

Contents

  Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 15:05 -0700
    Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 15:08 -0700
    Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-22 09:25 +1100
      Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 15:34 -0700
        Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 15:34 -0700
          Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-03-21 22:44 +0000
            Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 22:58 -0500
              Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-22 15:15 +1100
                Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 23:30 -0500
                  Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 23:36 -0500
                  Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-22 15:46 +1100
                    Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 23:59 -0500
                      Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-03-22 01:54 -0700
                        Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-03-22 10:54 +0000
                  Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-03-22 01:24 -0400
                    Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-22 09:50 +0000
                      Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-03-22 06:14 -0400
                  Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-22 16:32 +1100
                  Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-03-22 11:25 -0400
              Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-03-22 10:51 +0000
              Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-22 14:50 +0000
                Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-23 02:09 +1100
                  Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-03-23 01:07 +0000
        Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-03-22 09:42 +1100
          Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 15:50 -0700
      Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> - 2014-03-21 15:55 -0700
        Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-03-21 21:39 -0400
          Re: Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> - 2014-03-22 03:57 -0700

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#68718 — Python MSI not installing, log file showing name of a Viatnemese communist revolutionary

Hi everybody,

I need to install Python 3.4 final urgently, because my IDE stopped supporting Python 3.4 beta2, and I need it urgently to work.

I downloaded it, but the MSI won't install. It didn't work on both of my computers (Windows 7 64bit).

I managed to have the MSI dump data to log, file attached.

I couldn't help but notice this line in the log:

    The installer has encountered an unexpected error installing this package. This may indicate a problem with this package. The error code is 2726. The arguments are: HO_CHI~1|Ho_Chi_Minh

A Google search shows this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh

What the hell. Was python.org hacked by communists?

Please, I need to get back to work and I can't. 


Thanks,
Ram.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#68719

Sorry, couldn't attach the file, here's the log file:

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9697505

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:05:59 AM UTC+2, cool-RR wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> 
> 
> 
> I need to install Python 3.4 final urgently, because my IDE stopped supporting Python 3.4 beta2, and I need it urgently to work.
> 
> 
> 
> I downloaded it, but the MSI won't install. It didn't work on both of my computers (Windows 7 64bit).
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to have the MSI dump data to log, file attached.
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't help but notice this line in the log:
> 
> 
> 
>     The installer has encountered an unexpected error installing this package. This may indicate a problem with this package. The error code is 2726. The arguments are: HO_CHI~1|Ho_Chi_Minh
> 
> 
> 
> A Google search shows this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell. Was python.org hacked by communists?
> 
> 
> 
> Please, I need to get back to work and I can't. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ram.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68721

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 9:05 AM, cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> wrote:
> I downloaded it, but the MSI won't install. It didn't work on both of my computers (Windows 7 64bit).
>
> What the hell. Was python.org hacked by communists?

First question: Where did you download from? What file did you get?

(First and a halfth question: When you say "won't install", exactly
what do you mean? Error message? Hard drive exploded in a fiery
inferno? Your boss tapped you on the shoulder and said "Kill that
process"?)

Secondly, do you have a tool for checking the MD5 hash of a file?
Compare the file you have against the official checksum:

https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-340/

I'm slightly surprised the python.org installers have MD5s and not
something more cryptographically secure; there are GPG signatures, but
it takes a bit more fiddling to check those.

Finally, take the simple approach: Re-download the file, straight from
python.org, and see if it happens again.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68722

I did download from python.org. I checked the md5, it was incorrect, then I downloaded again by using a proxy in Austria. (Which hopefully the communists haven't be able to infiltrate? ;)

Now it worked! Woohoo!

I'm still curious about the bad installation file... And what Ho Chi Minh is doing in the Python MSI. (I'm guessing it's timezone-related, but it's still far-fetched, because why would an obscure time zone file appear in the MSI log?)

