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generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)

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  generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-02-03 05:59 -0800
    Re: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-02-03 09:50 -0700
    Re: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug) Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2014-02-03 17:42 +0000
      Re: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-02-03 10:37 -0800
        Re: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-04 05:46 +1100
        Re: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug) Rotwang <sg552@hotmail.co.uk> - 2014-02-03 18:55 +0000
          Re: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-02-03 11:31 -0800
          [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-02-04 09:56 +1100
            Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-02-03 22:51 -0800
              Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-04 17:58 +1100
              Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) Jerry Hill <malaclypse2@gmail.com> - 2014-02-04 09:39 -0500
                Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-02-04 07:21 -0800
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-02-04 08:31 -0700
                    Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Jim Gibson <jimsgibson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-04 10:24 -0800
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-05 03:18 +1100
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-02-04 13:20 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2014-02-04 19:40 +0100
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> - 2014-02-04 19:19 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-02-04 18:00 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-02-04 18:18 -0500
                    Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-02-05 06:41 -0800
                      Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-02-05 10:23 -0500
                        Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-02-05 10:58 -0800
                      Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-05 15:45 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-02-04 18:24 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-02-04 18:28 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-05 10:35 +1100
                  Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-02-06 04:23 -0800
                    Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-02-06 05:27 -0800
                    Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug)) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-02-07 04:23 +1100
                    Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> - 2014-02-06 19:29 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-02-06 19:05 -0800
    Re: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug) andrea crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> - 2014-02-03 17:45 +0000

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#65479 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

Le mercredi 5 février 2014 00:18:35 UTC+1, Terry Reedy a écrit :
> On 2/4/2014 10:21 AM, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >> I was able to discover that link by opening the page, highlighting the
> 
> >> section header with my mouse, then clicking the pilcrow.  That gives
> 
> >> me the anchor link to that section header.
> 
> >
> 
> > Useless and really ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> Jim, when you say 'useless', please qualify as 'useless to me'. 
> 
> Otherwise, people may think that you mean 'useless to eveyone', and it 
> 
> is disrespectful to mislead people that way. I hope you are aware that 
> 
> your personal ideas of usefulness to yourself are quite different from 
> 
> other peoples' ideas of usefulness to themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> I now understand that you consider the FSR useless *to you* because you 
> 
> do not care about the bugginess of narrow builds or about the spacious 
> 
> of wide builds. You do care about uniformity of character size across 
> 
> all strings, and FSR lacks that. You are entitled to make that judgment 
> 
> for yourself. You are not entitled to sabotage others by projecting you 
> 
> personal judgments onto others. The FSR and pilcrow are definitely 
> 
> useful to other people as they judge personal usefulness for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> PS. I agree that the pilcrow appearing and disappearing is not pretty 
> 
> when I am not looking to use it. I happen to think that is it tolerable 
> 
> because it is sometimes useful.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Terry Jan Reedy


I do not contest the utility of such a feature.

I do not see the utility of such a feature, when
visiting the Python doc on line. That's all.
I lived years without knowing that one could
click on a "pilcrow"!

---

If you put the FSR on the table.
I think I have a very correct vision of what Unicode
should be and *is*. (*)
I belong to those who know that latin-1 is unusable for
more than ten European languages based on latin scripts.
Today, one can add German to these.
No offense, you are still stuck and living in
the ascii world. (The recent byte string discussion
was very informative on that subject).

Writing that the FSR does not suit my needs seems to me
a little bit exagerated. You should have more concerns
about something like "ReportLab" than about my (jmf) software.

(*) Luckily, that's already the case for the users using
serious tools.

jmf

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#65481 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

On 2/5/14 9:41 AM, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
> If you put the FSR on the table.
> I think I have a very correct vision of what Unicode
> should be and*is*. (*)
> I belong to those who know that latin-1 is unusable for
> more than ten European languages based on latin scripts.
> Today, one can add German to these.
> No offense, you are still stuck and living in
> the ascii world. (The recent byte string discussion
> was very informative on that subject).
>
> Writing that the FSR does not suit my needs seems to me
> a little bit exagerated. You should have more concerns
> about something like "ReportLab" than about my (jmf) software.
>
> (*) Luckily, that's already the case for the users using
> serious tools.

We've been over this too many times already, and we won't be discussing 
it with you again.

-- 
Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com

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#65488 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

Le mercredi 5 février 2014 16:23:01 UTC+1, Ned Batchelder a écrit :
> On 2/5/14 9:41 AM, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > If you put the FSR on the table.
> 
> > I think I have a very correct vision of what Unicode
> 
> > should be and*is*. (*)
> 
> > I belong to those who know that latin-1 is unusable for
> 
> > more than ten European languages based on latin scripts.
> 
> > Today, one can add German to these.
> 
> > No offense, you are still stuck and living in
> 
> > the ascii world. (The recent byte string discussion
> 
> > was very informative on that subject).
> 
> >
> 
> > Writing that the FSR does not suit my needs seems to me
> 
> > a little bit exagerated. You should have more concerns
> 
> > about something like "ReportLab" than about my (jmf) software.
> 
> >
> 
> > (*) Luckily, that's already the case for the users using
> 
> > serious tools.
> 
> 
> 
> We've been over this too many times already, and we won't be discussing 
> 
> it with you again.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com

I agree.
(but I was a little bit provocated)

jmf

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#65482 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

On 05/02/2014 14:41, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:

Please stop sending double line spaced messages, just follow the 
instructions here https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to 
prevent this happening, thanks.

