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Testing if a global is defined in a module

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  Testing if a global is defined in a module Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> - 2011-07-04 10:11 -0800
    Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 12:40 -0700
      Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> - 2011-07-04 12:30 -0800
        Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 14:30 -0700
          Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> - 2011-07-04 13:59 -0800
        Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-05 09:13 +1000
          Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> - 2011-07-04 15:26 -0800
            Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-05 09:33 +1000
              Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> - 2011-07-04 16:01 -0800
              Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 10:08 +1000
                Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-05 14:11 +0000
                  Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-07-05 18:35 +0200
                    Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-07-06 03:36 +1000
                      Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 08:45 +1000
                      Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module "Waldek M." <wm@localhost.localdomain> - 2011-07-06 08:00 +0200
                        Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-07 14:18 +0000
                          Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Chris Rebert <clp2@rebertia.com> - 2011-07-07 17:36 -0700
                    Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-05 22:39 +0000
              Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> - 2011-07-04 18:01 -0800
              Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-07-04 22:28 -0600
              Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> - 2011-07-05 07:30 -0800
                Re: Testing if a global is defined in a module Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-07-05 15:43 +0000

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#8784 — Testing if a global is defined in a module

Using Python 2.6 on ubuntu 10.04.
inspect module :
I want to 'inspect' a module and get a list of all
functions, classes and global variables in that module.

## A module has been imported, and we call `getmembers'
members = inspect.getmembers(mod)

## While iterating thru `members', we test to see
## if an object is defined in the module.
for m in members:
  obj = m[1]
  res = inspect.getmodule(obj)
## It appears that getmodule returns None for
## all but functions and classes.

Example, for a module name `mvcInstall', when a class
name `Install' that is defined in the module
is passed as an argument to inspect.getmodule, the
values returned is something like
"<module 'mvcInstall' from
'/home/tim/prj/cgi/libraries/python/mvcInstall.py'>"
Likewise for functions defined in the module.

** But ** when global variables such as strings, booleans,
integers are passed as an argument to getmodule, the
value returned is `None'.

What else can I do here?
thanks
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com

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#8787

On Jul 4, 1:11 pm, Tim Johnson <t...@johnsons-web.com> wrote:
> Using Python 2.6 on ubuntu 10.04.
> inspect module :
> I want to 'inspect' a module and get a list of all
> functions, classes and global variables in that module.
>
> ## A module has been imported, and we call `getmembers'
> members = inspect.getmembers(mod)
>
> ## While iterating thru `members', we test to see
> ## if an object is defined in the module.
> for m in members:
>   obj = m[1]
>   res = inspect.getmodule(obj)
> ## It appears that getmodule returns None for
> ## all but functions and classes.
>
> Example, for a module name `mvcInstall', when a class
> name `Install' that is defined in the module
> is passed as an argument to inspect.getmodule, the
> values returned is something like
> "<module 'mvcInstall' from
> '/home/tim/prj/cgi/libraries/python/mvcInstall.py'>"
> Likewise for functions defined in the module.
>
> ** But ** when global variables such as strings, booleans,
> integers are passed as an argument to getmodule, the
> value returned is `None'.
>
> What else can I do here?
> thanks
> --
> Tim
> tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot comhttp://www.akwebsoft.com

Well if you follow the python style guide (and most accepted styles
for global notation) then it's a trial exercise. You don't even have
to import anything!!! :)

>>> GLOBAL_STR = 'str'
>>> GLOBAL_FLOAT = 1.33333
>>> GLoBaL_Bs = ''
>>> dir()
['GLOBAL_FLOAT', 'GLOBAL_STR', 'GLoBaL_Bs', '__builtins__', '__doc__',
'__name__', '__package__', 'item']
>>> for item in dir():
	if item.isupper():
		print 'Found Global!', item


Found Global! GLOBAL_FLOAT
Found Global! GLOBAL_STR

;-)

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#8792

* rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> [110704 12:00]:
> On Jul 4, 1:11 pm, Tim Johnson <t...@johnsons-web.com> wrote:
> 
> Well if you follow the python style guide (and most accepted styles
> for global notation) then it's a trial exercise. You don't even have
> to import anything!!! :)
> 
> >>> GLOBAL_STR = 'str'
> >>> GLOBAL_FLOAT = 1.33333
> >>> GLoBaL_Bs = ''
> >>> dir()
> ['GLOBAL_FLOAT', 'GLOBAL_STR', 'GLoBaL_Bs', '__builtins__', '__doc__',
> '__name__', '__package__', 'item']
> >>> for item in dir():
> 	if item.isupper():
> 		print 'Found Global!', item
  Thanks for the reply: *but*

  dir(<targetmodule>) will also show globals from other modules imported
  by the target module. So I would need a way to distinguish between
  those imported and those defined in <targetmodule>
  print(dir(targetmodule)) => 
   ['Install', 'TestAddresses', '__builtins__', '__doc__',
   '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', 'chmod', 'consoleMessage',
   'cp', 'debug', 'erh', 'exists', 'halt', 'is_list', 'load',
   'makePath', 'mkdir', 'process', 'sys', 'traceback', 'usingCgi'] 
   where 'TestAddresses' is a member of an imported module and
   'usingCgi' is the only data variable defined in <targetmodule>

  regards
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com

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#8794

On Jul 4, 3:30 pm, Tim Johnson <t...@johnsons-web.com> wrote:
>
>   Thanks for the reply: *but*
>   dir(<targetmodule>) will also show globals from other modules imported
>   by the target module. So I would need a way to distinguish between
>   those imported and those defined in <targetmodule>

Okay, then do some processing on the source. You can use regexps or
the module mentioned earlier by Chris.