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:25:03 AM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 9:05 AM, cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I downloaded it, but the MSI won't install. It didn't work on both of my computers (Windows 7 64bit).
> 
> >
> 
> > What the hell. Was python.org hacked by communists?
> 
> 
> 
> First question: Where did you download from? What file did you get?
> 
> 
> 
> (First and a halfth question: When you say "won't install", exactly
> 
> what do you mean? Error message? Hard drive exploded in a fiery
> 
> inferno? Your boss tapped you on the shoulder and said "Kill that
> 
> process"?)
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, do you have a tool for checking the MD5 hash of a file?
> 
> Compare the file you have against the official checksum:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-340/
> 
> 
> 
> I'm slightly surprised the python.org installers have MD5s and not
> 
> something more cryptographically secure; there are GPG signatures, but
> 
> it takes a bit more fiddling to check those.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, take the simple approach: Re-download the file, straight from
> 
> python.org, and see if it happens again.
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68723

Here's the offending MSI, if anyone wants to investigate: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1927707/python-3.4.0.amd64.msi


On Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:34:06 AM UTC+2, cool-RR wrote:
> I did download from python.org. I checked the md5, it was incorrect, then I downloaded again by using a proxy in Austria. (Which hopefully the communists haven't be able to infiltrate? ;)
> 
> 
> 
> Now it worked! Woohoo!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still curious about the bad installation file... And what Ho Chi Minh is doing in the Python MSI. (I'm guessing it's timezone-related, but it's still far-fetched, because why would an obscure time zone file appear in the MSI log?)
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, March 22, 2014 12:25:03 AM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 9:05 AM, cool-RR <ram.rachum@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I downloaded it, but the MSI won't install. It didn't work on both of my computers (Windows 7 64bit).
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > What the hell. Was python.org hacked by communists?
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > First question: Where did you download from? What file did you get?
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > (First and a halfth question: When you say "won't install", exactly
> 
> > 
> 
> > what do you mean? Error message? Hard drive exploded in a fiery
> 
> > 
> 
> > inferno? Your boss tapped you on the shoulder and said "Kill that
> 
> > 
> 
> > process"?)
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Secondly, do you have a tool for checking the MD5 hash of a file?
> 
> > 
> 
> > Compare the file you have against the official checksum:
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-340/
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > I'm slightly surprised the python.org installers have MD5s and not
> 
> > 
> 
> > something more cryptographically secure; there are GPG signatures, but
> 
> > 
> 
> > it takes a bit more fiddling to check those.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Finally, take the simple approach: Re-download the file, straight from
> 
> > 
> 
> > python.org, and see if it happens again.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68725

On 21/03/2014 22:34, cool-RR wrote:

I'm pleased to see that you have answers.  In return would you either 
use the mailing list 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list or read and action 
this https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to prevent us 
seeing double line spacing and single line paragraphs, thanks.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68738

On 3/21/14 5:44 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> I'm pleased to see that you have answers. In return would you either use
> the mailing list https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list or
> read and action this https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to
> prevent us seeing double line spacing and single line paragraphs, thanks.

I perceive that this is your singular pet peeve, or, you were elected by 
the python community some time ago to police the line-end problem ?

I notice (since moving my stuff to Thunderbird two weeks back) the 
double spacing you keep squawking about, but I don't find it the big 
nuisance you're talking about; ok, so we have to scroll a bit further.

I am honestly convinced that this might even be a python problem.  More 
likely than not, gg is written in python, and this is the goofy line-end 
character problem we have to deal with when we read lines in python.

Why do we suck in the new-line character as though it were part of the 
line?  This is asinine behavior.  The new-line is a "file" delimiter 
character and NOT intended to be part of the line.

Thinking this through a bit I've noticed that a blank line comes back 
with a '\n'  which differentiates it from file end which comes back 
"without" the new-line.  So, it appears that python is using the 
new-line character (or lack there-of) to have meaning which the new=line 
in a unix file was never suppose to carry.

If python would just return EOF like every other language at file end, 
and a test line without '\n' tacked to the end of it, this little snag 
with gg would probably go away.  What say you?

Of course, that does not alleviate all of the rest of gg's short 
comings!   <sigh>

marcus

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68739

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/21/14 5:44 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>
>> I'm pleased to see that you have answers. In return would you either use
>> the mailing list https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list or
>> read and action this https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to
>> prevent us seeing double line spacing and single line paragraphs, thanks.
>
>
> I perceive that this is your singular pet peeve, or, you were elected by the
> python community some time ago to police the line-end problem ?

Communities maintain standards by policing them. If nobody cares
enough to post, the problem will remain. He happens to be one of the
most frequent commenters on this particular issue, but believe you me,
he is not the only one to wish it were solved; I used to speak up too,
but became tired of saying it (and of the blowback), and now I ignore
all double-spaced junk. If I can't figure out what's going on without
the context, I'll just move on to the next post.

> I notice (since moving my stuff to Thunderbird two weeks back) the double
> spacing you keep squawking about, but I don't find it the big nuisance
> you're talking about; ok, so we have to scroll a bit further.