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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#65458 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

On 2/4/2014 2:19 PM, andrea crotti wrote:
> 2014-02-04  <wxjmfauth@gmail.com>:
>> Useless and really ugly.

> I think this whole discussion is rather useless.

I agree that responding to Jim's generalized statements such as 
'useless' are either sincere personal opinions that are true with 
respect to himself, delusional statements that are false with respect to 
the community at large, or intentionally false trolls. I really cannot 
tell. In any case, I agree that response is pretty useless.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#65460 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

On 2/4/2014 6:24 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/4/2014 2:19 PM, andrea crotti wrote:
>> 2014-02-04  <wxjmfauth@gmail.com>:
>>> Useless and really ugly.
>
>> I think this whole discussion is rather useless.
>
> I agree that responding to Jim's generalized statements such as
> 'useless' are either sincere personal opinions that are true with
> respect to himself, delusional statements that are false with respect to
> the community at large, or intentionally false trolls. I really cannot
> tell. In any case, I agree that response is pretty useless.

Please ignore garbled post as I hit send in mid composition while revising.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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#65461 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> wrote:
> PS. I agree that the pilcrow appearing and disappearing is not pretty when I
> am not looking to use it. I happen to think that is it tolerable because it
> is sometimes useful.

Yes, it's not perfect. But neither are the obvious alternatives:

* Keeping the symbol there permanently looks weird, and also raises
the question of whether or not it should be copied to the clipboard if
you select a whole pile of content. (If it is, you get an ugly bit of
junk in your text, something that now (being unclickable) has no
meaning. If it isn't, why isn't it? It's clearly part of the text!)

* Making the whole heading clickable is a bit weird in terms of UI. It
makes this text a link to itself, where it looks like it could be a
link to somewhere else. I've seen other sites where headings are all
links back to their ToC entries (ie the top of the page, or close to),
which is also weird, and the fact that it could be either means that
people won't know they can click on the heading to get a link to that
section.

* Having nothing on the section itself does work, but it means that
finding a section link requires you to go back up to the top of the
page, figure out which Contents entry is the section you want, and
click on it. That's how I get section links from a MediaWiki site (eg
Wikipedia); yes, it's workable, but it would be nicer to have the link
down at the section I'm reading.

* Putting a fixed-position piece of text showing the current section
is way too intrusive. I've seen sites with that, and I'm sure it's
useful, but I'd really prefer something a lot more subtle.

All of the above are plausible, but none is perfect. So what do you
do? You go with something imperfect and cope with a few issues.

ChrisA

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#65532 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug))

On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:51:25 PM UTC+5:30, jmf wrote:

> Useless and really ugly.

Evidently one can do worse:

http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/installing.html#requirements

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#65535 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug))

Le jeudi 6 février 2014 13:23:03 UTC+1, Rustom Mody a écrit :
> On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:51:25 PM UTC+5:30, jmf wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Useless and really ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently one can do worse:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/installing.html#requirements

or http://cx-freeze.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html

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#65543 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN (was: generator slides review and Python doc (+/- text bug))

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:23 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:51:25 PM UTC+5:30, jmf wrote:
>
>> Useless and really ugly.
>
> Evidently one can do worse:
>
> http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/installing.html#requirements

Aside from using a little "chain link" icon rather than a
typographer's symbol, that looks exactly the same. How's it worse?

ChrisA

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#65553 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

On 2014-02-06 17:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:23 PM, Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:51:25 PM UTC+5:30, jmf wrote:
>>
>>> Useless and really ugly.
>>
>> Evidently one can do worse:
>>
>> http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/installing.html#requirements
>
> Aside from using a little "chain link" icon rather than a
> typographer's symbol, that looks exactly the same. How's it worse?

When I looked at it earlier today, I got a default "cannot find this glyph" box 
instead of the chain icon. I assumed that is what Rustom was referring to. It's 
working for me now.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco

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#65577 — Re: [OT] Usage of U+00B6 PILCROW SIGN

On Friday, February 7, 2014 12:59:19 AM UTC+5:30, Robert Kern wrote:

> When I looked at it earlier today, I got a default "cannot find this glyph" box 
> instead of the chain icon. I assumed that is what Rustom was referring to. 
> It's  working for me now.

Yes I was getting unicode number-boxes; which is now working

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#65351

2014-02-03  <wxjmfauth@gmail.com>:
> generator slides review and Python doc
>
>
> I do not know what tool is used to produce such
> slides.
>
> When the mouse is over a a text like a title (<H*> ... <\H*> ???)
> the text get transformed and a colored eol is appearing.
>
> Example with the slide #3:
>
> Even numbers
> becomes
> Even numbers§
>
> with a visible colored "§", 'SECTION SIGN'
>
>
> I noticed the same effect with the Python doc
> since ? (long time).
>
> Eg.
>
> The Python Tutorial
> appears as
> The Python Tutorial¶
>
> with a visible colored "¶", 'PILCROW SIGN',
> blueish in Python 3, red in Python 2.7.6.
>
>
> And in plenty third party Python docs using
> probaly the same tool as the official Python
> doc.
> The eol glyph may vary and may not be a "§" or a "¶".
>
> Windows, Firefox and others.
>
> The .chm files do not seem to be affected.
>
> jmf
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

I just saw now this mail you didn't reply to my email correctly..
Anyway I use this:
https://github.com/nyergler/hieroglyph
And I just use sphinx + RST to generate the slides, the raw source is here:
https://raw2.github.com/AndreaCrotti/generators/master/index.rst

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