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#8797

* rantingrick <rantingrick@gmail.com> [110704 13:47]:
> On Jul 4, 3:30 pm, Tim Johnson <t...@johnsons-web.com> wrote:
> >
> >   Thanks for the reply: *but*
> >   dir(<targetmodule>) will also show globals from other modules imported
> >   by the target module. So I would need a way to distinguish between
> >   those imported and those defined in <targetmodule>
> 
> Okay, then do some processing on the source. You can use regexps or
> the module mentioned earlier by Chris.
  I think I'm making this unnecessarily complicated. I had used
  something like:

  from spam import TestAddresses ## just for grins

  Which is something that I almost never do in practice.

  Also, you pointed out the UC naming convention, which I was
  unacquainted with, being self-employed, self-taught and a one-man
  crew who doesn't spend as much time as he should reading PEPs.

  I'm going to go for the predicate test as second argument to
  getmembers with something like:
def isdata(self,obj,name):
    """Check if an object is of a type that probably means it's data."""
    return (not (inspect.ismodule(obj) or inspect.isclass(obj) or
                inspect.isroutine(obj) or inspect.isframe(obj) or
                inspect.istraceback(obj) or inspect.iscode(obj)))
                and name.issupper()
## Untested code

thanks again
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com

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#8798

Tim Johnson wrote:

>   dir(<targetmodule>) will also show globals from other modules imported
>   by the target module. So I would need a way to distinguish between
>   those imported and those defined in <targetmodule>

Why would you want to do that? Importing *is* a definition in
<targetmodule>.

Consider these two code snippets:

#1
from math import pi

#2
import math
tau = 2*math.pi
del math


Why do you think it is necessary to distinguish pi from tau? Both names are
local to the current namespace.



>   print(dir(targetmodule)) =>
>    ['Install', 'TestAddresses', '__builtins__', '__doc__',
>    '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', 'chmod', 'consoleMessage',
>    'cp', 'debug', 'erh', 'exists', 'halt', 'is_list', 'load',
>    'makePath', 'mkdir', 'process', 'sys', 'traceback', 'usingCgi']
>    where 'TestAddresses' is a member of an imported module and

You are mistaken. TestAddresses is *not* a member of an imported module. It
is a member of the current module, which may or may not happen to point to
the same object as the other module as well.


>    'usingCgi' is the only data variable defined in <targetmodule>

It seems to me that your approach here is unnecessarily complex and fragile.
I don't know what problem you are trying to solve, but trying to solve it
by intraspecting differences that aren't differences is surely the wrong
way to do it.



-- 
Steven

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#8800

* Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> [110704 15:18]:
> 
> You are mistaken. TestAddresses is *not* a member of an imported module. It
> is a member of the current module, which may or may not happen to point to
> the same object as the other module as well.
 You are correct. I mispoke or misapplied. See my last post.
> 
> >    'usingCgi' is the only data variable defined in <targetmodule>
> 
> It seems to me that your approach here is unnecessarily complex and fragile.
> I don't know what problem you are trying to solve, but trying to solve it
> by intraspecting differences that aren't differences is surely the wrong
> way to do it.
  See my last post...
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com

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#8802

Tim Johnson wrote:

>> It seems to me that your approach here is unnecessarily complex and
>> fragile. I don't know what problem you are trying to solve, but trying to
>> solve it by intraspecting differences that aren't differences is surely
>> the wrong way to do it.
>   See my last post...


Yes, but what are you actually *trying to do*? "Detecting data members" is
not an end in itself. Why do you think you need to detect data members?


-- 
Steven

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#8803

* Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> [110704 15:48]:
> Tim Johnson wrote:
> 
> >> It seems to me that your approach here is unnecessarily complex and
> >> fragile. I don't know what problem you are trying to solve, but trying to
> >> solve it by intraspecting differences that aren't differences is surely
> >> the wrong way to do it.
> >   See my last post...
> 
> 
> Yes, but what are you actually *trying to do*? "Detecting data members" is
> not an end in itself. Why do you think you need to detect data members?

  Steven, I'm building a documentation system. I have my own MVC framework
  and the goal is to have a documentation module for each project.

  Thanks again for the clarifications. I always learn a lot from
  you.
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com

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#8805

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> wrote:
>  Steven, I'm building a documentation system. I have my own MVC framework
>  and the goal is to have a documentation module for each project.
>

Is there a reason for not using Doxygen / Autodoc / etc, or at least
something in the same style? They work from specially-formatted
comments in the source code, rather than the compiled module object.