It compounds. One reply makes for double spacing... two makes
quadruple, three means we have seven wasted lines between every pair
of real lines. That gets pretty annoying. And considering that most
people who reply without cleaning up the lines also keep the entire
quoted text (and usually top-post as well), this gets big fast.

> I am honestly convinced that this might even be a python problem.  More
> likely than not, gg is written in python, and this is the goofy line-end
> character problem we have to deal with when we read lines in python.

No idea why you should think this; it's more likely to be based on
HTML parsing (newline -> paragraph -> double newline), especially
since the original text is usually unwrapped.

> Why do we suck in the new-line character as though it were part of the line?
> This is asinine behavior.  The new-line is a "file" delimiter character and
> NOT intended to be part of the line.
>
> Thinking this through a bit I've noticed that a blank line comes back with a
> '\n'  which differentiates it from file end which comes back "without" the
> new-line.  So, it appears that python is using the new-line character (or
> lack there-of) to have meaning which the new=line in a unix file was never
> suppose to carry.
>
> If python would just return EOF like every other language at file end, and a
> test line without '\n' tacked to the end of it, this little snag with gg
> would probably go away.  What say you?

Personally, I think that iterating over the lines in a file (in the
most obvious way) should strip delimiters. There should be a
less-obvious way to iterate over the "lines complete with their line
ends", which can then be used to distinguish between the different
line endings (including the absence of one at the end of the file),
but most of the time you want to just treat a file as a series of
lines, and don't care about the distinctions. However, that ship has
sailed; it's way WAY too late to make any such change.

And changing it would not fix the Google Groups problem unless it also
broke a whole pile of other code out there.

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68740

On 3/21/14 11:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> It compounds. One reply makes for double spacing... two makes
> quadruple, three means we have seven wasted lines between every pair
> of real lines. That gets pretty annoying. And considering that most
> people who reply without cleaning up the lines also keep the entire
> quoted text (and usually top-post as well), this gets big fast.

    Yes, I can see that readily/  I get it, it just seems that fixing it 
at the source (gg) is the answer; because there will always be someone 
new to the list who is using gg because its part of their suite and 
because its convenient (I mean, that's why I tried to use it). I think 
we need to be beating up on the gg people so they get their stuff working.

> Personally, I think that iterating over the lines in a file (in the
> most obvious way) should strip delimiters.

    agreed.

> most of the time you want to just treat a file as a series of
> lines, and don't care about the distinctions. However, that ship has
> sailed; it's way WAY too late to make any such change.

    agreed again, on both counts.

> And changing it would not fix the Google Groups problem unless it also
> broke a whole pile of other code out there.

    No doubt.  Well, I don't mind dealing with it/  and frankly, I don't 
really think its a python problem anyway at the root. All files should 
have standard delimiters.  What I used to call flat-text files should 
have standard line-end delimiters, and standard file-end EOF markers. 
All OS's should comply with the standard... for instance, there should 
not be a windows x'0a' x'0d' line ending, and a unix  x'0d' line ending.

    Well, and now that I'm thinking about this again, since we have 
unicode, maybe we should have an entire set of standard "file" 
delimiters for flat-files.

    But the bottom line (pun intended) is that I just want to suck the 
lines in, and I only want the system to have to handle the delimiters; 
I'm not asking for any changes mind you (at this point) just thinking 
out-loud.

Cheers dude.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68741

On 3/21/14 11:30 PM, Mark H Harris wrote:
> All OS's should comply with the standard... for instance, there should
> not be a windows x'0a' x'0d' line ending, and a unix x'0d' line ending.


whoops...  I meant  unix  x'0a' line ending...    ;-)


'\n'

:-))

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68743

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com> wrote:
> All files should have standard delimiters.  What I used to call flat-text
> files should have standard line-end delimiters, and standard file-end EOF
> markers. All OS's should comply with the standard... for instance, there
> should not be a windows x'0a' x'0d' line ending, and a unix  x'0d' line
> ending.

(Side point: You have your 0d and your 0a backwards; the Unix line
ending is U+000A, and the Windows default is U+000D U+000A.)

How are you going to make people change? What are you going to make
them change to? Who controls this standard, and how do you convince
all OSes to comply with it?

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68747

On 3/21/14 11:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> (Side point: You have your 0d and your 0a backwards; the Unix line
> ending is U+000A, and the Windows default is U+000D U+000A.)

    Yeah, I know... smart apple.

> How are you going to make people change? What are you going to make
> them change to? Who controls this standard, and how do you convince
> all OSes to comply with it?

    Well, we're already doing this to some extent; baby steps.  Well, we 
have open document standards (evolving) and we have a really good sense 
for unicode (and python is being a genuine leader there) and the 
flat-file is just another open document (very simple no doubt), not 
different from a standards viewpoint than rft, odt, {whatever}; txt?

    My idea is that as we are morphing open document standards we need 
to keep the "flat-file" in mind too.  The ASCII ship has sailed too. 
Unicode is in, ASCII is out (for all intents and purposes) except at 
Microsoft---and its time to rethink what a "flat" unicode text file 
really is. That's all.

marcus

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68755

Le samedi 22 mars 2014 05:59:34 UTC+1, Mark H. Harris a écrit :
> On 3/21/14 11:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
> > (Side point: You have your 0d and your 0a backwards; the Unix line
> 
> > ending is U+000A, and the Windows default is U+000D U+000A.)
> 
> 
> 
>     Yeah, I know... smart apple.
> 
> 
> 
> > How are you going to make people change? What are you going to make
> 
> > them change to? Who controls this standard, and how do you convince
> 
> > all OSes to comply with it?
> 
> 
> 
>     Well, we're already doing this to some extent; baby steps.  Well, we 
> 
> have open document standards (evolving) and we have a really good sense 
> 
> for unicode (and python is being a genuine leader there) and the 
> 
> flat-file is just another open document (very simple no doubt), not 
> 
> different from a standards viewpoint than rft, odt, {whatever}; txt?
> 
> 
> 
>     My idea is that as we are morphing open document standards we need 
> 
> to keep the "flat-file" in mind too.  The ASCII ship has sailed too. 
> 
> Unicode is in, ASCII is out (for all intents and purposes) except at 
> 
> Microsoft---and its time to rethink what a "flat" unicode text file 
> 
> really is. That's all.
> 
> 

No offense. A good start would be to understand "unicode"
instead of bashing MS.

jmf

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68765

On 22/03/2014 08:54, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
> Le samedi 22 mars 2014 05:59:34 UTC+1, Mark H. Harris a écrit :
>> On 3/21/14 11:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>> (Side point: You have your 0d and your 0a backwards; the Unix line
>>
>>> ending is U+000A, and the Windows default is U+000D U+000A.)
>>
>>
>>
>>      Yeah, I know... smart apple.
>>
>>
>>
>>> How are you going to make people change? What are you going to make
>>
>>> them change to? Who controls this standard, and how do you convince
>>
>>> all OSes to comply with it?
>>
>>
>>
>>      Well, we're already doing this to some extent; baby steps.  Well, we
>>
>> have open document standards (evolving) and we have a really good sense
>>
>> for unicode (and python is being a genuine leader there) and the
>>
>> flat-file is just another open document (very simple no doubt), not
>>
>> different from a standards viewpoint than rft, odt, {whatever}; txt?
>>
>>
>>
>>      My idea is that as we are morphing open document standards we need
>>
>> to keep the "flat-file" in mind too.  The ASCII ship has sailed too.
>>
>> Unicode is in, ASCII is out (for all intents and purposes) except at
>>
>> Microsoft---and its time to rethink what a "flat" unicode text file
>>
>> really is. That's all.
>>
>>
>
> No offense. A good start would be to understand "unicode"
> instead of bashing MS.
>
> jmf
>

How apt given how this thread has moved :)

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68749

On 3/22/2014 12:30 AM, Mark H Harris wrote:
> On 3/21/14 11:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> It compounds. One reply makes for double spacing... two makes
>> quadruple, three means we have seven wasted lines between every pair
>> of real lines. That gets pretty annoying. And considering that most
>> people who reply without cleaning up the lines also keep the entire
>> quoted text (and usually top-post as well), this gets big fast.

Before Mark started asking people adjust to the foibles of gg, we used 
to get such posts. I refused to read them. I have not seen one lately, 
say maybe his nudging has had some positive effect.

>     Yes, I can see that readily/  I get it, it just seems that fixing it
> at the source (gg) is the answer;

I completely agree. However, Google seems immune to suggestions, 
including requests that it try to stop being a major source of spam posts.

 > because there will always be someone
> new to the list who is using gg because its part of their suite and
> because its convenient (I mean, that's why I tried to use it).