ChrisA

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#8826

On 2011-07-05, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> wrote:

>>>Steven, I'm building a documentation system. I have my own MVC
>>>framework and the goal is to have a documentation module for each
>>>project.
>>
>
> Is there a reason for not using Doxygen / Autodoc / etc, or at least
> something in the same style? They work from specially-formatted
> comments in the source code, rather than the compiled module object.

Because those specially-formatted comments are wrong.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I have many CHARTS
                                  at               and DIAGRAMS..
                              gmail.com            

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#8846

Dnia Tue, 5 Jul 2011 14:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards napisał(a):
> Because those specially-formatted comments are wrong.

... because?
Not in sarcasm mode; just curious why you don't like them.

Br.
Waldek

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#8847

Waldek M. wrote:

> Dnia Tue, 5 Jul 2011 14:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards napisał(a):
>> Because those specially-formatted comments are wrong.
> 
> ... because?
> Not in sarcasm mode; just curious why you don't like them.

Because unless you are extremely disciplined, code and the comments
describing them get out of sync. Quote:

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. "
--Michael Foord paraphrases Christian Muirhead on python-dev, 2009-03-22




-- 
Steven

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#8870

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>
> Because unless you are extremely disciplined, code and the comments
> describing them get out of sync. Quote:
>
> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just
> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. "
> --Michael Foord paraphrases Christian Muirhead on python-dev, 2009-03-22

And yet, as I have found out by trying to embed V8 (Google's
Javascript engine), those little comments can (a) prove the difference
between a bug and a misfeature, and (b) be all the documentation there
is. Okay, it's not QUITE the latter, but most things are not
documented outside of the source, and I greatly appreciate those
little comments!

ChrisA

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#8903

Dnia Wed, 06 Jul 2011 03:36:24 +1000, Steven D'Aprano napisał(a):
> Because unless you are extremely disciplined, code and the comments
> describing them get out of sync. [...]
True, but that gets far worse with external docs.
Do you have in mind any better replacement?

Br.
Waldek

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#9032

On 2011-07-06, Waldek M. <wm@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> Dnia Wed, 06 Jul 2011 03:36:24 +1000, Steven D'Aprano napisa?(a):

>> Because unless you are extremely disciplined, code and the comments
>> describing them get out of sync. [...]

> True, but that gets far worse with external docs. Do you have in mind
> any better replacement?

You write code that's easy to read, and you provide the language with
introspection capabilities that allow you do do things like write a
program that will list the symbols exported by a module.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Now that I have my
                                  at               "APPLE", I comprehend COST
                              gmail.com            ACCOUNTING!!

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#9061

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:18 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2011-07-06, Waldek M. <wm@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>> Dnia Wed, 06 Jul 2011 03:36:24 +1000, Steven D'Aprano napisa?(a):
>
>>> Because unless you are extremely disciplined, code and the comments
>>> describing them get out of sync. [...]
>
>> True, but that gets far worse with external docs. Do you have in mind
>> any better replacement?
>
> You write code that's easy to read

Reminded me of this excellent presentation:

"Uncomment Your Code"
https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=ah82mvnssv5d_162dbgx78gw

Cheers,
Chris

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#8868

On 2011-07-05, Waldek M. <wm@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> Dnia Tue, 5 Jul 2011 14:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards napisa?(a):
>> Because those specially-formatted comments are wrong.
>
> ... because?

In my experience, they're wrong because somebody changes the code and
not the comments.

> Not in sarcasm mode; just curious why you don't like them.

There've been too many times when I couldn't trust them.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm totally DESPONDENT
                                  at               over the LIBYAN situation
                              gmail.com            and the price of CHICKEN
                                                   ...

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#8807

* Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> [110704 16:19]:
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> wrote:
> >  Steven, I'm building a documentation system. I have my own MVC framework
> >  and the goal is to have a documentation module for each project.
> >
> 
> Is there a reason for not using Doxygen / Autodoc / etc, or at least
> something in the same style? They work from specially-formatted
> comments in the source code, rather than the compiled module object.

  I want this as a component of my system. It will be bound to a
  relational data-structure-based 'core' that defines relationships
  between all files in the project.

  :) It's called *collateral*

  And yes, I have worked with comment-based systems, including my
  own, that worked with multi-language projects. 

  Best regards
-- 
Tim 
tim at johnsons-web dot com or akwebsoft dot com
http://www.akwebsoft.com

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#8811

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Tim Johnson <tim@johnsons-web.com> wrote:
>> Yes, but what are you actually *trying to do*? "Detecting data members" is
>> not an end in itself. Why do you think you need to detect data members?
>
>  Steven, I'm building a documentation system. I have my own MVC framework
>  and the goal is to have a documentation module for each project.

It sounds like what you really want is to detect the names *exported*
by the module, then.  Why not do it the same way Python does it?  If
the module defines an "__all__" attribute, then it is taken to be a
sequence of strings which are the exported names.  Otherwise, the
exported names are taken to be all the names in the module dict that
don't begin with an underscore.

Cheers,
Ian

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