If I were in charge of the software used for this list, I would replace 
Mark with a custom addition to return mis-formated posts (more blank 
lines than not) with instructions on how to fix them. But I am not.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68758

On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 01:24:33 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 3/22/2014 12:30 AM, Mark H Harris wrote:
>> On 3/21/14 11:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> It compounds. One reply makes for double spacing... two makes
>>> quadruple, three means we have seven wasted lines between every pair
>>> of real lines. That gets pretty annoying. And considering that most
>>> people who reply without cleaning up the lines also keep the entire
>>> quoted text (and usually top-post as well), this gets big fast.
> 
> Before Mark started asking people adjust to the foibles of gg, we used
> to get such posts. I refused to read them. I have not seen one lately,

Luck you. I see them quite frequently.


> say maybe his nudging has had some positive effect.
> 
>>     Yes, I can see that readily/  I get it, it just seems that fixing
>>     it
>> at the source (gg) is the answer;
> 
> I completely agree. However, Google seems immune to suggestions,
> including requests that it try to stop being a major source of spam
> posts.

Remember, we are not Google's customers. We are Google's product. The 
customers are the advertisers.

[...]
> If I were in charge of the software used for this list, I would replace
> Mark with a custom addition to return mis-formated posts (more blank
> lines than not) with instructions on how to fix them. But I am not.

Wouldn't it be less obnoxious and more useful to pass the posts through a 
filter that deletes the annoying blank lines?



-- 
Steven D'Aprano
http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68759

On 3/22/2014 5:50 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 01:24:33 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

>> If I were in charge of the software used for this list, I would replace
>> Mark with a custom addition to return mis-formated posts (more blank
>> lines than not) with instructions on how to fix them. But I am not.
>
> Wouldn't it be less obnoxious and more useful to pass the posts through a
> filter that deletes the annoying blank lines?

I have thought of that too, and may have suggested it. It would be 
slightly harder as a decision would be required as to which to delete.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68751

On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
> If I were in charge of the software used for this list, I would replace Mark
> with a custom addition to return mis-formated posts (more blank lines than
> not) with instructions on how to fix them. But I am not.

I love how this makes it sound as if Mark is part of Mailman...

ChrisA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68781

On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 23:30:06 -0500, Mark H Harris <harrismh777@gmail.com>
declaimed the following:

>    Well, and now that I'm thinking about this again, since we have 
>unicode, maybe we should have an entire set of standard "file" 
>delimiters for flat-files.
>
>    But the bottom line (pun intended) is that I just want to suck the 
>lines in, and I only want the system to have to handle the delimiters; 

	What "system"... as I understand the UNIX/C stream concept, there are
no "system" delimiters -- it is up to the application program to determine
how to respond to special characters.

	Maybe you'd prefer VMS FORTRAN segmented records -- which encoded
start-of-record and end-of-record bits at the OS level, while writing
blocks of (as I recall -- been 15 years since I had to parse a FORTRAN text
file in a non-compatible language) no more than 256-bytes. A long text
record then would something like:
01lots of text
00carrying over to more blocks
00until finally getting to
10the end block.

	A short line would have both start and end markers
11a short line

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/6443/6443pro_021.html#subhead_segrec_type

implies unformatted (binary) files, but I'm fairly certain I've seen text
contents too (maybe written as unformatted).

	To get a "C-style" file one had to go out of their way to specify a
stream mode, what the line end character would be, and for formatted
output, often a "carriagecontrol" specification when opening the file (as I
recall that activated newline, linefeed, tab, and formfeed behaviors on
output files).
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#68764

On 22/03/2014 03:58, Mark H Harris wrote:
> On 3/21/14 5:44 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> I'm pleased to see that you have answers. In return would you either use
>> the mailing list https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list or
>> read and action this https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to
>> prevent us seeing double line spacing and single line paragraphs, thanks.
>
> I perceive that this is your singular pet peeve, or, you were elected by
> the python community some time ago to police the line-end problem ?
>

It's a pet peeve as:-

a) trying to read something that's the fourth level of reply or higher 
to the original gets to be almost impossible as it's all white space and 
no substance.

b) better tools exist

c) the work around is shown on the Python wiki, not on the crappy, bug 
ridden gg site itself.

Wow, it's like a sauna in here :)

I doubt that the Python community would elect me to do anything.  Anyhow 
I start my new job in the diplomatic corp next week.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.python

csiph-web